I'm wondering about the availability of content for those characters/players who have less common world-views. Let me explain my case as an example:
The word "anarchist" is mainly misapplied to people who are destructive, dishonest and generally self-centered. The truth is that the word literally means "believing in no governmental form". For most real anarchists (often called an-socs for socialist anarchists or an-caps for capitalistic anarchists), the Non-Aggression Principal is vital. In essence, this means that any use of aggressive force (as opposed to defensive force) is to be avoided at all costs and that anyone who uses force aggressively opens themselves to defensive attack.
In CoX it was impossible to hold this view because many foe groups were primarily drug dealers and such like who may or may not have been defending themselves against organized attackers (namely the government). Nearly all "street sweep" missions and many instanced missions required attacking individuals who, in this world-view, were peacefully and morally transacting business with mutual consent.
I actually timed it. I was never able to get a character past level 2 without breaking the Non-Aggression Principal. Not even to level 2 if I did the Tutorial. I would like to know that there will be sufficient content that will allow true heroes to advance without attacking without evidence (personally witnessed aggressive uses of force).
The aggressive use of force, obviously, includes emotional and verbal force in the manner of threats or blackmail, and also includes force against private property, such as trespassing.
I know that not all world-views can reasonably be represented in a game made for mass appeal, but in a game where there are three alignment vectors including "lawfulness", "violence", and "honesty/honor" there should be content for those who have the maximum lawlessness, the minimum violence and the maximum honesty/honor.
I believe that a Superhero MMO is likely to appeal to individuals with unusual world-views such as this. I would like to hear that odd world-views are being given due consideration.
Thank you.
CoyoteShaman
Seconded!
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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You could always solo as a Tanker and let the bad guys shoot first... They will, you know.
Be Well!
Fireheart
You're obviously not remembering how often it was in CoX that instanced missions required trespassing on private property (usually owned and solely inhabited by people *suspected* of doing specific types business or some such. The moment you trespass, you're the one aggressing and the inhabitants have every right to defend their property, their companions and themselves by attacking you. Further, this is only representative of one single unusual world-view. I'm sure there are many others which would also be held, especially by characters in a game where Superheroes and Supervillains abound.
CoyoteShaman
I feel like its more fun to blast card-carrying baddy goons with lasers than to go on hunger strike in front of the Hydra base until the Red Skull sees the error of his ways and turns himself in.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
And if I was asking for only unusual world-views to be represented that might be relevant. That is not, however, the case. I agree with your point, Radiac. I just don't believe one world-view, regardless of it being a majority, should be the only one to get attention. This is especially true when alternative world-views can get content that is also equally fun for other world-views.
I do wish, however, that you would refrain from resorting to hyperbole to make your points. No one, at any point, suggested anything similar to "hunger strikes". That's just an unnecessary exaggeration and demeans your opinions.
CoyoteShaman
while I like the idea behind the request I have to wonder how practical it is given the genre. if such a person had the world view you presented why would they be a "hero?" I suppose they could patrol the streets and only act on things they see with their own two eyes, but how many crimes are being committed that they don't see? if a contact is a police officer and he said that X person is wanted for X crime...would the hero in question act or would they say no as when they approach said criminal they are not doing the crime right then in front of them and just going about their daily lives peacefully when approached by said hero, not to mention that the source of information came from a governmental source/contact.
again...like the idea, but not sure it is really practical in a MMO setting. I suppose, if one really wanted to try and do this I guess they could do something similar to what Fireheart said...basically get in the baddies aggro range, then let them take that first shot and our hero now has the right to defend himself as he was coming to talk to them peacefully but they opted to come out 'guns blazin'. unfortunately, a good number of instanced type missions would be a no go due to the moral constraint on the part our hero...there's always those muggers in the streets I suppose to tide him over.
is there a hero in comics who we could use an example of this philosophy? I can't think of one off hand...
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
In comics, not sure. In literature, [url=http://www.repairmanjack.com/forum/content.php?4-published-fiction]Repairman Jack[/url] tries.
Also, if there's evidence that someone's rights are being violated in some instance, our hypothetical libertarian/P'Nan hero would go in. And pay the price with a smile if it turned out there wasn't.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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Oh. Steve Ditko's [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._A]Mr. A[/url].
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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As to the issue of "practicality": there would be no lost dev time since all the content which would apply to unusual world views could be used by normal world views.
As to the issue of "how would that be a Hero?" It wouldn't. As I mentioned and as has been stated unequivocally by the devs, there will be three alignment vectors and four categories of Alignment. Hero, Vigilante, Villain, and I can't remember the last one. The label of Vigilante would likely be applied to the character who follows the kind of world view I do, but I'm sure all world views could fit within those categories.
The most basic point I'm trying to make is this: different individuals have different opinions about what the word "crime" means. All I'm asking for is that the Devs take that into account.
Also, relating to the idea that the Libertarian would violate another's private property based on second-hand accusations, that would not actually be an Anarchist. No one who follows the Non-Aggression Principal would ever do such a thing. Now if a close and trusted ally indicated there was specific evidence that someone was currently being held against their will or non-consensually being hurt... That's a different story. The problem, however, is that NPC contacts are never around long enough to develop the kind of trust that would require.
Speaking of which, how does anyone with the very common world-view of "don't trust anyone" do anything in such a world? Anti-heroes were completely pigeon-holed in CoX and forced into the role of slave (do this or else) or truster (hey, buddy, do me a favor, will ya?). How "Super" is that? The devs have already said that won't be the paradigm used in CoT, for which I am eternally grateful. I just hope they don't limit character development to certain world-views.
I don't feel the need to go only to Comics for inspiration. Look at Payback and Ransom (both Mel Gibson movies). Main character has been harmed and has lost property in one case and must protect family/friend/etc. in the other. Both of those movies involve Anti-Heroes who go to extreme lengths to rescue or retrieve their goal.
As an actual example: Someone tells your character that the cops are looking for a drug king-pin and you have to go in to a potential hideout to get evidence.
Counter example: Your character sees two goons walking with a woman down an ally, when you peek around the corner you notice the woman is gagged and her hands are tied as the goons drag her through a door.
In the first case a limited number of characters would see that as an acceptable mission. In the latter case, I can't think of any Hero, Villain or anyone in between who couldn't find reason to pursue that. That's the difference between crafting stories for varying world views and crafting stories only for socially acceptable world views. Those that are crafted for unusual world-views nearly always also appeal to more mainstream world-views while those crafted for main-stream world-views are less appealing or even offensive to those with unusual world-views.
Keep in mind that I'm talking about Rated T For Teen type stories/world-views, not stories for people who have more "rarified" tastes. Those people have their own games, I'm sure.
CoyoteShaman
Edited to add: Also, please don't assume that I'm only talking about my world-view in this request. I merely used my own views as one example. As I said before, I'm sure there are many different world-views that would be attracted to a Super-whatever game if only there was content they could feel good about.
*plots to create a Care Bear and brain wash the baddies into being good.*
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
i agree u but i not like three alignment vectors i hope put 4 alignment vectors i make Villain follow code of honor. prefers not to take the lives of anyone, unless the job demands it, and usually ends up apologizing for his actions afterwards. He is also very loyal to his employer, as long as he is under contract. But while in the presence of individuals who behave dishonorably, cheat, mock, or otherwise do not follow the rules, he displays a ruthless and highly brutal behavioral pattern
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
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To my knowledge, the CoT alignment system will let you choose just how peaceful your character is. An anarchist would likely built to be [i]Lawless/Peaceful/Neural,[/i] in the sense that they don't believe in government or its laws, they do not act aggressively, and they have no loyalties but are generally trustworthy since dishonorable characters tend o do a lot of []i"aggressive"[/i] backstabbing.
So to answer your question, the devs have inadvertently made it 100% possible to play as an anarchist. You're welcome.
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I'm a strong advocate of an alternate leveling system. I once suggested a badge for making it to level 50 while not throwing a single damaging attack (so all Stuns, Holds, Slows, etc). It would be one of the rarest badges in the game. I could see an anarchistic character earning this by sneaking into places where suspected bad stuff was happening and calling the authorities. If morally reprehensible things were occurring but the legalities were murky then call a rival and have the two enemies duke it out.
I don't know how flexible the game will be in this regard but I would really like it if there were some other leveling method other than 'go in and fight stuff.'
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
That's more or less the idea behind the [i]"peaceful"[/i] alignment: using stealth and guile instead of raw damage to deter enemies. I'm sure we'll get that.
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This reminds me, when the game actually rolls out, I need to make an ultra-violent villain character named "The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight" and use, as his battlecry "Bad is good, baby! Down with government!" :)
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Regrettably, that may cause certain copyright holders to be Ticked off. ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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Not in the face! Not in the face!
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
The entire genre of superheroes is one of 'the greater good'. Few heroes in this genre are acting in an official capacity and even they tend to break the rules often for the greater good.
The idea of a superhero is one of using the gifts they have to correct or prevent the wrongs no one else can. Its ingrained into most every aspect of the superhero mythos. From the mask to protect the heroes identity to them being branded outcasts or criminals.
Your desire for a completely law abiding superhero are playing against type so to speak. There is nothing wrong with doing so on a conceptual level but for the devs to find a way to break the mold through 50 levels while still satisfying the genre basics is tough and we should understand that not every single player concept will be viable.
In short....to write the stories that give the option would take a lot longer and the devs just might not have the time to do it.
Not necessarily law-abiding. Personal rights respecting.
And I'm interested in seeing how much content they have that fits this just from needing to cover their three axes. ^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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oops i hit face
whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich
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Generally speaking, conflict spurs stories, and it requires people with motives to get involved in altercations - sometimes even starting them - to drive conflict. Most heroes are reactive, and that is the kind of tale with which modern audiences are most familiar, so I suspect you'll see a fair bit of "they attacked first." I cannot promise anything, though, and I doubt that every belief structure wherein "they hit first" stops applying after some amount of time, or after a repeated pattern of hitting first, will be represented. I can't make too many promises at all. But we are trying to make the choices you make as open-ended as the limitations of computer-governed storytelling will allow.
I'd rather not get into a debate in this thread over what the consequences of various philosophies are; I imagine that will to some degree be explored in the game, though I hope not with author tract levels of conscious devotion.
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