How about having fishing as a combination currency sink, time sink, and mini-game?
So to do fishing the player buys a temporary power with maybe 20 casts. They position their character at the edge of a likely body of water and hit the Fishing temporary power. Between five and ten seconds later, their fishing rod deflects and they have three seconds to hit any key. If they depress a key within three seconds, they have a 1:5 chance of hooking a fish and reeling it in.
There could be twenty different kinds of fish (or even more!).
If they catch 5 of them they get a badge for "Open Reel Novice".
If they catch 10 different kinds of fish they get a badge for "Spinner Extraordinaire".
If they catch 15 different kinds of fish they get a badge for "Junior Master".
If they catch all 20 different species they get a badge for "Master Fisher".
It costs ingame currency but the only rewards are the badges, so it functions as a currency sink. The odds of catching a fish are slim, but reasonable enough that they should catch at least one fish with their 20 casts and possibly two or three (theoretically 4, but knowing computers and random number generators I'm betting the overall average for any individual will be between 2 and 3 even with a strict 1:5 ratio for successful reels). If there are 20 kinds of fish and no more than five kinds are available in any given body of water, then they must pursue their hobby over an extended time providing both an alternative to running missions and an additional way to spend time while playing. With only four badges and no other awards, only diehard fishing fans and badge hunters will even bother.
I can foresee fishing tournaments among small dedicated groups of players and if the "fish" returns a size along with the species I can even foresee people bragging about their successes to their fishing buddies. To encourage this, perhaps successful catches could be saved in a Fishing Journal that can be accessed from the same action (right click in CoH) that gives info about the player such as power pools and bio block.
Whaddya think? "Catchy" idea?
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I know that fishing mini-games seem to be fairly popular in other MMOs. For instance ESO has a whole system for different types of water and multiple types of bait to catch dozens of varieties of fish. It also has several dozen fishing achievements you can earn. While I'm not absolutely against this idea for CoT I kind of think that maybe there could be some kind of mini-game that's functionally like fishing but maybe is somehow more appropriate for a superhero setting.
Maybe instead of fishing there could be some kind of "famous superhero autograph" system. Let's say the Devs come up with like 100 minor superhero personalities. They wouldn't really need too much more "backstory" than a unique name and costume - think of them like a collection of unique boss-level NPCs. Then let's say they randomly appear at various street corners or minor venues to mingle with the public and sign autographs for a few minutes at a time. The "game" for the player then becomes being able to track down all these minor personalities and get their autographs for their autograph collection. If you want to attach a "money sink" to this the various personalities could always charge varying amounts for their pictures/autographs and obviously some of them can be far more rare to find than others and so forth.
How about that as an alternative?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
No thanks. It would not interest me in the least, even though it is thematic. Probably not much different than how some people would respond to the existence of a Fishing Temp Power. Some would ignore fishing. I'd ignore autograph collecting. Too elitist, and you know how I feel about elitism.
Besides, the fact that Fishing would be completely unexpected was for me, part of the charm factor. It is so completely outside the comic book scope of things, and yet, I can easily imagine Wolverine taking a fishing trip as a way to relax, and maybe even Charles Xavier. Yep, I can easily picture the good professor with a camo wheelchair and a sun hat covered in lures.
Variety is the spice of life, after all!
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YMMV of course, but calling a collection of autographs "too elitist" is a weird criticism considering you were mentioning having a "fishing journal" where you could show off your lucky fishing catches to other players. I don't really see too much difference between these ideas in that regard.
Anyway even if the Devs decide they want to add some kind of mini-games to CoT I'd suggest they not worry about them too much until after launch regardless. I can live without diversions for a while as long as I have the "main" game to play.
P.S. I've been playing ESO fairly regularly for a year now and I've yet to give its fishing system a serious try. I keep telling myself I'll try it eventually but never seem to get around to it. If I had to make an educated guess (based mostly on how much I see it mentioned in zone chat) I'd have to say that less than 5% of the playerbase ever bother with it. Just keeping things in perspective.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Best fishing (in a game) story I've ever heard of came from none other than Richard Gariott during the Tabula Rasa War College event ... where we got invited to the NCSoft offices for a sort of open house day and meeting the Developers and seeing what they were working on for the future (got to meet [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/CuppaJo]CuppaJo[/url] and [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Cricket]Cricket[/url] and [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Manticore_%28Developer%29]Manticore[/url](!) who all worked in the building).
As Richard was showing us around, in one part of the hallways he had copies of all the games he'd ever made ... including one that was "saved" onto paper tape using punch holes in the paper (think reel to reel [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card]punch cards[/url] if it helps). Anyway, while we were there and looking at the various iterations of games that began his fortune, he related a story about fishing in Ultima Online that completely blindsided and baffled the Developers in terms of how huge it got and the amount of attention paid to it.
So what had happened was that there was fishing support added to the game that works much like you'd expect. Go to water, use fishing pole, hope you catch something. Extremely simple and basic, no frills, blah blah blah.
Except that's not what the Players were reporting and talking about on the game forums. Instead, there was something of a craze for "lucky spots" where Players could fish and have better than average chances of catching something. Community Reps reported the craze to the Developers and the Developers were like ... "wait, what?" ... and dove into the code and began datamining to see if there was something (*ahem*) "fishy" (*cough*) going on.
Turns out there wasn't. The fishing results were essentially 12 LINES OF CODE that came down to a coin toss for success ... a simple 50/50. But there was no streak breaker function and the random number generator was capable of yielding biased results over finite periods of time for a discrete series of attempts. All of this combined to create a sort of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias]Confirmation Bias[/url] that leads to wishful/mystical/magical thinking that manifests when attempting to find patterns to random events over which people have no control ... things like ... fishing. Even though the odds of success were a straight 50/50 with no bias in the code, the Players became absolutely CONVINCED based on their observations that some locations were "luckier" than others and believed that the location at which you fished at could influence your success rate when fishing.
In effect, the coin toss of fishing in the game spawned a RELIGION concerning how to manipulate the game world in the most favorable way possible, complete with rituals (do A, B, C, D, in that order) in order to "ensure" best results. And Players who joined the "fishing cult" absolutely believed the tenets of the faith that gave them more favorable results than anyone else who went fishing.
12 LINES OF CODE.
Richard Gariott, Starr Long, and everyone else following us on that part of the office tour was just as astonished as we were, hearing that story ... because it was so simple. It was an event that kept Richard and everyone who worked for him mindful that you can never really anticipate how even the simplest features (and a coin toss is pretty darn simple!) added to a game can be re-interpreted by the Players due to insufficient information (the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant]blind men vs elephant[/url] story comes to mind) in ways that result in emergent behavior [i]and beliefs[/i] among the Players and harden into becoming conventional wisdom ... even though the conclusions are wrong. Even after the Developers tried to explain that the conclusions Players were coming to were inaccurate, the Developers were not believed, because ... evidence!
Needless to say, the "evidence" being provided was nothing more than statistical noise produced by a pseudo-random number generator ... but that was enough for Confirmation Bias to set in and harden into becoming conventional wisdom that everyone "knew" to be true.
Anyway ... any time that someone offers up a Fishing Mini-game, I'm always reminded of the story of the 12 Lines Of Code that spawned a Cult Of Fishing by simply tossing a coin without letting Players see the coin being tossed.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
And people wonder how "real world" religions get started...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm thinking of what kind of fish would be coming out of the water. Most major cities the waterways aren't very heathy. Add to that there comic book type disasters, toxic waste, alien goo...
I can see it now.
*relaxing on the dock fishing. Then a tentacle comes out spanning the size of a building and the rest of Lusca rises.* Sigh okay lets go fishing I miss the 8 tentacle girl. That or fish men (mentioned already in some of the lore if I remember right). Mutated sharks,,, the list goes on.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
Blinky for teh win! ;)
[img=200x200]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/8/87/Blinky_Art.png/revision/latest?cb=20120326002951[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
From a more reasonable side.
Thought yes fishing is in other games. I even have fishing Mod for my skyrim. I don't see it for City of Titans, as stated really how often do people fish in a Major city? There be other games I can see some swindler type games on the streets. Arcade games in shops. Heck even possible driving like games.
The majority of games with fishing is based on fantasy where there some kind of gain from eating or crafting from basic resources. For a Superhero MMO? My vote is no there no way Spider Man fishes for trout out the Hudson River.
Bravo Lothic I think you won the Internet with that.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
Fishing in game does not sound like an event for a superhero game...unless...
One spot that's all about the hero taking some time off and going fishing. You fish and wouldn't you know it...you just caught a 200 FT giant lizard!
Ahh, but replace fishing with something else that you can do "during combat downtime" and you have something else.
The thing here, is not necessarily fishing but something more appropriate. CoX had its badge huntings, although that became a case of doing everything by rote because the locations for the badges never changed.
But if instead it was in a *range* of locations, it could fit the bill more.
As someone suggested: Autograph collection. As long as the heros moved location, it would work quite well.
"rescue 5 random cats for an achievement" stuff could work... there are lots of *small* things that you can do that help out. We had the burning buildings as an example in CoX. Now if there was MORE content like that, it would help out. Not *directly* mission content, but more "living content" in the game world.
Tie rewards/achievements (in tiers)/titles into completing X/Y/Z number of these events/rescuing X/Y/Z cats etc and people will do them... whilst in between doing their instanced content.
People fish in the waters of NYC. While in San Francisco I saw signs all along the bay warning fishermen what fish to not eat if caught. If there are any fish in the water,there will be fisherman. I doubt Titan City's waters would be any different than other cities with bays.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
I think the problem with the autograph idea is, you're going out and getting autographs. :p Something Spider-Girl may do, but not something you'd see Warbird do.
Likewise you could always ask how many superheroes would fish... ;)
Clearly any kind of mini-game that's "purely optional" is only going to draw a subset of the playerbase no matter what the activity is.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Exactly, but that's why fishing works in fantasy settings...it's something every is likely to do for food. :p
Badge Hunting, while I didn't care for the idea of being an IC thing like some did who would just pretend to flash all these badges they earned...at least could more easily seen as an OOC thing.
I thought RIFT had an amusing pop at MMO fishing. As it was originally done, there was a quest in the dwarven area where they gave you some dynamite and ...
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team and Forum Moderator[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
If there was a Secret ID Game going on in parallel to all the superheroic stuff, I could envision "off duty" Supers taking some time off to go relax at a pier and do some fishing. Heck, there could even be "civilian missions" to go catch some fish to turn into an NPC as a repeatable mission. For extra bonus points, it could even be done up under the rubric of "Community Service" along with a bunch of other potential activities.
Mind you, my first thought in that direction would be using such a framework as a means to gather up Leads and Clues so as to create new Super ID Missions.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Instead of fishing or autographs, how about "clear a building" for hero side. The mini game is you go to certain buildings marked on a map at certain times and the object is to get to the penthouse (final boss) by clearing each floor. almost like a generic mission but with badges for each floor and such. Would be a solo/duo only style adventure and each "level zone" could add more floors or tougher NPCs. Could do a version for villains with the added feature of planting bombs on each floor. Example: Plant 3 bombs on the third floor but you have NPC's trying to hinder you.
I'll go fishing if I get a Heart container for a 10 lb fish and a golden scale for a 15 lb fish.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
In fantasy games, you take a pole and go fish in a river.
In superhero games, you patrol the bad part of town and street sweep.
What? Too obvious?
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Hmmm, I was just thinking that fishing is something a superhero would probably do for recreation. I could see this and other minigames provide a little boost to the reserves of a character.
The fun part about meeting Manticore is that both Red and I reacted the same way...
[youtube]gXN1yxax448[/youtube]
As for fishing, the story I remember (from an article) about fishing in Ultima Online (IIRC) was how Richard noticed lots of folks who would just sit there and fish all day. Then, when evening rolled around, they'd sell the fish, go to the bar, pay the fee, and just hang out with their friends chatting. They were just using UO as a hangout, not even bothering with game progression or anything. Moral: [i]players will do things you don't expect, and this is fine.[/i]
Which reminded me of the fisherman in [i]Sword Art Online[/i], a guy who wasn't there to beat the game, just to fish...
[youtube]_IJUIeC7b_w[/youtube]
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
fishing....really? okay...I'll take a pass on that one. to far out of element for my tastes. if something like fishing was to be put in, I hope it's something that 'fits' the genre a lil more. I have no examples at this time as I am a superhero and I don't have time to do recreational thngs.
superhero'ing is not just a job...it's a lifestyle!
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
Compromise, fishing emote
I am okay with a fishing emote! Just not a mini game. :p
I won't likely fish unless there are really cool prizes but I'm not against it.
Just be aware that THIS is what it's going to look like:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Hey, I never claimed to be sane! ;-)
Some days rational thinking is just too much work.
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Okay, now I've read through the entire thread. Gosh, got some real negative vibes here. Several folks completely missed the point, making me wonder if they just read the subject line.
1. It's designed to be unpopular
2. It's designed to be unexpected
3. It's designed to be neither heroic nor villainous
The strengths of the version I described in the original post would be:
1. It is a completely optional activity that has almost zero impact on gameplay. Got that? It is completely useless. That is intentional. FOUR badges that would probably take several months to achieve. So pointing out that it has no relation to the main game is not a downside, it's actually a plus because that is kind of the whole point.
2. It would be extremely simple to program. It would take more than 12 lines of code, but as envisioned, it would take less than one full day to implement. Less than one day. There doesn't even need to be a graphic for the fish, just the pole. It would take exactly the same amount of programming as a fishing emote would. Well, okay, it might take one or two more hours to add the Fishing Journal to the character object along with methods that update it, but that's it.
3. It would cost ingame currency to buy the temporary power and there would be nothing the player received in return that could generate ingame currency. It's not for consuming, selling, or enhancing the character. It's just something to do after you've run the "Defeat all Rooks in Map 2173489" a hundred times because your buddy is desperate to get the "King of the Chess Board" badge for defeating a million Rooks but you really don't feel like logging out yet.
4. Titan City has a bay, a dockyard, a marina, dozens of lakes or ponds, and as I recall, two rivers. Countless places to spend ten minutes tossing a line in the water to see if you catch anything. Granted, fishing in the Hudson is a really bad idea, but the Missouri River runs through hundreds of medium-sized cities where people fish regularly. So does the Ohio River and the Mississippi. Denver has fishing on the Platte River, and many cities north of San Francisco have fishing on the Sacramento River and its tributaries. New York is not the entire world.
Now I don't mean to be argumentative, nor am I demanding the inclusion of my idea for a 20 cast temporary fishing power. I'm just defending the idea from all the negativity.
It's supposed to be oddball. That's kind of the whole point.
And I'm sorry, but I still don't like the autograph idea. Not even a little bit. On the other hand, given time, I suppose it would be possible to do both. The autographs would take a lot more programming, I think. Probably at least a couple weeks. All of those NPCs would have be created and added to the lore in order to give their autographs value. The value of fishing is not dependent on changes to the lore, nor does it require creating an entirely new class of NPCs. Just a pole, an animation for casting, an animation for the deflection that indicates a fish strike, and an animation for reeling. A couple of timers, an extra set of string arrays for the Journal, and a couple methods to update and display the Journal. The Journal doesn't even need a special graphic, just a simple text window. A Temp Power object with a pointer to the animation group.
Quite a bit beyond my own level, but should be simple for someone already familiar with UE4 and the game's source code.
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It's less that it's a simple idea and more that there would be some players (not me) who would feel they have to do it to complete everything they can complete and yet not feel like playing a superhero mmo.
Fishing emote as a RP civvie thing? WHOOT!
Having to fish to earn badges? BOO!
The mini games should fit more in with the setting of the game.
Sorry X but I'm going to have to go with Greyhawk on this one.
I'm not going to do it much but even I want something different once in a while.
and the point is to give people a wide variety of things to do in this game so they don't go play some other game.
As for the Badge, I'm not a badger so I have no opinion.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
...not to pick on you specifically, buuut....if ya want to do something different, then play something else. I can't imagine a more genre breaking thing than "fishing" in a superhero mmo...wait...no, I can...curling! hell, if we get fishing then I want curling too! what? some folks are from the north and like cold weather sports. makes as much sense as fishing. :p
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
Curlers scare away the fish, when I'm ice-fishing.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Ice-fishing and curling! Great suggestions! Seriously. These would make great seasonal temporary powers. Although curling as a temp power would be somewhat challenging to program. It is a team sport, after all.
It would be interesting if seasons changed in Titan City the way they do in northern cities. I'm not sure that's part of the game design just yet though. I suspect the UE4 engine has that functionality already built in, but I haven't really looked into it deeply enough to know for sure. If so, and if the lakes and ponds freeze over in winter, then the Fishing Temporary Power would have to trigger Ice Fishing animations during the winter season, which complicates the programming a bit. A major consideration of my original idea was coming up with a design that would be fairly trivial to program.
There is much to consider here.
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Lots of planets have a North!
^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Eh? What does the rotational moment cross product have to do with this?
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
On a slightly more serious note ... any sort of "fishing" that ties into any other set of game mechanical systems (including Vendor Bait) relegates any sort of fishing activities to being a Gathering Skill ... like Mining or Herbalism ... or whatever. Before going to the "expense" of building a set of rules allowing PCs to go fishing, there needs to be a PURPOSE behind undertaking the activity, even if that purposes is merely to act as a time sink (you know, like REAL fishing!). That's because the inherent implication of an activity like fishing (or mining or herbalism) is to Get Stuff which than then be used for Other Stuff in a crafting context. Even if it's something as simple a Catch Fish followed by Cook Fish so as to Sell Fish, there needs to be a purpose ... a goal ... in mind before going all willy-nilly on making a fishing system.
Even if that design goal isn't the one that Players use to justify undertaking the activity, there still needs to be a rational/logical reason in there somewhere to justify creating the added complexity in the first place. Why? Because Developer resources are finite ... even if all they're doing is adding 12 lines of code.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
You didn't quote my whole post. If you had, the answer to your question would have been right there:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I'm with whitepergerine on this. What does fishing have to do with superheroes? Now, a 'working for a newspaper' mini-game -- that has precedent in the genre. I can see an emote that folks might use occasionally, but anything beyond that seems to me to be either randomly out of context or a bad ROI.
Spurn all ye kindle.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Yeah - I'm all for the idea of minigames - but fishing specifically? Meh. Doesn't really fit very well with the setting in my opinion.
This is why I prefer to think of these kinds of "harvesting" mini-games as involving things like Photography (generates Leads that can be used to assemble Missions) or Interviewing/Reporting (talking to "man on the street" stuff that involves interacting with civilians). Take this kind of [b]INF[/b]ormation Gathering even further and you start getting into things like monitoring communications (ham radio?) as well as data "mining" using computers and communication networks.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Fishing and curling are good. Rowing and yachting are also popular in the Boston area in real life.
As far as recreational minigames go, fishing would not be my first choice but I know some people would like it, as long as there are alternatives: card games, firing range games, sports, etc? Maybe extreme cagefighting and beast baiting for villains. It would be a BIG plus if you could cash in your points scored for cash or temp freebies, or maybe gamble on others playing, PCs and NPCs?
As for the autograph hunting, it could be quite funny depending on the nature of the celebrities or notable people you have to meet. Maybe as a villain you have to corner celebrities and force them to sign their names in their own blood, maybe steal something personal from them too, then make a fortune selling the items on a black market version of ebay?
If these minigames were not just for show but were a good way to make in-game currency, then I like the idea.
"TRUST ME."
The biggest issue with autograph hunting I have is this: Why would I want to hunt autographs if my character is supposed to be the star of his own story? There was talk of not only reaching the same strength as the flagship characters, but also of the players to surpass them and get even better.
And why is fishing not fitting into a superhero game a problem? To me it does not fit in other MMOs either and that does not stop anyone from having fun with it. And most superheros and -villains are ordinary people with superpowers and would have ordinary hobbies. One might even think they would have a big need for a little normality in their lives.
Some form of in game minigame that isn't immediately demanded for game progression would be pretty neat, and tied achievements to them could help provide some semblance of interest beyond a 'minor distraction'. Events can also run in that same fashion, using World of Warcraft's annual fishing extravaganza as an example.
If we're talking whether superhero MMOs and fishing go together, you really just need to look at the various hobbies people have in real life. It really comes down to what would be easier to put into the game, as well as implications such as gambling and the like. That's not to say there can't be more superhero style hobbies to go along with, or just small activities and functions in game that can capture the player's interest.
The choice then comes on whether or not the games here require IGC to play at all, or only on specific events. I would personally prefer the latter, as it means that the price of entry is understandably higher, with the pull of competition and the fact that such a thing isn't happening all the time will prove far more enticing than when you pay for it for every use and it doesn't extend too far beyond that use.
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
Yes it's silly but I don't think you can say it's out of place in light of the tradition
Fishing has a been around in adventure games like Zelda for a long time.
I even fished in Age of Wushu, a martial arts game.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I know that Wildstar will be introducing Laser Tag in its next patch as a "minigame".
No real benefit to it, but you do get to fight another player without it necessarily being "Warriors always win" or "this class is crap for it".
The bonus though? It can happen anywhere in the game world, so you will more than likely see players setting up a "Friday Night Competition at X's bar" style of thing.
No rewards to it, but something *fun* that can be done.
Is it really completely out of context that a super hero (or villain) may fish as a hobby? Is every super-powered individual fighting/causing crime 24/7? After all, cops, fireman, mobsters all have fishermen in their ranks in the real world. Really, any leisure activity we would have in our world wouldn't be out of place in Titan City. I for one, would love to have a working pinball machine(s) as a mini-game.
To Greyhawk, Perhaps it would be better to not have any badges connected to fishing directly. If you put an achievement on it, there will be people who will feel forced to do it. Indirectly fishing could count towards something like "play 10 mini-game badge".
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Whilst not specifically fishing, but I feel that almost game benefits from having something to do in "downtime".
I have been playing Lego Marvel Super Heroes, and one of the mini quests in there is to take certain photographs.
Of course, with it being an open world game (and not an MMO) it was a nice change from the "destroy stuff" and "defeat mobs" style that happens throughout the game world.
Now for an MMO you need to have a more robust system, but I could indeed see "photograph" taking being a way of generating leads, and also possibly additional currency (if you sold them to a news paper).
But for me, this falls into the category of "Stuff to do in downtime".
Just like in Elite Dangerous. For me, my downtime in that game is trading/running combat missions. I normally do exploration which is (for me) time intensive, so having the ability to do something *different* whilst still "achieving" something different is important.
And yes, I know that Exploration is indeed one measure of how "elite" you are in the game, along with trade and combat; but for me, they are all intermingling objectives. More than anything else, because it is indeed an open sandbox, I am perfectly free to swap sides (near enough) at a moments notice and start killing those that I was supporting just a few minutes earlier.
There will be repercussions, but if it means I can dock at a range of systems again, I am all for it.
Yes, when bored, I wouldn't mind de-stressing for 5 to 10 minutes, by trying to help citizens with their everyday chores. Be it protecting Homeless NPC's at a Shelter, or bringing down scaredy cats from trees. For more Honorable points. ;D
Depends what we mean by context. I'm not saying fishing would be a world anachronism, like having a smartphone in WoW would be. Certainly people might fish in the world of CoT (though there is still the question others raised about how often this would actually happen in a city). But I have a hard time advocating the allocation of resources to a tangential activity that is not part of the genre itself, at least not until all the rest of the core, genre-related elements are in the game. I'd hate, for example, to see a release that added a fishing mini-game before all the classes and specs, clue and leads systems, etc are live. 4 or 5 years down the line, when we have most of the superhero-related things sorted? Sure, I'd have no problem with that.
Spurn all ye kindle.
In their Super ID, it would be remarkably out of place to be hanging out at the pier fishing for trout.
In a Secret ID, however ... that's different ...
I will remind everyone that from the beginning I've been advocating for a Design Space to be created in which PCs can live "double lives" of both their Super ID and their Secret ID. That way, City of Titans isn't just all supers all the time. Indeed, I would even put such "mode switching" down as a potential way to get past certain obstacles or achieve certain things which would be "inappropriate" in the other mode. That way, you aren't JUST playing Batman ... you're also playing Bruce Wayne ... because there are some things that Bruce can do that Batman can't ... and vice versa ... even though they're both the same person.
Even if that Design Space can't be completely filled out in time for game launch, I'd still want to at least Reserve The Option so that it could potentially be picked up later. If the option doesn't get reserved early on in the design and implementation of the game, it could (and would) be a much bigger and more expensive challenge to retrofit it on later ... complete with all the attendant Kludge Factor considerations that could preclude such an option ever being realized.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Rescuing cats from trees would be a nice change of pace on occasion.
Showing up at a homeless shelter and helping out might not be such a bad thing either, although rather more difficult to implement.
Taking photographs as a way of developing or gaining new leads is a fine idea, and probably not too onerous once the basic systems are all in place.
Even the autograph gathering, although not at all attractive to me personally, might be worthwhile eventually. However, since the player's character is supposed to be the star of their own show...? I don't know. To me it just seems even more bizarre and out of place than my fishing idea.
Again, I'm very specifically NOT advocating for fishing as a form of resource gathering or harvesting. I am NOT advocating that fish be bought and sold in the Auction House, to vendors, used as crafting material, or anything else along those lines. All of this kind of functionality transforms the idea from a simple implementation to a major game mechanic and I would definitely not want to see Fishing as a powerset. That would be silly.
I'm advocating for a very simple to implement temp power that doubles as both a time sink and a currency sink but still provides an unexpected type of game play that many people will find attractive.
Temp power
Easy to implement
No relation to game mechanics
No real rewards
Available for sale from vendors, but never received as a drop
Entertaining alternative to primary game designed for use in small moments of downtime
Waiting for your friend to log in? Fire up the temp power, drop a line in the water and see what you can catch.
Tired of farming with your guild/clan/supergroup? Fire up the temp power, drop a line in the water and see how it goes.
Got ten minutes before you log out and nothing to do? Fire up the temp power, drop a line in the water and maybe add to your Fishing journal.
Some folks are taking this suggestion to places I never intended for it to go. And they're right, those extremes are both unrealistic to implement and unnecessary to the game; not to mention far outside the assumed parameters of the genre. That's exactly why I proposed it as a temp power with no real rewards and no real impact on either combat or the economy (except the very minor currency sink aspect).
It's just a fun little sidegame, easy to implement, easy to ignore, with a couple of minor benefits on the design side (currency sink and time sink), and yet still entertaining enough that a certain subset of players will be thrilled to find it available.
Why a fishing temp power instead of something like a golf temp power, or a bowling temp power, or a softball temp power, or a tennis temp power, or a gambling temp power, and so on? Because it's easier to implement and it uses map areas that already exist.
Will I refuse to play if they don't implement it? Of course not! I have never made that suggestion and never will.
It's not a demand, just a suggestion, and one I happen to be very fond of 'cause I thought of it myself. (^_^)V
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My author page at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2MPvkRX
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Not every super human has a secret identity. And really, would they be any more out of place at the pier fishing then standing in line with other heroes having a costume contest?
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Depends on if it's a fishing costume contest or not.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Fishing. Really? Has the ESO bug bitten THAT hard?
The first time I see a Fishing minigame in CoT I'm going to launch a tirade about wasted programming time and resources.
I understand the appeal of trying to make a game that has something for everyone. It's a marketing thing. However, are we going to have any arcade games? People still play those. How about auto mechanics? My friends like to tinker with cars in their spare time. Maybe doing it in an MMO would encourage them to play a game instead of doing it in real life. You don't want to slight anyone you know...might cause a scene. We wouldn't want the SEVEN people that MIGHT want that Housepainting minigame to get mad and ragequit would we?
Seriously, many people play games because being in the game lets you do things OTHER THAN what you do in real life. My Mutant powers never matured and I missed out on Radioactive Accident Day at school so I play games instead.
You want to go fishing? Unplug, get outside and go fishing for Heaven's sake.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
First of all what is ESO?
second, I have gone fishing in real life and because of the experience I can assure you that there is no force imaginable that can get me to do it ever again. But I will play a fishing minigame if I'm in the mood.
Those other minigames sound cool too but lets save them for updates we don't want to set our expectations too high for launch. The devs are only human.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
You know, I get the sarcasm and hyperbole, but really, you are going quite overboard there.
Actually I would love working arcade games. Cool thing is, the engine is designed to allow things like that so the wasted resources issues doesn't really apply, or at least not as much as you think. I don't think anyone advocating mini games is really expecting them to A) be there at launch or B) put ahead of more important things like getting all the specifications out.
Are you advocating no mini-games at all? Or are you just opposed to anything a "normal" person can do as a mini-game.?
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
There are other games that have a fishing mini game, lotro for example
Elder Scrolls Online. [url=http://doctorapocalypse.kinja.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-fishing-in-elder-scrolls-online-1546458958]See here for details.[/url]
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
I don't mind fishing in fantasy MMOs...or even in something akin to WildStar. A superhero MMO? It feels like a meh idea.
If it doesn't lead to anything but just an emote and actually reeling in a fish, not so bad. But something akin to a badge? Not to fond of that.
What's the big deal about the badge.
I mean come on in COH we had badges falling out of the sky for every activity and mot of them didn't mean a thing.
why does anyone mind if a badge is attached to fishing
Hell there probably would've been a badge for potty training if you could use the bathroom doors in COH.
That's not even an exaggeration, when I first started using AE I must've gotten 30 badges for absolutely nothing.
I was freekin raining badges.
I got one for making my mission, one for testing my mission, one for beating a bad guy in an AE mission, beating a bad guy while testing a mission, scratching my butt while testing a mission, everything.
When I started collecting explorer badges, I was already half done because I'd gotten half of them just for looking around normally while playing.
So really what is the big deal about putting another badge in the game?
I thought you people wanted badges for everything you did.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Clearly you don't bother to glance over the posts in the threads you respond to - I mentioned fishing in ESO back in the second post to this thread. Given the context of what we're talking about here it should have been pretty easy to guess that it was another MMO game of some kind.
For what it's worth I actually agree with your point here about not caring whether there would be badges related to fishing in CoT or not. It's almost certain there would be at least a few badges related to it, and if that happened then the big-time badge hunters would likely spend the time to earn them like they would any other badge in the game. Worrying about badges attached to a mini-game is not the main concern/problem with all this. Trust me: standing around for a few hours in-game to earn some fishing badges would be far, far easier than re-earning the hardest badges from CoH ever would/could be.
I still believe the question is whether fishing even fundamentally "fits" well enough with a superhero game to begin with. Too many other "fantasy MMOs" have already used the idea - do we really want to copy them when it comes to something like this?
I understand that for the purposes of a generic "time killer" or "secret ID activity" it probably makes as much sense as any other off-the-wall suggestion for a mini-game. But let's not forget that it's still going to be an amazing struggle for the CoT Devs to even release the "main" game let alone anything extra, especially considering the totally "unrelated to superheroing" nature of this particular suggestion.
At the very least if fishing (or anything even remotely like it) ever happens in CoT it better come as some kind of post-launch update instead of something prioritized to happen at launch. It's simply far too tangential to the main focus of the game to deserve any more attention than that.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Goes out on my lakeside penthouse in Independence port, pulls up a chair, gets fishing gear, gently plops it in water, a little while later I feel a tug, start to rope it in.....
Welp, I'm gonna need a bigger pole =3
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
I'm sorry but given the general rough/industrial nature of IP the only thing I thought of when you mentioned having a "lakeside penthouse" there was the irony of having a hotel on Mediterranean Avenue in [url=http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Monopoly/Official_Rules]Monopoly[/url]. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I take it that Mediterranean Avenue is one of the first 2 locations after the GO square?
I normally built these up along with the green locations (the ones before the 2 most expensive board locations) because it made going past go a mine field....
I try to pretty it up and make it seem nice but it's actually on top of a factory right next to the toxic Lusca infested river ='(
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
I dunno. Maybe if I had a super-cute sparkly book to keep them in?
Nah.
Better than fishing, though. PleasePleasePlease no repetitive mind-numbing tasks added for the disingenuous sake of "added play hours."
If our devs started considering stupid transparent sinks like fishing I'd be surprised and . . . disappointed.
It all depends as to what (if any) reward there is attached to it is.
If the reward is (relatively) minor of sorts (badge/temp power achievement etc) style of thing, I wouldn't actually be opposed to it.
If the only thing you can really do in the game is "kill stuff", and that is it unless you spent real money, then I would be inclined to just log out when I am bored.
And don't forget that COX had badges that could only be obtained by not playing that character (Day Job badges). For me, if I was badger but not an alter I was basically forced to "not play the game" to get them....
True I don't always read all of every post.
In fact there are some people who's posts I seldom read all the way through because they tend to be long and boring.
Also sometimes I stop reading when they get real technical and go over my head.
and I also stop reading when they start talking in detail about crafting or PVP or team strategies or or the weather, basically anything that doesn't interest me.
finally if a thread has been going on for a long time and I only take an interest after about 30 or comments have been posted, I often just read the opening post and the last few posts.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I think the core problem is that fishing in these two different settings equates to their function within society. In a fantasy setting a vast majority of adventurers and commoners had to be self-sufficient. Fishing was a big part of that, as the somewhat relaxing act of fishing yielded food and resources to trade/use. With the modern day, fishing as a job, for the sake of food and resources is handled by teams of people who can pull in a great deal more fish than one guy with a stick. Self-sufficiency is far less common, so one person with a fishing rod is more likely to be a hobbyist.
So, the difference between the two settings would be that in a fantasy setting, fish would be retrieved for crafting and consumables that would help in the long run, with a fishing skill being increased so that you might get better fish in the future.
In the superhero setting, you wouldn't get fish, but rather rack up points based on the type, size and weight of the fish caught, then toss it back. There might be a random chance to pick up items (or maybe Leads/Clues) by simply fishing, but the act of doing so would be far more relaxed. Badges would be earned based on how long you fish/what you catch and hold a pseudo-competitive angle for groups of people to fish together and maybe converse while they do so (with decent RP potential for sure).
No doubt fishing is suited best for the fantasy genre, but I wouldn't say fishing is completely out of the question for a superhero setting.
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
Someone must have been playing the Breath of Fire RPG series recently... fishing in this style (points based) is what they use as a ranking system.
The thing is, even here, in a fantasy RPG it is *purely* optional. You can complete the game without picking the fishing rod up for a handful of occasions. And yet if you put time, time and more time into it, you can get (slightly) better optional stuff from it.
But the point is though:
If "optional" activites are to be disregarded from development, then I would say (depending on the point of view) that the player side mission creator should not be developed, as it only carries more problems in the long run.
HOWEVER, I do feel that having "optional content" is pretty much essential for the game. This can range from minigames through to "gathering resources" through to a mission creator through to SG base/housing stuff.
The minigames are generally "easier" to do, especially if you stick to stuff that get used elsewhere.
So whilst you might have a mechanic in the system where you have to match pairs up to unlock a door (its a code combination lock for example without a time limit). you can then have a larger minigame in the real world to do the same thing with a time limit. There is no penalty for failing.
But you might be able to get something as a reward.
The thing is, and this is evidenced by what seems to be a lot of people out there: There more varied stuff out there, that there is to do BEYOND "go. hunt. kill skulls" even just in the basic quests, the better it seems to be.
Well if I had my way I'd cram CoT full of all sorts of optional mini-games (including some version of fishing) because at that point why not?
My main concern is that we must continue to accept the reality that it's going to be semi-amazing if MWM can get the "main" game up and running as they plan to let alone anything that could be considered purely optional. With that in mind the Devs of this game need to be super-extra careful about spending any additional time/resources on things that aren't deemed absolutely essential for the basic functioning of the game. If the game manages to survive its launch well enough then sure let them throw in all sorts of "diversions" after that.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
+11111111111111111
So the overall answer to the thread is, Yes indeed, too crazy. For now...
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
But I never expected it at launch anyway.
It's just something I thought it would be nice to look forward to.
So until we have it, or the devs say no, I can still hope.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Oh agreed in that they should get the basic frame work up and started, but stuff like this *should* at least middle in the priority list.
For a long time, when I was bored of killing mobs in CoX, I just logged out.
If there wasn't a reason to keep me in the game, bar using it as a glorified chat room (which was semi pointless, as I had the people I wanted to talk to via OOC means as well).
But even so, even having one or two small things like this at the *start* would be helpful.
If anything, these minigames can help flesh out new ideas for power sets/mission structure for example.
Ya know what would be fun? Catch too many fish and you could summon an Aquaman lookalike called fish guy, who will take your fish, dump them back into the lake and proceed to to beat you with a fish (melee specialist: mace. DM's just paint a fish in its place).
Fish guy will say things like, "Fish are friends not food!" as he beats you senseless.
Fish guy: Ultimate Boss. once spawned he will go after all PC's fishing. If he get beat down he will call a sea monster to teach us all a lesson.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Well there were some mentionings of Fishmen here and there...
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Its Beginning to look a lot like Fishmen (song)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tTHn2tHhcI
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Carp Melee again?
Be Well!
Fireheart
Sharp Pointy Fishy Thing.
(the "Vibro-carp" from Tales of the Floating Vagabond).
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
I would not find this fun at all.
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I'd think it was hilarious
He could be like the chicken attack in Zelda
He wouldn't actually hurt you but you couldn't hurt him either
and he wouldn't stop beating on you till you ran away.
Hey! If you don't do this, then try to include Ruth Buzzi as Gladys Ormphby to beat us with her purse.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Ahh.... Fishing for Lusca.
Before I log off tonight, I just want to add, I am still advocating for a Fishing Temp power with a Fishing Journal and a variety of Fish for the catching!
It is an important alternative strategic pathway with profound possibilities as a currency sink, as a relief from "the grind", and as a supplement to the overall pathway from character creation to completion of the Ultimate Task Force.
Surely somebody on the design team likes the idea!
(Edit, about half an hour later)
Here's an idea. A simple, straight-forward proposal: How much of a monthly commitment would I have to make to the MWM Pubilishing Patreon to insure the inclusion of a Fishing Temporary Power and Fishing Journal as I have described in this thread?
A major objection has always been cost. So how much would it take to cover the cost?
(Edit Two, the next morning)
If this idea flies, and I can make a monthly Patreon commitment to insure Fishing as a Temp Power is in the game, maybe the description could read:
"A Dusty Enalios brand hi-tech rod and reel combo pack manufactured in Port Oakes. Good for 20 casts. Each cast has a 1 in 5 chance of catching a fish."
Continuity FTW! (^_^)V
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If the Devs do this there needs to be an option to anger (leveled to the player) fishmen who will attack. and maybe an Auquaman type hero who attacks the player for eating his friends. if he is beaten he slicks back to summon a kraken and now a giant monster is in the park pond.
Fishing is a hazardous business in a super world.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Personally, I do not like this idea at all.
It is designed and conceived of as a simple temp power with zero impact on the main flow of the game. No combat, no NPC super enemy, no XP, no earned IGC (it's designed specifically as an IGC sink!).
The whole point is for it to function outside of normal gameplay, not as a supplement.
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My author page at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2MPvkRX
My novelty shirts: https://amzn.to/31Sld32
[img]http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tumblr_lzxn7tPtdf1r1069oo1_500.gif[/img]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Guild Wars 2 has some little non-combat "activities" you can do. I think one of them is a drinking game actually. Like your toon drinks beer for some reason, like a drinking contest of some kind. I think it's called Belcher's Bluff. I always wondered about the child-safety angle there. Fishing is at least a little safer.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising