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Fully modeled bulge physics with jiggling.

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Kriegson
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Fully modeled bulge physics with jiggling.

As many have debated the need for attention to detail on breasts, clearly a side of this argument has been ignored.

Clearly we need multiple and in-depth options for our male superheroes. Thoughts?

Lothic
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Actually the suggestion for a

Actually the suggestion for a "package slider" (or at least something that'd let the guys have some way to sport a natural "bulge" in their pants) has been mentioned quite a few times in both this forum and the old CoH forums. For what it's worth I wouldn't have a problem with something like that being in the game.

I suspect (just given what the priorities for these things in games usually are) that we'd probably get multiple controls over breast size/jiggle long before they'd allow for male package adjustment, but in the interest of total customization we should ideally be allowed to adjust any body part on any character model.

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I put together such a Survey

I put together such a Survey some time ago.

Question:

Result:

See Full Survey Here.. and Results Here.

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third arm. what?

tripod?
.

what?

What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau

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"Some men were born lucky.

"Some men were born lucky. Others were born very lucky."

"And what was Patrick born?"

"A tripod."

--Susan Walker and Sally Harper, Coupling.

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Foradain wrote:

I vote that any 'package' slider should be tied to a foot size slider.

Foradain wrote:

"Some men were born lucky. Others were born very lucky."
"And what was Patrick born?"
"A tripod clown."
--Susan Walker and Sally Harper, Coupling.

FTFY.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I vote that any 'package' slider should be tied to a foot size slider.

Actually LOL.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I don't think genitals like

I don't think genitals like penises equate to breasts. They're very different.

Breasts are a visible part on women with nearly any clothing, but "packages" would only be visible with certain clothing.

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JellyJiggler wrote: I don't
JellyJiggler wrote:

I don't think genitals like penises equate to breasts. They're very different.
Breasts are a visible part on women with nearly any clothing, but "packages" would only be visible with certain clothing.

Wow another blast from the past - this thread was necroposted from almost a year and a half ago!
For what it's worth if by some miracle the Devs of CoT actually decided to give us a "package slider" for the guys one would hope people would use it maturely and only let their "bulges" appear in the "certain clothing" you mention...
But human nature being what it is everyone knows "everyone" would likely have that slider cranked to the max regardless. ;)

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Lothic wrote: But human
Lothic wrote:

But human nature being what it is everyone knows "everyone" would likely have that slider cranked to the max regardless. ;)

That's because giant packages draw a lot of blood-pressure from the brain and reduce the ability to think. Next thing you know, Hulk is eloquent.

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Or we could just let guys

Or we could just let guys have really huge and/or expensive cars or guns. Or unusably giant swords.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Lothic wrote: For what it's
Lothic wrote:

For what it's worth if by some miracle the Devs of CoT actually decided to give us a "package slider" for the guys one would hope people would use it maturely and only let their "bulges" appear in the "certain clothing" you mention..
But human nature being what it is everyone knows "everyone" would likely have that slider cranked to the max regardless. ;)

It's interesting you should mention this, as there's some historical precedent.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/26/e1/11/26e111064ca6e3cc1efcea363d39d69d.jpg

Apparently you CAN have bulges in any sort of equipment, and historical knights even did! You just need to be completely lacking in taste.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote: Apparently you
Halae wrote:

Apparently you CAN have bulges in any sort of equipment, and historical knights even did! You just need to be completely lacking in taste.

The Codpiece wasn't just for knights. It was a male fashion staple for several hundred years and it was actually considered to be in very "good taste" at the time. Notice what the following three fine noble gentlemen have in common:

Of course it made a bit of a comeback just in time for a bit of the ole ultra-violence me droogies...

Imagine if this particular article of clothing ever came back into vogue for today's high fashion... lol

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.....I wouldn't make use of

.....I wouldn't make use of it (could care less about the size of my character's package or boobs) but they could put it in I guess if they wanted too....

But I swear if I see a white ''water'' based villain named ''The Pervinator'' with a costume centering around his large bulge I am so gonna blame you guys.

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Nyktos wrote: But I swear if
Nyktos wrote:

But I swear if I see a white ''water'' based villain named ''The Pervinator'' with a costume centering around his large bulge I am so gonna blame you guys.

Yeah this is one of the unfortunate downfalls of attempting to give players as much "realism" as possible. Maybe in some Star Trek type utopian future we could ALL be mature enough to use a slider like this properly. Until that time it's probably safer to just to keep everybody running around with package-less Ken dolls. *shrugs*
I'd probably even have the Devs avoid anything even approaching a "codpiece" as a costume item as well because we'd only end up with clones of these guys which would be far worse than anatomically correct bulges...

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If you are going to have one

If you are going to have one for males you must have a "desert pack animal" toe slider for the females. Just to keep things equal.

I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right not to agree.

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Follies wrote: If you are
Follies wrote:

If you are going to have one for males you must have a "desert pack animal" toe slider for the females. Just to keep things equal.

Again to be absolutely clear I'd personally want there to be (at the very least):

  • a breast jiggle slider to control how much realistic jiggle a particular costume allows for
  • a package slider to display how much of a male-type "bulge" a given costume reveals
  • a camel toe slider to, again, display how much of a female-type "bulge" a given costume reveals

all for the sake of providing for "full realism" if nothing else.
But unfortunately I'm fully aware that games like CoT will probably never have these things because they must stand on the side of "political correctness" and do what they can to avoid "offending" anyone. Perhaps there will come a time when people will be able to maturely handle these kinds of details but it's not likely going to happen here in a MMO made in 2016.

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Maybe Mods could... buts

Maybe Mods could... buts thats just on our own machines. ;)

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Izzy wrote: Maybe Mods could.
Izzy wrote:

Maybe Mods could... buts thats just on our own machines. ;)

If CoT provides the same modding capability CoH had then we'll be able to do our own static costume item "replacements". But I'd be amazed if the system was going to be flexible enough to allow for "body slider" mods to be added client-side. Still the idea of keeping these kinds of things "private" on your own client might be a way to handle the question of whether these things are "too mature" to exist in the general game for everyone.

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There was a "Nude Patch" for

There was a "Nude Patch" for CoH, but, it was only the 'puter running it that the "artwork" was shown (client end). I would really be surprised if CoT gets to be a big thing, that one wouldn't show up...

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Garrilon wrote: There was a
Garrilon wrote:

There was a "Nude Patch" for CoH, but, it was only the 'puter running it that the "artwork" was shown (client end). I would really be surprised if CoT gets to be a big thing, that one wouldn't show up...

If CoT allows client-side modding like CoH did I'd expect a "nude patch" to be made within milliseconds of CoT going live. Heck those patches will probably exist within milliseconds of the avatar builder beta being released to the public for the first time. ;)
But of course what I'm talking about are sliders that would be visible to everyone, not just hidden in client-side mods. Those are the things that I sadly suspect are going to be a very long time in coming assuming they ever do.

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Now, a slider for things like

Now, a slider for things like exaggerated hands and or forearms might be a good thing. And an animation of a foot becoming huge to kick a "Baddie" would be humorous at least at first. An animation of someone "Hulking out" to their SH size would be cool, but, if we are going for a TEEN rating, only size slider for figure, and no jiggles I would guess... Although that might be a good thing, as I really don't wanna see an enormously obese man/woman with fat jiggles... We don't need that much realism...

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Garrilon wrote: Now, a
Garrilon wrote:

I really don't wanna see an enormously obese man/woman with fat jiggles... We don't need that much realism...

I would actually argue in favor of "enormously obese men/women with fat jiggles" in the overall spirit of realism. I wouldn't deny that most of the time people would probably use that ONLY to make joke/silly characters. But for the same reason that I would hope someday people could MATURELY use package and camel toe sliders I would also hope that there's a shiny future out there where people could maturely handle fat sliders without too much stupidity. One can only dream...

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Actually the "package" slider

Actually the "package" slider has been thought about. I think we may actually be going with it but nothing crazy. Camel toes? Umm... I don't think that has ever come up. You'd have to get VERY close to a female character to even notice such a detail. But it's been a specific boundary set by our backers that we remain "family friendly" so such things have to be approached cautiously, if at all.

Strangely, like the breasts, it's been the request of female players more than the male players if I recall right. I think they consider it "balancing" of the sexes.

And if you checked the video recently done showing off all the body slider you'll notice that's the "nude" version of the toon there. We are trying to fix that part. But the skin there is a default one that comes with the engine I think. We are making our own (did you notice the guy's eyebrows? :-o )

I'm not sure how such mods might be done. Not saying it's impossible but it's going to take some research by other people. Our assets will be in .pak files last I knew (at least that's how I've been test packaging stuff) and I don't know the particulars of how the engine uses them or their format.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually the "package" slider has been thought about. I think we may actually be going with it but nothing crazy. Camel toes? Umm... I don't think that has ever come up. You'd have to get VERY close to a female character to even notice such a detail. But it's been a specific boundary set by our backers that we remain "family friendly" so such things have to be approached cautiously, if at all.
Strangely, like the breasts, it's been the request of female players more than the male players if I recall right. I think they consider it "balancing" of the sexes.
And if you checked the video recently done showing off all the body slider you'll notice that's the "nude" version of the toon there. We are trying to fix that part. But the skin there is a default one that comes with the engine I think. We are making our own (did you notice the guy's eyebrows? :-o )
I'm not sure how such mods might be done. Not saying it's impossible but it's going to take some research by other people. Our assets will be in .pak files last I knew (at least that's how I've been test packaging stuff) and I don't know the particulars of how the engine uses them or their format.

To be completely fair I would actually agree that some of these suggestions (like the "camel toe" slider) would be the kind of detail that would be relatively unnoticeable even if they are implemented "correctly" in a mature, realistic way. While it's very cool that you are currently considering including some/all of these ideas I also would be the first to tell you that these obviously do not need to be a top priority for launch and I'd be happy to have them as some kind of post-launch update (as for example a game-store unlockable add-on pack) if that's what it took to get them. Perhaps as a game-store unlockable it would somehow be easier to control the issue of "keeping things family friendly" by making it a requirement to own the add-on pack to even be able to see these things on other characters. People who are "worried" about seeing things they don't want to see simply don't buy the add-on.

As to the question of whether these kinds of subtle details are even "worth" having at any point I would just point out that most costume/body creators in modern games now routinely allow you to adjust tiny facial details such as eye shape/width by what would literally be millimeter-level precision in the real world. Many of those kind of adjustments are arguably completely unnoticeable to any other player besides the person who created the character. So if we can have games that let us adjust such pseudo-invisible details as that then the idea of having access to other relatively unnoticeable (yet anatomically correct) body sliders seems that much more plausible/legitimate at some point.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Garrilon wrote:
I really don't wanna see an enormously obese man/woman with fat jiggles... We don't need that much realism...
I would actually argue in favor of "enormously obese men/women with fat jiggles" in the overall spirit of realism. I wouldn't deny that most of the time people would probably use that ONLY to make joke/silly characters.


I can assure you that all that ... MEAT ... (and jell-o) ... isn't just MUSCLES ...


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

I can assure you that all that ... MEAT ... (and jell-o) ... isn't just MUSCLES ...

Clearly any kind of "improved jiggle technology" wouldn't have to be limited to just something like this:

for player characters. It could be used in all sorts of NPCs as well.

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Since we hope to use our

Since we hope to use our chargen tech to help develop and test the NPCs I've passed this on. As long as it remains technically and realistically feasible I'm all for it.

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We need butt jiggly too

We need butt jiggly too though.

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

It's interesting you should mention this, as there's some historical precedent.https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/26/e1/11/26e111064ca6e3cc1efce...
Apparently you CAN have bulges in any sort of equipment, and historical knights even did!

O.O'
Wow, good for him... although with metal being rather stiff and unbending, any erection would've been painful as hell.

Halae wrote:

You just need to be completely lacking in taste.

And common sense, that's a prime target area if I ever saw one... might as well paint a bullseye on your crotch.

Garrilon wrote:

I really don't wanna see an enormously obese man/woman with fat jiggles... We don't need that much realism...

I do. I want at least one massively obese super-jumping toon. And he better jiggle. =P
Bonus points if I can have him land in a frog splash... and leave a crater or at least cracks in the asphalt. Or flatten any mobs he lands on. xD

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JellyJiggler wrote:
JellyJiggler wrote:

We need butt jiggly too though.

Given that your forum name is "JellyJiggler" I think you might be a little too biased towards this topic. ;)

Although butt jiggle in CoT wouldn't be a priority feature for me I'd say in the interest of fairness it ought to be a goal for games in general to eventually model the physics of any kind of "body jiggle" regardless of where it might naturally occur on the human body. If breast jiggle alone ends up being the first "baby step" towards that lofty goal for CoT then fine - there's always a chance that this game will be able to account for the rest of it eventually.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Although butt jiggle in CoT wouldn't be a priority feature for me I'd say in the interest of fairness it ought to be a goal for games in general to eventually model the physics of any kind of "body jiggle" regardless of where it might naturally occur on the human body. If breast jiggle alone ends up being the first "baby step" towards that lofty goal for CoT then fine - there's always a chance that this game will be able to account for the rest of it eventually.

I can't help but imagine the reason breast physics would be the first form of jiggle physics implemented is because of how much demand there must be for it. Knowing gamers, demand dictates that butt physics will be right behind breast physics. I wonder what would be the next form of jiggle physics that MWM would implement after that...?

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How about they make

How about they make everything jiggle, that way I could make a more humanoid slime monster thingy...

When people ask me about my religion, I tell 'em I'd worship Cthulhu.

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Jello Monster!

Jello Monster!

The thing is, 'jiggle physics' is fan service, and really has no other purpose. I could conceive of it as an aftermarket add-on to the game itself.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

The thing is, 'jiggle physics' is fan service, and really has no other purpose. I could conceive of it as an aftermarket add-on to the game itself.

I would be the first to agree that strictly speaking the presence of 'jiggle physics' in computer games is not an absolute requirement. But to me there's a significant difference between a feature that's added simply as overt (semi-vulgar?) "fan service" and something that's more an evolutionary improvement in the overall realism of the character models.

Now for example if I were asking for typical anime-style hyper bouncy breasts that are in perpetual orbital motion regardless if the character is moving or not then yes I would call that silly fan service. For the record I'm not asking for that and probably never would. I'm asking for the kind of subtle inertial motion that actual breasts make (under various types of clothing) in real life. Basically what I'm asking for is the same motions that are involved with animated hair, clothing and the like. Hair and clothes react to character movements and as far as I know no one is saying we should not have those things animate as realistically as possible. Did you call wings for characters "fan service" once CoH got them working?

Realistic jiggle physics (not the silly anime-inspired stupidity) is the next step towards perfectly detailed character models. If it has to wait until after launch that's fine, but at some point all games will eventually model it in some form or another just as games are regularly handling aspects such as hair and clothing today.

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I vote that any 'package' slider should be tied to a foot size slider.
.

"You know what they say about people with big feet"

"Yeah, they're clowns"

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Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:

*Talking about a codpiece as part of Renaissance armor*
And common sense, that's a prime target area if I ever saw one... might as well paint a bullseye on your crotch.

Now this interjection is coming in a bit late, but when I saw this I just HAD TO intervene.

I want to point out that it is in fact quite useless as a target. The plate armoring makes it 100% without fault impenetrable to slashes and cuts, and the extra distance would only help with reducing force of impact at the final target when a great big hammer is swooping down on your little extended crotch. there's also actually a lot of padding behind that plate armor, so you won't even *notice* most impacts.

It's not even good grappling material since you have to extend your fingers too far to exert any great grip force. Using it for leverage would probably be awkward and unnatural in armoured close combat, but that's conjecture on my part.
You could try to get a thin pointed weapon between the spaces, but it seems like the kind of place where it would just get stuck and leave you without a weapon to oppose the fully armored knight, giving them well enough time to end you rightly. Maybe you could use that as a lever if you're fast enough before the pommel crushes your face.

Also the people who could afford such greatly crafted armor are worthy opponents not to be trifled with, as they're generally nobles with the appropriate lifelong training. Against any enemy but their equal, this wouldn't even be noticable as a handicap, even if it would be an impediment at face value. Just take a look at who that specimen belonged to.

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Or they were just wearing the

Or they were just wearing the finely crafted armor for show and were well behind friendly lines and likely never left their tent/horse.

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Frankly I don't even need a

Frankly I don't even need a package slider. I would be happy with the male model's crotch area simply not being a flat, barren wasteland of nothingness.

Particularly in a game where character avatars will often as not be swathed in spandex, the lack of any and all geometry *down there* just looks wrong.

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This looks like a job for

This looks like a job for Super Cup! Don't let it dangle in the wind! Don't let the Villains violate you! Wear your Super Cup and protect those vital bits!

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Fireheart