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Keeping CoT Alive

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JayGriff
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Keeping CoT Alive

I apologize in advance if this question has been asked and answered already.

My question basically is what are the expectations for the game? As far as the amount of subscribers and commercial success. I only ask this because If it's you know, supposed to be a super huge game and everything (which i fully support) what if it doesn't do blockbuster numbers? What if its just Us, enough of us though but still us. Like not 100k new fans and such. Is that going to be a dealbreaker? Because for me, CoH shutting down came out of absolutely nowhere, I mean yeah the servers hadn't been nearly as active for years but which of us knew how much was riding on that? Shit crazy. I just want to know what to prepare myself for. Thanks!

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City of Tabbies (CoT) is a

City of Tabbies (CoT) is a labor of love from a talented and dedicated group of former City of Hairballs (CoH) players who are currently building the game as volunteers, although Missing Worlds Media is a full-incorporated corporation.

The expectations, for both players and development staff, is to breath life into this spiritual successor to CoH. This is one of three spiritual successors currently in development.

Although I have not been following the progress of the other two games, my heart is wholly invested in CoT, and I look forward to supporting it for the next decade (or longer)! I do not expect industry-changing tech to come from this game (tech being rather easy to come by), but I look forward to a vastly superior creative process. If the Devs will help me reignite the lighthearted feeling of playing my character which I felt in CoH, they will have given me a better game than the most graphically/tech-advanced game out there.

I am sorry if I rambled, but I truly believe that people cannot go wrong in supporting our Devs.

Just a cat from another star!
Kiyori Anoyui
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If I were the dev's I would

If I were the dev's I would be extremely cautious and always prepare to be underwhelmed. I think that when this game comes out everyone will love it but no one will no how it turns out. So building this up to be something that takes a lot of $$ to keep running would be a mistake. The game should start with a maintaining fee as low as possible, and once the numbers come in for a period of time and can be relied on, then the budget can be adjusted, I would hate to see the game finally come out and go because of something like that.

That is just my two cents, but the Dev's are experienced and know what they are doing so I have no fears!

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Geveo
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MWM are creating CoT for the

MWM are creating CoT for the long haul.

Evidence:
They are focused on creating robust systems and frameworks, developing lore, and making sure the nuts and bolts are secure, rather than focusing on flash and marketing in their videos. Work-in-progress demos are just that, they show us where they are in the process, rather than trying to build hype with smoke and mirrors.

I'm not going to try to dig up the post -- I can't even remember which thread it was in -- but at some point earlier this year, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken about the exact timeline, but I'm pretty sure Dr. Tyche said at their current burn rate, they have enough money on hand to last past their projected launch date. That's without subs, without an in-game store, and without yet even running the 2nd Kickstarter that people have been requesting for years.

They don't have big-dollar corporate backers breathing down their necks, looking for "return" on their investment. Their backers are players who want to play, not suits who want to make a fast buck.

Everything I've seen indicates that MWM are not only trying to build CoT to be fun and expandable, they're also building it to be sustainable. There are no guarantees in the MMO world, but everything I've seen has given me confidence that MWM are doing it right.

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

City of Tabbies (CoT) is a labor of love from a talented and dedicated group of former City of Hairballs (CoH) players who are currently building the game as volunteers, although Missing Worlds Media is a full-incorporated corporation.
The expectations, for both players and development staff, is to breath life into this spiritual successor to CoH. This is one of three spiritual successors currently in development.
Although I have not been following the progress of the other two games, my heart is wholly invested in CoT, and I look forward to supporting it for the next decade (or longer)! I do not expect industry-changing tech to come from this game (tech being rather easy to come by), but I look forward to a vastly superior creative process. If the Devs will help me reignite the lighthearted feeling of playing my character which I felt in CoH, they will have given me a better game than the most graphically/tech-advanced game out there.
I am sorry if I rambled, but I truly believe that people cannot go wrong in supporting our Devs.

(applause) Well said.

(insert pithy comment here)

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Thanks, Mr. Boots ... um ...

Thanks, Mr. Boots ... um ... Mr. Ether!

*curtsies*

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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

They don't have big-dollar corporate backers breathing down their necks, looking for "return" on their investment. Their backers are players who want to play, not suits who want to make a fast buck.

This, unfortunately, is a double edged sword. Those big backers usually have a distribution system of some sort. And their backing also comes with some decent advertising.

Personally I hope MWM can keep the corrupted money grab big backers out of CoT and strive to make a game for the players by the players.

Then we win.

Lifeless object alive.

MeSoSollyWan
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I feel pretty good overall

I feel pretty good overall but I do have a few concerns myself:

1. The game actually releasing.
This is the straight forward concern. The game actually has to get released to have any possible post-release problems.

2. The devs are players themselves.
The whole concept of "by the players, for the players" is very endearing, but when the game comes out and without an actual salary for a game developer (or sustain-er) what is to keep the devs in their dev hats? And not their player hats? After all, they made the game they wanted to play right? This comes down to self-control and respect for the project, I know. But I feel like there's a series of conversations that need to be had there. (And maybe they were already had!)
Should they remain at the pace they are now, or even ramp up dev time, I am worried about the devs putting so many hours into bug fixing, GMing, and rolling updates and then also wanting to actually play later. Though I do have a memory of Back Alley Brawler saying that even after 8+ hours of working on Co* sometimes he would go home and log into their internal test server to mess around for a couple more hours... so it's not impossible!

3. Marketing.
Every single product's best and worst friend is marketing. How will they market CoT past their Kickstarter crew and initial launch reviews? Or, will they? I know they have a marketing team (person?) so I am sure they have plans, and probably money set aside for ads, but still... Marketing is such an important thing to spread awareness of a product.

Anyway, with all the time and effort and set-backs MWM has had over the years, their perspectives have likely been challenged and changed significantly. A lot of Kickstarters have come and gone since they completed this campaign. A lot of "AAA" titles have been announced and canceled since then, too. Our devs have their sights and they are continually updating their own game. The next several months worth of content should be really eye opening for everyone. Starting to see all the different pieces compile into an actual city, actual game, actual super-powered world... That's when we will really see what kind of a groove we'll settle into for the hopeful beta next year.

P.S. I really, really hope the combat is Co* levels of fun.

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Well, I think the PaxWest

Well, I think the PaxWest talk will help keep the game(s) in the public mind.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Marketing a superhero MMO is

Marketing a superhero MMO is definitely a tricky beast! The main "trick" being to get the game in front of folks who have an interest and ability to play. CoH once put an ad in marvel comics and was disappointed with the results. While the comic book purchasers were likely to have an interest, comics still skew to the younger side which has FAR less ability (gaming PC, game, monthly sub) to play.

But CoT has a trick upcoming that CoH never did. The standalone costume creator! We all know what a minigame this alone is! If we can help MWM get this in front of eyeballs then a long future can be assured. In practice this will mean showing it to friends, family, and coworkers. But there may be one or two among us that can swing for the fences and get it into a chain store. Everyone has a part to play here and every new customer is a win.

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Long term if the numbers don

Long term if the numbers don't pan out and MWM is not able to support themselves or the servers, they had said they would release the server code or at the very least a private server system of some sort. Allowing players to log in and play their characters and make new ones and potentially carry on in a decentralized manner.

That was quite awhile ago and not something anyone is looking towards. Let optimism prevail! Hopefully, once the game launches there will be enough cash flow to have all the devs quit their jobs and work on the game as a paid developer with a business card and whatnot.

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MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

3. Marketing.
Every single product's best and worst friend is marketing. How will they market CoT past their Kickstarter crew and initial launch reviews? Or, will they? I know they have a marketing team (person?) so I am sure they have plans, and probably money set aside for ads, but still... Marketing is such an important thing to spread awareness of a product.

As much as I loved CoT (despite Posi suppressing my Flight in Pocket D *shakes forepaws at Posi*), one of the biggest things to purrrplex me was the low -- almost non-existent -- amount of marketing. Probably the biggest marketing tools were the comic books and whatever reviews appeared on gaming sites.

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Impulse King
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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

MeSoSollyWan wrote:
3. Marketing.
Every single product's best and worst friend is marketing. How will they market CoT past their Kickstarter crew and initial launch reviews? Or, will they? I know they have a marketing team (person?) so I am sure they have plans, and probably money set aside for ads, but still... Marketing is such an important thing to spread awareness of a product.
As much as I loved CoT (despite Posi suppressing my Flight in Pocket D *shakes forepaws at Posi*), one of the biggest things to purrrplex me was the low -- almost non-existent -- amount of marketing. Probably the biggest marketing tools were the comic books and whatever reviews appeared on gaming sites.

Superhero MMOs are still going to be a niche product until they aren't. And by nature that means difficulty in marketing. I've already said I think the CC is their best marketing tool, so the trick is to get THAT out there as best we can. If, for instance, MWM decides to put out CoT gift cards as CoH did (My suggestion. :) ), then they should put something to the effect of "Try the costume creator FOR FREE at .... as many places on those cards as reasonable.

Physical space is HARD to get in stores overall, but those cards are fairly easy thanks to their pay per scan nature. That's the kind of subtleties needed in marketing this game imho.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

Long term if the numbers don't pan out and MWM is not able to support themselves or the servers, they had said they would release the server code or at the very least a private server system of some sort. Allowing players to log in and play their characters and make new ones and potentially carry on in a decentralized manner.
That was quite awhile ago and not something anyone is looking towards. Let optimism prevail! Hopefully, once the game launches there will be enough cash flow to have all the devs quit their jobs and work on the game as a paid developer with a business card and whatnot.

Yep. This was one of the things that drew me to MWM and CoT way back when, the idea that they were building CoT first and foremost so that it would EXIST, not first and foremost so that it would make oodles of money.

That said, I hope it *does* make oodles of money, "oodles" meaning roughly "enough to keep CoT going and growing".

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*shakes a couple of paws full

*shakes a couple of paws full of Shiny Brass Nemmie Buttons*

*listens to mellifluous tone of clink-clinking*

*continues to keep positive thoughts in her little kitty noggin*

Just a cat from another star!
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This game (CoT) is going to

This game (CoT) is going to be difficult to market. The big draw will be the customization. The hard part will be explaining (or demonstrating) how each character can be a hero or villain or something in the middle.

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I remember there was a big

I remember there was a big deal when Big Bang Theory had a Statesman cutout or some other COH marketing in the background. I think marketing was something that NCsoft would have been responsible for, obviously they weren't terribly interested.

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Yeah, they had a lot of CoH

Yeah, they had a lot of CoH ads inside the "comicbook store" set, as well as one extra named Captain Sweatpants who wore a pair of grey sweatpants and a CoH/Statesman t-shirt.. They also mentioned the game in dialog at least once. I remember Leonard talking to Sheldon once saying something like "Sheldon, we're the good guys. In WoW we play alliance, in City of Heroes we're the heroes..."

Somebody in the writer's room had to be a fan of that game, I can only assume.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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My worry is that in this free

My worry is that in this free to play era, there is a difficult balance of being able to sell enough in the long term versus people thinking they are nickeled and dimed to death. I always see constant arguments of "I don't want to buy that" or "you expect me to unlock what" yet there are screams of "where is the new content"? I'm partially guilty of that in Marvel Heroes but I also feel dropping nearly $400 would guarantee me some long term play with minimal updates. Much to my surprise Gazillion were about to go under if not for the console release. Makes you wonder how few paying players there were especially when some claimed to pay up to $2000. My thought was sell auras or sell alternative travel powers since you can only do so much with costumes due to the agreement with Marvel. No one liked that idea and I got the aforementioned quotes.

I view it myopically because I have no other info but my thought was here I am as a paying customer versus the majority of players that wanted something for nothing and I'm trying to tell the devs how I will spend more money so I can help continue to keep the servers alive. The devs probably read some of the reactions(not just from my comment but other suggestions as well) and said hell no, we will chase off these [non-paying] customers...solution, work on console and leave PC in maintenance mode.

Whether I made sense, I doubt it but I was taught nothing is free and if I'm getting enjoyment out of something I should be willing to pay for the service so here's hoping MWM is able to find that balance to keep funds flowing and the servers alive in the long run. It's relatively easy to get that big influx in the beginning when everything is new but much harder to keep players paying after years of operation much like what happened to Marvel Heroes on the PC when the release of new heroes slowed.

I don't envy MWM having to think 3, 5, 10 years into the future and if a subscription only is enough to keep the game going but more power to them if they can pull it off.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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It's a tricky balance,

It's a tricky balance, generating revenue without leaving players feeling that they got less than their money's worth. Whatever you do, though, do not give players sticker shock, and do not bait-and-switch. That's the sort of thing Bad Reputations are made of. (See also: Eve Monoclegate, CO Freeform character slot prices, LOTRO paywalling High Elves behind Mordor's expensive special edition packages.)

Edit: Yes, I am anal-retentive enough to correct my spelling mistakes six hours after the fact.

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FYI it has already been

FYI it has already been confirmed by MWM that there will be no Lifetime Subs. So you don't have that to worry about.

Amerikatt
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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

FYI it has already been confirmed by MWM that there will be no Lifetime Subs. So you don't have that to worry about.

What a relief! I was NOT looking forward to shelling out for NINE lifetime subs!

*shudders*

Just a cat from another star!
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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Planet10 wrote:
FYI it has already been confirmed by MWM that there will be no Lifetime Subs. So you don't have that to worry about.
What a relief! I was NOT looking forward to shelling out for NINE lifetime subs!
*shudders*

But, if you did, it would help keep the game alive for all those nine lives.

Amerikatt
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That actually *does* make

That actually *does* make sense, Brandy!

*ponders*

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SisterSilicon wrote:
SisterSilicon wrote:

It's a tricky balance, generating revenue without leaving players feeling that they got less than their money's worth. Whatever you do, though, do not give players sticker shock, and do not bait-and-switch. That's the sort of thing Bad Reputations are made of. (See also: Eve Monoclegate, CO Freeform character slot prices, LOTRO paywalling High Elves behind Mordor's expensive special edition packages.)
Edit: Yes, I am anal-retentive enough to correct my spelling mistakes six hours after the fact.

*cough*Assassins Creed $800 box*cough*

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Amerikatt
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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

*cough*Assassins Creed $800 box*cough*

*calculates the number of Fish Stix w/Boysenberry Sauce that that would buy!*

*shrieks*

*faints*

*dreams of Mr. Boots*

*purrs loudly and proudly*

*dreams of Mr. Boots ... with Kitty Softpaws*

*shrieks*

*astrally projects to England in search of ... Birminghamsters!*

*lets out a heavy sigh*

*somewhere, a drum goes ka-ching!*

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Impulse King wrote:
Impulse King wrote:

If we can help MWM get this in front of eyeballs then a long future can be assured. In practice this will mean showing it to friends, family, and coworkers. But there may be one or two among us that can swing for the fences and get it into a chain store. Everyone has a part to play here and every new customer is a win.

Not sure what you mean by "get it into a chain store"- last I heard MWM is not going to have any kind of physical release - digital only.

As for getting the game in front of eyeballs - I agree, and the youtube/streaming community will be key for this. Sites like Massively Overpowered or MMO.com are on the hunt for MMO news would certainly take the game for a spin - maybe even create a series out of it - just for news content. There are some who would review it simply due to the story behind the game ("spiritual successor" developed by fans of a killed title). There are also independent youtubers and streamers that were fans of the game who would probably want to try it out. So if we could get some of the bigger youtubers and game news sites to take a look (even via sponsored videos) that could go a long way to reaching eyeballs.

Lin Chiao Feng
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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Planet10 wrote:
FYI it has already been confirmed by MWM that there will be no Lifetime Subs. So you don't have that to worry about.
What a relief! I was NOT looking forward to shelling out for NINE lifetime subs!
*shudders*

Yeah, the bulk discount wouldn't kick in until you bought ten.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Amerikatt wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
FYI it has already been confirmed by MWM that there will be no Lifetime Subs. So you don't have that to worry about.
What a relief! I was NOT looking forward to shelling out for NINE lifetime subs!
*shudders*
Yeah, the bulk discount wouldn't kick in until you bought ten.

What rotten luck. Um ... I mean ... um ... that is to say ...!

*quits while she's behind*

Just a cat from another star!
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from what I understand, the

from what I understand, the devs of this game understand that the myth of the great WoW breaker is just that, a myth. These people are out to make a small business, because they liked the game that inspired it, and they where sad to see it go because of some dumb political garbage, and wanted to make something like it. I mean yeah sure one of their motivations is to get paid, but that has more to do with being able to do this as a job more than because of greed. They know that it won't make enough money beyond supporting themselves and the game, and they don't really care.