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An Important Lesson

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Voldine
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An Important Lesson

A year before the release of Too Human, Silicon Knights sued Epic Games over selling them a version of the Unreal Engine 3 that was allegedly glitchy and flawed. However, in a twist of fate, Epic counter-sued them, citing unauthorized modifications to the engine and the lack of credit or royalties Epic was given. After five years of arguing, the court ruled in favor of Epic, and Silicon Knights was fined $13 million for damages as a direct result. In addition, they were ordered by the court to recall and eradicate all unsold copies of Too Human, their later project, X-Men: Destiny, the game codes using the modified engine, and any other future projects planned.

To the devs: Whatever happens, whatever pitfalls, traps, glitcheshf, intense bugginess...consult with the writers of the base engine first before trying to kitbash around it. Granted Silicon Knights had a spectacular and horrifying fall from grace in their latter years that was fueled by the ego of their CEO and MWM is just starting out; I do want to see this project succeed.

If something isn't working, ask Epic first. Don't find a way around it only to have it blow up later.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
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Darth Fez
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Isn't this why MWM is buying

Isn't this why MWM is buying a license for the UT engine? My understanding was that with this license they would be authorized to make changes to the engine.

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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!

Gangrel
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"Wikipedia" wrote:
"Wikipedia" wrote:

In 2007, Silicon Knights sued Epic Games for failure to "provide a working game engine", causing the Ontario based game developer to "experience considerable losses." Silicon Knights' suit alleged that Epic was "sabotaging" Unreal Engine 3 licensees. Epic's licensing document stated that a working version of the engine would be available within six months of the Xbox 360 developer kits being released. Silicon Knights claimed that Epic not only missed this deadline, but that when a working version of the engine was eventually released, the documentation was insufficient. They also claimed Epic had withheld vital improvements to the game engine, claiming they were "game specific", while also using licensing fees to fund development of their own titles rather than the engine itself.[8]
On August 9, 2007, Epic Games counter-sued Silicon Knights, claiming that they were using its engine without paying royalties.[9] On May 30, 2012, Epic Games defeated Silicon Knights' lawsuit, and won its counter-suit for $4.45 million on grounds of copyright infringement, misappropriation of trade secrets, and breach of contract.[10] Consistent with Epic's counterclaims, the presiding judge stated that Silicon Knights had "deliberately and repeatedly copied thousands of lines of Epic Games’ copyrighted code, and then attempted to conceal its wrongdoing by removing Epic Games’ copyright notices and by disguising Epic Games’ copyrighted code as Silicon Knights’ own."[11]
As a result, on November 7, 2012, Silicon Knights was directed by the court to destroy all game code derived from Unreal Engine 3, all information from licensee-restricted areas of Epic's Unreal Engine documentation website, and to permit Epic Games access to the company's servers and other devices to ensure these items have been removed. In addition, they were instructed to recall and destroy all unsold retail copies of games built with Unreal Engine 3 code, including Too Human, X-Men Destiny, The Sandman, The Box/Ritualyst, and Siren in the Maelstrom (the latter three titles were projects never released, or even officially announced).[12]

I believe that this might well help clear up the situation.

But it is something to take note of though.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Gangrel
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Isn't this why MWM is buying a license for the UT engine? My understanding was that with this license they would be authorized to make changes to the engine.

Whilst you are correct, I believe that the licensing has changed over the years. However, remember that 25% (ish) of all MWM's revenue (from the game) goes towards Epic now. If they stopped paying Epic (or missed out a payment for ANY reason), then something similar could well happen to them, especially if they had modified the engine.

I could be wrong, but if you *buy* a version of Epic, you are stuck with that version (or at least that could well be the case back then), MWM are effectively "renting" the Epic engine, with the bonus of always getting the updates. If you buy it, you might have (at least at that point in time) been stuck with the version that you bought.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Darth Fez
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The solution seems obvious to

The solution seems obvious to me.

Step 1: Don't engage in frivolous lawsuits.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit.

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Gangrel
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Not necessarily. I believed

Not necessarily. I believed (at least at that point in time) that Silicon Knights had some case for it, in that they were sold a faulty product and that Epic were not going to help them out (the stuff that fixed/improved features in the general engine were "Game specific"....in a general engine release, which anyone from that point forward could have used).

<.speculation>
I think that Silicon Knights might have stopped paying Epic, and then tried to fix it, which was where their problems really kicked in. If Silicon Knights had carried on paying Epic, the case might have gone differently. <./speculation>

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Catherine America
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I think that SK needed to

I think that SK needed to challenge Epic on Epic's failure to deliver, and then SK should have also ceased development at that point.
Following events would have jeopardized multiple projects' timelines, but they could have attached those damages to the original challenge. Then again, it's also possible that the original contract may not have been favorable for such a challenge to begin with.

While no doubt concerned about their own timelines and financial commitments, SK ran afoul when they pressed on with unauthorized customizing of Epic's product. The notion or fact that it was initially Epic's own negligence or failure-to-deliver that led them down that path is irrelevant.

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Our devs' relationship with

Our devs' relationship with the folks at Unreal has been mutually responsive and fruitful. The lines of communication are wide open and whatever happened with the unfortunate situation in the OP will certainly not be repeated with Missing Worlds Media.

Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

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Voldine
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Half of the situation with SK

Half of the situation with SK was just the CEO being full of himself to the point where Narcissus would say 'Dude, you need help.'

My main concern was just based on how ambitious this project is, and what happened with this engine and a certain previous ambitious project.

No matter how good things are going, getting a swelled head makes you as good as dead.

The original Lady of Ysgard. -Virtue
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Brand X
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I don't think we have to

I don't think we have to worry about our devs getting a swelled head until after the release date.