As I was pondering ideas for the [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/ideas-exploration-badges]Explorations Badges[/url] thread, this idea came to me and I'm pretty sure other people will have other ideas so I'm creating this thread to capture them.
One of the things that was [b]sorely[/b] missing from Paragon City was actual street names. DCUO gave the impression of street names when you chose an address for your lair entrance, but there was no correlation to any actual streets in the city itself.
Titan City should have streets with names and >gasp< actual addresses. For lore reasons, GPS has been disabled or reception is restricted in Titan City so players have to navigate Titan City by using a street map instead of UI markers on the minimap. As the characters progress, perhaps there is a mission that unlocks GPS and minimap markers, but by then the players are familiar with the major thoroughfares, byways and flyways of Titan City. Of course, unlocking GPS could always be a cash shop purchase for people who want UI map markers from the beginning.
I can think of two reasons why CoX did not use street addresses. First, there were so many different missions that could use any number of doors so as to mix up travel requirements so they could not use static addresses. But even if different random doors are used for instances, it seems pretty easy to display the correct address for whichever door was selected this time. Second, the same doors could be used for different missions. Players developed a certain suspension of disbelief when they entered any building. Since there was no static address or building name it was easy to believe that the interior of the building for one mission is so drastically different than the interior of the building for some other mission even though both were at the same door. It would be harder to suspend this disbelief when the address of the door is known to be the same. But in my opinions that's a pretty weak reason, since we already recognize the door anyway. Besides, who knows what amount of interior redesigning went on between missions. I distinctly remember exiting one mission in a task force only for the same door to be the entrance for the next mission in the same task force and the interior was completely different. So I wouldn't worry too much about such occurrences ruining immersion. The players' ability to suspend disbelief is strong and the need to is far outweighed, in my opinion, by the superior immersion of street names and addresses..
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
So... Titan City has been mapped out with actual street names and addresses... we have some work to do to get names represented on street posts, but the City is actually mapped with street addresses... thanks to our amazing lore and mapping team that set that up street maps before any of us doing model placement began putting things in place...
One caveat - not every street has a name... Most of the major avenues, boulevards, highways, tunnels, bridges etc. have names, but a lot of the smaller streets (and things like pathways in NRD) do not have names... but it's all organized on a map and most of the big roads have names...
[color=#ff0000]Environmental Artist, PR Editor[/color]
That is awesome to hear. Do you know if any of the writing team will be using those street names?
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Some of the Downtown areas are identified primarily by streets... Fountain Street is one area and Armistice Street is another area of Downtown... I'm pretty sure that those and other streets will be incorporated into the mission story telling...
[color=#ff0000]Environmental Artist, PR Editor[/color]
I like this, it really gives the sense of immersion that you're in a real city. I'm fond of the devil being in the details, but this kind of devil I can live with.
In the [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/ideas-exploration-badges]exploration badges thread[/url], [color=red]Redlynne[/color] proposed using a tracking scanner to find objects in the game world. I really like this idea.
To summarize, imagine you had a temporary ability that lets you know your proximity to an unknown location. Maybe it even gives you a direction result to it. This would be your scanner.
Now imagine that an NPC gives you the scanner so you can track a person, object or other McGuffin. You can use the scanner to find the mission door for the next mission. Or you can use it to find which NPC among many is carrying the goods, or has the virus, etc.
Maybe using a scanner is a playstyle option afforded to people who like stealthy infiltration gameplay for a particular character that lets them search someplace without having to defeat everything to find it, which would be the more confrontational approach. Both choices (stealth or headbashing) being available options based on mission dialogue choices, which in turn are based upon alignment axis scores.
Another way to use the scanner would be to find caches of salvage ingredients and maybe rare recipes. Either as a mission reward or as a cash shop item, player characters may obtain single-use scanners that locate secret caches of treasure. Perhaps subscribers get one free a week and everyone else gets one for every 10 hours of playtime or something like that. I like the idea of providing the scanner as a reward rather than simply the treasure itself, because it gets people out and exploring the game world. Beside, everyone loves MMOs in which they see other players out and about doing their own things. Even solo players play MMO because they know they are playing with others even if they aren't actually playing with others.
Perhaps scanners can be issued to new guild (supergroup?) recruits as a way of finding the entrance to the lair.
There are a lot of good potential uses for such a mechanic.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
So do I, for whatever that's worth.
Again ... for what it's worth ... I honestly prefer the "scan to find" playstyle that points you in the right direction over the "X marks the spot" marker that just tells you where to find things.
Scan To Find starts with uncertainty (where is it from here?) and draws you towards your goal.
X Marks The Spot banishes uncertainty by telling you exactly where to go.
The intermittency of the Scan To Find arrangement also makes it possible to make a MOBILE goal possible, where the goal is moving between scans (and the Player has to figure that out).
By contrast the X Marks The Spot arrangement tells you ... in advance ... that your goal is moving, because the marker moves (and you can always see the marker).
Consequently, I personally think the Scan To Find is a far more immersive and versatile way to play than any kind of reliance on an X Marks The Spot implementation required for the same functionality.
The former is engaging ... while the latter is just ho hum.
Hadn't considered the "needle in a haystack, go get the magnet" approach in quite that way, but it does make sense.
One of the things that we can (and did, often) point out with City of Heroes was that Contacts and Trainers all had their feet nailed to the ground they were standing on.
THEY NEVER MOVED.
But if you've got a Scan To Find system in place, you can have NPC Contacts who "wander around the neighborhood" rather than just standing in a single spot (and never moving from it). The Scan To Find method gives you an intermittent (on demand) reading of "which way from here to them?" rather than relying on a (moving) X Marks The Spot marker that is constantly TELLING you where they are to be found.
There are ALL KINDS of potential uses for such a game mechanic ... just be careful you don't fall into the "now I've got a hammer, everything is nails" trap of wanting to overuse it.
On the flipside, there's also [b]this problem[/b] that you can run into when people remain ignorant of it, how to use it, what it's for ... etc.
[youtube]bXHm9KVyj68[/youtube]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Another idea from the exploration badges thread that could be used in a number of different ways to get players out exploring the city is to use screenshots as clues.
Imagine a mission to find a missing socialite who went missing soon after posting a photograph. Or maybe imagine a psychic who has a vision, or maybe a mad scientist was able to recapture the last image burned into a victim’s retina. There are any number of narrative contrivances that could place an image in the hands of a player character.
In the exploration badges thread we talked about using an image to show an “X” marks the spot in the way Elder Scrolls Online does it. But this discussion revolves around the player going to where the picture was taken instead, or both.
Maybe a player with this mission who I has this reference image and goes to the correct location will procc certain NPC actions…
Or maybe if the buildings can be aligned just so, the pattern of windows with lights or shades drawn can spell something… or billboards, or graffiti…
Maybe the player character gets ambushed at that location and one of the ambushes has the next clue…
Maybe the character merely finds another clue on the ground,.. or maybe a scanner…
The uses can be fun and creative and will certainly help showcase this City MWM artists have been working so hard upon.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
When you're in the "correct place" (X marks the spot) ... your cellphone rings (you're contacted), allowing you to proceed to the next step in the chain.
Such a formulation is somewhat equivalent to that of the "pizza delivery" missions in CoH where you were required to run around town and click on phone boxes. The difference here being that ... [i]there are no public phone boxes anymore[/i] ... so there isn't a "landmark there" for you to interact with (like a phone box). Instead, it's simply a matter of "being in the right place" and your CLUE as to where that "right place" is to be found ... is a picture of that place (and what your Player camera view would be seeing there).
If you wanted to get REALLY SPOOKY with it, you'd set things up such that the game engine [b]takes a LIVE screenshot[/b] of the intended location and gives [b]that picture[/b] to the Player as a Clue as to where the Player needs to be in order to trigger the next step in the chain. The advantage of taking a [b]LIVE screenshot[/b] of the location like that is that if the Player is "close" to the destination, their character avatar will appear in the new images that get taken LIVE of the location.
So what you wind up with is a "breadcrumb" telling you to "go here" to unlock something (event, contact, badge, etc.) and you're given an in-game view of the location with no other explanation ... meaning, GO EXPLORE TO FIND THIS PLACE!
Plus, rather than being a stylized artist rendering of the location to go to (the way that ESO does its Buried Treasures), it's simply an in-game screenshot viewing the location (so you get full color and can see any Civilians wandering around the area and so on) as it appears AT THAT MOMENT.
Meaning, that if a Player is hunting for that location, they can keep "asking to see" a screenshot of the destination ... and every time they do so, the screenshot UPDATES with a Live screenshot of whatever is happening RIGHT NOW. But because it's a screenshot (rather than a moving image), if the Player can see themselves in the image (because they're close enough to the destination) then they'll be able to figure out "where to go" in order to be able to get to the right spot WITHOUT requiring a "marker" on the map pointing them to the correct location.
Done right, such a system could even be used as a [b]Mission Chain[/b] as a sort of preamble to being given a mission door.
[list=1]
[*]Go to this neighborhood
[*]Go to this street
[*]Talk to this Civilian for information
[*]Get Mission Door
[/list]
[list=1]
[*]Go to this neighborhood
[*]Stake out this location
[*]Wait for the Delivery Truck to show up and "deliver the goods" at the Mission Location
[*]Go to Mission Door
[/list]
[list=1]
[*]Go to this neighborhood
[*]Go to this street
[*]Wait HERE
[*]Mission Event starts within view of stakeout location
[/list]
The basic idea is that the Player has to "earn" the information about where to go and what to do, rather than having that all just handed to you (on a platter) with a marker on your map (like how CoH does things).
Such a system would encourage Players to "learn the city" and be familiar with how it looks in different places, so as to more easily/readily recognize where they need to go.
Instead of giving Players a "map marker" to chase after ... or even a "pointer" aiming them in the direction to go ... instead you're given a "put yourself HERE" context clue, using a (live!) screenshot view of the location as your Clue ... and it's up to the Player to figure out how to "get there" in order to (quite literally) "put themselves into the picture" ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
you could make it even more interesting by randomizing some of the locations. (i.e., you have to wait for the delivery truck in order to discover which door is the mission door). A player would not be able to view a walkthrough guide and jump ahead as the mission location could be one of a half-dozen places in a given neighborhood.
You can ... but there's a hazard with doing that.
Players are IMPATIENT BAH-STIDS!
(... and if they weren't, speedrunning wouldn't be the achievement that it is ...)
Think about it.
Anything in-game that [i]makes you wait around for something to happen[/i] quickly gets reviled by Players as an unnecessary time waster.
It kills the GOGOGOGO! buzz that you get, turning what ought to be an interesting pause for reflection and observation into a "just hurry up already!" moment that people get even more motivated to speed past.
So it really depends on the context.
If you're got a "stakeout" scenario where you need to keep a location under observation until {{insert event}} happens, that fits the narrative context for a solo mission ... but not for a Team-8 context (let alone a multi-team raid).
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Now imagine that live feed is a hostage situation being broadcast live. The villain says they'll kill the hostage(s) in 3:00 minutes unless you show up. Now you have three minutes to find that location, and can check the live feed at any time to help you narrow down the location. All sorts of different things can happen when you actually get there. You can defend the villain against NPC heroes who show up at coincidentally the same time you do, or you can fight the villain yourself so that you can get the ransom instead, or you can stop the villain and save the hostage(s).
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Eeeeh. I am in two minds about having screenshots be "live". Mainly because that gives people the opportunity to photo bomb / block most of the screenshot (either intentionally or unintentionally). So if you then have to remove *blocking characters* from the screenshot, to make it easier for people to see, then it is no longer "live".
But, a slight twist on this can be a set of screenshots (pre-taken in various lighting / weather conditions to match up with what is "now") would work around this problem. And the main thing is *giving the player* enough information to work out *where* it should be (so there should be enough distinctive information for the player to work this out).
Some people had issues in CoX finding exploration badges *just via images* (as in it would them several minutes to find them, because they would *check* every single potential location if it was a "roof top" location, and there were *numerous* badges like that. And whilst I can *understand* the thinking of "it makes people explore the world around them",
And combining that with a time limit as well? That can make people even more anxious, and apprehensive of picking / continuing content like that (players hate to fail, less so if they can just restart / attempt it again).
(the other thing is that depending on your viewpoint, some can REALLY change how stuff looks. Perspective does that)
I'm not sure this will be an issue. Since this will be a mission given to a player or team, I would expect it to be randomized location, or randomized from a selection of curated locations for this mission. If it were in the same location every time, the entire purpose of the camera would be moot. And since it will be in a different location every time, I don't foresee other players getting in the way of the camera shots. Furthermore, the location will undoubtedly be a door or manhole or cave entrance somewhere, so its not like other players will see a hostage situation out in the open and attempt to grief the camera. The way I would do it if I were designing such a mission would be to use the phase feature of the game engine and put the villain at the door performing various emotes in a phase only the people in the mission can see, and when they get close enough the kidnapper jumps into the door. Heck, you could even phase this in an outdoor location, but the problem with that is the immersion breaking fact that only the involved player(s) can see the hostage situation out in the open. It just makes more sense to put the actual confrontation inside an instance like every other mission.
Not sure if you are thinking this was a proposal to find an exploration marker or if you are just using the difficulty people had with finding some exploration markers from images as a reason not to do this. I'm assuming the latter. My answer to that is that not every play style will be perfect for every player. If I am not mistaken. MWM's goal is to engage the diverse player base with diverse gaming content. I guarantee you are correct in that some players prefer not to play missions with a timer, but I also guarantee that some players enjoy the adrenaline rush that a timed mission provides. If MWM avoided content that wasn't some players' favorite, they would have no content at all.
I agree. The images have to be from a far enough distance that whatever location they are pointing at is unique and recognizable once there. In worlds filled with copy pasta terrain features and buildings, such a find-the-camera feature is far more difficult than it should be. MWM landscape artists seem to be handcrafting much of the terrain and buildings, so I think their efforts will minimize such a predicament; however, care must still be taken to make sure any find-me cameras are at a far enough distance to show landmark details.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
OK, so that helps a bit in that you are thinking about using multiple phases that only people with that part (it wasn't exactly clear to be fair). It does make sense, but a (simpler) work around is the multiple preset screenshots (so the mission could be in one of X number of locations, then you just need that multiple of screenshots to do it. The only reason why I say this, is because of one thing that springs to mind.
To run a "live camera" you either have to load the *whole entire needed environment* of the area there, and then render it in a viewport (and if you are on one side of the map, and the "live camera" is on the *far side* of the map, that can result in it not loading up *smoothly*; this now depends on spec of machine at this point, as RAM / Disk speed all kick into play here), or you create a custom scene that only gets loaded *as needed* (so it actually *isn't* 100% the area, and is instead *highly* optimised to be used for this *exact* use case ie: lower texture quality, fewer polygons for the models, reduced frame rate, reduced resolution etc etc, so I wouldn't actually call that a "live camera").
Now, part of what I have just said also depends on how they are dealing with the zones as well. If there are "Hard breaks" between zone maps (like City of Heroes), this is less of an issue (because you can preload ahead of time for it), but for *seamless* mapping, it is *more* of an issue, because you not only have to keep track of your *local* area, but also the whole new view point zone / location as well. Again, it depends on "how live do you want to make it".
There have been complaints from other games where "NPC person making a random call to the player" has introduced stuttering / imperfect frame rate for the whole game. Hence why a lot of them tend to be *very basic / black background* calls. So this is where just using a static image *helps* a boat load (also, you can introduce more effects to a static image with a lower performance hit over 3d rendering the scene + adding effects on top).
There are exceptions like the Cyberpunk 2077 map which is 3d rendered, but you *cannot* view that map *and also* play the game at the same time. It is also a highly stylised map on top of that, with no "real world textures" being used there, although I am sure that CDProject Red *could* have done such a thing if they wanted to... for better or for worse)
It was more to point out that generally speaking, timed missions should be rather more focused, ie: you KNOW where you have to go to, and that there may be obstacles in the way (ie random ambushes), over "You have no idea where to go, and the timer is against you" ("look for the entrance on the building of lights. We are 300 paces to the right of that") "Great, I know the building, now WHICH Right are they referring to" style of getting lost (with a timer counting down).
[/quote]
This swings back to the issues of "actual live camera Vs pre made scene to be played when needed" (and hence why I tend to prefer "static image" over "fully 3d rendered live view port at a high enough screen resolution to make out details").
Mission locations can actually help in this part though, especially if a *chain* of missions leads you through one sub area of the map in its first stages. You can still randomise the mission locations, but just keep them more constrained (ie: Missions involving X boss / contact *would generally* be in the same small region of the map). At least this would get you to know *that* sub area of the map relatively well. Finish up with that area, move to the next chain and so on and so forth.
Its why fixed point missions are *useful* as well. Yes, they can get boring on repeat play throughs, but hell, there are times in Final Fantasy 14 (I have a level capped on all classes character), where I go "I have no bloody idea of where you are talking about" when other people go "Oh its XXXX location". But on a *new* playthrough, I find that the "being led by the nose" helped me remember more of major locations. Especially when it comes to the fact that on my main Character I have flying in all zones, and *from above* there is a lot that you miss from being *down low* (and vice versa actually). It is almost like you have 2 different sets of way points that you may mark for yourself.
This also helps for people coming back from a break as well. If you keep the locations *relatively* static, when they come back they get prompted to just remember *one* area at a time instead of having encyclopedic knowledge of the entire zone(s).
Hmm. Good point. And the response time needed to be able to call it up, dismiss it, call it up and dismiss it could place high demands as well.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Great idea!
I'd like to see some places in Titan City are actually known by their addresses. Atlanta has three buildings on Peachtree Ave, for instance, that are best known by their addresses as well as One Park Tower, etc. Then there are things like the mayor's house, or police HQ that might be known by their addresses. In NRD there could be a building or group of buildings known by their address, such as 1 Infinite Loop in Cupertino, CA.
As an aside, 200 Calendron in Boston and 875 North Michigan in Chicago both used to be known as John Hancock buildings... curious. I wonder if Titan City should have a building known by an address and say that it used to be named after American Revolutionary John Hancock as a nod to this curious coincidence.
And then there are streets that are just famous in their own rights: Broadway and Wall Street and 5th Avenue come to mind, as do intersections like Haight & Ashbury or even Time's Square which have both given their names to entire neighborhoods.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.