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How would YOU build: A Speedster

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Super M.
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How would YOU build: A Speedster

I'll start moving these discussions over to the general forum, from the powers forums. The first conversation about building a (various color) Lantern is here:
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/how-would-you-build-lantern
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How would YOU build: A Speedster.

From Flash to Quicksilver, speedsters are iconic comic lore. Even though most character can take super speed as a travel power, the fast attacking, quick witted speedster is a genre of its own.

With the powers out, there are a lot of ways to build the same concept, so how would you go about making a Speedster?

For this I assume the following:

Super Speed as a Travel Power is a given.
Super Agility is probably the most common Defense option (Though propose others if theyre a better fit!)
With aesthetic decoupling, I will just ASSUME that a "quick attack" looking animation will be available for most melee sets, so animation isnt important.

So what archetype and power combos appeal to you most? Why specifically?

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One of the speedsters I have

One of the speedsters I have made before was a speedster gadgeteer. Able to build devices super fast, move super fast, and all that fun stuff.

As for powerset for them either Super Agility with some sort of melee then taking devices as a tertiary, or maybe devices as a primary, then I have no idea for the rest.

Mostly I made such a character to avoid the usual melee/super agility speedster characters. Give them something different. Something new. No one just makes a flying guy, but maybe it's because super speed has a bunch of benefits beyond just getting you from A to B quickly.

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Assuming there's an aesthetic

Assuming there's an aesthetic for it, I'd say Massive Melee. A speedster may not hit has hard as some supers, but they can buzz around the battlefield hitting everyone and everything in the blink of an eye, so being able to attack large groups at once makes sense.

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I dunno... The Flash can do

I dunno... The Flash can do an infinite mass punch. That seems like a pretty heavy hit.

But I do get your point and the IMP was mentioned only in fun.

Super M.
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PH - you're not wrong though.

PH - you're not wrong though. That's actually one reason I think super strength might be viable. Lots of knock back, plus... check outthe level 7 power... quick recharge charge to enemy plus kd . Seems very speedster.

Also neat alternate idea with the tech speedster. I wonder if a range speedster with a throwing type aesthetic would work.

Bio - I agree with you there. Massive melee seems like it could be very speedster.

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F=mv[super]2[/super]. The

F=mv2. The laws of physics say a speedster would get Massive Melee whether you want it or not, unless your theme is “world’s greatest punch-puller”. 😉

Twitter: @SisterSilicon

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Sister - for that reason I'm

Sister - for that reason I'm actually curious about kinetic melee. It increases as the battle goes (ie as the speedster speeds up).

Seems very similar to Tachyons playstyle from the card game Sentinels of the Multiverse.

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SisterSilicon wrote:
SisterSilicon wrote:

F=mv2. The laws of physics say a speedster would get Massive Melee whether you want it or not, unless your theme is “world’s greatest punch-puller”. 😉

I think you got that equation wrong, but the idea behind it is sound. The kinetic energy of an object like a fist is more dependent upon its velocity than its mass.

Either you were trying to say that Energy (E) = 1/2mv2 or Force (F) =ma (acceleration) which is the derivitive (slope) of velocity (v) over time.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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In CoH I made my speedster

In CoH I made my speedster with kinetic melee because the animations had little aura paths which followed my hands. This was the video game equivalent of the old film trick of slowing the hero down to make them look like they were going faster.

Presumably, in CoT any melee set will be able to do hand-to hand with aura trails, at least eventually.

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But as a thing approaches

But as a thing approaches light speed doesn't it's mass increase? Is that right?

Mass + Velocity = Pain

Super M.
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I'm honestly torn. I want

I'm honestly torn. I want every single melee power set as they all seem like great potential for the feel.

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I understand where you're

I understand where you're coming from. This is the exact reason I never make a speedster. They're OP. Realistically, a speedster would win almost every fight unless they forget half of their abilities. This is why Quicksilver had to be left behind in that one X-Men movie because he would have just handled the ending on his own otherwise. This is why they had to make the Flash an inexperienced fraidy cat in the new Justice League. It's a problem. Speedsters are awesome but it's hard to come up with excuses as to why don't just solve every problem in point two seconds.

What you need to do first is say what the speedster's limits are. For instance, if he runs at full speed and hits at full speed, can his own body withstand the impact? At that speed, the force you're hitting with is so intense, it should shatter your own arm in so many places that it would basically turn into liquid paste. So is there a limit to how hard they can hit and not hurt themselves? Is there a limit to how fast they can think versus how fast they can run? That's a really good speedster limiter because if they can't think a thousand times faster, then they might have difficulty reacting that fast even though they can move that fast.

Agents of Shield took an interesting approach with their speedster, Yo-yo. As the nickname implies, she can only go for a limited amount of time before she snaps back to wherever she started. She can still dance around bullets and disarm a whole crowd of people, but if she gets hurt during this, she'll snap back with no control and slam into the wall behind her, which could potentially be fatal.

First step in narrowing down your power should be finding out what your limits are, be they physical (don't want your own arm to explode), mental (can't think that fast), or some specific condition that limits you (the yo-yo clause).

Edit: The Rodriguez clause in action:

Note that she does have one advantage over the Flash in that she doesn't have energy zapping around her, which allows her to stealth-speed. Also note how her vision blurs around the edges when it shows point-of-view... this is another limiter.

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I had an idea for a speedster

I had an idea for a speedster who wasn't actually a speedster; they're a time manipulator pretending to be a speedster. So mostly they'd speed their own personal time up, in extreme cases slow down the world's time and in really extreme cases stop time.

But as it's time manipulation they'd have to be careful not to fast forward themselves too much or they'd notably age so they'd have to spend time rewinding time on his body.

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You can build a speedster

You can build a speedster however you want. In some ways, traditional speedster powers are among the most absurd super-abilities, and that's even without resorting to things like the "Speed Force."

Realistically, a speedster would catch on fire or dissolve into a fine pink mist in less than a second...so have fun and break as many laws of physics as the Rule of Cool requires.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Well, now they tend to put in

Well, now they tend to put in some sort of way they can survive it, even if it's just being more durable than a normal human so they can take it.

Gone, seem the days of "Just can!" :p

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Well yes. Most everything

Well yes. Most everything comic related is stretching reality, like shooting lasers out of your eyes, to the logic of a guy with a bow and arrow actually fighting crime ;)

But still, mechanically, Id love to look at all of the options.

Super M.
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So, for my build - Im

So, for my build - Im actually looking at Stalwart over Enforcer for X main reasons:

1) The pinnacle of speedsters to me is not getting hit, and that is obtained by using a Defense Primary

2) The idea of a smart mouthed speedster distracting the enemies is super amusing

3) Build Slots - The plan as of now is to have the players unlock 2 additional different build slots as they level. As a Stalwart, I can take Super Agility Primary and my secondary can change with different build slots:
Super Agility/Massive Melee - for being the Speedster that takes out groups at a time
Super Agility/Kinetic Combat - for being a single target build
Super Ability/FightingProwess or even a Manipulation set available later on, as thats also theme with a speedster.
This allows me to be versitile while as an Enforcer, Id only change my secondary Defense...which I feel for concept I want to keep as Super Agility.

So:

TurboCharge (aka Tom Turbo)
Stalwart
Primary: Super Agility
Secondary: (initial melee of choice)

I think it will be fun, and we'll see how this changes as we get closer to the game.

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Thinking on it, that makes

Thinking on it, that makes Enforcers seem a little weird.

The ones focused on damage dealing, will be able to change their defenses.

The ones focused on defenses, will be able to change their damage dealing. :p

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YUP lol, but theyll be BEST

YUP lol, but theyll be BEST at their focus =P It is a bit weird.

Dont forget different specialties that will be unlocked later, so Enforcers will always be their main MELEE, but will later be able to take a manipulation or support secondary instead of Protection (Im not sure how good an idea that is but....yeah...we'll see lol)

Edit: Corrected lingo

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Fyi, the basic play style is

Fyi, the basic play style is Protection. Defense is one kind of protection. .


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Super M.
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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Fyi, the basic play style is Protection. Defense is one kind of protection. .

Right you are. Protection. Still transferring to current game lingo. Im sure you know those struggles more than I.

While youre here Tannim - Any comment on how youd build a Speedster for fun and profit? =P

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Now I want to know if there

Now I want to know if there will be superspeed parkour!

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Now I want to know if there will be superspeed parkour!

Im just hoping for the melee sets (even for super strength and other "slow" sets) there will be aesthetic decoupling for fast sped up attacks, even some with "shadow trails" like Dark Melee had for its flurry of punches attack (Shadow Maul? I think), so that I can make the melee sets look like super speed.

Also, I would love for some sort of "super speed punches the ground" for pbaoes, and perhaps even the "moves hands fast and creates whirlwinds" for ranged attacks.

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I'm hoping all the melee sets

I'm hoping all the melee sets have a ranged attack option, besides forcing melee into range attacks in the third set.

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Eh, I think melees job is to

Eh, I think melees job is to get into melee. I dont really want EVERY set to have ranged, beyond maybe a basic power. Thats WHY we have tertiary access. But we'll see =)

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I'm not saying enough to have

I'm not saying enough to have a purely ranged attack. Spines only had two ranged attacks. You had to get into melee. One of them you had to even jump back if you wanted to get more out of it than just the one target usually too.

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Shadow maul was a crazy

Shadow maul was a crazy attack to get right. It's cone was super fiddley but was great when you got 3 people in its attack.

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For a speedster, I’m

For a speedster, I’m particularly interested if / when our animators can make ranged attacks look like movement themed attacks.

If it had to be melee I might consider fighting prowess / super agility. The Defense from the melee set help reduce any damage that gets past the evasion from the protection set. Whixh can be role played as being just quick enough that the attack glanced instead of a full hit.

And there will not br a ranged attack in every melee set. Some sets may have a lunge or ranged attack but theynare exceptions not a rule. But you do get a basic ranged attack as a stater power.


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Seems like a solid build.

Seems like a solid build. Too many good themey options available.

If settle for creating whirlwinds as ranged, but movement ranged power animations sound stellar.

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Having a ranged attack

Having a ranged attack animation that looks like your character runs towards an enemy and punches them would be neat as all get out.

PBAoE where it seems like your character runs around attacking around the point of origin. Yeah.

Might copy this and put it in the animation suggestion thread.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Having a ranged attack animation that looks like your character runs towards an enemy and punches them would be neat as all get out.
PBAoE where it seems like your character runs around attacking around the point of origin. Yeah.
Might copy this and put it in the animation suggestion thread.

Pls do! Those are awesome ideas.

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Already done it! Maybe I'm a

Already done it! Maybe I'm a speedster too! :O

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Assuming that traditional

Assuming that traditional speedsters are possible (without massive collateral damage to themselves and their surroundings), the implications to the story are even more severe.

For example, let's say that two groups of opposing supers meet for battle. One has a traditional speedster, and one does not.

Before the enemy team even notices, the speedster has already KO'ed, bound, gagged, and stashed miles away from the battle site every opposing member that s/he can easily KO. So, most minions, mentalists, magicians, energy controllers, trained acrobats, and gadgeteers are hors de combat before they even know they are under attack.

Anyone too tough for the speedster to KO quickly is also frisked, bound, gagged, and has his/her eyes and ears full of chewing gum and/or duct tape. Any devices that can be disassembled, are. Any combatants with known susceptibilities are covered in kryptonite/garlic/whatever. Only the toughest of bricks, or people with strong force fields or damage auras that were active before the fight started, would still be effective.

So basically, the team without the speedster is defeated before they even know what happened.

On that basis, I would argue that traditional speedsters are best modeled with AoE crowd control powers. But hey, go with whatever set you like.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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It really depends on how fast

It really depends on how fast the speedster is. Punching out a guy is a pretty quick action but searching, binding, and gagging folks would take some time. Speedsters aren't some mythical thing who can all move and get everything they need done done within a second. If the enemy mentalist isn't shut down first then they could shut the speedster down or turn them against the team.

An energy controller might be covered in an energy field making attacking them a bad time.

Any combatant with susceptibilities are already covered? What did the speedster bring it all with them? They need to run back to their lair, leaving their team to fight possibly some huge threat without them, grab the stuff then run all the way back to the fight. That can take a while unless they have Goku's instant transmission.

A speedster can only disable devices if they know full well that tampering with said devices won't result in explosions, catastrophic or otherwise.

There's a few good ways to take out a speedster or just keep him busy. "I've planted several bombs around the city, you might want to get them before they explode." Speedster kept busy. Or having hidden combatants fighting or creating a landscape that's detrimental to a speedster (slippery or muddy ground, darkness, fog). I mean yeah, if the other team isn't prepared to face a speedster they'll go down pretty quick but you can say the same about almost any typical super hero archetype.

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Reality is not really a

Reality is not really a factor for comics. Comics create their own truths, like how Batman/Green arrow havn't died to a stray bullet.

We just go along for the ride.

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Also have to remember,

Also have to remember, exactly how fast are the speedsters?

Mach 1 (bullets general travel faster than this) speedster may not actually be able to go as fast as TV shows like to show them going. Would one really be to fast for the human eye at that speed when they're human sized? May at the very least make out a decent blur of the individual.

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A quick google search tells

A quick google search tells me that in order for something the size of a soccer ball to not be seen by a person is over 38,000 MPH. Dunno how fast for a human to not be seen, probably faster than even that.

A regular person can begin reacting in around .2 seconds. So anyone with any kind of super reflexes could react much faster than that.

There's a lot of factors involved in speedsters.

If a speedster fights someone who's super tough (and possibly super strong) and said person also has quick reactions the speedster could find themselves laid out by a blow they didn't know was coming.

Also another factor with speedsters that doesn't get addressed much is stopping and turning. Most can seemingly stop on a dime. I know it's all comic books and pseudo science but still. Lotta factors.

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I recall an old Heroes

I recall an old Heroes Unlimited Villain, who couldn't stop on a dime. Had invunerability to take care of the often missed turns.

Some speedsters can only keep it up for so long. I believe Cheetara of Thundercats could only keep max speed up for only a couple of minutes.

So, some speedsters aren't like the Flash. I don't even think Quicksilver was as fast as the Flash. Not sure about now, sometimes I think Marvel and DC want their heroes to one up each other :p I do feel X-Men movie Quicksilver is likely going way faster than he ever did in the comics :p

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He's gone pretty fast in the

He's gone pretty fast in the comics I'm trying to remember the Quicksilver Vs. Flash Death battle.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

He's gone pretty fast in the comics I'm trying to remember the Quicksilver Vs. Flash Death battle.

Flash won. In the comics Quicksilver was never even close to Flash's speed, unless they've upped his speed since.

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Yeah, Flash won. But that's

Yeah, Flash won. But that's not the relevant part of why I brought it up. Mostly because it has a lot of information on how fast Quicksilver is. Not as fast as the Flash doesn't tell you how fast Quicksilver is... I mean it tells you something of how fast he is...

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Oh. I don't think they took

Oh. I don't think they took into account movie Quicksilver in that. X-Men movie Quicksilver was also faster than Avenger movie Quicksilver.

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Yeah they probably didn't

Yeah they probably didn't take it into account (I don't know if that movie was out at the time) but either way I think we've gotten way off topic here.

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Marvel Wiki (and Wikipedia)

Marvel Wiki (and Wikipedia) state that Quicksilver has been able to reach a top speed of Mach 10 (original description of Quicksilver just says that he runs at Supersonic Speeds without detailing it).
In the X-Men movie someone did the math and estimated that he was moving at about 4091 m/s (9151 mph). A lot faster than Mach 10, which equals 7672 mph.