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Gunner inquiries

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Zanje
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Gunner inquiries

Howdy all, just curious how people think the Gunner Spec will actually play, just a blaster who can take more of a hit, or going toward a ranged off tank, maybe even ranged tank sort of role? Got to admit the ranged tank has always been a role i have wanted to see in games but sadly one i cant really think of any examples for :-/ This may be the closest thing that comes close to it.

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Gunner will be my first

Gunner will be my first Character (most likely) and Im looking for it to provide an 'Off-Tank' role for large teams, main tank for small teams where there is no Stalwart or Enforcer.
Depends on how tough they can actually be really. Can they take/hold aggro of 5-10 enemies and survive more than 10 seconds? If not then Main Tank probably not.

I see the off tank role for when someone grabs too many mobs like when some Ranged toon - maybe even me - attacks another group by mistake while the first group is still active.
Hunter = "Enemies incoming!! Sorry guys my rocket alerted another group"
Bulwark = "CRAP. I've got my hands full with this mob. Gunner can you grab them while we finish this lot off?"
Gunner = "No worries, just don't take too long don't know how long I can hold them. Ohh and Hunter, your gonna pay the cost to repair my stuff from this. Damn ranged squishies!"

Man I want this game.

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I'm guessing the resistance

I'm guessing the resistance/defense values for the Gunner won't be as good as the melee versions, but that's fine. they will certainly be taking more hits than the partisans and hunters will be. I'm guessing it would play a bit like the VEAT soldier crab-path. Their armor could take a few hits, but you weren't going to last like a scrapper or brute unless you cut down their numbers fast. My main from CoH will probably be reborn as a gunner, as soon as we get them. It fits his character in both concept and preferred play style.

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That sounds pretty nice

That sounds pretty nice though creating a cyber type suit of armor and having guns or cannons on your wrists

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Im not sure the Gunners Def

Im not sure the Gunners Def/Res values will be much lower than the Enforcers as typically ranged damage is less than melee so there is already a trade-off.
If there is a difference I don't think it would be too large.

Examples (base numbers for a typical CoH Defence Set toggle)
Stalwart: 15% - 18.5%
Brute/Enforcer: 11.25% - 13.88%
Gunner: 9% - 11% ????

Obviously some sets had higher values based on what else they provided as well as the other powers in a set that when used together provided total Defence numbers.

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Easy mode solo blaster. This

Easy mode solo blaster. This is what my main will be.

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

Im not sure the Gunners Def/Res values will be much lower than the Enforcers as typically ranged damage is less than melee so there is already a trade-off.
If there is a difference I don't think it would be too large.

That is pretty much what I am thinking when it comes to their resist/defense values. Not that they would be seriously lower, just the lowest of the four specs with a defensive set. That would fit with the idea of can take a few hard hits but keep on blasting without being a dreaded tank mage.

As for the ranged damage being less than melee, what are you basing that on? That's not to say the base damage modifiers for gunners wouldn't be lower than a hunter or partisan to compensate for their survivability, but I never noticed any significant difference between ranged and melee damage potential in CoH. I could be wrong on that point I never delved that deep into the raw numbers for each power set.

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If its like coh, I'm sure you

If its like coh, I'm sure you'll be able to spec it any way you want, to do max damage or absorb more damage or a good mix of either. I'll prolly spec for med damage and max defense. It'll be fun to play a ranged took that can survive a few hits.

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I remember blasters getting

I remember blasters getting force of nature that was like an unstoppable giving the blaster some decent survival

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I'm planning my first (and

I'm planning my first (and presumably, main) character to be a gunner too. A flying power armor type, similar to but not identical to Iron Man (maybe closer to War Machine, using munitions rather than energy weapons). I'd like him to do a lot of explosive attacks (especially through shooting rockets) as his "theme", paired with flying via rockets.

I'm hoping that he'd be good for soloing, and maybe to fill in as either a ranged DPS or off-tank in groups.

As for ranged tank examples, Star Wars: The Old Republic has two ranged tanks... The "Vanguard" Trooper or "Powertech" Bounty Hunter (which are mirror images of each other, the first being part of the Galactic Republic and the second being from the Sith Empire). I'm not sure how "ranged' they are, since they have primarily close-range and medium-range attacks, but they do use guns and aren't your stereotypical melee tank.

The problem is that if you're fighting something that wants to kill you with teeth, fists, or a sword, and you're drawing its attention, it's either going to be in your face or you need to somehow either root it or slow it and run from it as you fight (kiting). For obvious reasons you don't generally want to be able to permanently root a melee-based boss (because you no longer have any kind of challenge since it can't fight back) so you can probably never have a 100% ranged tank. But if you're fighting a boss who also fights from range, yes it's possible to do ranged tanking.

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I remember having the force

I remember having the force mastery with tough and my blaster use to hold his own maybe the rangers will have something like that

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The devs have already stated

The devs have already stated that no archetype will be able to outshine another archetype's primary purpose. So no Gunner will be able to match survivability with a Stalwart.

I'm guessing a Gunner might be able to get up to Gladiator def/res specs, but as has been said: unless they decide to do ranged damage differently than is the norm, merely having the ranged DPS is a type of defense.

Frankly, once testing and balancing is complete, I think we'll see a Gunner who can take a number of hits, but will not be able to survive in the middle of a mob for long (unless he/she takes them all down first).


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I checked Mids from the

I checked Mids from the players perspective from all T1 Attacks comparing Blaster/Corrupter and Scrapper/Brute and averaging the damage:

Blaster = 60.68
Corrupter = 38.69

Scrapper = 59.74
Brute = 39.22

So in fact Player Ranged damages are ever so slightly more than Player Melee damages (based on T1 averages).
This is also affected by the CoH Damage Scales for Melee and Ranged attacks (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Damage). For MOST AT's the Melee Scale was higher than the Range Scale, only the Blaster and Defender had a higher Ranged Scale (which is where my assumption came from - 2+ yr old memory data :().

Looking at the Melee ATs (my most commonly played ATs) all have a slight to large increase in Melee vs Range Scales.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

As for ranged tank examples, Star Wars: The Old Republic has two ranged tanks... The "Vanguard" Trooper or "Powertech" Bounty Hunter (which are mirror images of each other, the first being part of the Galactic Republic and the second being from the Sith Empire). I'm not sure how "ranged' they are, since they have primarily close-range and medium-range attacks, but they do use guns and aren't your stereotypical melee tank.

They aren't ranged, really. As you point out, their primary, heavy hitting attacks are essentially melee ranged. The only reason they can be called ranged tanks is that their weapons are blasters as opposed to the Force-users' lightsaber. This left me a little disappointed, but not surprised. I've no idea how one would make ranged tanking work. It's the same issue as how one could allow ranged DPS to remain at range without trivializing the enemies.

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

I checked Mids from the players perspective from all T1 Attacks comparing Blaster/Corrupter and Scrapper/Brute and averaging the damage:
Blaster = 60.68
Corrupter = 38.69
Scrapper = 59.74
Brute = 39.22
So in fact Player Ranged damages are ever so slightly more than Player Melee damages (based on T1 averages).
This is also affected by the CoH Damage Scales for Melee and Ranged attacks (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Damage). For MOST AT's the Melee Scale was higher than the Range Scale, only the Blaster and Defender had a higher Ranged Scale (which is where my assumption came from - 2+ yr old memory data :().
Looking at the Melee ATs (my most commonly played ATs) all have a slight to large increase in Melee vs Range Scales.

Ahh, that helps, I guess the CoH blaster does throw off the averages just a bit. I'm guessing this is quite different from other MMOs.

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One thing to remember though

One thing to remember though is that melees had survivability magnitudes* greater than Blasters for a long long time -far above and beyond the difference in base damage by mobs. Only Defiance V2 finally allowed blasters to survive a bad afternoon versus solo green minion mezzers if their alpha-strike missed. It also took close real-life friends teaming with you for a group to be willing to wait for tripmines; Scrappers generally just lept right in, and didn't exactly need the help!

I am wondering as to how things will work with range: "sniping" was a 120~150ft affair (somehow) for Blasters, although the average SMG or shotgun cone from mobs could easily reach this, and actual sniper class mobs had "quarter of the map away" ranges. Will "sniping them out of range" be acceptable in CoT (it was not in CoH), when it is as slow and roughly as safe as mezzing an entire group and plinking them to death while they stand helpless for similar speed and safety**?

Highly curious, a little worried but also looking forward to this game.

*quite literally when it comes to controls
**or far greater speed and safety once controllers got their pets at higher levels

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I honestly don't see a gunner

I honestly don't see a gunner as being all that exciting to play. A positional ranged fighter with the defenses to stand next to a scrapper but without the offensive closers or mez tricks that the original blasters had. They won't die as often, that is for sure, and that might be a worthwhile trade off.

They'll be about positioning themselves for maximum AoE usage but probably won't care if enemies close to melee. Tertiary powers might help them fill in a closing attack gap but without that tweaking, they'll likely be good at minion killing only.

Gunners will be in a good position to leverage most if not all of the masteries available though. That might be the key to making them more interesting. Front loaded damage, snipes, or extra finishing power would make for a different kind of playstyle. While depending on the kinds of bonuses Resolve and Suppression provide, could move them into more debuffing or self buffing territory based on their attacks. Time will tell.

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I have two CoX characters I'm

I have two CoX characters I'm definitely making Gunners, and 1 more new idea. This is all due to RP purposes. If I have a guy who has bioarmor and shoots fire, I want his bioarmor to actually work, and be part of what makes him what he is. He doesn't need manipulation nor support powers. In fact, he isn't supposed to have any at all. So I think the Gunner spec is one of the coolest specs they're adding in. I know I'll run into countless situations with range/protection will be just right, and for me, that is exciting.

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LockOn wrote:
LockOn wrote:

I honestly don't see a gunner as being all that exciting to play. A positional ranged fighter with the defenses to stand next to a scrapper but without the offensive closers or mez tricks that the original blasters had. They won't die as often, that is for sure, and that might be a worthwhile trade off.

I think they will be pretty fun to play. My favorite character from GW2 is a warrior specked out with the rifle. So in essence ranged damage and heavy armor. Obviously it's going to play differently in CoT, but the combination is still quite interesting.

With the exception of fire blast, each of the blast sets had at least one mez. For me, I can say Beanbag was essential to my AR/Dev making through most of his solo content from level 8 to 41. As for the offensive closer, there is nothing that stops a ranged attack from working in Melee range.

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I'm really surprised theres

I'm really surprised theres not more comments like :-

"A ranged attacker, with DEFENCE, and can I get knockback on my attacks?"
"OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG..." (continues for 18 pages)

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Criminus wrote:
Criminus wrote:

I'm really surprised theres not more comments like :-
"A ranged attacker, with DEFENCE, and can I get knockback on my attacks?"
"OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG..." (continues for 18 pages)

My only concern is: trying to keep the Balance for Mitigation.. versus Damage output in a Power-set.
I'm just worried if Mitigation is Higher.. then Damage output should be Lower. :P

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Criminus wrote:
I'm really surprised theres not more comments like :-
"A ranged attacker, with DEFENCE, and can I get knockback on my attacks?"
"OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG..." (continues for 18 pages)

My only concern is: trying to keep the Balance for Mitigation.. versus Damage output in a Power-set.
I'm just worried if Mitigation is Higher.. then Damage output should be Lower. :P

Of course, you're right.
See, this was the benefit of KB in a ranged set, it was a built in defence. There were other options of course, other elemental sets had freezing, or stunning, or even bonus damage (fire), but energy attacks had the KB. Thus the primary was supposed to be balanced from the get go.
This is why energy melee was great as secondary, for that 100% KB punch. It was a life saver.
Now instead of that, we could combine the primary with a proper defence secondary. This is where it gets interesting. Having status effects in the primary and damage reduction in the secondary.
My method for character creation is going to be figuring out how to get all the offensive powers lined up time wise, ie, no wasted seconds of cooldown, so I have maximum power always available. After that, its a simple case of 'tab next mob, spam attack sequence', (modifying for situation of course).

And some will say this sounds boring. Me, I'm going to go pwning random missions, if possible.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Criminus wrote:
I'm really surprised theres not more comments like :-
"A ranged attacker, with DEFENCE, and can I get knockback on my attacks?"
"OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG..." (continues for 18 pages)

My only concern is: trying to keep the Balance for Mitigation.. versus Damage output in a Power-set.
I'm just worried if Mitigation is Higher.. then Damage output should be Lower. :P

Well, the thing you have to keep in mind is Classification. Gunner's classification is Ranger. So the primary power set of Ranger is Ranged. Protection (previously defense) is secondary power set under the "Gunner" specialization. Additionally, Rangers will have less hit points, so even if the protection is on par with scrappers (which I doubt), they still won't be as proficient in tanking. Plus I'm sure the protection sets will be slightly different. So I find it hard to believe Protection, a secondary, will ever out-shine their primary: Ranged. Gunners will be highly proficient in damage along with their cousins, Hunters and Partisans. I wouldn't worry about it being imbalanced as far as damage/protection ratio goes.

Getting knockbacks w/ defense secondary would be an advantages in spots, so that's pretty cool. I don't see anything wrong with it. That's just the kind of character/game play one would embrace.

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Criminus wrote:
Criminus wrote:

I'm really surprised theres not more comments like :-
"A ranged attacker, with DEFENCE, and can I get knockback on my attacks?"
"OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG..." (continues for 18 pages)

I wish I could help you with that, but I'm furiously trying to suppress my inner child.

But seriously though, this set is surprisingly similar to a soldier. The ranged combat is like your guns, and the defense is like your Kevlar armor. On level 50 it's almost like on Call of Duty: Ghosts when you get a minigun and juggernaut armor for kicking sufficient amounts of ass! It also helps me to realize just about every military-type hero/villain I ever dreamed up! :D

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combustion man from avatar

combustion man from avatar the last airbender anyone?

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I want me a Mini-gun toting

I want me a Mini-gun toting futuristic armour wearing Gunner.
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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

... that does NOT root you in place ...

Hmm... so... Do you think Blasters should have the Most Non Root-In-Place powers... compared to other AT's?

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My main will be the ranger

My main will be the ranger starting class just to wait til gunner goes live since we will be able to respec secondaries. Gunner just sounds like its going to be a fun class to play, esp. Since I solo a lot ill finally get an easier roll at soloing a ranged toon.

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AAlbusUUmbra wrote:
AAlbusUUmbra wrote:

I wish I could help you with that, but I'm furiously trying to suppress my inner child.
But seriously though, this set is surprisingly similar to a soldier. The ranged combat is like your guns, and the defense is like your Kevlar armor.

Your inner child? My inner child typed 18 pages of OMGOMGOMG...
Honestly, if I wasnt paying attention, it's be all over the place.

All I want is a proper super-character. For this, I need :-
A) All-round-invulnerabily with regeneration. The old 'Will Power' set handled this nicely.
B) Some kind of energy blast power, either ranged, or a mix of ranged and melee. Knock back is a big bonus.

And now I hear, in the new CoT, there is a tank class and a ranged class that gives me EXACTLY what I'd love to play.

1) Active inner child.
2) Engage inner child.
3) Giggle like a maniac.

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Novacat wrote:
Novacat wrote:

One thing to remember though is that melees had survivability magnitudes* greater than Blasters for a long long time -far above and beyond the difference in base damage by mobs. Only Defiance V2 finally allowed blasters to survive a bad afternoon versus solo green minion mezzers if their alpha-strike missed. It also took close real-life friends teaming with you for a group to be willing to wait for tripmines; Scrappers generally just lept right in, and didn't exactly need the help!
I am wondering as to how things will work with range: "sniping" was a 120~150ft affair (somehow) for Blasters, although the average SMG or shotgun cone from mobs could easily reach this, and actual sniper class mobs had "quarter of the map away" ranges. Will "sniping them out of range" be acceptable in CoT (it was not in CoH), when it is as slow and roughly as safe as mezzing an entire group and plinking them to death while they stand helpless for similar speed and safety**?
Highly curious, a little worried but also looking forward to this game.
*quite literally when it comes to controls
**or far greater speed and safety once controllers got their pets at higher levels

Powers are to be the same between NPC and PC. So, if a snipe can hit from 800m, it does so for both PC and NPC. (note, we have not decided on snipe's range yet).

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INFINITE ZOOM Blaster

INFINITE ZOOM Blaster Secondary power. Grants unlimited range to Snipes.
Click target
Fly to other side of the map (get coffee while flying)
Click Snipe.
Wait 10 seconds for Snipe to hit target.
DAMN I missed!!!

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

INFINITE ZOOM Blaster Secondary power. Grants unlimited range to Snipes.
Click target
Fly to other side of the map (get coffee while flying)
Click Snipe.
Wait 10 seconds for Snipe to hit target.
DAMN I missed!!!

Would be pretty useful up until the enemy left your target range... or can you target mobs from across the map?

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You can target enemies at ANY

You can target enemies at ANY range :)
Obviously Im being facetious/joking

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

You can target enemies at ANY range :)
Obviously Im being facetious/joking

Not really! CoH gave you this one Blaster auxhillary power that could boost your range. Couple that with a crapton of range enhancements on your sniper, and you could shoot clear of one third of the city zone!

Unfortunately, it would never quite be as staggering as it would be if we could actually shoot across the map...

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Like in the movie Wanted with

Like in the movie Wanted with the huge-ass barrelled sniper rifle that fired bullets that broke apart mid-flight

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

Like in the movie Wanted with the huge-ass barrelled sniper rifle that fired bullets that broke apart mid-flight

Clivilization?

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Izzy that looks more like an

Izzy that looks more like an Epic/Ultimate type power with like a 10 min cooldown timer :)

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Nah, Epic/Ultimate would be

Nah, Epic/Ultimate would be the Giant Death Robot ^_^

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I just want to fly and rain

I just want to fly and rain down as much damage as possible. Just not with fire. I just don't care for fire.

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What about water?

What about water?

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Water is ok. I liked light

Water is ok. I liked light and sonic best.

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For Blasters hands down it

For Blasters hands down it was AR. Energy was fun, both Primary and Secondary. Water was sort of okay. Never really liked the rest.
Secondaries were story driven. ALWAYS took Leadership and Athletics. I hope I can get close in CoT

Deelon
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First off, sorry to bring

First off, sorry to bring this thread back after 3 years! I think the Gunner might struggle early on with endurance issues due to the fact that a lot of the protection toggles take a flat portion of your endurance away while active. This might be a good trade off in some situations but, in my opinion, a Gunner probably would not last as long as the other two options in any extended fight (at least DPS-wise) and they wouldn't be providing the team with any sort of support, be it heals or soft controls.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for the class too, but doesn't offer much team benefit since the blaster shouldn't be grabbing aggro before the tank in the first place. It probably won't do as well in team settings as the other two options might. That being said, it'll be a great solo character and will probably be totally broken for PvP :)

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Deelon wrote:
Deelon wrote:

First off, sorry to bring this thread back after 3 years! I think the Gunner might struggle early on with endurance issues due to the fact that a lot of the protection toggles take a flat portion of your endurance away while active. This might be a good trade off in some situations but, in my opinion, a Gunner probably would not last as long as the other two options in any extended fight (at least DPS-wise) and they wouldn't be providing the team with any sort of support, be it heals or soft controls.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for the class too, but doesn't offer much team benefit since the blaster shouldn't be grabbing aggro before the tank in the first place. It probably won't do as well in team settings as the other two options might. That being said, it'll be a great solo character and will probably be totally broken for PvP :)

The entire concept of "Endurance" is being reworked for CoT. I'm not saying your concerns are not valid, but I am saying the whole way powers are going to be, well, powered is fundamentally different. We've got a long way to go (and a lot of testing) before we need to specifically worry about any archetypes being under or over powered.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Not all Protection powers are

Not all Protection powers are Switched (that is having a flat Power Cost). Many are traditional toggles.


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The entire concept of "Endurance" is being reworked for CoT. I'm not saying your concerns are not valid, but I am saying the whole way powers are going to be, well, powered is fundamentally different. We've got a long way to go (and a lot of testing) before we need to specifically worry about any archetypes being under or over powered.

Yeah I'm with you on the unknowns and things not being finalized, I'm just imagining the headache that a ranged /Super Agility gunner would be to deal with lol. But have they mentioned anything about your characters Power resource behaving that much differently from CoH's Endurance? Many of the protection powers read:

"Once switched on, this ability will always remain active and automatically reactivate when you recover from defeat, but will reduce your Power resource for ability upkeep by a significant amount making the cost a deciding factor in whether to keep it active or not."

That would lead me to believe that the Gunner's resource pool would be noticeably limited compared to the Hunter or Partisan, which means less pew pew and more just standing around looking tough early game until you get your build fleshed out to mitigate that cut. I assume they want to keep the Ranger's HP and protection percentage values fairly low compared to the melee classes, so in my mind I'm not sure whether that resource investment is really that worth it only saves you from 2-3 extra hits and you don't intend on competing for the tank's role. I'd like to see how a snipe-focused gunner with /Solid Form will play out and whether or not they'd be better off with manipulation as a secondary since they shouldn't be getting that much aggro from a distance.

I'll throw it out there that my thoughts on this are heavily dependent on how aggro is handled in the game. I could be totally wrong on all of this, but it's interesting see how everyone feels the class will turn out since it's such a weird combo. The only way I imagine myself using it is for surviving while trying to activate as many PBAoE nukes as I can before I'm tapped out, otherwise it seems kind of redundant in a typical ranged setting. What are your thoughts about how it should be played and what role the Gunner might fill in a team setting?

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Gunner and Commanders

Gunner and Commanders/Masterminds are to characters I will have to wait for, Both are on my decades long wishlist.

Gunners are great concepts and solo friendly. The best I can do at launch is grab a ranger and fill up as many slots with Defensive Tertiary powers as possible.
Black Falcon and Talos are both Gladiators.
Mr Easy will be my mastermind villain summoning 1940's gangsters.
But the Gunner will steal my attention as soon as it comes out.

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If the protection is a

If the protection is a secondary shouldn't it be as strong as any other class's protection secondary?

Be like a ranged scrapper.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If the protection is a secondary shouldn't it be as strong as any other class's protection secondary?

Be like a ranged scrapper.

Agreed! That's how I see it.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If the protection is a secondary shouldn't it be as strong as any other class's protection secondary?

Be like a ranged scrapper.

Agreed! That's how I see it.

It will probably have the same percentages as an enforcer but I'm under the impression that the Gunner will still have low HP, so you wouldn't be able to handle things that an enforcer or especially tank would be able to.

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Deelon wrote:
Deelon wrote:

Yeah I'm with you on the unknowns and things not being finalized, I'm just imagining the headache that a ranged /Super Agility gunner would be to deal with lol. But have they mentioned anything about your characters Power resource behaving that much differently from CoH's Endurance? Many of the protection powers read:

"Once switched on, this ability will always remain active and automatically reactivate when you recover from defeat, but will reduce your Power resource for ability upkeep by a significant amount making the cost a deciding factor in whether to keep it active or not."

That would lead me to believe that the Gunner's resource pool would be noticeably limited compared to the Hunter or Partisan, which means less pew pew and more just standing around looking tough early game until you get your build fleshed out to mitigate that cut. I assume they want to keep the Ranger's HP and protection percentage values fairly low compared to the melee classes, so in my mind I'm not sure whether that resource investment is really that worth it only saves you from 2-3 extra hits and you don't intend on competing for the tank's role. I'd like to see how a snipe-focused gunner with /Solid Form will play out and whether or not they'd be better off with manipulation as a secondary since they shouldn't be getting that much aggro from a distance.

I'll throw it out there that my thoughts on this are heavily dependent on how aggro is handled in the game. I could be totally wrong on all of this, but it's interesting see how everyone feels the class will turn out since it's such a weird combo. The only way I imagine myself using it is for surviving while trying to activate as many PBAoE nukes as I can before I'm tapped out, otherwise it seems kind of redundant in a typical ranged setting. What are your thoughts about how it should be played and what role the Gunner might fill in a team setting?

Protections come in a number of shapes and colors.

Not only will we have defense, resistance and subtraction; but it can also be oriented towards damage types like exotic, physical and energy. Furthermore CoT will also have something CoX did not. CoT will have protections geared towards melee, ranged and area effect attacks. So taking a look at the two examples from the super agility power set we see that it is primarily geared towards melee attacks.

One of the benefits a gunner has which most enforcers or stalwarts won't is the ability to attack at range and thereby select the defenses to use based upon the threat that manages to close on us. So while enforcers and stalwarts would need to have their full suite of protections running almost all the time, I think a gunner can afford to be more miserly in selecting which protections to raise and when. This should help a lot with resource management.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Deelon wrote:

Yeah I'm with you on the unknowns and things not being finalized, I'm just imagining the headache that a ranged /Super Agility gunner would be to deal with lol. But have they mentioned anything about your characters Power resource behaving that much differently from CoH's Endurance? Many of the protection powers read:

"Once switched on, this ability will always remain active and automatically reactivate when you recover from defeat, but will reduce your Power resource for ability upkeep by a significant amount making the cost a deciding factor in whether to keep it active or not."

That would lead me to believe that the Gunner's resource pool would be noticeably limited compared to the Hunter or Partisan, which means less pew pew and more just standing around looking tough early game until you get your build fleshed out to mitigate that cut. I assume they want to keep the Ranger's HP and protection percentage values fairly low compared to the melee classes, so in my mind I'm not sure whether that resource investment is really that worth it only saves you from 2-3 extra hits and you don't intend on competing for the tank's role. I'd like to see how a snipe-focused gunner with /Solid Form will play out and whether or not they'd be better off with manipulation as a secondary since they shouldn't be getting that much aggro from a distance.

I'll throw it out there that my thoughts on this are heavily dependent on how aggro is handled in the game. I could be totally wrong on all of this, but it's interesting see how everyone feels the class will turn out since it's such a weird combo. The only way I imagine myself using it is for surviving while trying to activate as many PBAoE nukes as I can before I'm tapped out, otherwise it seems kind of redundant in a typical ranged setting. What are your thoughts about how it should be played and what role the Gunner might fill in a team setting?

Protections come in a number of shapes and colors.

Not only will we have defense, resistance and subtraction; but it can also be oriented towards damage types like exotic, physical and energy. Furthermore CoT will also have something CoX did not. CoT will have protections geared towards melee, ranged and area effect attacks. So taking a look at the two examples from the [url= https://cityoftitans.com/content/protection-sets]super agility[/url] power set we see that it is primarily geared towards melee attacks.

One of the benefits a gunner has which most enforcers or stalwarts won't is the ability to attack at range and thereby select the defenses to use based upon the threat that manages to close on us. So while enforcers and stalwarts would need to have their full suite of protections running almost all the time, I think a gunner can afford to be more miserly in selecting which protections to raise and when. This should help a lot with resource management.

I think this is spot-on!

Frankly, as I remember most of my blasters operated precisely in this way. I might have taken one or two big hits from a mob but for the most part none could make a heavy hit reach me. Distance and tactics are a large part of defense when playing as a ranged character.

I really look forward to playing all three varieties of ranger they eventually make available but yeah the gunner is likely my sweet-spot too!

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

One of the benefits a gunner has which most enforcers or stalwarts won't is the ability to attack at range and thereby select the defenses to use based upon the threat that manages to close on us. So while enforcers and stalwarts would need to have their full suite of protections running almost all the time, I think a gunner can afford to be more miserly in selecting which protections to raise and when. This should help a lot with resource management.

Very good point! I didn’t consider cherry picking powers that way. Super Agility with ranged/aoe evasion seems like the most viable option for that because the Ranger’s lower HP won’t matter as much if you aren’t getting hit. It might be harder to make use of a resistance set but maybe there’s creative ways to make it work.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Gunner and Commanders/Masterminds are to characters I will have to wait for, Both are on my decades long wishlist.

Gunners are great concepts and solo friendly. The best I can do at launch is grab a ranger and fill up as many slots with Defensive Tertiary powers as possible.
Black Falcon and Talos are both Gladiators.
Mr Easy will be my mastermind villain summoning 1940's gangsters.
But the Gunner will steal my attention as soon as it comes out.

So much the same. My concept for my main has been the Gunner archetype for years and I’ve never been able to truly represent it. Now I’ll be able to have an invulnerable who shoots beams from his fingertips and has limited super strength (through tertiary) and I’m GIDDY at the prospect. Kind of makes me think of a walking bunker or artillery or something.

Like you I anticipate seeing myself totally swept away by Gunner the day it goes live.

Name: Safehouse
Ranger: Gunner
Primary: Force Blast
Secondary: Super Agility
Tertiary: Kinetic Melee
Travel Power: Parkour
Status: Traveling. Following rumors of a huge city in Massachusetts that is teeming with supers.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If the protection is a secondary shouldn't it be as strong as any other class's protection secondary?

Be like a ranged scrapper.

Agreed! That's how I see it.

I remember something about buffs from powers getting a bonus from both the caster and receiver that depends on when (primary, secondary, or tertiery) they took a protection/buff set and if the set is a "casting" or "receiving" one. So it might be that there is only one single base value and these caster/receiver bonuses are what sets them apart for primary, secondary, and tertiary "base values".

If MWM really has such a system then for practical reasons I'd imagine that they have the "tertiary level" as the minimum and thus only apply a bonus for primary and secondary "levels".