It would be cool to have an all guns team.

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Cyclops
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It would be cool to have an all guns team.

a whole team made up with guys with guns. no ray guns but the good old fashioned bang bang type.
Dual pistols,
machine guns,
Commanders summoning mercs, gangers, anyone with guns.

just imagine a team event where we all cleaned the streets of Phoenix Plaza, 20-50 guys all shooting at once - the sound would be thunderous! The Rooks won't know what hit them.

I'm just not sure what to call the team.

Deathwatch101
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You don't need to go loud to

You don't need to go loud to be proud, what about sub-sonic round sub-machine guns.... the enemy won't know what hit them.

Cyclops
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loud and proud scares the

loud and proud scares the pants off of newbies that hear the sounds of a war over yonder.

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I think that an all-munitions

I think that an all-munitions group would be a bit distracting to other players. With the exception of law-enforcement officers and military personnel, I do not find the idea of gunslinging to be very heroic -- especially not an entire battalion of street sweepers. Remember the motto of the Texas Rangers: "One riot, one Ranger"!

No Punisher-types in *MY* city!

*gets ready to apply The Long Paw of the Law judiciously to certain bummys!*

Just a cat from another star!
Cyclops
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I think it would be a blast.

I think it would be a blast. pun intended.

My old Mastermind in COH had a gang with guns. and he could summon "Gang Warfare" 10 MORE gangers with guns shooting everything in sight.
Counting my MM it was 15 people all shooting at once. the Boss would agro on the 10 and me and the boys would focus on the boss with impunity.

LOVED it. seriously don't knock it until you've tried it.

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I prefer Mind Control.

I prefer Mind Control. Everyone falls asleep, or they go nuts and beat each other unconscious. Then the clean-up crew comes in to deal with them.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I prefer Mind Control. Everyone falls asleep, or they go nuts and beat each other unconscious. Then the clean-up crew comes in to deal with them.

I miss Mass Comedy.

The first time I got a Mind Controller to Level 32 I went to (then foggy) Dark Astoria and tested using it on packs of Banished Pantheon to see just how effective it was. I think I spent the next couple of hours rolling on the floor laughing after the power recharged so I could click it again on another spawn group to enjoy the hilarious chaos that ensued.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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My CoH group had a team of

My CoH group had a team of maximum-height female Corruptors that were all Assault Rifle, and color-coded by secondary.

The GunBunnies!

________
This looks like a job for SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!!

Composition Team

Deathwatch101
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SpaceMoose wrote:
SpaceMoose wrote:

My CoH group had a team of maximum-height female Corruptors that were all Assault Rifle, and color-coded by secondary.
The GunBunnies!

After that you need someone to shout sex appeal isn't body armour :P

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Why not call it "The

Why not call it "The Gunslingers"?

BiotopeZ
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When I hear "gunslingers" I

When I hear "gunslingers" I imagine a bunch of guys misunderstanding how guns work and throwing them at the enemy.

I know it's the appropriate term for a quick-draw type, but it always sounded wrong.

If I made an all-guns team it'd be mandatory for everyone to be obese and have no travel power. I mean, if you ONLY use guns, no melee, and you show up as a squad and shoot everything immediately, and you operate in one city where you can drive to your location and never have to walk, then you're not getting exercise. So... I'd call them "The Big Guns" Or... run the words together and call them "The Bigguns!" (sounds like biggin, as in "those folks're some biggins!")

I agree with Amerikatt, though, that an all-guns team doesn't automatically seem heroic. How many of those gang members have kids or have family elsewhere to support and have no other option, or were roped in at a young age and would be killed if they left, or were forcibly addicted to something only the gang provides? You can pretty much bet the one in charge is evil mcbaddypants, but what about the rest? Pretty much the only way an all-guns team is heroic is if A) they have both lethal AND non-lethal ammo (rubber bullets or some fictional thing), or B) they all have such super-human accuracy that they can accurately perform crippling shots that don't kill. Luckily, both are eminently possible in comics.

For fictional ammo example, AoS has something called an "I.C.E.R. round" that looks just like a bullet firing, but when it hits skin, the projectile "splashes" and infects them with a thing that paralyzes them instantly. It's like a tranq if a tranq could get through layering, fired with the same speed/accuracy as a bullet, and was as fast-acting as a bullet. An all-guns team with the CoT equivalent of I.C.E.R. rounds, in addition to their lethal rounds, could be heroic. As for why you'd need lethal rounds if something like I.C.E.R. exists, well, in AoS they often end up shooting at something that I.C.E.R. doesn't work on (alien, android, etc) so they need old fashion "rips a hole through it" rounds too.

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I have an Alt who's a

I have an Alt who's a gunslinger. Very Punisher type with a touch of Batman, Red Hood I guess would be more like how I played him. CoH I didn't take any travel powers and secondary was devices. I went and tried to get every temp power I could find!

*Looks over at Amerikatt then flashes the red laser pointer about*

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BiotopeZ wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

When I hear "gunslingers" I imagine a bunch of guys misunderstanding how guns work and throwing them at the enemy.

"We fire the WHOLE BULLET! That's 65% more bullet per bullet."
- Cave Johnson


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BiotopeZ wrote:
BiotopeZ wrote:

When I hear "gunslingers" I imagine a bunch of guys misunderstanding how guns work and throwing them at the enemy.

I know it's the appropriate term for a quick-draw type, but it always sounded wrong.

If I made an all-guns team it'd be mandatory for everyone to be obese and have no travel power. I mean, if you ONLY use guns, no melee, and you show up as a squad and shoot everything immediately, and you operate in one city where you can drive to your location and never have to walk, then you're not getting exercise. So... I'd call them "The Big Guns" Or... run the words together and call them "The Bigguns!" (sounds like biggin, as in "those folks're some biggins!")

I agree with Amerikatt, though, that an all-guns team doesn't automatically seem heroic. How many of those gang members have kids or have family elsewhere to support and have no other option, or were roped in at a young age and would be killed if they left, or were forcibly addicted to something only the gang provides? You can pretty much bet the one in charge is evil mcbaddypants, but what about the rest? Pretty much the only way an all-guns team is heroic is if A) they have both lethal AND non-lethal ammo (rubber bullets or some fictional thing), or B) they all have such super-human accuracy that they can accurately perform crippling shots that don't kill. Luckily, both are eminently possible in comics.

For fictional ammo example, AoS has something called an "I.C.E.R. round" that looks just like a bullet firing, but when it hits skin, the projectile "splashes" and infects them with a thing that paralyzes them instantly. It's like a tranq if a tranq could get through layering, fired with the same speed/accuracy as a bullet, and was as fast-acting as a bullet. An all-guns team with the CoT equivalent of I.C.E.R. rounds, in addition to their lethal rounds, could be heroic. As for why you'd need lethal rounds if something like I.C.E.R. exists, well, in AoS they often end up shooting at something that I.C.E.R. doesn't work on (alien, android, etc) so they need old fashion "rips a hole through it" rounds too.

Part of the problem with that, is CoH didn't give many options to combine martial arts with their weapon use.

One could easily say "Oh, I know martial arts too." in an RP sense and many did.

Sadly, it's beginning to look like CoT is going to fall into the same crap trap CoH did in that regard, unless they have something akin to Spines set in CoT, which could easily have based for Gun + Martial Arts set in a pick your own animation and props setting.

CO now, made it work.

Russian Catgirl Telepathic Super Spy with Gun and Martial Arts Skills, Telekinetic (used guns as focus of TK) Shapeshifter Super Spy, Time Wielding (admittedly this part gets changed to and back often enough when I try out other ideas >_>) Gunslinging Martial Artist Living Weapon of War, and a sword and gun totting vigilante turned vampire!

Looks like the making of a superhero comic to me :) Of course, 3 out of 4 of those gun users were government super projects. CO allowed these type of concepts much more easily. Could easily say rubber bullet/bean bag rounds and regular bullets if it wasn't the TKer and just plain accurate shooting and could easily RP the guns as more situation use when one is up against street bangers versus alien invaders/robots/what have you.

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That does look like it could

That does look like it could be one of those underground team comics somewhere. Dark Horse, maybe. I could see Hellboy running into them.

And that brings to mind another way an all-guns team could be heroic: if they were undead slayers or whatnot.

Hoard of zombies + really good at punching = one more zombie. Hoard of zombies + guns = a pile of ex-zombies.

Unfortunately, my main guns guy is going to be villain-side.

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Could always grab a melee

Could always grab a melee tertiary power pool. Then you can gun as your main and melee when folks get close.

Or grab a ranged tertiary and be melee first then ranged.

Or perhaps you'd be able to skin massive melee that way.

Or if any melee sets have a ranged attack built in (didn't CoH super strength have a rock throw?) Then you might be able to skin that as gun fun.

Then there's also waiting for an assault set then you could probably have that be martial arts and guns, or some such.

Seems like a more wait and see than anything set in stone.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Also, with the talk of "Oh no

Also, with the talk of "Oh no guns!" Let's remember all the stabbing and slicing weapons. A gun is bad because it could kill a street thug? What do you think that sword or knives do? They're not generally, "Let's go disable some thugs!" type of weapon. :p

One could say "Well, I use the dull side." to which one would wonder why they use it at all. :p

Tertiary could be good, but only if they allow you to replace an attack in your attack chain with a perma use range attack (which means that range attack is only useful in melee range outside of a target pull or low damage running away). Basically it needs to be useful in the meta and not just in the concept.

Same for melee tertiary for a blaster. If it's only useful for concept, less people will use it.

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Yeah, hopefully they'll be

Yeah, hopefully they'll be useful. Likely any ranged character will probably want to pick up at least a melee knock back power.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Im planning a more straight

Im planning a more straight soldier for mine, while he will use some movement. It would in a realistic sense be easier to hit a target while stationary. Though obviously with super's gunfu makes a little more sense.

Im planning the idea of my character using sub-sonic ammunition to explain why enemies don't necessarily get dropped from one hit. Though we are yet to know the true damage of rangers.

EDIT: Brand X while i'll say that art is quite stunning. Latex ain't body armour ;P

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Neither is spandex. Latex

Neither is spandex. Latex just looks better :)

Good thing she's got a healing factor ;)

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Healing factor or not unless

Healing factor or not unless they have some sort of heightened pain tolerance to go with it getting shot and stuff would hurt like heck!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Healing factor or not unless they have some sort of heightened pain tolerance to go with it getting shot and stuff would hurt like heck!

Depends on the Tech levels. Could say there are some nanites based healing going on. Stempaks in medkits like in Fallout. Most "damage" is bruising and other achs thanks to state of the art armor so heal faster than open wounds.

This does bring up the question if this group going to go full steam then are they all Human? Or can aliens, mutants (healing and other powers), Cyborgs, Androids or anything else join?

From what I took the only limit is the means of attack is gun based don't even need to be the same style of guns. Rifle or Pistols or blaster all are technically guns. Then Travel Powers was talked about, so is there a set limit to secondary powers and travel powers? Is this going to be a Human only group?

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Mew mew, not pew-pew!

Mew mew, not pew-pew!

Just a cat from another star!
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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Also, with the talk of "Oh no guns!" Let's remember all the stabbing and slicing weapons. A gun is bad because it could kill a street thug? What do you think that sword or knives do? They're not generally, "Let's go disable some thugs!" type of weapon. :p

Guns don't kill people!

SWORDS KILL PEOPLE!!!


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Guns don't kill people!

SWORDS KILL PEOPLE!!!

Only on the .jp server.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Mew mew, not pew-pew!

This from the cat with an orbital space cannon!

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Mew mew, not pew-pew!

This from the cat with an orbital space cannon!

I particularly like the minty after-taste of Amerikatt's Illudium Q-36 Space Cannon. However, I hear it's not for everyone.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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You guys just made me think

You guys just made me think something. It hurts when I do that.

With aesthetic decoupling, what is the difference between ranged and melee abilities? Seriously.

What is stopping a ranged character from looking like and playing like a melee character?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Well, a range character will

Well, a range character will have the ability to try to stay at range.

Safety will be at the range characters own peril.

Not to mention, a range character would be able to create a fluid attack chain of range attacks, a melee character won't.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Well, a range character will have the ability to try to stay at range.

Safety will be at the range characters own peril.

Not to mention, a range character would be able to create a fluid attack chain of range attacks, a melee character won't.

Wha?

Without seeing the actual powers available, I think the biggest obstacles to turning a ranged power set into a melee power set will be two things:

  1. some ranged abilities will be ground-targeted AoE, which is more of a hassle than an obstacle, and
  2. a significant portion of ranged abilities will have an interruptible cast time.

I think it will be the second that really provides the difference in play style between melee and ranged


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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One of the main problems

One of the main problems early on will be the relative squishiness of ranged characters. Which will limit how much melee they can be in. Once we get the ranged/protection archetype? Specification? Not up on terms. Once we get a ranged/protection build they'll be just as viable in melee as the melee primary archetypes.

With the exception of any that utilize long narrow cone attacks as those would be much harder to target in melee.

Using a protection tertiary on early ranged characters would help the viability of a ranged character in melee.

But as for aesthetics other than suspension of disbelief there is no reason I can see why a melee attack can't be reskinned as looking like a ranged attack. Same as adding shockwaves can allow a melee animation to be used for a ranged attack. You punch so hard you send a shockwave to hit your opponent at a range. Or have it skinned as some sort of chi attack, or some elemental blast like the bending from Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Well, a range character will have the ability to try to stay at range.

Safety will be at the range characters own peril.

Not to mention, a range character would be able to create a fluid attack chain of range attacks, a melee character won't.

Wha?

Without seeing the actual powers available, I think the biggest obstacles to turning a ranged power set into a melee power set will be two things:

  1. some ranged abilities will be ground-targeted AoE, which is more of a hassle than an obstacle, and
  2. a significant portion of ranged abilities will have an interruptible cast time.

I think it will be the second that really provides the difference in play style between melee and ranged

Why would you assume a game that is trying to copy CoH so much, would give the range abilities interruptible cast time? In CoH only one range attack could be interrupted and in the end, they gave the players an easy work around for it to make it a useful attack.

As for the targeted AOE, I said attack chain. I was talking a single target one.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Why would you assume a game that is trying to copy CoH so much, would give the range abilities interruptible cast time? In CoH only one range attack could be interrupted and in the end, they gave the players an easy work around for it to make it a useful attack.

As for the targeted AOE, I said attack chain. I was talking a single target one.

Perhaps I wasn't very clear in my choice of wording.

I didn't assume there would be, I was saying that if there would be a characteristic that would differentiate ranged from melee, that would be one. In fact I think it would be necessary unless there was some other difference. So what would another difference be?

It could be as Project_Hero stated in that the only difference between a ranged power set and a melee power set is your choice of specialization (secondary powers). Well, and the fact that a melee power set probably won't let you attack at range. So if a ranged set lets you attack at close range and long range, and a melee set only lets you attack at close range... it seems like there are few reasons to go with a melee set unless you are looking specifically for the defense specialization.

But even though ranged archetypes get to pick a support specialization and melee archetypes get to pick defense specialization, they both have the option of choosing a mitigation specialization. So what would be the difference then? Why would someone who wanted the mitigation specialization choose the ranged-restricted melee archetype when the unrestricted ranged archetype is available? To answer this question, I think there will be another difference between the archetypes (primary powersets) as well, in that the melee archetypes will have more hit points as a rule. But this is only conjecture because CoX had this feature.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Nothing so far has lead me to

Nothing so far has lead me to believe that the CoT devs are going to change to much from what CoH did with range powers, except maybe fix some of the problems CoH may or may not have fixed at that time.

Like the Sniper not being useful.

I'm hoping they don't limit the melee sets to all 100% melee. Spines had a couple ranged attacks. Some melee sets had 1 ranged attack. A range attack and a melee closer would be nice for the sets. One range attack that does good damage, doesn't break the set, as you'll never (if it sticks to being like CoH) have the best ranged damage attack chain as a melee. With the range attack being used in melee often, and possibly on runners.

I believe only Spines Impale was worth using, if memory serves, with Super Strength's range attack, not being that great for the single target damage.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I believe only Spines Impale was worth using, if memory serves, with Super Strength's range attack, not being that great for the single target damage.

Spines - Impale was an excellent (short) ranged attack with a long-ish cooldown. Its best feature was that it immobilized the target.
Spines also had a Cone or two, a PBAoE and a PBAoE Toggle. It was awesome in a target-rich situation. https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Spines
Mine was Spines/Invulnerability.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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I recall spines quite well :)

I recall spines quite well :) Got my Spines/Dark up to running both PBAOE toggles at once :) Took some work. Also got the good attack chain with it, which Impale was part of. It's cool down wasn't that long. However, that MAY have been after the animation change.

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I solo'd my Thugs Mastermind

I solo'd my Thugs Mastermind very well. barely ever had to use force fields.

I could see a Commander (mastermind) sweeping the streets with mercs, dual pistoleers, armed men in black, angry hobos with shot guns...
it would be GLORIOUS!