Just wanted to explain a kind of scenario mission. Here goes:

You get a mission to thwart some sort of dealings in a warehouse at the docks. Your contact knows that the item you're searching for has gone through the hands of these badguys but since they're trying to pass it off, there's no telling where it might end up. So you head over to the mission door. To someone with Computer Use, Security or Scene Investigation they'll notice the computerized alarm system set up but only Computer Use, Security or Mech. Investigation will be able to disarm it.

You go in and the first group will warn you before attacking. Bribery or Interrogation will get you a 'clue' flavor text before you bust them up. Afterwards, one of the guards will remain as a clickable. Bio Investigation or again, Bribery, can get information from the half/unconscious guard for similar text as the Interrogation could have gotten you earlier.

More badguys to beat up, progress further, you come up to a few laptops hooked into the security system. If you didn't deactivate the security system, the guards wouldn't have warned you and simply attacked and the laptops would have been shorted/destroyed to keep hidden what was on them. Mech. Investigation can get those laptops working again but you may need Scene Investigation, Computer Use or Appraising to get any useful data out of it which would be flavor text about the group the badguys belong to and their immediate supervisor and perhaps who they'll have dealings with here.

You get to the main room at the end with all the smuggled stuff and beat the badguys. Upon reaching there, someone with Mystic Sense or Scene Investigation would realise something's afoot. Scene Investigation will be able to tell a fight (besides your own) recently occurred there and things were stolen. Appraising would tell you about the things currently there being smuggled along with where it probably came from. Mystic Sense will tell you the signature of a certain mutant's energy radiates the place as well as his likely motivation was to take a certain piece of gear the badguys were smuggling. Bio Investigation would revive a badguy and get answers from him that it was such-and-such bad dude with such-and-such color mutant skin. Charisma might get one of the badguys to utter the name of Bad-dude without context but that's a big tip off! Security would be able to unlock the laptops for future investigation while Computer Use will let you know for sure your item was accidentally stolen by someone in search of something else.

That said, you're a lot more likely to run into things your talent can interact with with certain types of enemies and missions. You won't find many machines in a magical lair; you won't find much security in a cave; you won't find many scenes to investigate when you're intercepting the enemy.

Hmm, can't say I like the approach. Of course, my approach isn't great either but to me, when it comes to talents like the ones in the comics, the part that makes a hero great isn't always what they can do, but also what they can't do and how they get around despite shortcomings.

Tannim222 wrote:

Our noncombat powers at one point were not too dissimilar to the OP. Actually we had many, many more of these "skills". Throughout the process they've been culled down to move away from the inflexible nature of designing them around specific attainment basis like knowledge of science, technical know-how, or magical skill. Instead the noncombat powers are exactly that, powers, which can be design per using our power builder system, and utilizing our animation customization can be designated by the player as to how or why their character can do what they do.

Well, the thing is, that kind of isn't even the target I was aiming at. I mean, it doesn't completely miss but starts to stray away when you mix in animations to be inclusive. Sure, you can show different means of opening a door: punch it, blast it, unlock it, phase it from existence, etc.

But what about bribing a thug for intel? What if breaking down the door sets off a security measure such as blowing up important data? My aim was more toward "what other things your hero can do" not "other ways your hero uses powers".

Tannim222 wrote:

One of the goals in the design of the noncombat powers system was to avoid the issue of missions utilizing specific skill sets for progress and gating rewards behind their use. There are multiple reasons why these were guidelines:
It avoids the issue of writers having to write multiple dialogues, mission sequences and more to compensate for one specific or multiple "skill" uses.
It avoids a player from entering a mission and being barred from progress either through the mission as a whole or locked out from side objectives for lacking the appropriate "skill".
Instead a mission can be designed using one system for the level design, and the mission can be navigated multiple ways depending upon the play style used.
In the example given of the security door, it doesn't require specifically a security skill or mechanical skill, the power is just a power skinned how a player wants. It could be an animation where the character fidgets with the locking mechanism, or they use their telekinesis to manipulate the lock, or a magic spell that forces locked barriers to yield to their entry. We don't designate characters be they pcs or npcs by their "origin" even on a technical level for design. A power that senses mutants or nature wouldn't be applicable.

I'm not sure how to reply to this but I'll try to address them point by point speaking from the perspective of my idea:

-There wouldn't be multiple dialogues. Unlocking the door would likely give you a 'blip' about the tech company (maybe some background about said company) that designed it, that it may have not been installed properly or something and that's it. If you didn't unlock the door, you just don't get that 'blip'

-Completing certain objectives such as disarming the security would only make other clickables available or not available. It doesn't involve extra dialog, just dialog in general for the stuff you can click. Mission sequence would be the same with the exception of flavor text from clickies appearing or not. It's almost exactly like CoH clickies but with more flare (and more numerous).

-Being 'locked out of' gaining certain clickies helps define what your character is good at, by making it known what the character *can't* do. But again, it's not like the reward is super valuable or completely exclusive. You choose what your character can and can't do similar to choosing an archetype.

-Having multiple ways to complete the mission is beyond the scope of this idea. At most, I'd say my idea might just inform the hero about additional missions or something like that. Different (*meaningful*) ways to finish a mission, I figured, was beyond the scope of the game as a whole.

-Again, I wasn't mentioning animations because they wouldn't really be necessary. Frankly, if all this would take is to use a "custom interact" button to unlock the door, you then ask "why even put locks in at all?" or "why would you need a power for it?" Just have the character click the door, a progress bar happens and then the door is unlocked.

If using this "customer interact" power grants the same positive as my idea (flavor text about the security system, the company that makes it, the interactions of that company with certain groups, etc as a little flavor) then it'll kind feel less 'interesting', at least to me. So my character will figure how to unlock advanced security systems, hack into computers, read/interrogate people, understand the biologies of creatures, have a keen understanding of happenings (even magical or alien happenings) etc with keen insight through various means of using their powers? My character will start to feel like a Mary Sue.

Tannim222 wrote:

And the entire system is optional, it does not have to be used to progress within the game, and it can be picked up at any time a noncombat power slot is unlocked or wait until any time after one is unlocked to assign it and use it, even after level cap. The system also utilizes a method for improving the npcs separate from combat powers to avoid having to divert augment sockets away from combat powers, allows for improving them at any time, and is compatible with any character rebuilds so that any ncp progress gained is not lost but can be reallocated to a new ncp in the event of a character rebuild.
Once again, I place the disclaimer that the system is not finalized at this point. It may get approved, set aside and never talked about again, or revised any number of times to not work in away way described thus far.

Perhaps I'm confused.

You mentioned improving the non-combat powers. What type of improvement are you talking about? You don't have to specify exactly but a ballpark (or intentional foul ball just to understand the aim of scope) would help me 'get' where you're coming from. To me, it looks like your non-combat powers aren't really talents but instead situations and has outcomes like changing the mission sequence.

Tannim222 wrote:

"Bribing a thug" isn't as simple as having the right talent or skill effect. The PC would need be able to approach and enter into a dialogue with the NPC which means having suitable reputation for the NPC to allow the PC to approach it. Then, the NPC would need to be designed with a need. In this case, for cash, and thus suseptable to bribery. Then, writers would need to have written up the mission to include bribery dialogue and account for any info / keys / whathaveyou to be earned this way vs. typical combat means.
This isn't to say we don't want to support the possibility, but it places a greater requirement into multiple systems and thus, multiple teams. Due to the impact this has on time and resources, is one of the reasons why the system has not been officially approved.
But, in just to be clear, there are several noncombat powers that are included in the system to make this a possibility.

Now I'm sure you're not understanding what I'm saying but it's likely because of me poorly explaining the idea.

There wouldn't be additional dialog, at most a menu if you had multiple applicable talents for a given situational click. In the case of bribery, cash was more a flavor limiter since targets of bribery would still be interactable after the fact. But if you also had interrogation skills or something, those would be options in a menu when you click them. No dialog involved except for the intentionally inserted flavor text you could extract from them.

Tannim222 wrote:

There is a difference between multiple ways to negotiate an encounter and creating content for specific use.
If missions have to be written to account for if some one has a specific skill or talen, and a player doesn't have it, then they have a restrictive experience. It also adds more difficulty to writing and designing missions to make sure the various use of talens / skills are represented throughout the game world rather equally. To do otherwise risks developers having made a talent that is of little use to a player because they only experience it 2% of their entire playing career. Its earns no good will from the player who took what amounts to something useless.
In order to make sure these different talents are equally weighted to their possible use throughout the game world would take significant resources to create and maintain.
Instead, the direction was taken to not restrict content behind specific noncombat powers, instead the noncombat power can be used to affect the way a player navigates encounters already designed within the game.

I can understand the point that it would seem like a restrictive experience, but in any game, rules restrict the player to provide specific rewards for following those rules and keep them within a certain scope of the game's play. The idea isn't really restricting them in a gameplay sense, but primarily there to reward those who chose a certain path. None of this would affect mission sequence or balance since the primary reward is flavor text.

Tannim222 wrote:

This would indeed require additional writing to be done, in which every clickable object must have all this information attached to it, so composition would need to make sure every object has lore dialogue attached to it. Unless is very specific to the story being told, its not a good use of resources to allocate toward this very low hanging fruit.

I suppose this is all you had to say since the majority purpose is to give an avenue to provide additional writing to give the player more information about the game world, its inhabitants, their interactions, etc. Although I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt they can write inclusively enough not to need to write special blips of flavor text for every type of way to interact with a clickie. Of course, if there is no desire to write more info in clues like in CoX then the idea has no basis. If there is but keeping the acquisition the same as CoX, I'll say you could do more with it. The idea isn't quite as complicated as you're bloating it to be.

Tannim222 wrote:

This comes back to the multiple ways to negotiate an obstacle. Example of the locked security door. The idea is that a player can bash it down or find the guy who has the key and beat him senseless and unlock it. If a player has the appropriate interaction noncombat power, they can pick the lock. If they have an appropriate interaction power they can figure out who has the key. If they have an appropriate interaction power they can sneak up on him and pilfer it, or if they can (again with appropriate noncombat powers) be able to approach him and engage in dialogue to convince him to hand it over. These are multiple powers, not one or even two.
And yes, there is no difference between a "magic" ward locking a door, and a computer panel locking a door for one of the interaction powers. If a player wants to RP that their character doesn't know magic, they don't have to use it, but the power will allow for it to be done. Its a trade off from preventing issues about specific content for specific powers and use of resources for design.
It would be like creating an NPC that can only be defeated if a player has a hold and only a hold. If a player enters the mission and only has ranged damage, they can't defeat this NPC and will hopefully be able to ignore it and press on. The same is to be said of the noncombat powers and their use.

I'm actually curious what other types of interaction these powers would have. Unlocking a door is rather mundane though. Like you say, you can simply kick down a door.

My suggestion wasn't about unlocking doors though (disarming a security system without alerting the people inside is tougher), it's completely different. It's not really meant to negotiate obstacles, it's assessing situations through non-combat means. Not overcoming a situation, not changing a situation, not traversing a situation. Just assessing it. Like the difference between Batman busting up a warehouse for clues and Booster Gold busting up the same warehouse with possible press coverage entail.

Well that's a lot of information I didn't know about. Also didn't realize the scope the system was aiming for. I half thought you guys had just considered a non-combat system but were saving delving into it until the meat and potatoes of the other systems was done.

The goal of my idea was to not be intrusive on combat, require little else than a menu set-up, dialog, a dialog tracker and setting up clickies around. If the scope is to have layered or pathed missions to be influenced by these powers, I just hope you don't bite off more than you can chew. And I can't stress enough how important 'limits' are when it comes to extra stuff like this. Choosing to do extra stuff like this should require sacrifices, just like choosing a travel power (or more than one) should require some sort of sacrifice in a pool of limited choices. You don't want a character who can do everything by themselves. In response, people are likely more prone to rolling more alts if there is that limit and yet many choices.

Hmmm I actually like that dynamic. I was not a stranger to skipping travel powers on characters it didn't make sense on in CoX, so the option for choosing multiple interact powers or sense powers instead gives other types of builds rather than feel punished most of the time. But won't these type of powers feel mandatory if the can change the course of a mission?