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If they have a tiny NPC hero/villain I want to also be able to make a tiny hero/villain.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
That's Atomac! Has the power to shrink and embiggen. Definitely a cool idea unless he suddenly goes super-size.
"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
"One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon
Just like Stretchy powers, Growth and Shrinking may not be possible with current game technology. That's why I think this should just be a fun iconic contact.
The tiny guy won't go on missions with you...he would just give them out.
Champions Online has this just FYI. I can’t remember the guy’s name.
Tiny Elvis!
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tiny-elvis/n10277
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Champions has growth abilities at least, they're not powers but some are tied to powers.
It could be done as part of attack animations so people wouldn't be running around giant or tiny. Probably capping height at something relatively unimpressive indoors so you have less chance of people growing through ceilings and such.
Though they could add tertiary powers that allow a player to grow and/or shrink, have them not be usable in combat possibly giving them some sort of effects if you approach a group of enemies with them on, shrinking granting a stealth effect and growth giving a debuffs to your foes as they tremble in fear.
I'm not sure how on the technical side of things, but an older game managed it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I stand corrected.
Still, this would be a cool guy to get missions from.
I doubt it could be done easily in the open world, though I could be wrong about that.
Running a mission where you get shrunk and then end up in an instance where everything is scaled-up enormously and you'd fight giant versions of small animals and insects would be cool!
No idea how difficult that would be.
I remember CO having a mission like that but the map was of normal scale and all the walls skinned to look like pieces of cardboard taped together and it was filled with enormous versions of common objects like pens and phones.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Yeah, Champions had a mission where you got tiny. It'd probably be pretty easy to do as all you're trying to do is create the illusion that you are small.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
It would be really fun to have missions based around that. Have the enemies be normally small things (ants?) and the instance can look like the sets from honey I shrunk the kids.
Same goes for missions in reverse where you battle it out with giant monsters one on one.
Hm. On that note they could have growth/shrinking hero/villain paths. That way you get the illusion of playing a character that can grow and/or shrink without the need to make any kind of animations for it.
Though I would like to see a shrinking effect for a stealth power. You use the power it played an animation that looks like your character is rapidly shrinking, then you're just stealthed as normal.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I... uhm... what? That is not the understanding I have of what paths are going to be used for. The impression I have is that they are supposed to be the major moral/ethical path a character starts at, their main "goal" (for a lack of a better term) in life and how they reach said "goal", not anything to do with or relating to powers.
Ohh, would love that.
Shrink-ray makes Ants dangerous.
And patches of fungus.
Smokin' with the Catterpillar
Be Well!
Fireheart
Well paths also emulate a certain type of hero/villain. North paths are your Supermans and your Dr. Dooms, the big, larger than life heroes and villains. The south paths are your street level crime busters and crime lords.
Surely with that structure they could have one that operates with "you have growing and/or shrinking powers, will you use it for good or ill?"
Same as they could have paths that have your character take a more Oracle/Calculator role.
In their basic state paths are just mission chains that offer you choices on how your character acts. So within that basic framework they can do all sorts of things.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You do have a point. Re-reading the whole news post about paths again the closest I could find a statement "against" this was that the writers of path would have to write them in a way where know almost nothing about the player choosing it so it doesn't directly exclude the option for such a path in the end. Though when they refer to "type of hero/villain" in regards to paths I think they focus more on their personality, morality, goals, and/or ethics rather than specific powers, but we'll see where they'll take this path system.
Though in reality I don't think you can make a realistic implementation of a size-shifting path without actually scaling the player (at least visually) or assuming that they will be able to affect other players along with themselves which will lead to two issues as I see it, they will only use the grow/shrink ability on their path-specific missions and anyone tagging along on said missions will also grow/shrink along with the mission holder.
I meant handling shrinking and growing via the missions, instead of via a character power, since it might be easier to implement that way. Design the props and general look of the instance so that you feel tiny without changing your character at all. If you're standing next to a shoe and it is the size of a city bus, you feel tiny.
Mechanically it doesn't change anything, it is purely a job for the art and mission content creators.
This means anyone could have fun doing size change stuff based on the story it relates to no matter what character they are and eliminates any problems that size change would have in regular content. The downside is it would be limited to that specific content, but honestly that just makes it feel that much more unique. That isn't a bad thing.
Yes Janitor I fully agree with your premise in that if it's an external source and specific to missions then that can work perfectly well, and I hope we will get in some form. Would be nice to a few series maybe even a saga or two contain it, perhaps even have it as the main premise for that series/saga.
However PH suggested a Path in which growing/shrinking is the "main power" of the super and that would need to have actual growing/shrinking showing outside of the path missions, as well as handle other supers that accompany the one having this path on their path specific missions. That one is much much less workable
The latter part of having people along for the ride isn't such a big deal. The Atom has on occasion shrunk some other people down with him.
And I don't see why you'd need to show the power outside the path missions. It'd be nice, but not necessary. It'd be nice to just have growing and shrinking powers/animations but if that's not possible then this is an alternative. It'd allow you to play a hero that can be big and/or small without having to really add anything.
If they made an Oracle/Calculator path you wouldn't really expect to do that stuff outside the missions that deal with it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I'm confused why they couldn't make a modifier that affects all body parts and costume pieces the same? If everything has the LxWxH dimensions then why couldn't you apply a constant variable? isn't that what they already do via the height/size slider?
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Trouble arises when you're giant in an indoor map, you'd be annoying to allies because you'd be hard to see/target around, head and/or most of your body would be sticking through the ceiling, etc.
If you're small you'd be hard to target unless your hitbox stays the same. Which is why I suggested just making shrinking an animation option for stealth.
The actual making a character giant or tiny isn't really the issue it's all the problems that come with having a character that big or small.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
You don’t need to allow someone to grow indoors. MMOs have been smart enough to know how to keep someone from getting on a mount indoors for more than a decade, you can do the same for growth.
Which is one of the troubles with allowing growth powers in a game like CoT.
Power is growth but you can't do it like 50% of the time.
So you let them grow indoors and it causes problems. Don't let them grow indoors and people will complain. You can't really win with it.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Yeah honestly I think it’s too much of a fringe thing to make it worth it. It’s hard to integrate into the game and I don’t see too many people clamoring for it.
Some powers are just too hard to make work properly. Phasing? So you can just walk through all walls and obstacles? Good luck making a lair people with phasing, super speed and invisibility can get through in a few seconds.
I think the better idea is to grow to the size of an ogre or a horse rather than the size of a building, less ant man turning giant in an airport and more bruce banner turning into the hulk
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
That could likely be done with just a costume change, depending on how big a character can be made.
I'm Champions Online you could be like 2-3 stories tall if not more. Couldn't hold it for long, but you could be that tall.
There's not much point in having growth powers if you can't get -BIG-
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Hey Hulk's pretty big isn't he?
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
I assume “Hulk size” is a character creation aesthetic option, not a power.
In the comics he's apparently about 7ft tall. Or about 7-8ft... So not that tall. Tall for a person, not tall for a super.
For a growth hero they should at minimum be like 2x taller than most people, like at the very least 12ft. I'd prefer closer to 20ft for a minimum. So like, about 3-4 people tall.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
The primary objection I have against it is that it wouldn't really be "my power", outside of the mission I select to do I wouldn't have any control over how and why it is used. If a path dictates that a power is an essential part of my character then I want to be able to use it outside of path-missions.
As for Oracle/Calculator type paths they don't revolve around a specific power and thus any other missions can be seen as "side jobs" whereas path-mission are your "main job", and you don't need to (and maybe perhaps even don't want to do) your main-job activities on side-jobs due to certain obligations. On the other hand dialog options can still be made in such a way that it gives the illusion for "main-job activities" outside of path-missions, that is much harder to do when it revolves around a power that effectively changes ones basic interaction with the world around them.
The easiest way to handle that is that the path missions are the only missions you do that -require- you to go big or small. For everything else your hero can handle it without needing to use their power.
It's not a perfect solution. The whole reasoning behind making growth/shrinking a path would be for if they can't, for whatever reason, implement growth and shrinking powers/aesthetics into the game. If the options are get to be giant on only certain missions that revolve around your hero being a giant guy or not being able to be a giant guy at all. Having the option seems way better than just not.
Of course -if- we can have growing/shrinking powers/aesthetics then this is all rather moot as there'd be no need to give characters the illusion of being able to grow or shrink because we could just do it.
I'd much rather have a whole mission chain that revolves around my hero's supposed ability to become huge and/or tiny than not be able to have any way to represent that character type or to have just certain missions where everyone and anyone can be huge or tiny.
Another way I can think to represent the powerset outside of said proposed path is to get a power/item that allows you to grow and/or shrink but doesn't allow it to be used indoors or in combat. Then you could at least stand around all huge outside.
Again none of the options are perfect but remember this is just for if growth/shrinking powers/aesthetics can not be done for whatever reason. If the team literally can not or will not make people be able to become huge/tiny then the only other option I see is to have a mission chain that gives you the illusion of it. Something is better than nothing.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Look at it a different way. Growing/shrinking can be part of the story, not inherently part of the character. If you work with a certain wizard or mad scientist you can do missions where you are huge or tiny. It is a part of your experience if you choose to go that way.
It would make for some very unique and interesting content and completely avoid the problems of extremely tiny or giant characters. One thing a game like CoT needs to stand out is interesting content. If we're honest with ourselves, a huge amount of content from the old CoX days was just "go into another warehouse and punch random mooks". Having a handful of tiny missions and a handful of giant missions would be a great way to spice things up.
E: One way you could do grow/shrink powers as an aesthetic for a main power set and be useable everywhere is if it didn't change most of your model and/or only affected you momentarily during a power animation. Someone already mentioned shrinking as an aesthetic replacement for stealth (could be used for other things too, dodge buff?), without changing your actual hitbox (you would still need a way for other friendly players to easily see you).
For growth powers as attacks you could have specific parts of the model grow and deform for specific attack animations. Have an arm or foot become massive for a second to deliver a smack and then go back to normal. Remember Battletoads?
After writing that I realized how much I want to play a Battletoads style character now.
I'd rather have it be a possible character option than have my hero be some NPCs lackey.
Having missions that involve your hero being grown or shrunk (possibly even done so maliciously) is fine. But it's no substitute for being able to play a hero who has that ability.
I'm asking for Ant Man, you're saying "Why not just be The Atom's helper?"
Again it's fine to have missions where you are just helping an NPC but I'd rather be Ant Man.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Fair enough. Perhaps we could get both!
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Open gateway, fall down a rathole, enter an instance where scales are vastly different from normal, tiny/huge toons adventure is go!
Be Well!
Fireheart