Well from what I recall Titan City is the most Power friendly city in the CoT world. This has a double edge sword effect where people with powers go to live without fear. The other edge is Titan City becomes a testing grounds for criminal types. From mad scientist testing out the latest evil robots or creations to villains wanting to make a name for themselves taking out the big Heroes. So the statistics of the CoT Powers are a bit off because Titan City is the anomaly when it comes to ratios. I also remember somewhere the idea that you will see NPC civilians with powers from time to time. An example would be club bouncers or a fire type keeping an outdoor location warm during cold weather.

So we might be seeing three classes of the population.
1. The Active hero/villain types who either fight crime or commit crimes.
2. Powered people who just live normal lives. A hot dog vendor with angle wings perhaps.
3. The normal human population.

A corollary complication to your question is; do PCs represent the far end of a standard bell curve or an anomalous spike several σ off to the side?

If the PCs are just part of the standard curve, with the vast majority of the population within the "normal" range, then between "normal" and "PC power levels" there should be a lot of people with "some not-normal abilities", analogous to the "deuces" of the Wild Card series. An antique dealer who can feel how old a purported antique really is, for instance.

If the PCs are part of a spike, then the question is, how many NPCs are also part of that spike (or others)?

Add in the sample filtering effect of Titan City's Super-friendly legal climate that Rotten mentioned, and we might be able to come closer to an answer for you. Maybe. ^_^

Lothic wrote:

Foradain wrote:
A corollary complication to your question is; do PCs represent the far end of a standard bell curve or an anomalous spike several σ off to the side?
If the PCs are just part of the standard curve, with the vast majority of the population within the "normal" range, then between "normal" and "PC power levels" there should be a lot of people with "some not-normal abilities", analogous to the "deuces" of the Wild Card series. An antique dealer who can feel how old a purported antique really is, for instance.
If the PCs are part of a spike, then the question is, how many NPCs are also part of that spike (or others)?
Add in the sample filtering effect of Titan City's Super-friendly legal climate that Rotten mentioned, and we might be able to come closer to an answer for you. Maybe. ^_^
My take on it (read purely my opinion) is that people who are of "player character" levels of power in this world are more likely anomalously spiky snowflakes rather than just at the far end of the bell curve. If we were just at the far end of the curve then as you say there might be a significant (20-30%?) chunk of the population with all sorts of "minor" powers and I just don't think that powers of ANY kind should be -that- common in Titan City. I get that powers are supposed to be "openly accepted" in Titan City but I think even people who could "light a cigarette with a tiny flame from their finger" should be relatively rare there.
I'm completely making up numbers here but if we say Titan city has a population of 1 million there could be maybe like 10,000 (1% of pop) low level "cigarette lighters" and then maybe just a couple thousand (0.2% of pop) people who'd at be player character level or higher. Again these numbers are just a hypothetical swag for ratio comparison purposes - your numbers may vary.

Lothic once again your thoughts mirror mine. We don't have any numbers but the 1% powered and let's call Player level Supers 0.2% fits my mental view. Other locations in the world could have all out anti-power views where even the cigarette light power could get you captured and or executed. There could be Nations were the Super rule over the minor and powerless like gods (rogue isles).

So going with the 0.2% of the world is player level Power. So out of the whole world, 0.2% of 7,500,000,000 is 15,000,000 Give or take a million or so we are fast approaching 8 billion.

True 15 million supers would make the world a nightmare to live in. I'm tired so my thinking isn't at 100%.

If I remember right the idea of CoT universe is that there has always been those with Powers. They were the inspiration of the "Gods" of old and stories of Hercules and other powered beings. Over time the number of Powered beings dropped but never disappeared. The drop in powered people is why we aren't ruled by a race of "Supermen". Then WWII happened and the population of powered people started to rise again. At least that's what my take on the Lore so far.

Alright, consider this:

In the real world, each person has the potential at birth to do almost anything, if given the right opportunities, having the right fortune, and being at the right place at the right time. However, each of us has more potential to do some things than others. My lack of color perception would make several jobs less than ideal, from flying a fighter jet to electronics assembly, for example.

Now, let us think of powers for a moment less as a mutation in the X-men world, but more like my color-blindness, a minor oddity that just pushes you to or against certain areas. We all have cases like this, but a great many have no idea about it. I recall a 12 year old girl who was normal, showed no interest in sports or athletics, until she saw a contortionist. She got curious, how did someone do that, so tried it herself like kids are apt to do. Turned out, she had a mutation which made her joints very pliable. Today, she works for Cirque d'Solei, but she would never have had she not seen that contortionist.

Just having that mutation was not going to put her on stage. She needed training, from those with more experience. For example, while growing up, I was introduced to computer programming early on, after my maternal grandfather purchased a TI-99A computer and my uncle thought it would be hilarious to show me how to scare the pants off my grandmother by programming it to produce what, from a distance, looked like a busted TV tube pattern on their brand new television it was hooked up to. This resulted in my skills and knowledges progressing in a particular direction, because the concept was introduced to me early on. From there, I had books, magazines and other people to turn to and expand this well of information, improving my capability. And this goes for any skill, be it computer coding, twisting yourself into amazing shapes, or even powers.

So, let us take your cigarette lighting guy example. He has some kind of innate difference, but has not developed it far. Perhaps, had he found it earlier on, and sought out training, he would be throwing fireballs today, instead of offering someone a complimentary bic service.

Then the question becomes, why were there ancients who openly used powers, whom we now call the gods, but not until recently?

Remember, it takes something innate, it takes awareness, it takes opportunity, and it takes training.

In the dark ages, those who were different, who expressed that difference, were literally burned at the stake, isolated, cut off, oppressed. This means even if they had the innate and awareness, they would find it far more difficult to have the opportunity, or to locate training. It was only when such prejudices began to fade into legend that powers began to pop up, but always in isolation, and always in a minor way. Not having anything to measure against, few knew the limits possible, so could not push themselves to be better. Much like sports challenges, the immediate aftermath of a record being broken is a slew of other people also surpassing that old record. There was a time that it was claimed nobody could run a 4 minute mile, or lift over 140kg, but today both are common. Once that barrier was broken, people knew they *could* push past it, so they did.

We have in our history a series of events which led to the growth of powers, particularly around Titan City. The first was the public announcement of super powered beings in the 1930's. The next was World War 2, where nations engaged in a crash program to find, secure, and improve the talents they did have. Then it was a fall off, you had people with talent certainly, but they were viewed as throwbacks, of a former era. This led to ever darker fates and empowered beings, until those with powers were viewed as no better than criminals.

Then in Titan City, a traumatic event around empowered beings occurred, the Hurricaine of '98 incident. A single powered villain, Cumulus Rex, somehow managed to tap into a larger power source, and lost control of his city destroying storm. The handful of powered folk in the city, heroes and villains alike, stopped him, at the cost of their own lives. This inspired the people of the city, who then not only welcomed powered folk in, but created programs to encourage and train them. This focus on recruitment, giving the support network needed, was a two fold step. One, by getting those with powers elsewhere to relocate, they could then be tapped to train. Two, by having powers so in the open, it resulted in ever more people trying to see if they even could. And by having more opportunities to improve ones powers, one would see a huge growth in super powered individuals in a short time.

We set this two decades in the past, because that mirrors the typical foundation work we find for such programs. The immediate results are there, certainly, but the explosion happens roughly 20 years after such a program begins, when those who grew up under it, the new generation, come into their own.

As a result, in just 20 years the very term for those with powers now is tied to the city which welcomed them: Titans

Oh, DOH! Got wrapped up in the discussion:

We put numbers at roughly 1 in 400 to have the potential for great power worldwide, roughly the same chance as a person being born with red hair and green eyes. That puts at just over 20 million with the potential worldwide. Add in the other factors, and we would find less than 10% of those emerging in any capacity, or 2 million worldwide. Add in opportunity for growth, statistics would put that at only 12%, less than a quarter million worldwide, concentrated into centers.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Oh, DOH! Got wrapped up in the discussion:
We put numbers at roughly 1 in 400 to have the potential for great power worldwide, roughly the same chance as a person being born with red hair and green eyes. That puts at just over 20 million with the potential worldwide. Add in the other factors, and we would find less than 10% of those emerging in any capacity, or 2 million worldwide. Add in opportunity for growth, statistics would put that at only 12%, less than a quarter million worldwide, concentrated into centers.

Thanks for the "real" numbers. :)

It's good to see that you also think that fully powered people ought to be a relative rarity. It's easy to speculate that if there were many millions of them that the world be a radically different place than the one you're creating for this game. I also figured that Titan City wouldn't be the only "concentration" of super people so maybe there will be other super powered havens to travel to as the game evolves.

I'd rather the story act as if there is not only a small amount of those with powers, but I'd also like to act from a story perspective that there isn't 2million other player characters running around either :p Which is not an uncommon thing for a MMO story to do (ignore there are so many other players).

Still allows those 2million players to play together though.

Even CoH's story treated it as if you took care of Atlas Park, when you ran all the AP stories, the other enemies were just a combination of mop up for the police and the fact that it was an MMO, so other players needed things to kill. :p

Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
I'd rather the story act as if there is not only a small amount of those with powers, but I'd also like to act from a story perspective that there isn't 2million other player characters running around either :p Which is not an uncommon thing for a MMO story to do (ignore there are so many other players).
Still allows those 2million players to play together though.
Even CoH's story treated it as if you took care of Atlas Park, when you ran all the AP stories, the other enemies were just a combination of mop up for the police and the fact that it was an MMO, so other players needed things to kill. :p
Actually if I read what Doctor Tyche said correctly he's saying there's only maybe 250,000 people in the world total who would be as powerful as a player character in the game. While it's nice to know that number as a bit of "lore trivia" I don't think it would affect the way I play the game either way.

My thought on it, comes more from seeing what players did in CoH (and other MMOs).

If the lore said "There's only 250,000 heroes world wide at the PC's power level" they're going to say it's wrong when there's 100,000 players each with 5 alts. :p Not to mention saying such things as "250,000 PC level heroes world wide, but they're all in Titan City!"

For example, I never took to the idea that Ms Liberty just stood around in AP 24/7. But in RPs, I saw many who would say it that way :p That just seemed dumb to me.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Re-read it, and consider that as the players are more successful, the more possibility for access becomes available, the percentages of the raw total would climb over time. So, while *at launch* only 1.2% of the potential is reached, over time it would creep upwards.

That over time would be years though. Could also be that it creeps down. Could say it just doubled in one day, but that's kinda meh, and it still wouldn't explain why every single hero in the world, settled in one city. Didn't make since in CoH either :p

Yes, some cities in comics tend to get targeted more, over others, but there were still other big cities getting targeted.

Realize, even WoW rarely has 250,000 players logged in at once. If this becomes an issue we have to worry about, this is a good problem to have indeed.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Realize, even WoW rarely has 250,000 players logged in at once. If this becomes an issue we have to worry about, this is a good problem to have indeed.

See I told you as soon as we started to peg you down to specific numbers you'd run into trouble lol.

Like you said that would be one of those "problems" you wouldn't mind having anyway. :)

What if they were a quarter-million website hugs?

Be Well!
Fireheart