Below is a “stream of consciousness” rambling collection of my thoughts, ideas & suggestions regarding CoT. Yes, they should probably be split across several posts and threads. Yes, they could be better organised. Unfortunately, it’s lunchtime in the office so I’ve let my mind wander and posted this at the top to give some (any) form of context.
Travel Powers: (I’d like my chosen one by I leave Tutorial, or reach the Tutorial finishing level if I skip Tutorial. I’d really like it from the start, like in DCUO)
Flight. Multiple poses please.
Superspeed: Running up walls please and across water please.
Leaping: Include wallcrawling please, so I don’t plummet if leap ends on a wall.
Swinging: Include wallcrawling please, so I can get to swinging height in the first place. Add gliding capability too, so I can leave go of swingline mid-air and land safely.
Teleportation: Don’t let me land in mid-air. It’s embarrassing. The CO “short term invisible flight” version had its merits, but I’d rather go with choosing a landing point and insta-zapping to it. Thoughts on animations later. Using it to bring teammates or enemies to me is also desirable.
Tunnelling: Teleporting with different animation. No emerging from tunnel in mid-air. Looks silly.
Superswimming: Involves arguments involving water-breathing as a power, how long someone can hold their breath etc. Would need underwater missions for me to consider it worth looking at, but what use is it anywhere else? Maybe one for a post-launch update.
Defenses:
Energy/Endurance Defence: Obviously only useful if you have energy/endurance points to use/lose.
Health Defence: Can’t see players not having life points, so this is necessary.
If have Endurance and Health, then could defend as follows:
• Endurance Defence: X Points subtracted from each Endurance Reducing Attack/Debuff. Half as much subtracted from Health Reducing Attack/Debuff.
• Health Defence: X Points subtracted from each Health Reducing Attack/Debuff. Half as much subtracted from Endurance Reducing Attack/Debuff.
On me, part of me or part of costume. No other visuals needed. If I want visible armour, my avatar will wear armour. If I want a forcefield, I’ll give it an aura. If I consider it a form of invulnerability, it gets no visual, or I have green skin (or similar) Have it as a permanent (but enhanceable power). If buffing someone else, use a bubble or an aura-like effect. They’ll know buff gone when effect goes.
If not using Endurance, and just using power recharge times, then Health Defence only affects damage targeted at Health and Endurance Defence replaced by buffs that increase recharge time. Again, no visuals required unless buffing someone else.
Regeneration: Speeded up healing times. Only question is how much faster, and can you enhance/debuff it?
Heal Self/Heal Other: If only using Health, then it returns a certain amount of Health to target. If using Endurance, then it returns a certain amount of Endurance to target too.
Buffs/Debuffs: If it can be used, allow it to be enhanced or hampered. Increase/Decrease accuracy, range or damage. Turn a travel power off or increase its speed and/or range. Allow people to buff themselves, and buff or debuff others. Some may choose only to affect themselves. Others may design a hero/villain that does nothing but buff and/or debuff others.
Healing by Harming: This allows the user to choose 2 targets. One target is healed by Health than is stolen from the other. I’d make this a high level power or – if you want it as a starting power – make it less effective at healing than a pure healing power, (Say 67% as effective), to compensate for the damage it is also doing.
Animations:
Flight poses would be fun; stops us all flying like the Big Blue Schoolboy.
A spray effect (using appropriate particles) would work for Superspeed. (Dust if on land. Spray if running on water. Same physics, different visuals)
I’d suggest a Fade-out/Fade-in animation for Teleportation; maybe allow player the choice of colour(s). Other animations could be post-launch add-ons.
Two animations spring to mind for Tunnelling; for players, a dive in (like diving into water, but with Earth particles flying up instead of water droplets. Again, same physics different visuals) and a leap out (like a penguin going from sea to land, but much more graceful). For zombies, and other tunnelling bots, a digging motion to tunnel slowly into the earth and - for coming out of the ground – a cracking of the surface followed by the bot slowly pulling itself out and to its feet.
For creatures coming out of the water, (like Fishmen), use a variation on the above. Have ripples appear instead of cracks. Have the fishman then go into the treading water animation, rather than climbing on top of the water only to drop back in again.
Area of Effect animations; make them spherical but have the ground hide the bottom half. That way they look hemispherical on the ground, but aren’t bizarrely hemispherical in mid-air or while treading water.
Invisibility:
Essentially a Stealth buff and Perception debuff with a see through avatar. Having it reduce speed, and break when taking/inflicting damage may be annoying, but are traditional (especially for PvP). I’d give it duration too, especially if usable on others.
Holds and Area of Effect Powers:
A Hold is a Travel debuff that has an accompanying animation effect. These can be AoE or single target. Whether Held target can use attack powers is open for much debate.
AoE can be centred on a target – or patch of floor – at range, or centred around self. Being able to centre a radius effect damaging power on a teammate, without damaging them or other teammates, would be great. Duration should be buffable, and possibly debuffable.
Falling damage:
For the sheer fun of it, I’d split this between PvP and PvE.
In PvP everyone takes falling damage. It makes knocking a speedster off a wall or deactivating Flight while your target is mid-air into a valid combat tactic.
In PvE, only the bots take falling damage. It means the player has the tactical advantage; both sides can use the same tactics, but the player benefits more.
Sidekicking & Exemplaring: A big ‘Yes’ to both!
Team Sizes:
Obviously there has to be a maximum team size, but what should it be? 4, 6, 8 or more? I’d go for something like this:
• 8 Non-Pet Users.
• 6 Non-Pet Users & 1 Pet User.
• 5 Non-Pet Users & 2 Pet Users.
• 4 Non-Pet Users & 3 Pet Users.
• 3 of each.
This is not designed to annoy Pet Users, although it undoubtedly will. It’s to cut down on lag etc. If each Pet User had 4 Pets, you’d be looking at possibly 7 Players and 12 Pets on the screen, plus enemy bots. If it was a PvP team match, you’d be looking at possibly 7 Players and 12 Pets per side.
Pets:
Shy bairns get nae cake. (Translation: Shy children get no cake. Meaning: If you don’t ask, you’ll probably never get. Yes, I can translate Geordie into English)
I’ve no doubt that Mastermind lovers will be a trifle miffed at not having their Pet User & Pets at launch. I had a necromancer in CoV. MMs are great, but they are resource heavy as I’ve no doubt the Devs will point out (if they haven’t already).
However, by cutting down on certain things, it may be possible to bring them in faster. May. I’m no programmer. If I was I’d have offered to help.
If you only allow a MM to summon pets when they have a target lock on a foe, then you prevent the issue of pets standing idly around or chasing the MM across town. If the MM is careful about target selection then this shouldn’t be too painful. Maybe.
Locking Pets onto one target, then attacking another yourself is a valid tactical choice. Having your Pets in Passive or Aggressive Mode is also a tactical choice. Removing Aggressive would force you to select their target all the time, which would be a pain but may cut down on programming time. Again, that’s a ‘may’. The enemy bots target players as part of their programming. Would the only difference with Pets be that they had to know which bots to target next? (“Zombody, stop eating the bystanders! Attack the [Insert actual target here]”)
Giving them an idle duration may also be beneficial. For example, the Pets vanish after X seconds with no valid target.
It would mean they could only sensibly be summoned just prior to combat, and would only remain X seconds after the combat ended. (If using recharge times, then be careful when planning how/when to attack multiple mobs)
If the type of pets was limited, then this would cut down on programming time too. It would also cut down on arrival/departure/attack animations. You could start with robots, zombies and wolves; with other options being added at various post-launch intervals. You could also limit them to ‘melee’ attacks only to start with. (Robot: Punch. Zombie: Claw. Wolf: Bite) Ranged attacks could come at higher levels, as post-launch add-ons or both.
As much as I’d love MMs at the start, I can’t see it happening, but ‘MM-Lite’ may speed things up.
Arch-Enemies:
While CO didn’t get this totally right, hats off for the effort & showing it can be done. You need not start the game with Arch-Enemy specific missions. You could design one – after you’ve done your own avatar – then have it introduced to the game world at a later date. Maybe it could ally itself initially to whichever Faction you upset sufficiently first; appearing as a Big Bad at the end of a Faction mission. For example:
My Hero Alt, Greywalker, has really upset the Black Rose. He foils their plans and attacks their mobs more often than any other. (Maybe I patrol their territory more, who knows) The alignment system means that they’ll start returning the favour. Maybe with a random mob attack. Maybe with a random mob attack accompanied by my Arch Enemy; Darkwalker. Maybe, if I do an instanced mission against the Black Rose, Darkwalker is the end of mission Big Bad. Not because he is a member of the Black Rose, but because the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
My Villain Alt, Obsidian Omega, has upset the TCPD. He could be on the receiving end of random arrest attempts, or maybe have a SWAT Team guest star in an instanced bank raid.
In case you’re wondering what would happen without an Arch Enemy; the end of instance Big Bad would be a bot associated with the Faction opposing you in the instance. The Arch Enemy replaces it for a bit of personal colour, that’s all.
Missions specifically against your Arch Enemy could come in at higher levels and/or as post –launch add ons. They could be added to Jailbreak attempts too; randomly, so other folks can fight with or against them if you don’t happen to be there. After all, they’re a skin and a powerset; just like any other super-bot.
Tutorials: I like them, but please don't make it compulsory.
Anyway, long lunch over. Hello long afternoon :(
Later all! :)
I can think of two times when you might want to be able to teleport to mid-air.
One is when you don't have line of sight to the ground where you want to be, so you designate a spot above it (maybe on a wall just behind, maybe on the ceiling?) and drop to your goal.
The other is for an attack. In the RP forums here I've seen at least one instance (not counting when my character did it ^_^) of a [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/49745#comment-49745]teleporter finishing his port above his target for a "death from above" style attack[/url]. And if you're playing a melee character and fighting a flyer, teleporting up to your target and whacking him on the way down is a classic move. In the game, I think these would be best as part of a teleport-animated lunge attack, with other animations for those with other travel powers (nod to Lin Chiao Feng's [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/39386#comment-39386]Ninja SAM![/url])
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Fair points, Foradain. I hadn't considered the first option, and I wasn't sure about the second. Did that actually work in CoX? If so, way cool & yes please to that in CoT.
I was thinking more of a friend of mine who seemed persistently unable to teleport from rooftop to rooftop without actually missing! (Even though he was choosing his landing)
As a flyboy, I found it funny to watch; unless we were on route to a mission door. Teleport -miss - fall - take massive damage - aggro mob - respawn. Funny the first time.
Not so much after that.
All my info about CoX is second hand, but there are several powers in CO that let a melee character close with and whack his enemy. Functionally, each of those several powers is the same (character moves to within melee range of target and whacks) but the animations are different, depending on which powerset supplied that version.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Not specific to anything you said, but following the thread in the spirit of random thoughts about CoT that I can't think of anywhere else to put:
I had a moment tonight.
I realized that I am truly, truly grateful that CoT is dedicated to staying close to their CoH roots and being a true spiritual successor.
I was playing DCUO and came to the same moment that I had come to months earlier in Champions that made me leave them for DCUO--I just didn't want to play any more.
No matter how much I wanted to want to play--and I really, really wanted to--eventually, with both of them, I just wasn't having fun any more.
I never came to that point with CoH. Yes, I was a casual player and I went through phases where I played more and less, but CoH NEVER stopped being fun for me. And, while I'm an old coot, my son is 18 and he plays all the new Playstation games, but he grew up on CoH and he feels the same way--he played Champions and DCUO with me and wanted to like them too--but, in the end he told me he really just wants CoH back.
Anyway, at first, when I heard that CoT was going to stick close to CoH, I was worried if that was a good idea for the long-term success of the game because so much progress has been made in gaming since CoH. Champions and DCUO both have some great features, and some things they do better than CoH, and DCOU looks great.
But somehow, they just don't WORK as a game the way CoH did. And in CoH we got to enjoy a game that had actually been developed and had time to mature--something that seems rarer and rarer these days.
So, I'm done done worrying about the viability of it. Move the things forward to the next logical step that need to be moved forward and drop the few things that really didn't work, but don't fix what's not broken--if we can't bring CoH back, let's reincarnate it.
And let's find a way to keep it alive so we can enjoy a mature, developed game down the road. With the bleeding edge engine it's being built with from a company that will keep making engines we can port to, we could actually go way past the eight years we got in Paragon City.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
++++1111 ;)
Void Shift! It's the teleport lunge. I love it! I use it on my main as a sudden burst of speed, like in anime fights, where they're not super speedsters really, but just have that sudden burst of speed. Love it so much! :)
Yes! I think one of the things about CoH I loved was no shared cooldown but all the powers had a cooldown!
Some thought that made the game to slow to begin with, and maybe it did, but CoH had it to where people would get to the point that they could just attack non-stop through enough +Recharge and a few attacks or grab enough attacks to keep on attacking. All you had to do was learn how to control your energy, through either Stamina, Endurance Reduction, or a combination of both!
Even now, when I see people complain about CoH feeling slow because of how that energy use was, I laugh and say, then you obviously didn't play the game. It wasn't hard to get to a point of not worrying about one's energy. Yes, it might take to getting to some levels, but those where generally the low levels.
CoH was just "the MMO" for me. Even when I'd try a new one, it never lasted, and when I would try them, I never left CoH (stayed sub, still played it, I just played multiple MMOs).
I never realised how important that was for my enjoyment till I tried a game with a global cooldown. I don't mind not being able to use Power A if I still have B, C, and D to choose from while A recharges. And shared cooldown is even worse when it comes to a game's version of insps. :-o
Agreed. And when you did get past that difficult spot you knew that you had "made it" -- you could feel your character growing in power. This was even more pronounced if your power set had an End drain or Hibernate-type power.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I can understand the inspiration side, although at least in the MMO's that I have spent time in, the "other games versions" of inspirations were the potions, and (depends on game) you were limited to using it once per combat.
Just wondering but what MMO have you played where "using X" locked out B, C and D? I can understand one or two abilities *possibly* sharing a cooldown (I believe that in WoW with the warrior, when you change stance there are abilities that you *cannot* jump to because ability B is the equivalent of ability A in a different stance.
I have noticed though that MMO's in *general* now seem to be heading towards the "shorter" cooldown time frames for most abilities, and that the "longer cooldown" (ie 3+ minute ones) are the "oh crap" buttons (this is for combat abilities, not the "TP back to base/housing/next mission" type of abilities).
Anyway, to me at least, the GCD is there to stop the sub 1 second animating abilities from be spammed as fast as their animation allows. It is something that can also be tweaked according to classes as well (If i remember correctly, the Haste stat in WoW reduces the GCD timer from 1.5 seconds downwards.
For CoX, sometimes I wish that there was a method of making the animations for abilities *faster* (ie so you could get more abilities off in X period of time, if the abilities were available to use).
The GCD is how other MMO's tend to do it when "animation duration" is not typically taken into consideration for ability power.
Depending on the game, the same can happen as well... especially when you get over the edge, and you *finally* get everything running smoothly for you.
Everyone is bringing up great points.
A big part of what I think made CoH really work as a game is that the Devs had either the genius, courage or naivete--or some mad combination of the three--to assume that since the Superhero genre was both undiscovered country and fundamentally different genre from the Sword and Sorcery MMORPG's, they should start fresh with a clean slate and think about what makes sense for a Superhero genre game rather than simply borrowing the existing Sword and Sorcery gaming conventions.
Notably, games like Champions and DCUO--instead of further developing the original ideas put forth in CoH--largely backpedaled and borrowed from Sword and Sorcery mechanics and conventions. Having played those games, I have to say I don't feel like that was a good choice. I guess the motivation was to appeal to a wider gaming audience, but I think the result was simply less original and enjoyable games overall, and also games that rang less true for their own special niche community. A double whammy--and not in a good way.
I really feel like if CoT accomplishes what they intend--to use CoH as a foundation from which to move forward logically and in that same spirit--well, I'm having a really hard time not getting all optimistic and excited :P.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
(Obviously there has to be a maximum team size, but what should it be? 4, 6, 8 or more? I’d go for something like this:
• 8 Non-Pet Users.
• 6 Non-Pet Users & 1 Pet User.
• 5 Non-Pet Users & 2 Pet Users.
• 4 Non-Pet Users & 3 Pet Users.
• 3 of each.) great points. but limited mm Giving them an idle duration may also be beneficial. For example, the Pets vanish after X seconds with no valid target.
It would mean they could only sensibly be summoned just prior to combat, and would only remain X seconds after the combat ended. (If using recharge times, then be careful when planning how/when to attack multiple mobs) mean mm need a new power to help in both pvp pve
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
[img]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/hinata1032/Kitsune.jpg[/img]
5 to 7. I wouldn't go 8, buuuut as an RPer and a SG Leader, I know how little 5 can feel to have on one team, but I do prefer the odd number and I think 5 or 7 fits the good typical super team number. Should be noted with teams being smaller than 8, it would likely be easier to build harder content for a smaller team than harder content for a bigger team.
I liked and would prefer the big eight teams in CoH, but I'd understand if we needed to go smaller at first or even in the long run if it were necessary to make the game manageable for the Devs.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I think part of the appeal of CoH gameplay was the larger possible team size, along with the upscaling of spawn size to match... On a number of teams/taskforces, this gave us the option to divide into still-effective subteams of 3-4 on occasion when the objectives allowed for it. This just created a bit of extra fun/challenge at the players' discretion. One thing I would change is the minimum team size to start taskforces. If the missions scale well from 2 to 8 team members, there's no valid reason to require a full team, or if it doesn't scale down well, a fair warning is given ("starting this TF with fewer than X players will result in higher difficulty than intended").
A team size of 8 also made it easy for a team leader to keep missions rolling while recruiting. The team might fluctuate from 5 to 8 players, but it kept going at near full speed through x8 scanner/paper missions. The leader just tossed a LFM message into zone chat between missions to refill open slots, no slowdown. Not quite as easy to do on a team or 5 or 6 that drops to 2-3...
Additionally, I'd be cautious of a reduction from 8 to 6, if task forces are sometimes intended to be multi-hour marathons. Losing 3 or 4 people from a team of 8 leaves a solid group to complete the final mission, but that same loss from a team of 6 could be unworkable. Either holding TFs to shorter times (1-2 hours, as CoH trended in later issues) or allowing the leader to refill positions left open by a quitter, would remove this objection.
I'd understand a temporary limitation below 8 to save the server hamsters from premature death, of course.