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How many variations of flight are available?

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The Hybrid
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How many variations of flight are available?

I understand characters can be able to fly, and there is extensive customization options, alongside travel abilities. I was wondering if there's any plans for things like "not quite" flight, as in flight from another object or using your powers? In superhero comics, as we all know, there are many ways to get around if you don't have the innate ability to just fly (in fact, Marvel actually has very few people who can fly just because, as Stan Lee hated that).

So how extensive is the ability to fly in the game, such as the animation instead of being just Superman flight, say...

You summon wings and do it.
Ride on something as a sort on an object like a glider or a cloud.
Use a jetpack.
Coat yourself with energy to carry you such as telekinesis or a forcefield.
Use jet propulsion energy.
Carry an object lifting you.

Some visual examples:









I know many animations exist with the extensive customization, I just want to be clear how extensively you can customize your travel powers? If I can have an air-based character ride a cloud, that'll instantly win points with me.

Foradain
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There's an important phrase to add to your question, and that phrase is "at launch". And if the variant of flight you want is not available at launch, the new question is, "How far down The List is it?" ^_^

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The Hybrid
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How could I forget riding a

How could I forget riding a broomstick? That's perfect!

Yeah, good point. I understand this game will have a long life ahead of it with continuous updates, so that's important to keep in mind.

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I mean mechanically, flight

I mean mechanically, flight is flight. Adding a glider or jetpack is trivial ,eh?


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Philosophical question of the

Philosophical question of the day : is Teleportation a flight since you are not touching the ground when TPing ?
You have 2 hours ! Let's begin ^^


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Foradain
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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Philosophical question of the day : is Teleportation a flight since you are not touching the ground when TPing ?
You have 2 hours ! Let's begin ^^

While Teleportation can get you anywhere Flight can, there are two important points to consider.

First is that high-altitude reconnaissance is difficult.

Second is that you cannot simply park yourself at high altitude and consider yourself safe to grab a bite to eat or take a bio break.

Actually, those are the same problem: Teleportation can get you to high altitude, but it cannot keep you there without player attention.

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Redlynne
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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

I mean mechanically, flight is flight. Adding a glider or jetpack is trivial ,eh?

There's a difference between "constant thrust equals constant speed" like City of Heroes did ... and "momentum energy flight" which uses lift/weight/thrust/drag physics to make it so that you slow down when climbing and speed up when diving and if you drop thrust you'll stall and fall out of the sky.

The fun part is that UE4 is perfectly capable of doing both.


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DesViper
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Don't think I've every played

Don't think I've every played a game with momentum flight.


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Thankfully I don't need

Thankfully I don't need anything other than Superman-style "unaided" flight for my main character's concept, but I do hope that we can get some decent speed out of flight as a travel power, even if that means investing in it in some way like how City of Heroes has Afterburner, and DCUO requires a talent point investment for "Supersonic" mode. I haven't really played any MMOs where flight at truly impressive speeds was possible. Games with various options for "travel powers" always seem to balance flying against other modes of travel like super speed or teleportation by making flying slower because it has full freedom of movement.

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Magneto flies standing

Magneto flies standing upright in a bubble of force. I always liked that.

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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Don't think I've every played a game with momentum flight.

Anthem.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Don't think I've every played a game with momentum flight.

Anthem.

No one plays Anthem.

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The Hybrid
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I hope there will be plenty

I hope there will be plenty of flight types, because I have ideas for several badass normal characters who use a device to get around so obviously the unaided flight won't cut it.

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There was a game, an adult

There was a game, an adult-themed game, that had a pretty good momentum flight system. Better than what you would think that type of game should have. There was a post of the flight test somewhere on the forums previously.

Anthem is now 9.99USD on Amazon. I played one of the open weekends. It was not a great flight experience.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Atama wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Don't think I've every played a game with momentum flight.

Anthem.

No one plays Anthem.

Interceptor play in Anthem is one of the most fun things I’ve ever done in a game.

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Having played Anthem, I'm

Having played Anthem, I'm gonna have to disagree with Grimfox and say that the flight felt satisfying as hell. I have many, MANY problems with the game to the point where I can't even load it up anymore due to a mixture of emotional frustration and technical frustration, but if there's anything I can say about it that's good, it's that the flight system was excellent.

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Anthem has its problems. It

Anthem has its problems. It’s the most confusing game ever. There are so many problems with it and it’s just not that great overall. Yet it’s crazy fun to fly around and fight. Which is 90% of the game. You’d think that’s all that should matter, but the other 10% is so bad that it ruins it.

Don’t get me wrong, I played enough to finish the main story and get my character to a high level. And when I play I have a blast. And it’s not as glitchy as it was at release. But something about the game keeps me from going back. The story is dumb and incomprehensible, the characters are unlikeable and forgettable, the gameplay lacks variety, and while there aren’t many bugs anymore sometimes they are really bad.

It’s fun to just go into a mission, group up with random people you match with, and just burn through enemies in a big gorgeous open map. Fun in small doses.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Don't think I've every played a game with momentum flight.

Which is odd because I posted this video a couple of years ago in reference to how to do precisely this in UE4.

And the response at the time was ... thanks, but no thanks, we want to stay with BORING flight.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
desviper wrote:

Don't think I've every played a game with momentum flight.

Which is odd because I posted this video a couple of years ago in reference to how to do precisely this in UE4.

And the response at the time was ... thanks, but no thanks, we want to stay with BORING flight.

Maybe MWM chose the "boring" option but otherwise they would have to create at least two flight powers, once with momentum and one without.

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I'd be cool with some degree

I'd be cool with some degree of momentum-based flight. But mostly I just want to be able to go really fast while flying. Even with Afterburner turned on, flight in CoX caps out at a pretty low speed. I think Batman can grapple around in Arkham Knight faster than my flying characters in DCUO or CoX can move.

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Since I brought it up, the

Since I brought it up, the guy who made the first flying video has made an updated 1 minute flying demo video.
Please be advised though that the project he's doing it for is a UE4 porn game, so don't go looking up info on the game unless "that's your thing" you want to find. I'm simply posting this here as a demonstration of what energy/momentum flight would look like if it is implemented as a physics driven thing in UE4.


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The amount of work people put

The amount of work people put into such things boggles my mind :p


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That's impressive.

That's impressive.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Since I brought it up, the guy who made the first flying video has made an updated 1 minute flying demo video.
Please be advised though that the project he's doing it for is a UE4 porn game, so don't go looking up info on the game unless "that's your thing" you want to find. I'm simply posting this here as a demonstration of what energy/momentum flight would look like if it is implemented as a physics driven thing in UE4.

This video is awesome! and I love how the arms turn into wings

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That is beautiful. It could

That is beautiful. It could be excruciating to flap for incremental lift indoors but it would be brilliant for zone travel. Perhaps couple it with an assisted jump.

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The point that I'm trying to

The point that I'm trying to make with posting this examples of energy momentum flight done in the UE4 engine is that you don't HAVE TO BE limited to the kind of "flight mechanics" that we saw back in City of Heroes, where you only cared about 2 parameters ... the acceleration rate/friction and the maximum speed (which could be capped). Doing flight mechanics where constant thrust equals constant speed is ... boring ... precisely because the performance profile is SOOOO predictable.

However, if you've got a type of flight mechanic where you're slower to climb than you are to dive (because, Gravity is a Thing™) then that alone is going to make flying more interesting (and aerodynamic?) to do, because it enables "zooming" in order to "go faster" thanks to being able to dive in order to pick up speed. Being able to glide and have your speed slowly drop rather than instantly stop is interesting, particularly if the glide/speed drop is very gradual rather than something that's more like simply a 4 second slide every time.

I simply wanted to demonstrate that not only is this kind of thing POSSIBLE in UE4, in a way that simply wasn't possible to do in the City of Heroes game engine ... but also that it has ALREADY BEEN DONE and that City of Titans would profit by learning from the example.


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Get some of them

TLDR: I like! Do it! Other methods of physics movement?! Keep a simple flight option for inclusion. (Some people just wanna fly, not work at it)
——————————-
Get some of them RealWorldPhysics in the game! I agree that this example of flight not only is more realistic, it IS FUN (cite ridiculous but fun flight physics of Just Cause 3: grapple/wing suit/parachute) - And is only One example of the application of thrust/momentum based flight.

Consider the OP examples of Rocket Glider (Green Goblin) Basically a little plane=potential for real flight mechanics.

Jet Packs have multiple points of thrust and an altogether different method of movement.

Rocket Boots are more of a Super Jump unless you add some form of steering mechanic (wings/additional balancing thrusters ala Iron Man)

The same idea could even be applied to a Rocket Pogo Stick (Super jump) for those heroes who aren’t 16tons of green muscle.

This more-realistic application of movement physics could take a minute to get the hang of but my opinion is that it would feel more rewarding to actually grow a YOU skill through gameplay - because let’s face it, theres no skill flying in CoH, and no kudos for doing it well.

Now for those who don’t want the challenge/kudos/fun, yeah, optional “coat yourself in energy to carry you such as telekinesis or a forcefield” or the like where hovering/constant thrust=constant speed is possible, couple with Aesthetic Decoupling you could pull of the old style and please errbody: physics and not physics alike

Slightly off topic: Grapple movement, Spider web swangin’, on demand glider/wingsuit, possibly combinations of these mechanics for Other movement options, all RealWorldPhysics fun.
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Momentum-based flight is

Momentum-based flight is definitely possible in UE4, it has been since at least UE3. The Batman Arkham games have been doing it for ages. Technically it's more gliding than actual flight, but it is entirely momentum-based.

I don't know if I necessarily want it for my characters that will use flight, but it'd be cool to have as an option.

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Captain Citadel wrote:
Captain Citadel wrote:

I don't know if I necessarily want it for my characters that will use flight, but it'd be cool to have as an option.

Agreed. We don't want momentum based flight to be the exclusive/only way to fly.
We do however want it to be ONE WAY to fly among at least 1 other alternative (which I've been calling "boring flight" where constant thrust equals constant speed).
Having both options is the ideal to reach for.


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Possible but definitely. It

Possible but definitely. It for launch. We are using a more standard version of flight. It’s a lot of work to get that right when it comes to just the animations in flight. Some may remember our early flight demo.

And we haven’t even gotten to animation blending with combat and flight. Having to do that with moment based flight and in consideration how attacking debuffs your own movement, and to further complicate things, how fast you move is actually hooked into an movement system that governs how all movement works.

It will be quite a while before we can explore such a possibility.


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I agree that momentum based

I agree that momentum based flight is cooler. But I agree with Big Red here that keeping things simple, if only just for now, is the better plan. As was stated earlier, momentum flight indoors would be a pain. And a severe hindrance to combat. flap flap flap attack flap flap flap attack flap flap flap.

Maybe its something that they could introduce later as a vet reward. Or as an elite travel power or something. Compared to simple flight, I'm not sure what the benefit would be. A speed tradeoff maybe. Or maybe efficiency. Each flap uses energy, but gliding doesn't Once you get to altitude you can glide long distances for "free"

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

As was stated earlier, momentum flight indoors would be a pain. And a severe hindrance to combat. flap flap flap attack flap flap flap attack flap flap flap.

Momentum based flight makes more sense as a TRAVEL (long distances) type of power, rather than a "hang in the air the way that bricks don't" kind of power. That necessarily means a lot of open space, which you won't have on indoor maps (let alone inside caves!), and really only makes sense "outside" in the shared world where the boundaries of the space to move around in are not quite so nearby as you'd have inside of an instance (or at least, most instances, even if they are an "outdoors" setting).

Grimfox wrote:

Maybe its something that they could introduce later as a vet reward. Or as an elite travel power or something. Compared to simple flight, I'm not sure what the benefit would be. A speed tradeoff maybe. Or maybe efficiency. Each flap uses energy, but gliding doesn't Once you get to altitude you can glide long distances for "free"

I can easily imagine a scenario where Constant Thrust Equals Constant Speed Flight is a toggle that burns endurance every activation interval but allows you to hover in place and has a lower max speed (so 0-60 mph for example) while Momentum Flight only costs endurance while you are actively generating thrust but while "gliding" on momentum costs very little and has both a stall speed and a higher max speed (so 15-75 mph for example) where the "span" of achievable speeds is the same between the two but the minimum and maximum speeds move in lockstep with each other. That would work, game mechanically speaking.


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