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I think the Batman department needs to be reined in... (SPOILERS)

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RolandGrey
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I think the Batman department needs to be reined in... (SPOILERS)

So, I just got done reading two arcs of Batman from the Rebirth series.

I find it odd how no matter what is happening in DC, Batman seems to always be off in his own little world, even when it's established he's still a part of the rest of the DC world.

*SPOILERS*

So, we had "I Am Gotham," where a pair of kids get Superman-like powers at the cost of their lives and try to be superheroes in Gotham City. They want to help the man who inspired them, the man who once saved both of them. Batman has trepidation about taking on new proteges, largely because Tim recently died (as far as he knows, it's one of those "never found the body" moments, but an entire tower collapsing under him has left Bruce pretty sure about Tim's fate), but he can't deny the power of these two, nor the benefit they could pose to the city. Heck, they saved his life when he was about to die trying to glide a jetliner into Gotham harbor.

Well, things happen and there are consequences that the Gotham siblings weren't ready for. The brother loses his mind and goes on a rampage, eventually beating Batman nearly to death. Enter Superman and the Justice League, and they proceed to beat Gotham but good. Eventually, he burns out, and his sister (already a victim of the Psycho Pirate) breaks mentally. Duke Thomas takes the time to try to rehabilitate Gotham Girl, being a friend she needs at a time when the rest of the Bat Family is too busy to bother. He and Alfred work very hard to help her, but Batman knows that he can't risk her suddenly breaking further and going on the same rampage her brother did. So, he recruits Catwoman and a couple Joker-lite villains to help him raid Santa Prisca and Bane's fortress to kidnap the Psycho Pirate so he can undo what he did to Gotham Girl.

Already we're treading into poor storytelling territory. The justification is that Batman doesn't want to risk the Robins anymore, but he also wouldn't be one to turn to criminals to aid him.

Long story short, they defeat and humiliate Bane, who had recently gotten off of Venom because he realized it was doing long-term damage to his body. In the arc "I Am Bane," Bronze Tiger shows up in an attempt to kidnap Psycho Pirate and return him to Bane. Batman stops him, but Tiger explains he was doing it more to keep Bane from going to Arkham, because he knows the pain of Venom withdrawal, and that's what Bane was using Psycho Pirate to undo. Bane was on Venom MUCH longer than Bronze Tiger, so the effects were that much worse. He warns Batman of the coming threat and moves on.

Now, the poor storytelling starts to go into overdrive. After a well-written bit featuring the Robins bantering with each other in a Batman-themed McDonald's, Bruce warns the boys to leave Gotham. They, of course, elect to ignore his advice, with Duke being the only one voicing any kind of reason (along the lines of "He sounds scared, guys. Maybe you should listen to him for once."). The next scene features Duke and Alfred guiding Gotham Girl out of her apartment to take her to Arkham and see the Psycho Pirate so he can un-brainwash her. Outside the building, they find the Robins hanging.

...What? We never get to see the fight between the Robins and Bane. How? How does Bane know where Gotham Girl lives? Why? Why would he hang the Robins THERE of all places?

Cut to the Fortress of Solitude, where Superman has put the Dick, Jason and Damian in rejuvenation pods. He then suggests to Batman that he should just take care of Bane for him and be done with it. But Batman, despite his "very genuine fear" declines the offer. He then has Clark promise to keep the boys in the Fortress while he returns to Gotham to finish things with Bane. Again, he recruits Catwoman. Duke is captured alongside Commissioner Gordon and Catwoman shortly after that and we learn Bane is back on Venom and very angry that he's been forced to feed his addiction. What follows is a surprisingly cerebral moment where Batman makes it clear that he and Selina planned that part so Selina could take out Bane's goons.

While Alfred threatens the Psycho Pirate with a gun to his head in order to fix Gotham Girl (getting a bit too far, but considering how they've been treating the girl, it's somewhat understandable), Batman confronts Bane... Kind of...

Again, we slide into poor writing territory, as Batman unleashes EVERY criminal in Arkham that is even slightly amicable to him. Two Face, Mr. Freeze, Solomon Grundy... Calendar Man? What? Why would Batman do this? Why would he let these people out, and why would they believe he has ANY clout to help them with their sentences? Worse, Bane basically stomps through them like the parody video The Slap 2, where a British guy just smacks his way through his friends, family, neighbors and cops. He even effortlessly smashes his way through Solomon Grundy (though, like the Robins, we don't get to SEE this happen, just the aftermath), who is currently in his Undead Incredible Hulk size.

Finally, we get the fight with Batman. We're expecting a cerebral battle like we saw earlier with how he let himself get beat up so Catwoman could defeat Bane's goons and free Duke and Gordon. Instead we get... Batman just... Standing there... And letting Bane wail on him. Over and over and over again. During all of it, Batman has a ghost conversation with his mother for some dumb reason that culminates in an "I AM BATMAN!" moment where he headbutts Bane on the bridge of his nose and knocks him out.

Bane's been SHOT before and that didn't slow him down. What the Hell is going on!?

Batman proposes to Selina after realizing he couldn't have succeeded without her help. This has apparently been going on since the comic where they had sex on the roof during New 52 (because despite the revamps and retcons, the Batman story never stops, never reverts; what happened in the past still happened, with all the camp, darkness and ridiculousness that entails, all operating on Marvel's "Just a few years ago..." concept of time), Batman silently mulling over how he feels about Selina in each arc, finally culminating in this marriage proposal.

The next arc is what inspired me to write this... I won't go over so many details because there's really only one: The War of Jokes and Riddles.

Batman tells Selina about his second year as a caped crimefighter, the War of Jokes and Riddles. In it, Joker hasn't been able to laugh and the Riddler has decided to take on this puzzle. He makes a deal with Joker, he'll make him laugh, and to do that, he suggests they hold a competition to see who can kill Batman.

Somehow... This leads to ALL of the different Batman villains picking a side between these two. Penguin, Two Face, Deadshot, Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Kite Man (he actually serves an important role in the events), Poison Ivy... Defying every facet of personality each character possesses, they all pick a side between Joker and Riddler. It culminates in Batman joining sides with Riddler, they use Kite Man to break into Joker's last stronghold, and Kiteman betrays Riddler because Riddler poisoned his son, sending all of Riddler's side hurtling into the sky with the modified gliders Kite Man gave them.

Then the other shoe falls, Riddler demands to know why Joker STILL isn't laughing. All of the planning, all of the work, he even poisoned Kite Man's son JUST so Kite Man would be there for this moment, JUST to betray Riddler at his moment of triumph, so Riddler would be undone by KITE MAN, the loser of the criminal world in Gotham City. And Joker still doesn't laugh.

But Batman gets pissed. He takes up one of Joker's knives and goes to stab Riddler, because he's so pissed off that Riddler had the audacity to murder a little boy just to make this lunatic laugh.

Joker saves Riddler's life, letting Batman stab him through the hand rather than let Riddler die. He then starts laughing hysterically.

Because... Apparently this whole arc was to explain Joker's obsession with "Driving Batman over the edge."

This arc is ridiculous. The criminals are acting WAY out of character in picking sides. Some of them, logically, SHOULDN'T EVEN BE THERE (Two Face, Deathstroke; remember, this is supposed to be taking place in Batman's SECOND year as a crimefighter). Also, Batman didn't try to kill Riddler EARLIER for killing a little boy (something Riddler repeatedly gloats about throughout the arc).

And it all boils down to the fact that nobody ever seems to tell the Bat Department at DC that they need to stop, that they need to take stock of the story they're telling. In I Am Bane, Batman's supposed to be smarter than that, the Robins are supposed to be better than that, and Bane is supposed to do more than thuggishly swat his way through his foes.

And The War of Jokes and Riddles... It's just dumb. It's ludicrous from page 1.

This has been eating at my brain since I read the trade paperbacks, and I just needed to share my pain somewhere. Thank you for letting me vent.

Project_Hero
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Eeeesh. Bat writing happens.

Eeeesh. Bat writing happens. Hopefully Batman can get back to fighting his true enemy... ROCK AND ROLL!

[img]https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2014/05/batman-fortunate-son.png[/img]

Edit: "Bat" up there is supposed to be "bad" but I'ma leave it because pun.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Brand X
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Writers tend to come in and

Writers tend to come in and suck. They have a need to rewrite a character, either to put their own touch on the character, or they thought it's how the character should've been all along.

They're of course limited to some degrees, but given just enough to screw stuff up.

Project_Hero
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Could be worse. It could be

Could be worse. It could be Frank Miller's ASBAR.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

BiotopeZ
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I think the problem is that

I think the problem is that Bat-fans always give it a pass. I've never seen anything like it in any other fandom. They're the least critical of their own franchise that I've ever seen.

Sure, it's possible to be TOO critical of your favorite thing. I've seen overly picky fans basically force their own franchise to end. However, being completely passive and taking anything you're handed is just as bad because it results in a non-stop decline in quality. If they can get away with feeding you a plate of poo just because it has a bat symbol on it, then why would they bother going through the trouble of cooking a steak?

Brand X
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They're the least critical,

They're the least critical, because they have to be, if they want to accept Batman standing toe to toe with the big guns.

Once they let that pass, everything else is easy to pass.

Batman could be the number 1 hand to hand fighter in the DC universe, and it wouldn't mean anything if he's still Batman and he's going one on one with Superman or Wonder Woman.

RolandGrey
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My concern is the fact that

My concern is the fact that the Bat Department seems to be able to dictate to the rest of DC how Batman is handled in a title, and they can be VERY critical, very strict... And the stories come out very good. The Superman Rebirth arcs with Batman in them are Batman at some of his best (as they're largely comparative of Superman and Batman's parenting/training styles). But when they're writing Batman's own works... They go wildly off the rails and have him doing things that conflict with the setting's history and his own past behavior.

Oh, and to add weirdness... I told the I Am Bane story to a coworker... His reaction to how Batman handled Bane? "Awesome!" Some people just don't think about it. But like Linkara said, these stories are a part of our culture. They really should care.

DesViper
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Anyone got a TL;DR for me?

Anyone got a TL;DR for me?

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[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
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RolandGrey
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I Am Bane TL;DR: Bane comes

I Am Bane TL;DR: Bane comes to Gotham (again), makes short work of the Robins, half the criminals in Arkham (because Bats let them out to slow him down) and then Bats proceeds to "out-tough" Bane before delivering ONE headbutt to put the big, Venom-soaked bastard down.

War of Jokes and Riddles TL;DR: Bruce tells Selina a story about his second year as Batman. Riddler and Joker are fighting each other and ALL of the Batman Rogues Gallery, even ones who didn't exist yet or would logically NEVER side with either one, have picked sides between them to fight for the right to be the One Who Kills Batman. Batman eventually sides with Riddler, Kite Man ruins Riddler's plans, and Joker's obsession with making Batman "cross the line" is born of witnessing him try to kill Riddler because of what he did to Kiteman's son.

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So Batman sided with Riddler

So Batman sided with Riddler's side and they didn't just automatically turn on him? I mean the whole point was to take him down, right? He joins your side, you play nice for a moment then BAM! Bullet to the head. Bat problem solved.

Then you send joker an easy riddle of "Guess who just killed Batman?" Done.

But seriously Batman should have kept out of it, when the bad guys throw down stick to the edges and take down as many on both sides as possible in the confusion of a battle.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

RolandGrey
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My point is that they were

My point is that they were poorly written arcs, but the people behind protecting Batman's brand are more focused on bullying animators and authors of other books than they are making sure their own output is top quality.