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Just realized something about CoX targeting

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TheInternetJanitor
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Just realized something about CoX targeting

I know there have been discussions about targeting options in CoT in the past.

It just struck me after actually getting back into CoX that they already had some level of action/smart targeting. If you mash a power without an enemy selected, it'll target the one you're looking at.

I'm not sure how it picks, if it selects the target nearest the cursor or nearest to the player or what. But it is there.

I admit this might just be news to me but I didn't remember it working this way.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:

You could use the keybind commands to change how the default targeting worked in CoH. You could make powers "always target the closest target" or "always target the furthest possible target" as possible examples. You could even filter out specific 'types' of targets (like friend or foe) for people casting buffs/debuffs.

There was a huge amount of flexibility allowed if you ever got really into it.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Cinnder
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It really was brilliant. I

It really was brilliant. I loved the fact that as long as you could see an enemy on the screen you could target it, combined with the way the game would automatically turn your character to face the target. For me, still no other MMO compares when it comes to combat.

Spurn all ye kindle.

DesViper
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I hope there's an option to

I hope there's an option to declutter the UI -- or just have a less cluttered UI -- somewhat, e.g. remove the names from above enemies heads.


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Auto-follow was so useful!

Auto-follow was so useful!

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

I hope there's an option to declutter the UI -- or just have a less cluttered UI -- somewhat, e.g. remove the names from above enemies heads.

I thought there was a way to do that kind of thing in CoH. I think I had it set up where the only thing I would see above other MOB's heads was their HP bar unless I specifically moused over them. When I moused over them I would see all of their name/title info. It was handy because it served to "declutter the UI" while still letting me know how healthy a MOB was.

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avelworldcreator
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There was such a feature in

There was such a feature in CoX. It was in your settings. I played with it a few times.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

It really [is] brilliant.

Fixed that for you ;P.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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One area CoT can improve on

One area CoT can improve on is letting you target the various levels of foes such as picking the boss, lieutenant or minion no matter the group you face. As it stands now in CoH, the best you can do is create a list of unique names to target one of the bosses, for instance and that list will run into a character limit. in some recent groups I wanted to target the boss since everyone else was melting faces faster than my ping or animation times allowed so I was wasting endurance and attacks. Re-reviewing how to target foes, I found I couldn't just target a generic type such as Boss.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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To do that we would also have

To do that we would also have to create multiple targeting rules since groups can have multiple pawns of the same rank. I’m not saying yes or no to this but something we will have to discuss.


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Cinnder
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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

It really [is] brilliant.

Fixed that for you ;P.

Heh -- I'm not referring to the old game in present tense until there's an official version that isn't under constant risk of C&D. But I get what you mean.

Spurn all ye kindle.

TheInternetJanitor
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My mind was just blown all

My mind was just blown all over again. CoX *did* have full action targeting....for at least one ability. The main heal in the nature support set, instead of being the common pbaoe type of heal, is a cone effect.

A cone effect without a target, that targets completely off the player's facing and aim.

I don't know if this is something that was put in later in the game's life but man, after playing with that I wish it had been retroactively applied to a lot of other cone effects. It makes it sooooo much easier to use instead of trying to target the one guy that you want to be in the middle of your desired area, dancing around, hoping they don't move too much...

Instead you just say "I want this here" and bam, there it is.

I think the only way it could be better is if it gave a translucent overlay of the area the ability would hit as you readied it before you fired it off similar to newer games like SMITE. The same could be true of any area effect though.

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TheInternetJanitor wrote:My
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

My mind was just blown all over again. CoX *did* have full action targeting....for at least one ability. The main heal in the nature support set, instead of being the common pbaoe type of heal, is a cone effect.

There were a few other examples of "cone" based powers in CoH. Sands of Mu was one of the more notable ones that was in the game for years. The Dark Blast powerset had a couple of ranged cone based powers and a few other powersets had them as well. So while they were never common there were always cone based powers in the game.

As FYI that Natural Affinity cone based heal power you're talking about was only added to CoH a few months before the game was shut down.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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To be fair, Targeted AoE

To be fair, Targeted AoE attacks worked like that ('I want it here') as well. Rain of Fire, for example.

As far as I'm concerned, letting us choose which method we prefer for cone attacks would be the best solution, since I like being able to target one mob, run to the side of the group, fire off the cone attack, and watch as my character turns and blasts them. For any NMTAoEC (Non-Mob-Targeted AoE Cone) attacks, though, I agree that an overlay (similar to that for the circular Targeted AoEs) would be very helpful.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

My mind was just blown all over again. CoX *did* have full action targeting....for at least one ability. The main heal in the nature support set, instead of being the common pbaoe type of heal, is a cone effect.

There were a few other examples of "cone" based powers in CoH. Sands of Mu was one of the more notable ones that was in the game for years. The Dark Blast powerset had a couple of ranged cone based powers and a few other powersets had them as well. So while they were never common there were always cone based powers in the game.

As FYI that Natural Affinity cone based heal power you're talking about was only added to CoH a few months before the game was shut down.

But the problem with most cone abilities (which TIJ was referencing) is that you still have to tab-target an enemy and then the cone is centered on that enemy. There is no free aim blasting out in a cone. So let’s say two enemies are spaced in such a way that you can hit both if you aim in between them, on the edges of the cone, you can’t do that. It’s awkward.

Natural Affinity apparently doesn’t have that limitation. It blasts in whatever direction you’re facing so it’s closer to FPS style aiming.

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I kinda like the challenge of

I kinda like the challenge of hitting as many fools in the cone as possible.


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While there are uses for

While there are uses for powers like this, frankly, 99% of the time I find them too aggravating to use properly in gameplay. Let's keep in mind that this is a 3d ENVIRONMENT, and most engines, for lack of a more polite term, only fake it. Even STO's space combat is this way, with "fire in whatever direction you're facing" attacks launching in your horizontal plane, no vertical angles allowed.

In general, I am all for more wireframe displays for AoE attacks, though for bandwidth and clutter reasons they should be limited to the player's display only. Except for Giant Monster and Final Boss super attacks. Those should be shown to the battlefield at large. (All three Cryptic games do this well)

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Dunning-Kreiger here, why not

Dunning-Kreiger here, why not a vertical and horizontal set of rays to simulate 3D?


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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Lothic wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

My mind was just blown all over again. CoX *did* have full action targeting....for at least one ability. The main heal in the nature support set, instead of being the common pbaoe type of heal, is a cone effect.

There were a few other examples of "cone" based powers in CoH. Sands of Mu was one of the more notable ones that was in the game for years. The Dark Blast powerset had a couple of ranged cone based powers and a few other powersets had them as well. So while they were never common there were always cone based powers in the game.

As FYI that Natural Affinity cone based heal power you're talking about was only added to CoH a few months before the game was shut down.

But the problem with most cone abilities (which TIJ was referencing) is that you still have to tab-target an enemy and then the cone is centered on that enemy. There is no free aim blasting out in a cone. So let’s say two enemies are spaced in such a way that you can hit both if you aim in between them, on the edges of the cone, you can’t do that. It’s awkward.

Natural Affinity apparently doesn’t have that limitation. It blasts in whatever direction you’re facing so it’s closer to FPS style aiming.

I wasn't aware that there were different "types" of cone powers in CoH. If the way that Natural Affinity heal power worked was fundamentally different from the way all other cone based powers worked in the game then that would have been a relatively huge deal that weirdly no one mentioned. I would have assumed that Paragon Studios would have talked about that new "feature" more directly in the patch notes or during the Issue 23 beta.

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. I'm just amazed that Paragon Studios managed to slip in an entirely new power mechanic (a "targetless" cone) in the last few months of the game without openly talking about it.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Dunning-Kreiger here, why not a vertical and horizontal set of rays to simulate 3D?

Something like that might be doable but it could A) take too much time for the game to graphically generate those three dimensional areas and display them which could add additional lag you might not want and B) might take up too much of your screen and be more of a visual annoyance than a benefit. Obviously something like that would have to be beta-tested to see if it was more trouble than it was worth.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I think it depends on the

I think it depends on the power:

Energy push, horizontal and vertical sets of rays.

Flamethower, narrow set of rays, though maybe that's thin enough to just be a line.

Hook kick, thin enough to be a horizontal ray.

Shotgun blast, should be perpendicular rays.


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Atama wrote:
Lothic wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

My mind was just blown all over again. CoX *did* have full action targeting....for at least one ability. The main heal in the nature support set, instead of being the common pbaoe type of heal, is a cone effect.

There were a few other examples of "cone" based powers in CoH. Sands of Mu was one of the more notable ones that was in the game for years. The Dark Blast powerset had a couple of ranged cone based powers and a few other powersets had them as well. So while they were never common there were always cone based powers in the game.

As FYI that Natural Affinity cone based heal power you're talking about was only added to CoH a few months before the game was shut down.

But the problem with most cone abilities (which TIJ was referencing) is that you still have to tab-target an enemy and then the cone is centered on that enemy. There is no free aim blasting out in a cone. So let’s say two enemies are spaced in such a way that you can hit both if you aim in between them, on the edges of the cone, you can’t do that. It’s awkward.

Natural Affinity apparently doesn’t have that limitation. It blasts in whatever direction you’re facing so it’s closer to FPS style aiming.

I wasn't aware that there were different "types" of cone powers in CoH. If the way that Natural Affinity heal power worked was fundamentally different from the way all other cone based powers worked in the game then that would have been a relatively huge deal that weirdly no one mentioned. I would have assumed that Paragon Studios would have talked about that new "feature" more directly in the patch notes or during the Issue 23 beta.

I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong. I'm just amazed that Paragon Studios managed to slip in an entirely new power mechanic (a "targetless" cone) in the last few months of the game without openly talking about it.

Well I’ll put it this way, the cone abilities I’ve used require a target and are focused around it. The ones I’ve used are:

Frost Breath
Fire Breath
Jacobs Ladder

All of those center on an enemy and go around it. I’ve never tried Natural Affinity so I also have to take TIJ’s word for it.

Maybe I’ll make a nature character and test it myself.

Lothic
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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

Well I’ll put it this way, the cone abilities I’ve used require a target and are focused around it. The ones I’ve used are:

Frost Breath
Fire Breath
Jacobs Ladder

All of those center on an enemy and go around it. I’ve never tried Natural Affinity so I also have to take TIJ’s word for it.

Maybe I’ll make a nature character and test it myself.

They might have decided to let it work in that relatively unique non-targeted way because it's a non-offensive "heal" power. Just a possibility...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012