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Inherent Powers

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Lord Nightmare
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Inherent Powers

Short and sweet:

CoH had inherent powers which were abilities every hero/villain had such as a sprint, walk, brawl (very weak punches to use when your abilities were all on cooldown) rest, slightly higher jump, so on..

If you wanna see them all:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Universal_Inherent_Powers
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Fitness

I'd like to know if such things are planned to be in the game.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

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Lord Nightmare
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Also, an idea came to me of

Also, an idea came to me of one such. A block to use when all other powers are on cooldown. Perhaps a 30 second recharge one that blocks either a set amount of damage or increases your damage resistance by 2x or 3x for, say, 5 seconds?

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I'm really hoping that in the

I'm really hoping that in the new system those old stodgy inherent powers aren't needed. If they do give us inherent powers make them something interesting to use until we get something better. Brawl...yeah...not needed, rest? Yup, also not needed.

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I remember rest having like

I remember rest having like this long cooldown. So couldn't use it like right after fights.

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Lord Nightmare
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Well they weren't really for

Well they weren't really for every use, but it was nice to have both abilities you didn't have to learn and were common sense. I mean really.. what hero CAN'T throw a punch?

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Yea but it also changed how I

Yea but it also changed how I played too. I liked to try to keep chain battles and limit downtime. But after a while I would need to heal up. So I'd use it. Then go another chain. And when needing healing I couldn't because my rest was still on cool down. So I had to just stand there and naturally wait to be healed. Was kind of annoying. I liked how in other games you didn't have a cooldown on your rest ability.

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>.> you do know that there

>.> you do know that there were inspirations that healed you, yes? And they had pretty much no cooldown.

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^^;; drank them like water.

^^;; drank them like water. Never had enough on me.

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Okay, well what sort of

Okay, well what sort of inherent powers are people wanting? I was thinking along the lines of passive abilities that a certain class would start with. But could choose between several variants.

Keep Low. Move Fast. Kill First. Die Last. One Shot. One Kill. No Luck. Pure Skill.

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The way I see it: The fewer

The way I see it: The fewer for free the better.

Why? Because it takes away variety.

Everybody should be able to enhance their running speed and jumping height and regen and stuff like that to an extent. And sure enough you should be able to pick some of that at character selection already, maybe even with extra points that can only be spent on such. But like I found in CoX days too, none of that should come for free for everybody because it makes the game needlessly boring.

If everybody can run super fast and jump yards high and insta-regenerate at the push of a button without having to 'buy' that in any way, nobody can make their character stand out by having that trait. Because EVERYBODY has it. Also nobody can make a character that does NOT that trait, let alone trade it for some other trait.

rah.

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I believe I head talk of some

I believe I head talk of some kind of specialization you take during character creation, not unlike the archetype inherent powers, as a way to further customize your build.

Weather we need rest or not depends on how HP and regeneration are handled. Is there going to be the same constant regeneration/recovery we got in CoH, or is it going to be little regeneration/recover while in combat and near instant regeneration/recover out of combat. If the former, a power like rest will be needed. Not to say it couldn't have a more sensible recharge time.

I'm all for a token attack, frankly I'd like 2; a brawl and a ranged equivalent. Beyond that, perhaps some way to enhance your physical attributes (like fitness). With everyone getting travel powers at level 1, there is really no need for sprint.

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Inherent powers?...,

Inherent powers?...,

- ...sure...go ahead and keep sprint, brawl and rest. Nixing the refresh timer on rest would be groovy (<- rest already gets -Def, locks out most powers and roots the character to the ground...the refresh timer is kind of like salt to an open wound...). Had a SR/Claws Scrapper who used sprint as their travel power...not as fast as Superspeed or as high as Superleap, but a happy medium for my casual playstyle. Would be nice if Brawl triggered AT inherent abilities such as Punch-voke, Scrapper crit or Blaster defiance. Imagine the brutality of a Corrupter who decides to not unload on his weakened victim, but pummels them to death as Scourge kicks in with every Brawl. ^_^

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There should also be glitter

There should also be glitter flight for example when you fly there is glitter around you that should be a flight.

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Also, will city of titans be

Also, will city of titans be free to play like city of heroes was like, no subscription if it is free that would be great.

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Also, please consider making

Also, please consider making wings too that would be awesome. Just to tell you I am just throwing ideas out there so if you were ever to choose which you might i dont know, maybe pick mine just an idea lol.

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...hadn't thought of that.

...hadn't thought of that. That'd have been even better for Corruptor :D

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Hi Winx, Glitter would be an

Hi Winx, Glitter would be an Aura you can add to your character, They will probably have Free To Play, and definitely Wings!
However, Not all or even any of these may be available when the game launches, we might have to wait a little bit longer.

Stay tuned...

___

"Listen, and understand. City of Titans is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until we are live!"
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I believe right now it won't

I believe right now it won't be f2p. That's not the model they will be going with right now. It will be a subby game. Need the monies so they can make the game amazing.

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Ellysyn wrote:
Ellysyn wrote:

I believe right now it won't be f2p. That's not the model they will be going with right now. It will be a subby game. Need the monies so they can make the game amazing.

CoX was F2P...and I think by way of the effort incurred by CoT, that the predecessor was most certainly amazing. ^_^

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Ellysyn wrote:
Ellysyn wrote:

I believe right now it won't be f2p. That's not the model they will be going with right now. It will be a subby game. Need the monies so they can make the game amazing.

CoT IS going to be F2P with an optional sub that only confers small bonuses like a stipend and a few extra goodies. HOWEVER, it will not be free to buy but rather have a onetime fee of 50 dollars to play. So it's F2P but not F2B.

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GFN: got an official source

GFN: got an official source for any of that, especially the price? Last I checked, the subscription/payment model was so far from being set in stone, it'd be generous to use the term 'wet mud'.


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Depending on how you read

Depending on how you read what is released, it can be very confusing.

There is apparently going to be a box price, and the subscription will be optional. That is what I am getting from the details on kickstarter.

Quote:

To support the game, we will be charging for what we call 'the box.' It may be a purchase via an online service such as Steam or through our website, but there will be a fee for the game itself. This fee, however, will effectively cover the first three months of subscription. There's some simple reasons for why. First, it means that people who come into the game to grief or farm gold, are essentially paying us to ban them. And if they want to come back again and again, they're limited by the costs they incur. Secondly, and more pragmatically, it means the people playing the game will, at least in theory, be able to use our cash shop.

Yes, we are going to have a cash shop, but we're going to hold very tightly to certain rules. 1: A good value for money. 2: No Pay To Win. 3: Something for Everyone. We're going to want you to use it, but we're going to want you to want to use it, too.

As for Subscriptions, yes, the plan is to offer them, but not require them. Once you have purchased the game, you can play the game. You will get a few months of the VIP Subscription with your game purchase off the bat, and will have the option of continuing to subscribe, or to play as a free player and purchase from the cash shop a la carte. The final details of the VIP Subscription are not hammered down, but some areas are settled: At no time will you lose access to something you had access to and VIP Subscribers will get a stipend for the cash shop of greater value than the cost of the subscription.

So, you will be getting at least one months subscription when you purchase the game (if not more out the box), and at no point will you loose access to what you previously had.

So, that in my mind means that there will be no "Auction house" or "crafting" licenses to purchase if you decide to drop your sub... and that if you created a whole load of characters at the start, you will still retain access to ALL of them even if you choose to drop your sub fee.

As to how much the sub fee will be though... that is *not* mentioned.

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So like TSW?

So like TSW?

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Yep, like The Secret World.

Yep, like The Secret World.

Although as you can already tell, it isn't exactly clear as to what they do actually plan to do, which is why people are getting confused.

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Whatever they decide on. As

Whatever they decide on. As long as it means it gets them more monies so they can give us more content and fixes in shorter amounts of time rather then 6 months and the only patch released is for a new vehicle in the game store >.>

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Blue Raptor wrote:
Blue Raptor wrote:

The way I see it: The fewer for free the better.
Why? Because it takes away variety.
Everybody should be able to enhance their running speed and jumping height and regen and stuff like that to an extent. And sure enough you should be able to pick some of that at character selection already, maybe even with extra points that can only be spent on such. But like I found in CoX days too, none of that should come for free for everybody because it makes the game needlessly boring.
If everybody can run super fast and jump yards high and insta-regenerate at the push of a button without having to 'buy' that in any way, nobody can make their character stand out by having that trait. Because EVERYBODY has it. Also nobody can make a character that does NOT that trait, let alone trade it for some other trait.

I think that is a bit of a hyperbole. The inherit powers in CoH could be left effectively useless or could be used to complement a build. At no time an inherit power would be able to make you overpowered... except for fully IOed regeneration scrappers. But even then it was nice knowing you didn't have to take away from the build to get some extra endurance when you could just slot some into fitness.EDIT: In a way i think it may have helped variety due to the fact you wouldn't have to worry all that much about your basic needs such as endurance management and miss out on a power to get abilities that every character is going to need anyway. That is why CoH gave everyone Fitness power pool, everyone took it for the regen and endurance, pretty much ensuring you out of three possible powers and therefore variety. Of course this is just my opinion :)

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I'd like to basic flight as

I'd like to basic flight as an inherent. Some travel power helps each team move effectively.

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GFN wrote:
GFN wrote:

Well they weren't really for every use, but it was nice to have both abilities you didn't have to learn and were common sense. I mean really.. what hero CAN'T throw a punch?

True, GFN!

Any civilian can use Brawl (which is why it became inherent), but the more melee-oriented characters had further, more intensive training (which became their primary or secondary power pool)!

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Ellysyn wrote:
Ellysyn wrote:

^^;; drank them like water. Never had enough on me.

(*whispers*) That was Enriche you were drinking. Just saying ...!

*chortles fiendishly and rubs her forepaws together*

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Our current plan (no promises

Our current plan (no promises, subject to change, yadda yadda) is to have dedicated space set asside for non-combat abilities, this includes a place for a travel power of your choosing. After that, should you desire more robust travel powers, or additional travel powers, then you'd dip into the tertiary sets and they'd come from your power selections gained through progression.

Resting is something we are exploring.


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For my Rest power, I want to

For my Rest power, I want to summon a Hammock and Umbrella, so I can rock away my cares in the shade.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Since we're talking about

Since we're talking about inherent powers, I think we should include "purchasable powers" (a.k.a. temporary powers) in the list. A superpower should be super, not because it has a cool special effect, but because you can't purchase it off the shelf. There are a lot of things that you CAN purchase off the shelf in real life that are almost as good as superpowers.

For instance, there's a device that lets you move at 60mph or better called a motorcycle. The disadvantage to a motorcycle is that you have to go back to wherever you left it in order to use it, and it can be stolen or broken. In-game, this might be equivalent to having a long summoning time and letting enemies damage it in combat in ways that require it to heal before you can summon it again. It's a nuisance compared to the actual super-powers, but it's serviceable to get you to the next mission door early in the game, before you can select a movement power.

Another example is guns. Having a gun is the closest a normal human can get to being a blaster. In CoH, pistols were always a fairly weak weapon that you could pull out if your opponent was too far away to hit with brawl. This is reasonable. More effective guns should probably just not be available to your typical superhero until they're of a higher level. This is realistic. Most characters won't bother carrying them because their normal abilities are better, but sometimes it's useful for a scrapper to be able to just pull out a gun and pop someone.

Med packs, single-use explosive charges for bank vaults, grenades, sleeping gas, body armor, etc. are all examples of things that your typical human could get hold of (eventually), but should never actually be better than equivalent super powers. When I was working up new characters, I would very often rely upon those powers (like the Nemesis Staff) to make the character interesting until they leveled up enough to have decent powers of their own.

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Ah yes.. I do love Devices!

Ah yes.. I do love Devices! Although personally I think they should be limited in use and vended in zones. Kinda fits with my joke store "Villain-Mart" (For all your diabolical needs, shop smart, shop Villain-Mart) in another thread that would sell C4 and henchmen and such at bargain prices. Take from that what you will, but I'd like to be able to buy limited use abilities like timebombs and mercs and HoTs and buffs...

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The Mall of Justice and the

The Mall of Justice and the Emporium of Evil, you mean.

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Lately I've been playing The

Lately I've been playing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing. As you play there are a number of Perks that become available at a rate far faster than they can be selected. This gives huge variety of "Inherent abilities" without all of them being either free or pay to win. Any one of them gives appreciable advantage without being too powerful. Some perks are benign in game play but have very nice features like giving you a larger stash so you don't have to "sell" as frequently. Others give you buffs or enhance some abilities of your minion (Lady Katrina), in turn helping you. I think at level 20 you have like ten or fifteen perks available to choose from but have only been able to select like three or four perks of your preference.

My thoughts are that this would be a nice way to allow players to select a particular type of inherent power over another without having them all free or having them so nerfed that they are worthless. Valuable customizations available to all but a limited number that may be chosen. This adds nice enhancements to the character or play style without breaking game play balance.

If someone preferred brawling to sprinting they could take that perk, etc. As you gain levels more perks become available to select from but only every so many levels. For example, you may see new perks available every two or three levels but may only select one at intervals of say every seven or ten levels.

This would work for including some Fitness abilities too without forcing them onto players that didn't really want/like them. (Though I personally found at least most of the fitness set invaluable for most of my characters, especially Stamina.)

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Flow- wrote:
Flow- wrote:

I think that is a bit of a hyperbole. The inherit powers in CoH could be left effectively useless or could be used to complement a build. At no time an inherit power would be able to make you overpowered... except for fully IOed regeneration scrappers. But even then it was nice knowing you didn't have to take away from the build to get some extra endurance when you could just slot some into fitness.EDIT: In a way i think it may have helped variety due to the fact you wouldn't have to worry all that much about your basic needs such as endurance management and miss out on a power to get abilities that every character is going to need anyway. That is why CoH gave everyone Fitness power pool, everyone took it for the regen and endurance, pretty much ensuring you out of three possible powers and therefore variety. Of course this is just my opinion :)

Oh, I never argued that it wouldn't be easier or more convenient. (Though I might argue that being a good thing.)
But having the choice of X out of Y powers is more variety than having X out of only Y-4 powers because 4 of the powers are now inherent.

The way it was before Fitness became inherent in CoX was not so great either. Agreed.
But if any super power is so good and/or vital that everybody has to choose it anyway, that is imo just bad game design. And should rather be fixed by better balancing than by giving that power to everybody.

(And yes, having to 'waste' a pool for a power you pretty much needed anyway was not great. But wouldn't it have been even better to make those powers free of pool and other restrictions and giving everybody 2, 3 or 4 additional power choices at Level 1? So you can choose those fitness powers OR skip some of them (or even all of them!) and choose something else?)

rah.

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I like the idea of inherent

I like the idea of inherent powers for one reason...they can be individually enhanced to further customize how your character works and plays.

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How about giving us a Pool of

How about giving us a Pool of Inherents to pick from that also add into the Story of the game/missions.

Consider having a Pool of say 12-16 "Inherent Traits" that can be used to Frame how the Character operates, Say Rational that makes you less likly to Believe in the Mystical answers (If your of a Tech background Say) and provide a Small bonus to Say Damage against that type of enemies (Mystical).
Or Say Loony, that makes certain totally insane Action appear normal to you, and Randomaly provides a Different Bonus every mission you do.
Maybe even, Athletic, In Chases or Pursuits (If there are any) you start out closer to the Target, It also provide a Small bonus to "Stamina" or "Stamina Regen" (Or maybe even a slight Base speed upgrade)

They could be anything, but they would be needed to be Blocked off based upon Origin or the like.

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RickmanUK wrote:
RickmanUK wrote:

Consider having a Pool of say 12-16 "Inherent Traits" that can be used to Frame how the Character operates, ...They could be anything, but they would be needed to be Blocked off based upon Origin or the like.

I agree that the Inherent Powers ought to be expanded in this new game to a Pool of at least 10-20 choices. This would allow people to customize which ones they wanted so they wouldn't be forced into always having the same ones. It could be made so people could chose like say any 4 or 5 from that overall list at character creation and they could be respec-able if desired.

This pool could include the original standard ones (like Brawl, Sprint and Rest) as well as many adapted from the dozens of Temporary (see http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Temporary_Powers) and Origin powers (see http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Origin_Powers) that existed in CoH. I think many of those could serve the purpose of generic/minor filler powers that characters can use until they fill out their attack chains.

Also I don't think any of these powers should be limited by anything like Origins or the like in this new game. Maybe I want a tech-based character who happens to have a minor magical power for some reason or vice-versa - who says my magic-users couldn't use a Taser if they got desperate enough? ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Ooo.. I like this idea. Might

Ooo.. I like this idea. Might even be able to have doubled-edged swords

Frosty - You're no stranger to the cold side of the world and have an increased resistance to Frost attacks, however you take more damage from Fire attacks
Holy - You've said your prayers, been anointed, and are now resistance to Dark and Light attacks but more susceptible to all other types

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If memory serves (which on a

If memory serves (which on a Monday morning is a sketchy proposition at best), CoH considered and ultimately discarded the resist/vulnerability idea as it could lead to players unintentionally gimping themselves in the name of flavour, especially due to very imbalanced %s of exotic damage types. I don't believe (using your Frosty example) that there were a significant number of cold-using enemies at any tier of play, whereas fire damage was common from levels 1-50.

It would be nice to allow some builds to shore up weak elemental/energy defenses (I'm looking at you, Invulnerability!) but care would have to be taken to ensure that other builds can't use such a feature to push high defenses to the limit at a minimal detriment on the other side.

Not to say it couldn't be done... just that the devs would have to make a conscious effort to ensure that the resist/vulnerability numbers matched up to the damage types in terms of levels found, enemies using, etc. (Or just show more love for the damage types by increasing the frequency of some of the more exotic ones, making defenses against them relevant... which I think was the subject of another suggestion thread I ran across a while ago.)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

RickmanUK wrote:
Consider having a Pool of say 12-16 "Inherent Traits" that can be used to Frame how the Character operates,
...
They could be anything, but they would be needed to be Blocked off based upon Origin or the like.

I agree that the Inherent Powers ought to be expanded in this new game to a Pool of at least 10-20 choices. This would allow people to customize which ones they wanted so they wouldn't be forced into always having the same ones. It could be made so people could chose like say any 4 or 5 from that overall list at character creation and they could be respec-able if desired.
This pool could include the original standard ones (like Brawl, Sprint and Rest) as well as many adapted from the dozens of Temporary (see http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Temporary_Powers) and Origin powers (see http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Origin_Powers) that existed in CoH. I think many of those could serve the purpose of generic/minor filler powers that characters can use until they fill out their attack chains.
Also I don't think any of these powers should be limited by anything like Origins or the like in this new game. Maybe I want a tech-based character who happens to have a minor magical power for some reason or vice-versa - who says my magic-users couldn't use a Taser if they got desperate enough? ;)

Yes, I like this! Most comic heroes undergo life changes that remove/grant different abilities through major story lines. How about incorporating a way to have changes to inherent powers after doing certain story arcs. Maybe through selecting an inherent to modify or give up in order to gain a more powerful or altogether different inherent power. This could be a nice way to lose one inherent you've decided you don't like without having a full blown respec.

I never liked doing a full respec just because it was typically to change just one or at most two powers that didn't suit me. This would be a nice way to get around such an issue, especially with the inherent powers that are valuable but not essential.

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RickmanUK wrote:
RickmanUK wrote:

How about giving us a Pool of Inherents to pick from that also add into the Story of the game/missions.
Consider having a Pool of say 12-16 "Inherent Traits" that can be used to Frame how the Character operates, Say Rational that makes you less likly to Believe in the Mystical answers (If your of a Tech background Say) and provide a Small bonus to Say Damage against that type of enemies (Mystical).
Or Say Loony, that makes certain totally insane Action appear normal to you, and Randomaly provides a Different Bonus every mission you do.
Maybe even, Athletic, In Chases or Pursuits (If there are any) you start out closer to the Target, It also provide a Small bonus to "Stamina" or "Stamina Regen" (Or maybe even a slight Base speed upgrade)
They could be anything, but they would be needed to be Blocked off based upon Origin or the like.

This gives me a bit of an idea.

Much like how CO did it, what if you had a large selection of inherit powers at the character creation screen. In other words, you select your primary and secondary powersets, your role and your costume, but then you choose your training.

Training could be a large list of Inherit powers that you can choose some number of (for example, 4). These would direct your playstyle towards how you wanted your character to operate. At any point in the game you can spend in game currency to re-train your character in the event you do not like the direction your character was headed.

A small problem i found with CoH was it had it's archetypes layed out in a way that some were reliant on teams and some were not (then you get the PB's and WS's that are just flat out wildcards). I always had trouble playing a controller but never a dominator, due to the fact that controllers had a secondary powerset that focused on buffing allies, and i happen to play solo or in small teams.

In CoT i imagine there not to be a controller and a dominator, however i imagine that you could play either one as a manipulator (i think the term was). With the training concept in the game, you could really tailor your character to how you wanted to play. Either spec your training into stronger buffs or lower cooldown time, or go to a solo type deal and focus on your own survivability.

If i wanted to be a defender in city of heroes, the first 20 levels for me would be more or less a struggle. If my character's background happened to be survival training, accuracy, evasive maneuvers and damage absorption training then i wouldn't be a team player defender anymore, just as i want.

These training specs would be very weak, just enough for the character to switch gears. maybe 20 more health at level 1 (assuming the squishy class would have 90 health as default at level 1). The accuracy buff would be just enough to make certain 'vital' powers hit just a little more often, the defensive training would give a 2-3% chance to dodge an attack and the damage absorption would maybe give a 5% damage reduction after you receive a few hits. Very small amounts that change the way a character is played. The amounts would not be big enough to make a defender into a tank or a tank into a blaster. but it would permit the use of any powerset without worrying about the suitability of the character in teams or in solo play.

EDIT: These would not be upgradable like the player's powersets.
The best part of it is if it was implemented, everyone would have these inherit traits that they chose, so it wouldn't be just another buff to add on, instead it would require a form of planning. Choosing more damage, better accuracy, higher critical hits, and increased critical hit chance, this would mean that you did not get the bonuses that some one else may have chose, such as buff strength, heal magnitude, damage reduction, dodge chance, debuff strength... the list goes on. Speccing into one set of training would take away from another, reducing the chance for universalization while increasing variety and customization.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

I'm all for a token attack, frankly I'd like 2; a brawl and a ranged equivalent.

Actually, everyone in the game got Brawl (token melee) and an Origin Power (token ranged). The only problem was that neither of these powers scaled all that adequately into the later game, and your Origin Power flat out couldn't be enhanced at all, making it quite gimptacular beyond Beginner's Luck.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

syntaxerror37 wrote:
I'm all for a token attack, frankly I'd like 2; a brawl and a ranged equivalent.
Actually, everyone in the game got Brawl (token melee) and an Origin Power (token ranged). The only problem was that neither of these powers scaled all that adequately into the later game, and your Origin Power flat out couldn't be enhanced at all, making it quite gimptacular beyond Beginner's Luck.

Yeah, I know. I was just saying I'd like it again.

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why not have a "level zero"

why not have a "level zero" power for each "offensive" set.... basically, your "inherent" or "brawl" power is tied into how you normally fight.... so yeah, it might be a punch, but it might just as likely be a magic missile... but in whatever form it is a quick, zero-energy power that is usable from the get go.

on the plus side, it would eliminate that sort of "limp wrist" first power potentiality, and give you two offensive powers from the get go that fit your theme...

...because, while "anyone can throw a punch".... someone who has devoted their life to the improvement of their psyonic powers might punch like the 90lbs weakling, and Thorbag the Everslayer would punch like the 250lbs of pure immortal viking muscle that he is.

"Brawl" was ordinary, but we are not ordinary folk.

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I always thought there ought

I always thought there ought to be a Druid equivalent to the Magic Missile spell, called Tragic Thistle.

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Dinnae be daft, man! You

Dinnae be daft, man! You cannae attack the darkness with a thistle!

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...therein lies the tragedy..

...therein lies the tragedy...

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