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How much do they actually need for launch?

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Dark Cleric
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How much do they actually need for launch?

Preface: I have no idea.

My idea: Keep hopes high and expectations low.

Explanation: I was thinking about CoH and the amount of actual play required to get to level 30. I don't know how CoT's leveling will be compared to CoH's (the amount of xp to 'level' at each level) but I imagine the first few levels will go rather quickly. I can't really see them needing THAT much content for level 1-10. Also, it may not be as difficult to create much content with the same resources for the first low levels. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have the first few hours of gameplay done. We've been told they have run the first bank heist mission multiple times.

Along with that thought, we know that they are employing a software that can auto-create the 'instance'; this should take quite a bit of work to develop and perfect, but once that is good to go they will be saving a lot of time by not having to create every instance. I imagine there will still be quite a few they want to do manually for...reasons...but once they get the contact and storyline and boundaries of the mission done, they can move on.

The July 4th video was a pretty cool visual of a PC created in the chargen; I really hope that PC was created recently and that it means it is basically done being integrated. If it is at that point, work will probably largely shift to creating all the variety they can get for the chargen...well, for the team that does that at least. I hope that this is the case but still trying to keep expectations low. It's always better to be surprised IMO. And, of course, they're going to want quite a bit in the chargen before announcing it has been successfully integrated and is ready to be released.

We've also been told recently that the reason we haven't been given big screenshots of the world is that they are doing it in sections. Some are done while others are not and it would take some fancy pov work to get any decent shots. By now I would think the initial starting zone is at least close to being done. Aesthetics may be the last thing they comb over and really give detail to. Lockharde Island seems to -be- an island so they probably don't need to put too much more work into that zone for the purposes of letting us login to the island...if that is in fact what they plan to do. I don't think that they officially said that is happening but that they hope it can happen. Again, high hopes but low expectations.

Now, the meat and bones (IMO) of the game...the bad guys. This is an area we really haven't seen or heard almost anything as far as I know. We have the cape chaser drop-down section but as far as seeing bad guys or having an update about them, we know very little besides their intention. I'm super excited to get some screen shots and/or videos of the bad guys, hopefully in the next few months. The non-humans will probably take the most time if they don't already have the bone structure for their models done.

Also one of the areas we haven't seen too much of is the power fx. We have seen some control powers, like making the bad guys dance, lightning arrows, sword animations (I believe this one was to show it working while holding another weapon that wasn't being used?), and a few others. I think there is still a lot of work here because of aesthetic decoupling and get all the right fx/animations to mesh with all the available props and powers. Again, this is a video that I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat for. As well as being the biggest area where I am reserving my expectation because I know that they can't create a unique fx for each prop and power combo. For example, I'm pretty sure that every melee power set that uses a weapon and lightning fx (for example) will look the same just with a different prop. I can't expect unique fx for each prop.

I don't think lore is a problem for CoT at this point. There have been some comments by the devs that they have a LOT of lore, they just haven't gotten around to writing it into the game or haven't got to the part where it's needed. Coding is probably the only issue here, if it's an issue at all.

Travel powers. We've seen them fly, super jump, wall climb, grapple, and super speed. Not sure if we've seen teleportation yet or any others. They all seems to work and may need some tweaking but they are all operational.

Some things that we know about, but we don't know if these are just on paper or have been coded into the game yet. Combat - they've recently given us a lot of information on how control mechanics work, the mastery sets, and general information about controls, resistances, defense, etc. I can only imagine this will be a headache or two to code. Augments and refinements and the crafting game mechanic. Again, we've been given a basic overview but whether or not that's been implemented into the game and coded is another question.

I'm sure there is a lot I didn't mention, and a lot that I don't even know to mention. It feels like things are looking up for CoT, so I have high hopes. I mean, it's hard to keep my hope in check when they give us such good updates. It's also hard to keep my expectations in check.

What am I missing? or what do I have wrong?

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ConundrumofFurballs
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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if they already have the first few hours of gameplay done.

Yes and no....

Dark Cleric wrote:

Now, the meat and bones (IMO) of the game...the bad guys. This is an area we really haven't seen or heard almost anything as far as I know. We have the cape chaser drop-down section but as far as seeing bad guys or having an update about them, we know very little besides their intention.

Lore Updates:
[i]Tales from the TCPD[/i]: 89, 99, 132, 147, 164, 178, 191, 201
[i]Tales from the Underworld[/i]: 91, 111, 140, 156, 170, 186, 197
Other updates about particular villains and villainous groups: 97, 149, 151, 154, 168, 174, 180, 182, 193, 211

And those are just the ones listed in the lore section of [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/kickstarter-update-reference-list][i]Kickstarter Update Reference List[/i][/url]

Dark Cleric wrote:

I don't think lore is a problem for CoT at this point. There have been some comments by the devs that they have a LOT of lore, they just haven't gotten around to writing it into the game or haven't got to the part where it's needed.

Lore is not a problem, correct. We have a ton of lore, to be sure. We are very actively writing missions. I personally review at least two missions per week, some weeks as many as 10. It just takes time to put it together. We've got one path fully written, one path about half written, and two paths that are outlined but we haven't started detailing the missions yet.
Northside of the bay alone has 300 tip missions, 2 paths containing about 60 missions each, and 30 other series, for a total of roughly 520 missions at launch. That's only half the city. Southside has roughly the same number again.

...I can't speak for the other departments.

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Fantastic amount of info

Fantastic amount of info there!

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Dark Cleric
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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if they already have the first few hours of gameplay done.

Yes and no....

Dark Cleric wrote:

Now, the meat and bones (IMO) of the game...the bad guys. This is an area we really haven't seen or heard almost anything as far as I know. We have the cape chaser drop-down section but as far as seeing bad guys or having an update about them, we know very little besides their intention.

Lore Updates:
[i]Tales from the TCPD[/i]: 89, 99, 132, 147, 164, 178, 191, 201
[i]Tales from the Underworld[/i]: 91, 111, 140, 156, 170, 186, 197
Other updates about particular villains and villainous groups: 97, 149, 151, 154, 168, 174, 180, 182, 193, 211

And those are just the ones listed in the lore section of [url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/kickstarter-update-reference-list][i]Kickstarter Update Reference List[/i][/url]

Dark Cleric wrote:

I don't think lore is a problem for CoT at this point. There have been some comments by the devs that they have a LOT of lore, they just haven't gotten around to writing it into the game or haven't got to the part where it's needed.

Lore is not a problem, correct. We have a ton of lore, to be sure. We are very actively writing missions. I personally review at least two missions per week, some weeks as many as 10. It just takes time to put it together. We've got one path fully written, one path about half written, and two paths that are outlined but we haven't started detailing the missions yet.
Northside of the bay alone has 300 tip missions, 2 paths containing about 60 missions each, and 30 other series, for a total of roughly 520 missions at launch. That's only half the city. Southside has roughly the same number again.

...I can't speak for the other departments.

I wasn't expecting a reply from a dev so quick...you sir are a gentleman and a scholar. And I am astounded at the number of missions already slated for launch...that is freaking stellar.

Regretfully I wasn't very clear about my enemies section. In my mind I was talking about what they look like, wanting screenshots or concept art. I know we've gotten concept art for a few of them. I'm just excited to see what they all look like! But, also, all your links I admit I had no idea about...haven't delved into the Kickstarter site too much yet...so THANK YOU!!!

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Project_Hero
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I wonder how long it will be

I wonder how long it will be before we get a trailer that shows a typical mission. With a character created by the chargen fighting badguys.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

ConundrumofFurballs
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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

*checks wardrobe*
*checks driver's license*
*checks educational credentials*
*checks chromosomes*

I am not a gentleman!

Dark Cleric wrote:

And I am astounded at the number of missions already slated for launch...that is freaking stellar.

We do try.... :)

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Along with that thought, we know that they are employing a software that can auto-create the 'instance'; this should take quite a bit of work to develop and perfect, but once that is good to go they will be saving a lot of time by not having to create every instance. I imagine there will still be quite a few they want to do manually for...reasons...but once they get the contact and storyline and boundaries of the mission done, they can move on.

They have said they have two systems. One that takes pre-made full rooms and mix and match them and while the other one can also furnish the rooms themselves. I think most will start as the first one then transition more and more onto the second one. Pretty sure the second one will still allow for fully pre-made rooms.

Dark Cleric wrote:

Also one of the areas we haven't seen too much of is the power fx. We have seen some control powers, like making the bad guys dance, lightning arrows, sword animations (I believe this one was to show it working while holding another weapon that wasn't being used?), and a few others. I think there is still a lot of work here because of aesthetic decoupling and get all the right fx/animations to mesh with all the available props and powers. Again, this is a video that I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat for. As well as being the biggest area where I am reserving my expectation because [b]I know that they can't create a unique fx for each prop and power combo[/b]. For example, I'm pretty sure that every melee power set that uses a weapon and lightning fx (for example) will look the same just with a different prop. I can't expect unique fx for each prop.

Emphasis mine. It's not so much a question if they can do it but rather why should they do it.

A lot of weapon classes/types (at least the major groupings like one-hand or two-hand) are used and behave so close to each other that making unique FX for them would most likely be utterly wasted since they wouldn't be visually distinct enough to justify the cost of making them. Therefor it's much more cost effective to make a base version that can be tweaked a little, either automatically by the weapon type or power you choose or manually by the player. I also distinctly remember them saying that they adjust animation a little bit based on the specific power chosen but they still opt to make several versions for significant differences in animation time so that a 1-sec animation won't look like it's done in slo-mo if attached to a 3-sec power or done in FF if 3-sec animation on 1-sec power.

Besides, I'm sure we will have a few different choices for each power within each individual aesthetic set. Which probably means that I can choose to use the exact same choice for a lot of my powers within one specific type (melee, ranged, AoE).

Dark Cleric
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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

*checks wardrobe*
*checks driver's license*
*checks educational credentials*
*checks chromosomes*

I am not a gentleman!

My apologies!

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Northside of the bay alone has 300 tip missions, 2 paths containing about 60 missions each, and 30 other series, for a total of roughly 520 missions at launch. That's only half the city. Southside has roughly the same number again.

This game is gonna be so awesome!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I wonder how long it will be before we get a trailer that shows a typical mission. With a character created by the chargen fighting badguys.

This would make for a great Twitch Livestream

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Dark Cleric
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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I wonder how long it will be before we get a trailer that shows a typical mission. With a character created by the chargen fighting badguys.

This would make for a great Twitch Livestream

I'm torn between wanting to hope this will be done before the Second Chance, as it seems obvious a high-quality video is a no-brainer to show people the real progress that has been made and give them a taste of actual gameplay, but also trying to stay realistic with the MWM team of part time volunteers. To me it's logical to not expect too much until the game actually releases.

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

*checks wardrobe*
*checks driver's license*
*checks educational credentials*
*checks chromosomes*

I am not a gentleman!

On my oath, I'm not a violent man. *[b]WHACK[/b]*

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]

Project_Hero
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Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

*checks wardrobe*
*checks driver's license*
*checks educational credentials*
*checks chromosomes*

I am not a gentleman!

On my oath, I'm not a violent man. *[b]WHACK[/b]*

There's a Discworld book that has a character that says stuff like that. And is secretly a woman.

Good stuff.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Nos482 wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

*checks wardrobe*
*checks driver's license*
*checks educational credentials*
*checks chromosomes*

I am not a gentleman!

On my oath, I'm not a violent man. *[b]WHACK[/b]*

There's a Discworld book that has a character that says stuff like that. And is secretly a woman.

Good stuff.

I am not secret about it.....

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Nos482 wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

you sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

*checks wardrobe*
*checks driver's license*
*checks educational credentials*
*checks chromosomes*

I am not a gentleman!

On my oath, I'm not a violent man. *[b]WHACK[/b]*

There's a Discworld book that has a character that says stuff like that. And is secretly a woman.

Good stuff.

I am not secret about it.....

Was mostly refering to the "On my oath I am not a violent man" part.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Lore is not a problem, correct. We have a ton of lore, to be sure. We are very actively writing missions. I personally review at least two missions per week, some weeks as many as 10. It just takes time to put it together. We've got one path fully written, one path about half written, and two paths that are outlined but we haven't started detailing the missions yet.
Northside of the bay alone has 300 tip missions, 2 paths containing about 60 missions each, and 30 other series, for a total of roughly 520 missions at launch. That's only half the city. Southside has roughly the same number again.

Awesome info, and even more awesome accomplishment, Furballs and team...thanks!

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Well this thread was a

Well this thread was a pleasant surprise. :)

Thanks for sharing, ConundrumofFurballs.

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I'm less concerned with how

I'm less concerned with how much initial content is made than that they get something like sidekicking and easy-share missions right.

This is multiplayer, and making it hard to group because of level differences or, worse, chaining of missions everywhere where most missions require a prerequisite mission, repeat ad nauseum, forces solo play.

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I wonder how long it will be before we get a trailer that shows a typical mission. With a character created by the chargen fighting badguys.

This would make for a great Twitch Livestream

Not really. A lot of what people visualize as belonging to a mission is actually not part of the mission architecture itself, but secondary systems.

To have everything in, you'd basically have yourself at Alpha-level.

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Gorgon wrote:
Gorgon wrote:

[...]chaining of missions everywhere where most missions require a prerequisite mission, repeat ad nauseum, forces solo play.

This is something that we have kept in mind as we've written the missions. Tips are gated only by level and alignment; district stories are gated only by level and alignment but consist of more than one mission; faction stories (also more than one mission) will be gated by level and alignment, and maybe faction reputation in some cases; paths are the odd man out here in that they are a series of series, requiring that all of the lower level content be completed before getting the higher level content. Paths are intended to work exclusively in this manner, as they are telling the overall story, not just parts of it. Everything else is telling only part of the story, and as such any prerequisites are limited.

When we write the missions, we keep the variability in play styles in mind at all times. If we don't feel that a mission will work for both RP'ers, lore-hounds, and button mashers alike, that mission is sent back to be fixed, or it is scrapped entirely. Different writers are working on different types of missions because of how their individual writing style shows itself in the playability of the mission. Our goal with missions, above all else, is that they be enjoyable for RP'ers, button mashers, and lore-hounds alike, for both solo and teamed play.

Obviously there are technical aspects that will play into how well these ideas are implemented, but I cannot speak to what plans those departments have.

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The main reason I made this

The main reason I made this thread was just to put my thoughts out 'on paper' of what CoT needs for launch because it helps me be more patient. The Dev feedback on this thread has been fantastic with great insights into different aspects, especially missions...and I really appreciate that. I am naturally an impatient person so these little tidbits help during the times when we go weeks without an update. Seriously Devs, thank you for the input :)

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