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Game/Zone Music

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Noctoral
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Game/Zone Music

The significance of having good music in the game came to me today, and I wanted to offer a few thoughts and examples of what I think would greatly increase the depth and feel of the gaming experience.

I haven't taken the time to search all of the forums, so if this sort of post has already been made please redirect me!

I enjoyed some of the music in CoH (never played the other super MMO's), but really none of it ever felt very heroic. At most maybe it felt dangerous. I like the Atlas Park theme, it feels exciting and hopeful, although still seems sort of small.
Much of the music in the game (as I recall) seemed only to be some kind of tech-rock. Why didn't it change themes to earthy-tribal when I visited the DE? Largely it seemed mono-thematic, and it never felt very heroic to me. I want music to match my character; I want to feel like my character has his own theme! (even if I secretly know everyone else has the same theme). I want to feel like my character is larger than life, and that the neighbourhood, city, and country have me as their last hope (or in the villains case, the city and country are in peril at my powerful hand). I think a great way to achieve this feeling is to have appropriate music.

Here follows some examples of music that makes me feel rather heroic, or by contrast: drastically hopeless.

O Fortuna - Carmina Burana by Carl Orff

2001: a Space Odyssey by Richard Strauss

Ride of the Valkyries by Richard Wagner

Lacrimosa - Requiem by Mozart

Dies Irae - Requiem by Mozart

Mars, the Bringer of War by Gustav Holst (I also must include this one. Music starts at 1:35, though the whole thing is hilarious if you know The Ventrue Bros)

Rufford Park Poachers by Percy Grainger

Chaconne, First Suite in Eb by Holst

The following examples are from movies or TV, and the last two examples may be best suited in a broad fashion to an entire game of superheroes.

Zoldyck Family theme from HunterxHunter by Yoshihisa Hirano

Raider's March by John Williams

Man of Steel Main Theme by Hans Zimmer

Dark Knight Trilogy by Zimmer

If this sort of stuff is not inspiring, does not make you want to rise up and be heroic (or villainous, of course), then I am not sure what will!

I would love to hear stuff akin to these wonderful pieces of music in CoT. It would enhance the gaming experience a great deal.

Izzy
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Did you listen to the City of

Did you listen to the City of Titans concept music yet?
https://soundcloud.com/hellwreckage/sets/city-of-titans-concept-music

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I've been using a clip of the

I've been using a clip of the original Atlas Park theme music (the first one, before they changed it) since like 2009 as a ring tone on my phone. CoX had an FTP site where you could access all that stuff. I also use the "you just got a tell" beep sound as my "text message received" alert on my phone. I should have downloaded like everything on that FTP site when I had the chance, but didn't. :(

As for enviro-music. I only have one request. If there's going to be a disco club in this game like DJ Zero had in CoX, PLEASE make it play different songs not the same clip OVER and OVER and OVER. Frankly it would be nice if there were a set of different themes you could choose from, or maybe let people pay Inf to request music from a menu or just a randomized rotation of stuff or something.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

If there's going to be a disco club in this game like DJ Zero had in CoX, PLEASE make it play different songs not the same clip OVER and OVER and OVER. Frankly it would be nice if there were a set of different themes you could choose from, or maybe let people pay Inf to request music from a menu or just a randomized rotation of stuff or something.

+1 ;)

Noctoral
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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Did you listen to the City of Titans concept music yet?https://soundcloud.com/hellwreckage/sets/city-of-titans-concept-music

I hadn't listened to most of them. Thanks for posting the link.

After having listened to them, however, I am still rather at a loss of the grandiose, heroic feeling that I want for this game.
Of the 4 pieces, only Main Menu Concept Idea 1 and Power Armor had any sort of movement to them. But even they are very stale and a combination of boring and predictable chords which emulates a real melody, but is not one.

Most of these tunes (and this goes for CoH too) are just fast paced beats with synth drums. Now, that alone is not a problem, but the problem comes when that is all the music is in the game. For every zone. For every mission. For every AV.

There needs to be a much more vast array of music in the game in general.

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Yeah, if you want a truly

Yeah, if you want a truly great game, there is no aspect that can be just "meh". And music, as good movie directors know, sets the entire feel.

Great music bumps everything else in the game up a notch, and bad music can make a good game feel "meh".

The Secret World has amazing music and sound design. Champions isn't that good and DCUO is just barely ok. It really makes a difference.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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That's probably why listening

That's probably why listening to the music tracks for Tabula Rasa can still get me energized, even today.


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I want to have Angus Young as

I want to have Angus Young as a non-combat pet following me through missions banging his head and playing acdc tunes while I fight.

We can do this right?

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Rootz wrote:
Rootz wrote:

I want to have Angus Young as a non-combat pet following me through missions banging his head and playing acdc tunes while I fight.
We can do this right?

That or Sir Robin's Minstrels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

As for CoT music those so far were test pieces I asked for the Music CD for one of my Kickstarter perks. For the City of Heroes music we got them on the Paragon Wiki. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Music There is also the City of Heroes Soundtrack http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/City+Of+Heroes+Soundtrack/7754006

Yeah sometimes I just close my eyes and listen.

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We need The Crystal Method.

We need The Crystal Method. Plus some french horns here and there playing Aaron Copland style symphonic stuff for grandeur.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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This topic is making me think

This topic is making me think that if we have a sonic sort of power setup, there's got to be animations for using a guitar to do the sound attacks. Using the power of ROCK to defeat your enemies!

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

This topic is making me think that if we have a sonic sort of power setup, there's got to be animations for using a guitar to do the sound attacks. Using the power of ROCK to defeat your enemies!

Man there'll be a lot of Jack Black's--and Jack White's--running around.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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What this thread needs.......

What this thread needs..........is more cowbell!

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

That's probably why listening to the music tracks for Tabula Rasa can still get me energized, even today.

It was an amazing soundtrack.

Wildstar has another amazing soundtrack, and even now... several months down the line, I still have the volume up for the music alone. And there are so many styles of music as well, it just amazes me as to what Jeff Kurtenacker pulls out for another zone[1]. The music changes not only due to zone/area, but also has the combat music.

The other thing that he has done is several versions of the same song that get used in various ways. There is a version of the main theme for when you travel in the taxi.

And then there is the floor piano that you can use on your housing plot....

[1] Saying that, I am starting to get a bit tired of the general theme that is used for the Strain...

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

This topic is making me think that if we have a sonic sort of power setup, there's got to be animations for using a guitar to do the sound attacks. Using the power of ROCK to defeat your enemies!

Hank Taliaferro will be all over that. As soon as he can rig up a truly portable electric guitar. Or buy one, I'd think it would be feasible with real-world tech...

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Noctoral, you have certainly

Noctoral, you have certainly chosen some impressive music. True works of art, every one of them.

But to be honest, I can not help but feel that they are a bit too heavy, overwhelming and complex for a games soundtrack. Game music, in my opinion, has to be of a simpler nature and needs a certain repetitiveness. It has to be just repetitive enough to fade from hearing it consciously, but not too much, so that it would not end up boring.

The songs we have so far are actually pretty decent game music. But it could be an improvement if the composers took some inspirations from your suggestions and add a little more epic orchestral feeling to their work.

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

The songs we have so far are actually pretty decent game music. But it could be an improvement if the composers took some inspirations from your suggestions and add a little more epic orchestral feeling to their work.

Well, the LogIn Screen could. I'm not sure i want to listen to Epic music while just sitting idle, crafting, etc. It should Match the situation. :}

Noctoral
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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

I can not help but feel that they are a bit too heavy, overwhelming and complex for a games soundtrack. Game music, in my opinion, has to be of a simpler nature and needs a certain repetitiveness. It has to be just repetitive enough to fade from hearing it consciously, but not too much, so that it would not end up boring.
The songs we have so far are actually pretty decent game music. But it could be an improvement if the composers took some inspirations from your suggestions and add a little more epic orchestral feeling to their work.

You are very correct in your assessment. I am a great promoter of good and quality music, so that if the game were to play Mozart, Holst and Strauss, etc. then I would be fairly delighted. However, I do realise that other people don't necessarily share the same enjoyment of this stuff as I do. Yet that doesn't diminish the need for good, heroic, grandiose, and still appropriate music.

The purpose of me posting those pieces was simply for an idea; for inspiration. I began with older pieces and ended up with more modern ones, which in turn were actually inspired by the older pieces. I'd most want whoever is composing music for the game to look to the old stuff for inspiration, and maybe look to the new stuff for practical usage. The modern pieces come from movies and movie franchises and those really would do VERY well I think in CoT. The first ones maybe not so much....unless they somehow could be threaded seamlessly into my hero fighting and conquering his arch-nemesis. But that is a game-making acrobatic that I can't give counsel on.

Izzy wrote:

Well, the LogIn Screen could. I'm not sure i want to listen to Epic music while just sitting idle, crafting, etc. It should Match the situation. :}

Another great point. Thank you, Izzy, for helping me to remember this simple reality.
It should be said that I want to really make sure that all sorts of music are accounted for. As for CoH, I thought that it lacked greatly a heroic element to its music.
But I would be delighted in a game that sampled orchestral, choral, jazz, classic rock, techno, dubstep, tribal, latin, and whatever else to give contrast and expansiveness to the feeling of the entire game. Although now I'm afraid people will rightly tell me that we don't want to spread it all too thin. Oh dear!

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Diversity is always a good

Diversity is always a good thing. Especially when it comes to music, you will not hear me complaining about that. Maybe that is a bit much to ask for an at launch feature, with very limited time and resources available, but if the aim is to hire professional comic writers for special story arcs some time in the future of the game, why not also hire composers and musicians to expand and improve the atmosphere?

And for the far future...: Some games feature that you can choose between different radio stations to listen to or even pick songs from your own mp3- collection. In our case this could mean choosing a music theme for your character.

And in the meantime there will always be the option of muting the game music and listen to your own collection.

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Noctoral wrote:
Noctoral wrote:

As for CoH, I thought that it lacked greatly a heroic element to its music.

What
Are
You
Smoking?

o.O


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Noctoral wrote:
As for CoH, I thought that it lacked greatly a heroic element to its music.
WhatAreYouSmoking?
o.O

Uh, I gotta +1 Red here.

Maybe they didn't hit with every track, but all the primary tracks and over all most of the tracks were just absolutely inspired.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
Noctoral wrote:
As for CoH, I thought that it lacked greatly a heroic element to its music.

WhatAreYouSmoking?
o.O

Uh, I gotta +1 Red here.
Maybe they didn't hit with every track, but all the primary tracks and over all most of the tracks were just absolutely inspired.

City of Heroes had similar music to The SHADOW (movie starring Alec Baldwin). which i like. :D

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I think this is more about

I think this is more about the music in the actual game, not the menu music.

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

This topic is making me think that if we have a sonic sort of power setup, there's got to be animations for using a guitar to do the sound attacks. Using the power of ROCK to defeat your enemies!

Been looking at this perhaps ? http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Elite_Tauren_Chieftain and the WoW stuff that spawned it

Tech Team and Forum Moderator

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Yeah we could use a Game Band

Yeah we could use a Game Band.

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Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

Halae wrote:
This topic is making me think that if we have a sonic sort of power setup, there's got to be animations for using a guitar to do the sound attacks. Using the power of ROCK to defeat your enemies!

Been looking at this perhaps ? http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Elite_Tauren_Chieftain and the WoW stuff that spawned it

As a matter of fact, I'm not a hearthstone player, though my boyfriend is. Maybe I should check it out.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

Minotaur wrote:
Halae wrote:
This topic is making me think that if we have a sonic sort of power setup, there's got to be animations for using a guitar to do the sound attacks. Using the power of ROCK to defeat your enemies!

Been looking at this perhaps ? http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Elite_Tauren_Chieftain and the WoW stuff that spawned it

As a matter of fact, I'm not a hearthstone player, though my boyfriend is. Maybe I should check it out.

Elite Tauren Chief is the name of the "Blizzard" Band that have changed its name over the years.

This is the better link to them. They don't just do songs related to World of Warcraft, but they have also done Terran Up The Night, Raise Some Hell and their all time best selling hit and soon to be "10 time dirt"[1] record I am murloc

[1] Dirt is just like Platinum selling, just about 1million less sales ;)

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And speaking of zone music..

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Would be awesome if there was

Would be awesome if there was in game features to upload your own music along side the in game music as well as a macro that will switch between the two so you can make your own atmospheric character/combat experience. Could also give the composer some more freedom in the types of music to play if you had multiple in game optional tracks to choose from rather than having to be married to a certain music choice.

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Leo_G wrote:
Leo_G wrote:

Would be awesome if there was in game features to upload your own music along side the in game music as well as a macro that will switch between the two so you can make your own atmospheric character/combat experience. Could also give the composer some more freedom in the types of music to play if you had multiple in game optional tracks to choose from rather than having to be married to a certain music choice.

Part of this is doable by just having the composer write up a boat of music, and then coding it so that it played a random track from a selection of suitable ones.

Of course, this puts the onus onto the composer/developers to put together this list.

On the other side the uploading of tracks is a legally grey area. This is not a problem if you own the copyright to the track, but if you DON'T, then it can be a problem.

It is worth noting that depending on the company that is offering the service, the RIAA/PRS/(Insert country specific organisation here), it could cause MWM a load of problems.

A potential workaround is by making it possible for you to be able to set a *playlist* that is on your computer to be suitable for the "ingame" music.

And as long as MWM tell us the format that the list is meant to be in (ie XML or a .m3u with a specific track order/filename) then it would be up to US to decide it.

Downside is that this then becomes machine specific. Bonus points though if you can set up the playlist location though, so you could potentially keep the playlist locations in a onedrive/drop box location....

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2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
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4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Like this? ;)

Like this? ;)

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

Part of this is doable by just having the composer write up a boat of music, and then coding it so that it played a random track from a selection of suitable ones.
Of course, this puts the onus onto the composer/developers to put together this list.

This is one of those cases where Doing It RIGHT The First Time would be a tremendously big help.

Essentially what you'd want to do from a coding perspective is have an array lookup of music tracks for each music cue, with the intent of allowing a randomized selection from that array. As a first pass of musical composition, your Game Launch objective would be to have (at least) One Selection chosen for each music cue. Net result would be that the track randomizer picks the 1 track from the array of 1 options available ... and plays it.

Ah ... but the beauty of such a system would be that it is inherently designed to be expansionary! Thus, over time, as more music (and more content) gets produced for the game, it is intrinsically EASY to "slot it in" to the available rotations by expanding the arrays of tracks that specific music cues can call up. In essence, you DESIGN the "music box" system for the game to be inherently Easy To Modify so that you can keep adding to it over time as resources and investment permits.

One of the terrible flaws of City of Heroes was the way that its codebase was (reportedly) such a Difficult To Modify monstrosity ... that eventually devolved into horrendous Spaghetti Code which became increasingly unstable over time. I mean ... good grief ... the UI system for City of Heroes was written using PERL for crying out loud(!) ... which explains why they never wanted to touch it or add new UI features (let alone functionality).

Note that this kind of Easy To Modify arrangement I'm describing here could (in theory) be extensible beyond the game, such that Players could theoretically be able to add their own track selections to the mix to be called up from local (ie. client side) resources.


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Zone music for me not a big

Zone music for me not a big deal. Way back when I was active on the project I propose having the NPC DJs having a menu feature where you can request a song to be played. Don't know if this would be put in place thought.

Having a music player built in (RP wise could be your character using an Music player on their communications system) may be the better option.

For the Elite Tauren Chieftain I like Rogues do it from behind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdEYVy6BF0w

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Also, I wouldnt mind some

Also, I wouldnt mind some Mood Music too.. something akin to The Crows background music!?
ex: http://youtu.be/hie8a-NXnQY?t=1m43s

Hmm, its more suited for an outdoor valley cut-scene, but still good. ;)

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In the 7 years I played CoX I

In the 7 years I played CoX I always enjoyed the neighbourhood music and didn't want to replace it. For me, the music was as much a part of the neighbourhood as the type of building or local mobs. Places like Atlas Plaza or Dockside in Port Oakes would have felt ...wrong... to me without the signature music.

I expect I will be much the same with CoT, especially given the samples we've had from Hellwreckage.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

Noctoral, you have certainly chosen some impressive music. True works of art, every one of them.
But to be honest, I can not help but feel that they are a bit too heavy, overwhelming and complex for a games soundtrack. Game music, in my opinion, has to be of a simpler nature and needs a certain repetitiveness. It has to be just repetitive enough to fade from hearing it consciously, but not too much, so that it would not end up boring.
The songs we have so far are actually pretty decent game music. But it could be an improvement if the composers took some inspirations from your suggestions and add a little more epic orchestral feeling to their work.

Zones often have two sets of music associated with them, the heroic theme that plays at the first reveal and during major events in the zone, and the muted and less orchestrated version of it for ordinary gameplay.

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

Having a music player built in (RP wise could be your character using an Music player on their communications system) may be the better option.

If by this you mean playing your own music to other players, expect it to be heavily nixed, if not totally crippled. This would count as broadcasting to other players, so MWM would have to come up with a way to please the rights holders.

However, by making it a case of "playing from a preselected range of tracks that are included with the game"... not so much of a problem.

Or if it is going to be client side limited, then just go for it.

Of course, just make sure that the player doesn't choke when I load it up with 50,000 songs.... Steam's beta music player died a very quick death when I did that, and Eve Online's died even faster....

Side note: Foobar2K and Itunes cope werll with that, although Foobar is naturally that good with large library, and Itunes is because I am running of a SSD

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Radiac wrote:
If there's going to be a disco club in this game like DJ Zero had in CoX, PLEASE make it play different songs not the same clip OVER and OVER and OVER. Frankly it would be nice if there were a set of different themes you could choose from, or maybe let people pay Inf to request music from a menu or just a randomized rotation of stuff or something.
+1 ;)

if there going to be a Silent park i i see Pyramid Head Theme Song in CoT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn144yWiZF4

whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

RottenLuck wrote:
Having a music player built in (RP wise could be your character using an Music player on their communications system) may be the better option.

If by this you mean playing your own music to other players, expect it to be heavily nixed, if not totally crippled. This would count as broadcasting to other players, so MWM would have to come up with a way to please the rights holders.
However, by making it a case of "playing from a preselected range of tracks that are included with the game"... not so much of a problem.
Or if it is going to be client side limited, then just go for it.
Of course, just make sure that the player doesn't choke when I load it up with 50,000 songs.... Steam's beta music player died a very quick death when I did that, and Eve Online's died even faster....
Side note: Foobar2K and Itunes cope werll with that, although Foobar is naturally that good with large library, and Itunes is because I am running of a SSD

They could always limit how many songs, then. I was thinking an easy user friendly way of editing the sound music tracks of the game with your own choices. If I just want to listen to music from a huge library, I can turn the game music off and just put on a media player in the back.

My thought was, if I just don't like a particular track or have grown tired of hearing it, an easy means to change it without needing to locate and replace a file would be nice.

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Leo_G wrote:
Leo_G wrote:

My thought was, if I just don't like a particular track or have grown tired of hearing it, an easy means to change it without needing to locate and replace a file would be nice.

Hence my point about Doing It Right The First Time and running the music cues using an array of pointers. Such a system (done right) would not only be easily extensible, but also inherently enable players to put their own tracks into the mix for a more personalized experience.


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Leo_G wrote:
Leo_G wrote:

Gangrel wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:
Having a music player built in (RP wise could be your character using an Music player on their communications system) may be the better option.

If by this you mean playing your own music to other players, expect it to be heavily nixed, if not totally crippled. This would count as broadcasting to other players, so MWM would have to come up with a way to please the rights holders.
However, by making it a case of "playing from a preselected range of tracks that are included with the game"... not so much of a problem.
Or if it is going to be client side limited, then just go for it.
Of course, just make sure that the player doesn't choke when I load it up with 50,000 songs.... Steam's beta music player died a very quick death when I did that, and Eve Online's died even faster....
Side note: Foobar2K and Itunes cope werll with that, although Foobar is naturally that good with large library, and Itunes is because I am running of a SSD

They could always limit how many songs, then. I was thinking an easy user friendly way of editing the sound music tracks of the game with your own choices. If I just want to listen to music from a huge library, I can turn the game music off and just put on a media player in the back.
My thought was, if I just don't like a particular track or have grown tired of hearing it, an easy means to change it without needing to locate and replace a file would be nice.

One way to do this is by allowing you to import .m3u/.pls (or other similar) files instead of direct folder scanning. This can help out ease a load of the problems without forcing me to copy and paste files everywhere else.

This can also tie into Redlynnes thinking as well... with the bonus being that you don't have to move any files around.

Sure, you wont have the whole "library" facility that a dedicated music player can have, but at least it allows you to use your own music inside the game.

And if you want to add in bonus tracks, load up the playlist file, edit it... and then reload it in the game. Hell, you could set it up so that the game reads/checks said file for changes every 5 minutes/reload of the game/forced reload/some other random method so that you don't have to do as much.

One thing that could make it quite good as well is by having several categories that you can load a playlist into.

"Combat music", "zone music", "ambient", "various other things" so you can load up a separate playlist accordingly.

Hell, this could even tie into the mission creator as well, where players can post up a playlist of what songs they feel is appropriate for the game to use.

Since this is just a recommendation, and you need the music on the computer for this to work.. you are not broadcasting it (so no rights). All you would need to do is put the songs you have into the correct categories et voila... a mission with a custom soundtrack (granted, one that you need to put together a little bit, but it can be done).

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2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
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4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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I'm sorry to hear that

I'm sorry to hear that several people disagree with me on some of my earlier statements. Glad, however, that many people enjoyed the music for the neighborhoods. I've heard the Atlas Park music lately and it is no difficulty for me to admit that I enjoy it: it brings back fond memories of starting Alt after Alt after Alt...

Yet I still think that much of the music in CoX was lacking. Maybe I hadn't emphasised a specific point enough. Many of the tunes in CoX as I remember were largely just a smattering of generic drumset beats. There was often some kind of FX in the track, and it had some pitched instruments, yet it is difficult to find many that had a strong reliance on melody and harmony. Before I may have been stressing too heavily the idea that the music needed to be epic (though at times of course it should be!). I just desire for this game to have good music. Give the emphasis to the melody. Make it interesting. I realise it is background music much of the time, but it still needs to stand alone.

It was mentioned by one that good music can take something to the next level. A good example of this is Star Wars. Lucas hired John Williams to orchestrate the music for this rather niche sci-fi movie. This was really a first in that it took a movie genre that was typically an unpopular, ignored thing, and made it unforgettable. Imagine Darth Vader walking forward toward the camera, not under the iconic sounds of 'Vader March' but rather under some hi-hat 16th notes with 4 chords played by a synth. Yea, I'd rather have the 'Vader March' too.

I hope this has made sense! I've been stopping writing quite frequently due to new-years related conversation...
Happy new year everyone!

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

Noctoral, you have certainly chosen some impressive music. True works of art, every one of them.
But to be honest, I can not help but feel that they are a bit too heavy, overwhelming and complex for a games soundtrack. Game music, in my opinion, has to be of a simpler nature and needs a certain repetitiveness. It has to be just repetitive enough to fade from hearing it consciously, but not too much, so that it would not end up boring.
The songs we have so far are actually pretty decent game music. But it could be an improvement if the composers took some inspirations from your suggestions and add a little more epic orchestral feeling to their work.

I agree - in-game music has to be a bit more subtle (unless you are playing Rocksmith, Guitar Hero or rhythm games of course!) - it's DESIGNED to be that way. When presented with a stimulus over time, people have tendency to "tune it out" anyways - kind of like how you don't really notice your nose in your visual field - but I bet NOW you do after I pointed it out. Now, upswings to accentuate certain moments or events are great, and appropriate.

Noctoral wrote:

It was mentioned by one that good music can take something to the next level. A good example of this is Star Wars. Lucas hired John Williams to orchestrate the music for this rather niche sci-fi movie. This was really a first in that it took a movie genre that was typically an unpopular, ignored thing, and made it unforgettable. Imagine Darth Vader walking forward toward the camera, not under the iconic sounds of 'Vader March' but rather under some hi-hat 16th notes with 4 chords played by a synth. Yea, I'd rather have the 'Vader March' too.

Yes, the Star Wars score - especially Vader's March are iconic, but they didn't have both pieces of music playing in the background of the entire movie. They were used only at certain times for those "lookit HERE" moments. Something like that at start screens or zone loading screens are cool - but not as white noise background music.

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Noctoral wrote:
Noctoral wrote:

Yet I still think that much of the music in CoX was lacking. Maybe I hadn't emphasised a specific point enough. Many of the tunes in CoX as I remember were largely just a smattering of generic drumset beats. There was often some kind of FX in the track, and it had some pitched instruments, yet it is difficult to find many that had a strong reliance on melody and harmony

From what I have heard, Cryptic basically just slapped together most of the original zone music using freely available looping software because there was no budget for music. Much latter on Paragon actually hired a composer for Going Rogue. To say the music got better was an understatement. At the very least at least there is a composer for CoT from the very beginning.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Noctoral wrote:
Yet I still think that much of the music in CoX was lacking. Maybe I hadn't emphasised a specific point enough. Many of the tunes in CoX as I remember were largely just a smattering of generic drumset beats. There was often some kind of FX in the track, and it had some pitched instruments, yet it is difficult to find many that had a strong reliance on melody and harmony

From what I have heard, Cryptic basically just slapped together most of the original zone music using freely available looping software because there was no budget for music. Much latter on Paragon actually hired a composer for Going Rogue. To say the music got better was an understatement. At the very least at least there is a composer for CoT from the very beginning.

Kind of exciting to think that back then Cryptic was a small studio like MWM. And that maybe MWM is doing things even better.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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I like the way you are

I like the way you are thinking, Empyrean! I believe I shall take comfort in that thought also.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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HellWreckage is SO badass as

HellWreckage is SO badass as a composer. I mean.. the things we've heard from him are EPIC.

SO much better than ANY of the other games I've played

Crowd Control Enthusiast

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I gotta say, I was really

I gotta say, I really love The Secret World's music, but what I've heard from HellWreckage is at least as good.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Strange, i missed this thread

Strange, i missed this thread.

So, how do we clear this up. I think it is fair to start off by saying that i am not Mozart... Or Strauss. Neither am i Zimmer or Williams. And id like to point towards what i am making music for here. A MMO. Will i be able to make everyone happy and content with my writing and composing? Not in any stretch of the imagination i would say. But i have an idea for what i want in this game and what i missed in both DCUO, CO and COH. And while i wish i could just full on blow out a massive score, i can't.

See i have to make the music for the game, the game is not supposed to be made after the music. This is an interactive experience. The music, the score has to be dynamic ever changing for out of combat/in combat, traveling/. So far nothing ive made ive been satisfied with. I am yet still looking for the undertone, the foundation. And this is after the... twenty... Thirty or so tracks ive already made as mere concepts. See i am a perfectionist, highly critical of my own work and i rarely accept any of my tracks as release worthy.

When i find the foundation of this score... I will know... And so will you.

// The forever late to respond:

Hell

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I have my faith in you

I have my faith in you Hellwreckage and look forward to the CD I'm getting via the Kickstarter.

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1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

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Potentially tangential to

Potentially tangential to this topic ... but ...

I recently got curious as to what had happened to Enya after all these years. Had she ever done anything else besides "Enya" and "Watermark" way back in the 80s. So I did what most people would do these days, I took a trip over to The Pirate Bay and found a torrent with a pile of her recordings and downloaded them.

Imagine my distress when I discovered that just about the only other recording of hers since then that I actually had any appreciation for was "Shepherd Moons" and "The Memory of Trees" albums from 1991 and 1995. Pretty much everything after that was just a rehash/remix of something she'd done before.

Anyway ...

In the album "The Memory of Trees" there was a single track that was just ... transporting. The track title is "Pax Deorum" and it's 4:58, and it's sung in Latin (of all things) and near as I can tell it's supposed to be something about the Peace of the Gods. And amazingly enough, it's not that hard to find on youtube ...

Anyway, I mention this at all for Hellwreckage as possibly being something that might provide a point of inspiration for a piece of music that isn't necessarily "general use" but would certainly work as an example of a ... foreboding ... score that has the potential to put Players on edge. More of an "arrow in the quiver" sort of thing, rather than an entirety of the package of expectations.


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I generally go to Wikipedia

I generally go to Wikipedia and check the discographies. That tells me that Enya, for instance, has only released 3 new albums since 2000. Then I can visit the Pirate Bay and be more selective about what I DL or check out the Library, or go to Amazon for deals.

I agree that a lot of Enya's music is nicely moody and evocative. Something like this would work great as zone music.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Check out "In This Moment"

Check out "In This Moment" and use it for inspiration!

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I like the Power Armor

I like the Power Armor soundtrack Hellwreckage made.

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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Noctoral wrote:
Noctoral wrote:

Izzy wrote:
Did you listen to the City of Titans concept music yet?https://soundcloud.com/hellwreckage/sets/city-of-titans-concept-music

I hadn't listened to most of them. Thanks for posting the link.
After having listened to them, however, I am still rather at a loss of the grandiose, heroic feeling that I want for this game.
Of the 4 pieces, only Main Menu Concept Idea 1 and Power Armor had any sort of movement to them. But even they are very stale and a combination of boring and predictable chords which emulates a real melody, but is not one.
Most of these tunes (and this goes for CoH too) are just fast paced beats with synth drums. Now, that alone is not a problem, but the problem comes when that is all the music is in the game. For every zone. For every mission. For every AV.
There needs to be a much more vast array of music in the game in general.

I am truly sorry if I come of as rude now. But I honestly do not care at this point. Those tracks were concepts made over a year ago. Some even longer. This is not even CLOSE to what anything will sound like.

And know that there is a lot that goes in to making music for a game like this. The amount of music you are asking for is absurd and would take so much time for one composer to produce, not to speak what it would cost to produce such quantities of music. This is why no game has this to this date. Music will be made to fit the theme of the game and it's zones.

And I would also kindly ask for less inspiration. Trust me. People are throwing it at me and it just turns in to a swamp of sounds.

Now. I am sorry if I offended anyone. But this is just how things are.

// Hell

Music Lead

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Yeah, I definitely get that.

Yeah, I definitely get that. No doubt a lot of the music will hinge on getting that first "fly-by" of the various zones. Anything written now for Ironport will likely get the "Wrong! It's all wrong!" treatment once Hellwreckage gets to see it.

Let's not forget that one of the most iconic pieces of music we remember from CoH (the Atlas Park theme) was modified from stock music: a Halloween special and a motorcycle racing show (also here).

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Hail Beard!

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Is it weird that for most

Is it weird that for most music i cant immediately tell its suppose to be Heroic..

But when i hear something like this: https://soundcloud.com/versusofficial/versus-epic-mix-vol9
around 9:15 seconds and later,,, I just thunk.. `BINGO... Heroic!` ;)

Strange ehh? :(

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Hi guys, I'm rather confused

Hi guys, I'm rather confused at the moment: Are there already composers at work for City of Titans - Hellwreckage, is that you? I recently came across this project, and I happen to be a composer who loves to do the epic stuff (if it fits - which sure isn't always the case). I've got some demo tracks here: https://soundcloud.com/dreamwoodmmp/sets/orchestral-score-demo
I'd be interested in your feedback! ...And should you still be looking for a composer, I'd sure be happy to help. :D

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dreamwood wrote:
dreamwood wrote:

Hi guys, I'm rather confused at the moment: Are there already composers at work for City of Titans - Hellwreckage, is that you? I recently came across this project, and I happen to be a composer who loves to do the epic stuff (if it fits - which sure isn't always the case). I've got some demo tracks here: https://soundcloud.com/dreamwoodmmp/sets/orchestral-score-demo
I'd be interested in your feedback! ...And should you still be looking for a composer, I'd sure be happy to help. :D

I really like what i am hearing. And yes i am the music lead. I will be in touch soon.

Music Lead

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if go have Asylum Dungeons i

if we go have Asylum Dungeons i get one here link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MzhpZ5tVQU

whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich

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Does this account is still

Does this account is still the CoT account for the music ? https://soundcloud.com/damnedsounds/tracks :)


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