A thought that occurred to me:
What if some mission maps had environment effects that hindered/hurt the player (maybe) and didn't aaffect the mobs native to that environment.
Examples
1. Frozen Wasteland. You fight ice elementals, snow men, Mr. Freeze's henchmen, Blizzard, or whomever. You get slowed to some extent by the cold environment and the driving icy wind frostbites your extremities to the point where you lose some ranged accuracy. The mobs are immune to this, as is anyone who has "ice-based" powers (or whatever that translates to in the game).
2. Its a Sauna In Here. The environment is so hot and humid that endo recovery rates and melee damage are reduced. The Fire Lizards, Lava Men, etc you're fighting are immune as is anyone with heat-based powers.
You get the idea. Specific power sets will get some immunity or resistance tot he hostile environment and the native bad guys will definitely get it. No additional XP or swag for doing these missions just because they have this, maybe they're part of TFs or Trials though in which case the rewards would be greater for that reason alone.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Give me a reason NOT to avoid ever doing missions that Debuff Players.
Gets even worse if it's a case of Debuff Some But Not Others.
This sort of thing was considered for things like Environmental Stuff. Fire Powers get debuffed by Rain, Cold Powers get buffed by Snow ... that sort of thing. The consensus was that too many Players (and not just the Min/Max variety) would simply log off or otherwise not play when it was their "turn" to get Debuffed by the Environment. This was generally considered to be a [b]Bad Move™[/b] as a Game Design Choice.
This is why things like Rain and Fog and so on typically have no [i]game mechanic effect(s) whatsoever[/i] so as to prevent a tilting of the playing field. Makes it hard to achieve "balance" when the game meta deliberately goes out of its way to not play "on the level" with everyone at all times. Gets even worse when you start factoring AVOIDANCE into the equation.
Because I can guarantee you that if the Mobs are buffed up by a winter wonderland, the Ice/Ice/Arctic Powerset is going to expect to get buffed up too by those conditions ... and then you are LITERALLY ON The Slippery Slope ...
Nice idea, and something that's a lot easier to do (and keep fair!) in a Tabletop RPG environment where you've got a Game Master running things using pen and paper. This sort of thing typically translates poorly into MMORPGs ... although there are notable exceptions. The Frostfire Mission in The Hollows was notable for having low friction ice patches that you didn't find elsewhere, which were fun (and disconcerting for newbies) to mess around with.
One way you COULD do this would be as a sort of (huge radius) PBAoE Aura effect of Main Boss ... such that it isn't the "environment" per se that's causing these effects, it's a [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LoadBearingBoss]Load Bearing Boss[/url] powering up everything you fought through. Same effect, different excuse.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
what is balance u talk about i never hear before but i blame demon souls dark soul for the anyways one thing demon soul and dark soul teach me give players risk and reward but if focus risk like Redlynne say peoples would simply log off or otherwise not play when it was their "turn" to get Debuffed by the Environment. u need reward have debuffed
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
[img]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/hinata1032/Kitsune.jpg[/img]
I like the idea, but the practicality of it is problematic.
One example is thus; The Devs have released 4 new missions. Two of those missions are Ice Themed and hinder fire dudes. It being months until new missions come out and "possably" balance the Themes, the fire guys are just screwed.
This can even snow ball, pun intended, to the point where fire themed toons aren't created anymore because they have, hypothetically, 30% more missions than other types of toons that debuff them alone. The reverse being true also, more ice guys are created because they get no debuffs/or buffs 30% more often, hypothetically speaking, of course.
They also serve, who only stand and wait.
I can think of some reasons why people might do something like this, despite the the fact that it's a "bad deal" economically:
1. To get the badge(s) for the mission/TF it's on.
2. Completing the "harder environment" content unlocks something for your SG base/personal lair.
3. It's a Challenge (TM), and some of us like to rise to challenges, not shrink from them. I'm not saying this will be the most popular thing since sliced bread, or that people will WANT to do the thing MORE to farm it, but that is kind of the whole point. The argument that this makes the mission strictly harder than the other options, and thus nobody will want to do it only applies to the min/maxers and those that follow them, in my opinion, and they can ignore it all they like and go do the same damn farms and "best option" content over and over andf over for all I care. I personally like some variety. People on CoX hated long, boring , repetitive missions/TFs/trials but not because they were challenging, because they took too much time, I feel. I was on plenty of failed iTrials that people wanted to try again, and I think the difference isn't difficulty, it's the required time investment. For the last month of that game a group of us Triumph tried to get the REALLY Hard Way badge just because it was there and it was the one thing we wanted to do before the game went dark, just to say we did. I feel like this kind of thing will attract the kind of players that look at something like this and say "Challenge accepted!"
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
There are ways to use environment as part to the advantage or disadvantage of groups while at the same time not making it a blanket effect. A blanket effect results in what Redlynne described, a situation where everyone within the environment are affected, but those with particular builds may be effected less, not at all, buffed, or affected moreso.
If some player builds are not affected as much, not at all, or buffed, is counter to the idea of gaining a reward because the content was intended to be harder. If, say we implement weather into the game, and we make a fog, well the fog may debuff perception distance, but players that took a sensory power like X-ray Vision could switch it on and not be affected. What we could do is check against what some of the sensory powers can do, what their range would be, and then apply something that affects a perception based debuff like fog to limit all perception to the same distance as powers like X-ray Vision. This of course would indicate that X-ray Vision may have a limited range compared to normal perception range due to its additional capabilities. This way, the affect applies to everyone and no one is of a particular advantage due to build. We avoid, "starting the Inferno TF, only Fire armors / buffers allowed!" because the Inferno levels apply a debuff due to excessive heat and you need fire protections to counter the effect.
A situation that equally affects every player would have to, by nature, be a unique situation to be applicable to all players involved. Imagine if fighting against Hamidon, you had to enter the cell membrane (no fighting from outside at all or after some stage in the fight you had to enter). Once within, everyone is affected by an environmental debuff to which there is no counter natively available within any powerset in the game (there may be a special temporary power or inspiration-like effect that works).
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
The only way I could see something like this working would be if there were environmental-control powers which could be used to create/override default ones. Which could be an interesting buffing mechanic, though it would have particular effects on teaming.
A "summon rain" power that hindered fire-powers and enhanced, say, ice powers would be interesting, but would mean that you wouldn't have Firedrake Mallard in the same team as Rain Parade, and your PUG interactions would be all the more complex as you'd have to evaluate whether a given person's environmental powers helps or hinders another's power set. And if Firedrake Mallard and Snowmangeddon wanted to be on the same team, even if they both had friends whose environmental buffs complemented them, their friends' buffs would risk conflicting and...
It's an interesting idea. If we could come up with a way to make it work, maybe we'd try. But I wouldn't count on it; there is already a lot of complexity in what we're doing, and we've got a number of Issues' worth of things that will be in the works even beyond the initial release. So unless somebody has an absolutely ground-shakingly brilliant idea, this is likely not to see implementation for a long while, if ever. Sorry.
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
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<---- not a programmer...
It was just a thought, and I never even imagined that one players AoE might affect (positively or negatively) another's, that's "next level" as they say. And that does sound complicated to implement.
I would also point out that one could design a mission map where the combined effect of the map being "inhospitable" and the mobs being "accustomed to it" but perhaps not as powerful in and of themselves, or not as numerous, might result in that mission being no harder or easier than average. So its an added effect, and it might make life more difficult, but it would only be an additional variable one could have.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I guess it would bother me most if it was an entire power-set that was exclusively de-buffed. I'm fine with a little extra environmental difficulty, though. I think of the ice patches in the Frostfire mission. Not really dangerous in-and-of itself, just somewhat annoying and occasionally humorous. So, something that can make things more difficult for everybody but can be mitigated by smarter play would be fine.
OTH, if in a situation like the above, a character for whatever reason had spent a lot of points on anti-knockdown, or could fly, I think it's ok for them to reap a small benefit from that. No question that it would require some balancing. Doesn't everything? But I agree with the point that you can make any risk worthwhile through appropriate rewards.
If 10% of the players are afraid to do a particular mission just because it's a little harder for one character than another...well, that's a problem that has more than one solution. Swap characters, get the right buff (whether it's bought or from a teammate), adapt your play style, etc. If we design a game to mollify rage-quitters at every turn it won't be much of a game. But if we say "You can get the Ultra-Widget just for completing this mission, or you can buy it for X Stars." Plus it's fun and well-designed, I think that 10% could be wittled down.
When it comes to "enemies acclimated to harmful environment," if the environment isn't imposing active DOT or the like on the players, the easiest way to code it is to just code them as balanced, and claim in fluff that they're stronger here than they would normally be.
Environmental hazard is more likely to take the form of traps and layout concerns, which will generally feel more natural to players and will be pretty even-handed, rather than singling out certain builds. Mostly. Obviously, some layouts may accidentally be easier for certain, say, movement powers to navigate.
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
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What if you had a set of Trials, each of which was inhospitable to a different damage type (fire, ice, energy, dark, etc) and there were badges for each and a badge (or accolade, with a cool accolade power or stat buff) for doing all of them on the same toon? That would be cool. The badge for all of them could be called "Ran The Gauntlet". And the individual ones could award a one-shot temp power or something that's really good if you're the damage type that got "hated on" in the Trial. For example, the one that's really hard for Fire toons to do would give you a thing that enhances the DoT of your powers for a short time when activated, then it's used up and you have to run that Trial again to get another one.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
The most obvious way to increase the likelihood of and Ice person going into INFERNO of MELTING and BAKING is to place at the end a reward that is bound to character that is useful to said character. So to that end, here is my idea.
Every mission that has a hazard of any kind gives a unlock upon completion. This unlock gives you a % immunity to the hazard based on the number of unique missions you've completed with that hazard compared to the total that exist. Not just the completions but each and every optional gives an unlock too. Some unique missions have 4 optionals that only one can be done per mission. Any character that has completed every unlock for that hazard is immune to it. As new missions with that hazard are released they lose a portion of their immunity. This could then be capitalized on in a raid that cycled through hazards throughout the raid and eventually introduced all of them. Players that had partial unlocks would be in a better state then those without and the raid is balanced with the assumption everyone has 100% immunity. Not a raid you want to go into unprepared and it hurts everyone unless they put forth effort.
The line between knowing and understanding is often blurred.
Cute Kitsune the Anti Villain of Phoenix Rising.
I have more fervor then empathy, I still like you.~Me to a friend
It applies here too, I'm passionate not hostile.
Doing a "variety chain" of environmental hazards so as to "rotate the wheel" of buff/debuff sounds like the sort of thing that would make a good deal more sense when doing a unified Story Arc ... or more to the point, a Task Force. You then have a Story Reason excusing these effects and it gets woven into WHY things are the way they are. THAT makes a good deal more sense.
If you're talking one-off repeatable missions, not so much ... so the context of the effort is certainly important here.
Which then raises an interesting side question.
What if there were Task Forces in which the Mission Order wasn't fixed/sequential but rather randomized instead? Could be done as a Intro Mission, followed by a Randomized Four Missions, and then you do the Final Mission to complete the Task Force. Essentially you'd set up the middle four missions of the Task Force to be interchangeable from a writing/plot standpoint and then which one you do in which order is simply random until you've done them all. Thus, although the missions themselves are "the same" every time you run the Task Force (again), the sequencing of them isn't always the same.
Definitely something you have to plan and design for, but it's more a challenge of writing and concept than it is of "technology" to accomplish, necessarily.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Interesting notion, Kitsune, particularly in light of the Really Hard Way Badge angle.
Sure, the Environment will put a nasty Debuff on you!
Here's a Temporary Power that will let you mitigate that problem entirely!
But ... if you voluntarily decline to use that Temporary Power protection ... well, there's a Badge waiting for you behind Door #2 ...
In fairness, this sort of situation existed in the Terra Volta Trial, with the need to go and refresh your Red Bubble periodically. Needless to say, Regeneration types simply ignored the Red Bubble and just healed the damage. Resistance types would often do something similar. Defense builds? No, I'd always be refreshing the Red Bubble.
So the basic idea has merit. You just don't want to make a habit out of using it everywhere simply because you can.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I'm reminded of the Cave of Transcendence, where the lava pits hurt the player with a fire DoT, but healed the pumice if knocked into it. The environmental hazard certainly was biased towards the enemy group, but did not place any player builds at an extra disadvantage.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
There were Orenbega maps in CoX that had those crystals that would emanate damage or endo drain (didn't some of them actually heal you or recover your endo too? I forget). There were also precipices in those maps that would cause you to take damage should you fall off of one or aim your jumps badly.
The idea of immobile, indestructible "traps" that you just have to either avoid or suffer through voluntarily really isn't the same thing as a map where the debuff or DoT is everywhere and thus inescapable.
Another idea I came up with is having this be a thing the kicks in with a timer or other rules in place. For example, if you can defeat the sub-boss in the first mission fast enough, the next map does NOT have the hostile environment, etc. I remember there used to be a rumore that clicking the optional glowwies in the first part of the respec trial caused the last part to get harder, etc. Stuff like that.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
This has more to do with the writing for the story than a mechanic featured regularly. Stop Dr. Gasalot before how unleashes the nerve gas in the office building. If he isn't defeated in time, nerve gas is released into the game map applying some form of debuff. Some builds may deal with is debuff better than others. Its a specific scenario, and this may come up from time to time, not a regular, nearly all factions have some form of advantage and players have a disadvantage thing.
I would go so far as to say that if there is a scenario where there is an effect which benefits one side of an encounter, that is say a particular type of npc, Is already placing the other side, say a player, at a disadvantage. Applying a buff to one side and a debuff to the other could be viewed as a double penalty to the debuff party. Not that is always a bad thing, if used in a power like Kinetics damage debuff for a damage buff, having as an environmental effect applying everywhere is something I believe should be used judiciously.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
"I just figured out what that thing that fell off of me that you destroyed was. It was the morality module the scientists installed when I released neurotoxin into the facilities to test people's reactions to neurotoxin, so that I would not release neurotoxin into the facilities to test people's reactions to neurotoxin. Now that you have destroyed it, I can again release neurotoxin into the facilities to test people's reactions to neurotoxin."
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
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:< I hope CoT Lore has better Writing! :<
Someone just got struck from GLaDOS' Christmas list.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Yeah, Oranbega maps had the Crystal Points that radiated a PBAoE Aura of some kind. They were static and limited in range, making them (potentially) avoidable.
Always wished there was one of those that would Toggle Off any Movement Powers (jump/fly/run) on anyone who entered the radius. Effectively a "sand trap" bubble.
Having "optional" victory conditions that alter the outcomes and storytelling would be interesting. Things like the aforementioned Do This In X Minutes objective to avoid a particular outcome. Trouble with those is, you want to make sure it isn't something that can be "ninja-ed" by sending the Stalker (or equivalent) off on their own to the end of the map to click the glowie to avoid. However, any time you have a branching paths set of events, you're effectively multiplying the "cost" of producing that content (man-hours, quality assurance, playtesting, etc.).
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
The only way I could see this really catching on is if there were several TFs, cold theme, fire theme, ect. that would grant a badge, plus a minor permanent buff against themed power or possibly a choice between an offensive or defensive power of the theme.
I'm not necessarily seeing the problem with this. Splitting up the team to handle multiple jobs seems like a great way to reward teaming in a mission. Could you elaborate on why this would be a problem?
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
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I agree with Segev in the sense that the issue there, if there is one, is that Stealth exists as a power. If you don't want people to be able to Stealthily short certain types of missions, then don't allow it somehow. Either don't have a Stealth power, or make it work in such a way that you can't really shortcut a mission with it usually. One idea I like is having Stealth, but then have some mission maps that have some kind of "laser grids" or "sensors" or whatever which can still detect intruders. Also, things like infravision, x-ray vision, etc might do this, if the NPCs have it.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Don't get me started on MMOs that pretend to have stealth. Let me have it and use it or don't. CoH let me have it as a Def/Emp with full on stealth. Loved it. DDO it takes 1 door and my stealth is rendered useless. DDO has about 5 missions where your able to actually use stealth for clearly stealth based objectives. Any time they want to disallow stealth they add a spider, or bat, or scorpion, or give a creature a detection of yes or, or, or the list goes on.
Everquest I had a level 1 halfling that could corpse run from raid wipes. My heart beat a mile a minute as 1 mistake and I was dead and it was a good 45 minute haul per corpse. I would often do it in legs to pull the group to safe spots then move again. LOVED IT! If I want to complete half my missions without ever killing anything and just stealth through let me. Just don't give me a stealth that works, but only when you go out of your way to allow it to work because you put in to many anti stealth features that even you can't keep track of all of them anymore.
Stealth rant cloaking device engaged, rant no longer detectable, or is it.
The line between knowing and understanding is often blurred.
Cute Kitsune the Anti Villain of Phoenix Rising.
I have more fervor then empathy, I still like you.~Me to a friend
It applies here too, I'm passionate not hostile.
Even CoX had the Knives of Artemis, who could see through stealth powers. I think it becomes a question of balancing how hard it is to become "practically invisible" whatever that means against how useful it is once you achieve it.
I mean, in CoX I mostly just gave all of my toons super speed and got the "+ Stealth" proc for it. That was fine for shorting most "get to the end and defeat the boss" missions. Against the Knives you had to be a little more careful. I think even the best stealth or invis should not allow you to bump up against a mob and remain undetected (unles you also have Phasing or whatever allows you to walk through walls, etc). If you're really just well camouflaged, then getting close enough that they can hear you breathing, smell your body odor, or actually feel you bump into them, then you've been made and it's time to fight it out or run away. Even if you have "perfect invisibility" all that should do is make it impossible for them to SEE you. They can still HEAR, SMELL, and FEEL you. In this way, even mobs that don't have "radar" can sill strategically place a thug or two in every constricted doorway just to make life harder for you, etc. I think in some missions where they're basically expecting you to show up when you do, they'd do that kind of stuff, and/or get themselves some countermeasures, if they have access to such. Depending on the nature of the badguys, some of them might not be smart enough to do stuff like this, but the really intelligent "tac-ops" types probably would. Also, there could be specific powers like x-ray vision, infravision, telepathy, etc that would allow you to be able to detect stealthy mobs as a PC.
I feel like stealth versus perception is a form of metagame arms race and strategy game which could be enjoyable to do sometimes.
You could have a whole series of missions where the mission objectives are all "stealth-shortcut-able" but the amount of work you have to do to get the types of stealth powers and gear you need to actually stealth them escalates, giving you a really nice tour through all the stealth options in the game and how they check and balance each other.
Edit: I find this stealth and perception topic interesting enough to start a new thread about it, because it's off-topic here really.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
It is a nontrivial way of handling it, and our tech department is not sure it's doable (last I heard), but I for one would love our stealth powers to be based around a whole sneaking system that involves lines of sight, fields of vision, and lighting conditions. Stealth powers would allow you to dim lighting, blend with backgrounds, or just make it more obvious to you, the player, where fields of vision lay so that you can avoid them. Stealth becomes an active gameplay mode, with challenges all its own. Making noise "over there" to distract, throwing up smoke screens (literal or figurative), and just plain avoiding being where people are looking are all made easier with better stealth powers. But "invisibility" would only be one, and it might not be the best at the job of "sneaking around."
Again, this is my pie-in-the-sky dream for stealth. I don't know that we can really expect to be able to pull it off.
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
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/derail
Well, (mostly) know what the engine is capable of in this regard, so far as building our NPC perception system is concerned. Have the system for how to interact with perception laid out, what effects do what for power building and such, and what possible counters exist for different stealth-effects.
Part of the technical issue lies with building a comprehensive stealth system that integrates well with our planned map system and spawn placement system. This would include the taking into consideration our various forms of stealth and the effects that can counter stealth. Stealth games are more like puzzles, with each map having one or several options (depending on the game) for how to solve the stealth puzzle. Games that do this well take time to plot out each piece of the puzzle.
While we have those pieces, its the issue of make stealth viable, while not requiring every map to be meticulously planned as a stealth puzzle.
/end derail.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
For what its worth, the "defeat all" missions don't really require stealth or reward it in any big way, so those maps wouldn't matter much in terms of that. And some maps could just be build without stealth in mind so as to allow the players to just go with what works. Only the maps that you want to make somewhat interesting and challenging need to be dealt with from a stealth perspective. Boss fights, maps where there's a glowwie you need to click on at the end, etc. I could see meticulously designing a map with stealth in mind for some TFs and trials, and maybe the end of an arc, but I don't think it has to be all maps all the time. Lord knows the maps in CoX were mostly random, right?
Also, you could make certain type of stealth available at different levels, thus allowing you to make low level maps less well-thought-out and higher level ones maybe more so in cases where appropriate.
This could also be effected by the difficulty settings I guess.
Last but not least, the devs in CoX talked once about how they designed the Hami raids in terms of what strategy they were thinking would work best, and people mostly just used more brute force instead. There's always that reaction.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
We don't plan on making clear all a general thing for game play, it's more of a player choice and one way to earn an achievement for completing a mission, just as avoiding detection. Is another way of earning an achievement for completing a mission. We want to avoid having to create specific content for specific styles of play making each equally available, each mission should be just as viable to support different ways to play, otherwise we have to create specific content to that specific play and make it all equally available so that the player who does like to stealth about can continue to play that way without getting stuck forced into non-stealth missions.
Making specific encounters like a hami-raid is something of a different matter. By its nature it was specific, and had to be designed with particular strategies in mind, its own puzzle if you will. But that type of design wasn't implemented into each and every instance of game play. If it was, there would have been a drastic reduction in the amount of content available.
Yes, there will be times where stealth isn't an option, and times where it may be a particular advantage. It should be a viable form of gameplay in general. It becomes a matter of how to go about achieving this with the systems for level design we plan to implement.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
For instance, a Mind Controller could 'stealth' a mission by putting everyone to sleep and just strolling through.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I like what I hear about stealth and I'm already anxious to try it out.
But to get back to the original topic, I could imagine environmental effects being part of the difficulty settings. A simple check box maybe. When you allow them, the game would randomly surprise you with extreme heat, cold, radiation leaks or something. Sometimes having a certain powerset might be an advantage, sometimes it could be a disadvantage. It would be balanced because it's random and would provide a bit more spice and diversity to the maps.
The NPC's could adapt too, by wearing different kind's of protective gear.
You could always give a little temp power for completing such missions, kind of like the Accolade passives but with a limited duration. Like:
Tundra Acclimation - small boost to ice resistance, +max HP, large boost to slow resistance // immunity to harsh cold weather (harsh cold weather nullifies this power's boosts but you are unaffected by the weather) 1 hour [mission complete], 1.5 hours [mission complete + extra objectives], 3 hours [mission complete + extra objectives + all enemies defeated]
If there happens to be a 'taskforce' you plan to do that has cold weather environments, you might think of doing this mission first.
But my problem with the idea is, what about my natural heroes? What 'weather' do they get where they excel while others are hindered? Is there going to be a Rain of Arrows that my weapon wielding hero is immune to while everyone else is stabbed all day?
And dont forget about Steamy Myst as a non-combat Explorer power.. so you can enter an indoor mission, but want to stealth to the end... so you use the Steamy Myst (20 seconds to activate/animate) at start, and it fills most of the rooms with smoke like Myst 2 or so feet high... and it shows where infrared beams lie... or where drones might be facing/detecting. So you can take an alternate path, if the missions have it rigged to be somewhat dynamic. ;)
Good point, that is indeed a big problem. My solution would be, since natural heroes are mostly very adaptable and/ or innovative, that they never benefit from such environmental effects, but do not suffer as much from them also. It could be assumed that they know how to improvise a makeshift protection against most effects or are just prepared for everything.
Good thing we had our Bat- anti- shark- spray... ;)