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How do you fill the void?

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Reality
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How do you fill the void?

I have been a follower of this project ever since the disconnection. I still find my self wandering through old screen shots, pvp videos, and my old comics.

My question to all of you is, how do you fill that void? That vast emptiness must be controllable by some sort, I have just yet to find it.

Lothic
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I played CoH fairly regularly

I played CoH fairly regularly for its entire 8.5 year run. I will probably always miss it, even if CoT becomes a successful replacement.

But to be absolutely honest CoH was a fairly mature game and there was no real indication it was ever going to be radically updated or improved in any significant way. Even if NCsoft had not abruptly axed it back in 2012 I seriously doubt it was going last much more than another 2 or 3 years tops. I'm sure it would have lingered on with a tiny diehard playerbase but by all indications from the CoH Devs it was becoming a nightmare to maintain and adding new features to it was becoming increasingly problematic.

In a weird twist of fate it's almost a good thing that people like the MWM folks were forced to come together in order to make a new game. Yes it's hard to wait right now while they are working on it. But in the far long run (say 5+ years from now) if CoT becomes a reality it will be better than anything CoH could have ever been at that same point.

As far as "filling the void" I've been playing other games but I've also spent plenty of time on these forums annoying the MWM Devs and other future players with thoughts and suggestions I've had about making CoT as good as it can be. If they even accept 5% of my crazy ideas I will consider my work here done. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Radiac
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True story:

True story:
I bought a new computer in like late 2010 in order to, in my mind at the time, get a rig capable of playing the new Diablo game that was going to come out soon. I got the new computer, set it up, and shortly afterward, and totally by coincidence, received an email from an old friend saying "hey, CoX is free to play now". So I decided to go back and check out the old game I used to love and I fell in love all over again with it. Within a week I was re-subscribed so that I could do iTrials at night and access Cimerora, etc. I was happier than a pig in slop to make a Mastermind HERO from the start, etc. Some time during that "new renaissance" period, I was talking to a friend of mine at a comicbook/game store where I play Magic, and this guy was a big LoL/WoW player/spectator. I used to roll my eyes at this guy when he would pull out his laptop at the store and WATCH people play LoL. So the guy was hip to the MMO scene is what I'm trying to say. Anyway, I casually mention to this guy that I'm back on CoX again and his response at the time was a completely serious "That game is still running?". That was in late 2010/early 2011.

Even before NCSoft shut CoX down, the vast majority of the MMO players in the world had already moved on. A lot of people THOUGHT that game was over long before it was. Many people who had their own SGs in CoX had stopped playing to the point where someone else was running the SG on a month-by-month basis. The game was in serious need of a reboot or a "City of Heroes 2" release or something, and NCSoft hadn't made enough money on the FIRST CoX run to justify doing that, so they blew it up and moved on. Nobody, including me, liked the MANNER in which that was done, but it was like the so-called "fall of Rome" in the ancient world. Rome was a rotting carcass from the inside for many years before it's eventual sacking by the Alaric and the Goths, the actual fall was simply the finishing touch. People who had been invested in CoX had gotten to the point where they liked the IDEA of CoX being around, but they were all actually PLAYING other games. Except of course me, I'm a late-adopter and was REALLY into CoX in the last year of it's life.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Lothic
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Anyway, I casually mention to this guy that I'm back on CoX again and his response at the time was a completely serious "That game is still running?". That was in late 2010/early 2011.

Even before NCSoft shut CoX down, the vast majority of the MMO players in the world had already moved on. A lot of people THOUGHT that game was over long before it was.

I sometimes think the crybaby ragequitters who jumped ship in response to things like the Global Defense Reduction and Enhancement_Diversification were so dead-certain the game was going to die because of those changes that many of them actually deluded themselves into thinking it had in fact shutdown back in 2006. Of course as history proved not only did the game ultimately get better after those fixes but it lasted another 6+ years almost certainly BECAUSE of those fixes.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Gangrel
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I used to roll my eyes at this guy when he would pull out his laptop at the store and WATCH people play LoL. So the guy was hip to the MMO scene is what I'm trying to say.

And yet you look at twitch.tv nowadays and you see how popular League of Legends is more than likely also *due* to twitch broadcasting.

And if he watched people play LoL, then (depending on the person) they could be picking up hints and tips for a range of characters out there. Something which just playing normally (especially in LoL) you might not get immediately.

But the thing is, this is also FREE advertising for the company. Riot don't have to pay people to broadcast themselves playing League of Legends... the players will do it for free.

And then there are those players who have thousands of followers... getting them playing YOUR game and showing their followers helps spread the word and hopefully get them to purchase YOUR game.

It is also handy for reigniting interest in old titles as well. Something that speedrunners have noticed is how incredibly popular some of the more "quirkier" games are, even though they might not have sold well (or been sold) originally in your region.

Infact I quite possibly put in more time watching people play games than I do actually watching TV. It can be a whole load more interesting for starters.

[1] It should be noted that I am involved with a group that does voice packs for a piece of software. We get most of our sales from being able to show it off... and twitch is VERY handy for that.

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1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

nekollx
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ironically i started

ironically i started developing games after CoH left my life, and even more ironically in the last year I've become a official Wii u, X-box One, and Steam Developer and my team are making the official Shezow (a super hero show that aired for a season on the Hub) Video game. Oh how life twists and turns us.

Radiac
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My take-away lesson from this

My take-away lesson from this is : Don't make the game TOO easily breakable on the powerfulness scale then have to pull back hard and annoy everyone like CoH did in the early days. If anything, make the base game at roll-out TOO restrictive and hard to overpower, then open it up as time goes on. I mean, power creep being a thing, this will happen anyway. I think it's far better to make a rules set that's VERY fail safe against broken combos, even if you feel like the powers aren't as good as you'd like at first. The living organism that is the player base will adapt to whatever you give them, and quickly, and eventually you'll be able to datamine and find out where to improve things after much actual live play.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Empyrean
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

My take-away lesson from this is : Don't make the game TOO easily breakable on the powerfulness scale then have to pull back hard and annoy everyone like CoH did in the early days. If anything, make the base game at roll-out TOO restrictive and hard to overpower, then open it up as time goes on. I mean, power creep being a thing, this will happen anyway. I think it's far better to make a rules set that's VERY fail safe against broken combos, even if you feel like the powers aren't as good as you'd like at first. The living organism that is the player base will adapt to whatever you give them, and quickly, and eventually you'll be able to datamine and find out where to improve things after much actual live play.

I basically agree.

Even though an ESSENTIAL part of CoH was how powerful you felt, having to decrease people's power levels will usually be dangerously unpopular (though it didn't bother me personally), while incremental increases will happen anyway and will generally be popular.

And feeling powerful in CoH had more to do with mob ratios and--most importantly--animations.

To answer the OP: After much searching, I have found absolutely no way to fill the void. I have a full life and enjoy myself, but I don't currently play a game at all (not for lack of trying) and frequently miss CoH.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Interdictor
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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Even though an ESSENTIAL part of CoH was how powerful you felt, having to decrease people's power levels will usually be dangerously unpopular (though it didn't bother me personally), while incremental increases will happen anyway and will generally be popular.

Well - as for decreases and popularity, I think it depends on scale - minor adjustments or nerfs to certain aspects of powers, while grumble-inducing, should be almost expected (although a little "give and take" could mitigate this even further). But ED and the GD adjustment, while necessary, were MAJOR shifts in how the game worked - it was, at least until IOs came to be, all take and no give.

Quote:

And feeling powerful in CoH had more to do with mob ratios and--most importantly--animations.

Agreed - the eventual addition of ragdoll physics enhanced this even further.

As for the OP - I haven't really found an MMO to replace CoH - at least none that I would pay for (I occasionally dabble with STO as a free player). I do play other games that I enjoy - looking forward to the new Arkham game, and Fallout 4 (currently re-playing Fallout 3 to get in the mood). Those (and some other Steam Sale impulse buys I have yet to play) should tide me over till COT comes out.

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Mob ratios -- One thing this

Mob ratios -- One thing this game showed was that, no matter how powerful you were compared to a single minion-level yard trash, people kept pushing the limits until they died anyway.

That's important given the "inescapable" design conclusion you need thise singles to require a whole group, as EQ used to do. (On the flipside, if you haven't played EQ in a while, you get a cheap pet way more powerful than a necro's old skelly, and then go solo groups of reds, leveling every 15 minutes or so. The real bottleneck is finding enough reds.)

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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

nekollx
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What i missed them ost post

What i missed them ost post GDN was the lost of specialization, before GDN Pink Defense/Pink Neo Ranger was all frocefields and leadership able to make a team completely untouchable, after it never quite reached that level and had to work in some attacks for self survival, or my tank who was all defenses and taunts. I really missed that ability to specialize to make a one hit wonder and never really recaptured that feel.

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I don't think I've ever been

I don't think I've ever been able to fill the void.. Then again, I was young when City of Heroes was released and when most of my gaming days I was in school, studying or my parents wouldn't want me to sit on the computer for hours on end, so I just go friends house and play console. I've never really been able to find another superhero MMO or game in general that has captured me into it. So, I'm hoping City of Titans will be that game. :)

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I have played Sid Meier's

I have played Sid Meier's Pirates (love this game) and Diablo III (not great). I even tried Champions Online, DC Universe, DDO, Guildwars II and Neverwinter........but see my problem is that the whole time I was playing COX I never realized how good I had it. This is especially true when I think about how very good and diverse the game was getting in the last year or so. So much new content including power customization and new power sets and zones and trials galore. It is because COX was my first delve into MMOs that I find other games so unappealing. In my mind it is like the reason why I have such a hard time getting into Science Fiction and Fantasy novels......I had the horrible misfortune of reading Asimov and Tolkien before any others, which made all others I read later seem very marginal when held up to those two great authors. I cannot believe how popular these games are in light of what I was accustomed to with COX. When held to the standard of COX, all these others are pure rubbish in my point of view.

I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right not to agree.

Gangrel
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Follies wrote:
Follies wrote:

I have played Sid Meier's Pirates (love this game) and Diablo III (not great). I even tried Champions Online, DC Universe, DDO, Guildwars II and Neverwinter........but see my problem is that the whole time I was playing COX I never realized how good I had it. This is especially true when I think about how very good and diverse the game was getting in the last year or so. So much new content including power customization and new power sets and zones and trials galore. It is because COX was my first delve into MMOs that I find other games so unappealing. In my mind it is like the reason why I have such a hard time getting into Science Fiction and Fantasy novels......I had the horrible misfortune of reading Asimov and Tolkien before any others, which made all others I read later seem very marginal when held up to those two great authors. I cannot believe how popular these games are in light of what I was accustomed to with COX. When held to the standard of COX, all these others are pure rubbish in my point of view.

Different people have different tastes. And I know several people who will pick and prod and point out the issues of Tolkien. I enjoy Tolkien, but I prefer David Eddings as an author. I have never been able to get into the Wheel Of Time series, even though I know of several people who keep on recommending it to me. I just never made it past the first 1/2 of the first book.

I know people who really *love* the whole superhero genre, and yet could never get into CoX, because the combat for them felt too limiting compared to other MMO's out there.

They loved the character creation, they loved the ability to make Bio's (other MMO's can do this with addons), but for them they felt that the combat was too limiting for them.

Maybe it was because they tried other MMO's before hand, but it is NOT uncommon for the first experience to be "the best".

And yes, I know that CoX had a lot of range in terms of what the powers could do, and how the sets did them... but spending hours upon hours to find the "right one", is (nowadays) in the realm of those who are willing to invest the time to find what "works" for them.

If they find it, and are able to easily replicate what they like, then they are more able to flick between games.

It is NOT unusual for people to compare to their "first" though. If someone tried a game that didn't have combat rooting first and *loved* that, and then tried CoX, then I can see why people wouldn't like it... The same could be said for "extra curricular" features, or "what to do when I get to level cap", a lot of different things that CoX actually didn't really have a lot of (for the vast majority of the games life) and then compared to other MMO's, some people could say that CoX was lacking compared to other MMO's in those cases...

As I said earlier, different people like different things.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Though it scratched a

Though it scratched a different itch, I've logged several thousand combined hours into Dark souls 1, 2, Demon's Souls, and Bloodborne. Good games in their own sense, tons of character customization, but it has a more... Unified Loneliness to it than an MMO does. It had a comraderie that reminded me of City of Heroes, but it was more like... Everyone is struggling with you, everyone needs help, and are willing to help because of that struggle. You didn't need to ask for help, but they were there for you if you needed it. The game also taught me a lot about patience and unspoken communication, and just a touch of psychology.

Stalkers don't die: They simply... Disappear.

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I played CoH from (nearly)

I played CoH from (nearly) its release. Not really any game out there like it. Some of the CoH devs went to CO and went 180 degrees. While CoH was such a teaming friendly game ( and the loud parts of the community complained about their toons ability to solo - defenders and controllers - early in the game), CO was nearly the opposite - teaming was a rarity. Everyone could be an army of one, no shared missions, random teaming. Almost an anti-social game. I tried DCUO - too twitchy and basically designed for console gamers. I played some of the fantasy genre MMOs (Vanguard, Age of Conan, Rift, GW2, Archeage, Wildstar) and was an Alpha/Beta tester on several of those. Tried some of the 3rd person MMOs (Diablo III and Marvel Heroes 2015). Of all those, I still play Marvel Heroes on occasion (does not fill the void). CoH had a unique simplicity and yet still had depth. There is a sprinkling of other random games I play from time to time (Borderlands, L4D2, Sid Meier's games, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc.).

There is one aspect of Marvel Heroes I think would be great in a traditional MMO - the Omega System. As you play your various characters, you get a sort of account experience for Omega Points that you can use to "Super Power" each of your characters specifically to your unique builds. Takes a lot of game-play, but rewards you for a lot of game play - making veteran game-play beneficial beyond a nifty badge. Would be neat to see something like this implemented in CoT, even if later in the game.

"it's a long road to wisdom, but it's a short one to being ignored." The Lumineers