Evil will always triumph - because good is dumb.

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Greyhawk wrote:

The problem with any kind of good/evil dichotomy is no one ever bothers to define their terms. The advocates of each side simply assume everyone agrees on the definitions.
Since no one ever bothers to define their terms, the terms remain meaningless, the dichotomy unresolved, and much blood is shed over nothing.

Quite right.

Good.
Bad.
I'm the PC playing the game.

Greyhawk wrote:

The problem with any kind of good/evil dichotomy is no one ever bothers to define their terms. The advocates of each side simply assume everyone agrees on the definitions.
Since no one ever bothers to define their terms, the terms remain meaningless, the dichotomy unresolved, and much blood is shed over nothing.

I actually see this as hiding, for while the fine print isn't really displayed...there is Good and there is Evil...and everyone knows the difference. if there wasn't a baseline Good and Evil....this very thought process wouldn't even exist.

I'm pushing for a looser definition and think the game lore w've been given so far supports it:

Law - The Government, The Cops, etc.. we know that some in the TCPD are corrupt (enough to kill) and government always has its own failings, especially to people not represented in the "majority". They are seen as "GOOD" but there is the possibility someone aligned with the law is using it maliciously. More-so they are required to uphold the law, even if the law ... sucks.

Soverign - People who make their own rules. These are "vigilantes" like the X-Men who are not on good terms with the government but are not in themselves unlawful. Like the Inhumans, Morlocks etc.. they do things to further their own agenda. Specifically Single hero vigilantes like Punisher and even Spider-Man can find them selves fighting both the law and the "bad" guy"

Chaos - Freedom fighters and terrorists and people who do not respect the rule of law either from soverign entities OR the government. These people are working against the "order". Many people consider them "evil" but they often have their reasons. Peoplelike the Brotherhood of Mutants as well as Crime Syndicates and even

It "sounds" alot like hero, vigilante, villain but we are modern enough to know that the motives of an alignment don't always fit. There could be times when the Government really are the bad guys. There could be times where someone's soverignty comes at the expense to a crime syndicates profits or even where the Govt tries to impose their rules. There are freedom fighters who face off with the government like Mystique and who do not like the likes of the X-Men and yet if you ask her she's not a "bad guy"

I really hope the alignment in CoT is more nuanced showing the objectives for each alignment to be as valid as their counterpart. It makes for a more robust and compelling villain storyline to me than "I'm evil and do bad things.. because.. plot device that's why!"

The thing is, everyone who plays the game will be a Player. They will be playing a PC.

The only reason(s) to divide the PCs up into Factions (Red vs White vs Blue) are for storytelling reasons. Red stories should not be mirror image flips of Blue stories with the serial numbers filed off. These Faction differences should not prevent PCs from playing together, forming alliances and friendships and all of the other things that go into making a community.

I'm talking about being able to trust your Frenemies and enjoy their company, even if they do play for "the other team" in the game. When PCs join together to do things in the game, it shouldn't be a Red vs Blue thing exclusively.

JayBezz wrote:

I'm pushing for a looser definition and think the game lore w've been given so far supports it:
Law - The Government, The Cops, etc.. we know that some in the TCPD are corrupt (enough to kill) and government always has its own failings, especially to people not represented in the "majority". They are seen as "GOOD" but there is the possibility someone aligned with the law is using it maliciously. More-so they are required to uphold the law, even if the law ... sucks.
Soverign - People who make their own rules. These are "vigilantes" like the X-Men who are not on good terms with the government but are not in themselves unlawful. Like the Inhumans, Morlocks etc.. they do things to further their own agenda. Specifically Single hero vigilantes like Punisher and even Spider-Man can find them selves fighting both the law and the "bad" guy"
Chaos - Freedom fighters and terrorists and people who do not respect the rule of law either from soverign entities OR the government. These people are working against the "order". Many people consider them "evil" but they often have their reasons. Peoplelike the Brotherhood of Mutants as well as Crime Syndicates and even
It "sounds" alot like hero, vigilante, villain but we are modern enough to know that the motives of an alignment don't always fit. There could be times when the Government really are the bad guys. There could be times where someone's soverignty comes at the expense to a crime syndicates profits or even where the Govt tries to impose their rules. There are freedom fighters who face off with the government like Mystique and who do not like the likes of the X-Men and yet if you ask her she's not a "bad guy"
I really hope the alignment in CoT is more nuanced showing the objectives for each alignment to be as valid as their counterpart. It makes for a more robust and compelling villain storyline to me than "I'm evil and do bad things.. because.. plot device that's why!"

I like Sovereign. Sovereign works. I would happily label my character Sovereign.

Much more appropriate for how I approach the dichotomy than either "hero" or "villain", and definitely more accurate than "vigilante".

Brand X wrote:

Going to have to disagree. I never saw a problem with a separation of sides in games with fractions, and while you hear some complaints right now, I remember CoH and losing a big chunk of the player base when pvp was messed with to much, so obviously pvp is an important part of a games community.
The problem isn't fractions. The problem is there's a few players who want to play red side who have friends who wants to play blue side and in a fraction system, they'd have to split up or play both, with the only hard part of both sides is two guilds.
Team ups make sense (problem with CoH was it became all they did) not guilds of heroes and villains grouped together. Heroes would not stay grouped with someone in full time villain status.

A MMORPG is not a comic book, even as a comic book is not a movie.

The medium itself imposes a different set of limits and strengths. It is foolish to expect a MMORPG to perfectly duplicate a comic book world, and vice versa.

Every medium has its own strengths and weaknesses. It is important for anyone using that medium to tell a story to learn what those strengths and weaknesses are and how best to exploit them.

A MMORPG has real, thinking, feeling, decision-making people all playing together. A comic book has fixed characters performing fixed roles to tell a fixed narrative. Limiting a MMORPG to the conventions of comics denies players the freedom to be real people.

Strict factions in forced conflict with one another place severe limits on the player's ability to play the game. The AC/WoW era has come and gone. It is time to maximize the potential of the medium.

Greyhawk wrote:

Well said, Redlynne! Short and sweet. Concise, even.

There must be something wrong with me. I seem to be saying things that people appreciate without requiring walls of text to do so.

Perhaps I should check my medical insurance ...