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Just poking around on the new forums for The Phoneix Project. I'd like to give my input on the development of the force fields powerset... so, who do I talk to?
I'm especially curious if you'll be using the same 9-tier system that CoH used, or something else entirely.
It's too early to construct specific powersets at this time.
And it certainly won't be based on CoH's combat formula, so, that would not be a good starting point.
It would be better now to discuss how a Forcefield Powerset should 'feel'.
Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator
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Sounds great, but you didn't answer the question, ZM.
PK is a bit of an 'expert' on how Force Fields worked in CoH. He doesn't want to just shoot the breeze with everybody who visits this forum, he wants to talk with people who are actually outlining and developing the powers. So do I! I was [u]Involved[/u] at MWM, but there's no Development threads on this forum.
Be Well!
Fireheart
As someone that posted guides on Forcefields, I invite you, PhiloticKnight, to weigh in.
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
No one is working on developing the Force Field powers at this time. That's my point. There's no one to talk to. It's not, at this time, in development.
It would be like asking to speak to someone about how the power button icons will look. You can't. No one is developing that now.
When a powers developer is ready to work on Force Fields, they'll open up a thread on it.
Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
I think that there should be two different choices for Force Fields: Hard and Soft. A Hard FF is more of the Sue Storm type...able to just take damage and not crack. The Soft kind deals more with either absorbing the blow and cushioning it or diverting the damage aside. I'm pretty sure we can't have both though.
I see most FF characters as the classic Defenders. They can shield themselves, shield the team, shield targets at a distance and so on. However I don't think that it should be a purely defensive set. What if it included 1-2 powers that could be used to attack with?
Too early to judge I guess but that's my early take.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
I can appreciate how the Devs might like to actually have a game structure developed, before working on Powers. However, I also think that being able to tap into an existing body of power-set discussion could be very useful for said Dev. I know that there was a ton of discourse going on on the MWM forums, even without a powers framework, we were talking about what we felt was important and how to apply some of the mechanics that were being dreamed up.
I think there's a lot of untapped knowledge and creative potential in this community, and having a way for us to express it can keep us involved while the Devs work out the kinks.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Would it be crazy if force fields were part of the tanking sets?
Maybe insane protection for just yourself and it weakens as you expand the field to protect others.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
The pool of knowledge? What pool of knowledge? The only one I know of is how forcefields worked in CoH.
Forcefields in CoT may work very differently since the combat mechanics are different.
Can you give me an example of a specific thing you might say about Forcefield mechanics that's not in direct reference to how CoH did it?
Pretend I'm the dev who will work on Forcefield powers (we don't have one specifically assigned to FF yet... it might be someone who volunteers a year from now). I don't know how the mechanics of battle of CoT is going to happen. I don't know how the mechanics of defense or resistance might work.
Now sell me on the idea that you have specific suggestions to offer drawn from a pool of knowledge which will be useful for when a FF set is being constructed.
Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Perhaps maybe the point here is... that they'd like to provide their thoughts on the over all subject of force-fields and the mechanics of them. Not how they'll be specifically applied to the mechanics which have yet to be considered, so that when consideration of them occurs, their voices will be considered.
I can certainly appreciate your view that its too early to discuss how they should work, but it's generally never too early to have an earnest discussion ... provided we're not trying to promise things we can/can't deliver based on decisions we haven't made yet, and we all understand that it's a long road between now and then with a lot of potential turns in how things occur.
And of course - that anything we discuss at this point is kind of theoretical with no basis in the actual mechanics, as there are none. But I think everyone spends a bit of time tossing things about. I'm always interested in hearing what people have to say even if it's not always something I'll find directly connected to what I'm doing.
Just my 2 cents as a former FF lover from days of yore.
As I said, they're welcome to talk about Force Fields. I didn't say they can't. They can be quite earnest about it, too. Here is exactly what I said:
But Fireheart made it quite clear he doesn't want to talk about it in general. He wants to grab an ear of a dev and have input into its mechanical structure. Which is fine if we're at that point, but we aren't there yet. They can't talk to a developer about the mechanics because we don't know which developer is developing it and the what the finalized underlying mechanics are.
E.g., you're on the Art Team. Are you ready to talk to players about the color scheme and shape and iconography of the game's power icons in detail from someone who is an expert on it? Or just talk about it in general without committing to shape or size or color?
The latter is fine and I'm not stopping them. The former is premature.
Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Hmm, If I were a Dev, I might resent someone who tried to grab my ear and monopolize it. I didn't mean to do that.
What I value is the discussion, the sharing of ideas and refinement of same. In said discussions, we only had 'how it used to work' and 'how we wished it worked' to go on. Because, as ZM said, we don't actually know how the Devs are structuring the thing.
And there is a Fear that the Devs are going to pull something completely heinous out of a book of Vogon Poetry and slap that down as 'how it works'. Because it's almost guaranteed that the Devs are not going to be experts on how every little bit of the old powers worked in-game. But there are members of the community who are Passionate about individual powersets and have delved deeply into how they worked.
So I'm trying to encourage discussion Beyond mere generalities of 'look and feel', so we can pool our knowledge about what 'mechanics' from the old game Worked and what didn't. We can discuss 'how it works' in other games and what is good/bad about that. Such that the eventual Dev will have pre-generated pool of data to work with, when designing the New 'how it works', instead of trying to make it up from scratch. Even more, they'll have an established sub-community that they could discuss ideas for 'how it works' with.
And I think that part of my 'energy' on the matter is due to the way the current forums seem to have cast us all... no, how it has made Me, once more an 'outsider' rather than a 'partner' in the development of the game. The Devs have withdrawn behind the curtain of the Kickstarter and the reorganization, leaving the rest of us on the outside, with no real involvement, or clues to what is going on inside.
So, as the most visible member of the team, my... upset ends up splashed all over you, Zombie Man, which isn't my intention at all. I apologize for that.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I may be able to help a little. i never used forcefields in CoH but I did use it in Champions as part of the ego abilities. If I remember correctly you could put a forcefield around yourself or an ally and it would absorb a certain amount of damage before it would disappear. One I found it useful cause it gave me a small window of opportunity to protect myself while I regenerated or protect an ally while I healed them. It's been years since I played so I dunno if they changed it. I played the first few months after launch.
"In the end there can be only one" The Highlander
Waves to all in the thread. Zombie hadn't known this, but I'm one of the people working on preliminary designs for powers. I'm not "the person" nor is there "the person" just "a person" quietly working in the background. Well not so quietly as I've commented here and there about stuff I knew was ok to discuss.
Fireheart what I can tell you is the team working on every aspect of the game are very passionate about what we are involved with. For those of us working on powers, we are very knowledgable on many aspects of game design, and collectively i don't think there isn't sometime someone has intimate knowledge about how things worked in CoX (from an outsider's persespective). While the technical knowledge, and experience of play, and some direct bits of info we have gives us insight into how things worked (or didn't) how they worked (or didn't), we don't know the entirety of the old system from the inside (we weren't devs at Paragon after all).
We encourage discussion. If one of us on the powers team isn't commenting, its probably because we're busy. Many of us have jobs and other real life responsibilities and work on this game is getting put into the mix of the juggling act we call our lives. So on behalf of my fellow team mates, pardon us for our silence. Meanwhile, talk about what you liked and didn't like from the old game or other games with similar concepts. Talk about what you'd like to see.
Bear in mind, we are working with a different engine, which offers new opportunities to us to try different things. As such there may be contentions players had with the old system that have no bearing in ours, there may be reasons why things did or didn't do what they did or didn't that are extremely valid for a great number of reasons, some of them may be applicable to our game, or not at all.
While I'd love to show everyone what we have in mind for many of our concepts, there were some rough lessons learned from doing things that way. If we did that for every power set, every mechanic, or every power, we will never get a game out for everyone to enjoy. And believe me we want to enjoy it as much as everyone else does. So please talk away, we will be watching, and you never know, we may just surprise you with what we do.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
In terms of how FF should "feel", I always disliked the entire set really being set and forget in CoH. Sister Psyche was a common FF user and even in the few scenes we saw with her, the powers didn't feel that way.
I think support/buffs as a whole could use a mixture of the past (fire a bubble and someone has it for 4 minutes) and something more innovate (an active playstyle around protecting your team)... When I think of a heroic FF user, I think of a civilian about to get smashed by falling debris, and the FF user projecting a bubble around them just before they get hit, protecting them from all damage, and then powering the shield down and flying away to the next crisis...
How that "feeling" can get translated into game is beyond me though :)
The reason for this course of events in comics/TV/movies/etc. is Drama!!!!!!!!!
The only equivalent in a game is when you drop a shield or a heal on a teammate at the last moment because things are so hectic. When a game tries to force such a scenario on players it almost invariably comes across as forced and contrived, e.g. you're there but cannot protect or save the NPC until the script hits a predetermined point and allows you to act.
Because Drama!!!!!!!!
As I said in another thread, one of the reasons I liked the Regeneration set was that it had two or three click-powers, including one that could be used proactively if I knew a lot of damage was about to come in ([i]and[/i] they were available more than once every 5+ minutes, even without +recharge and Hasten). They provided a feeling of control that is unavailable to toggles and the old "I hope the RNG doesn't hate me today" mantra.
This does require a user-friendly UI when it comes to applying boosts to team mates, as opposed to trying to find and click on them on a screen hosting other team mates, a dozen enemies, and forty attacks, with all the associated particle effects.)
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Sorry about the delay in a response. I too have a life outside of the internet. In fact, my life has recently gotten busier, as I have twins at home that were born on July 30th.
I was going to upload a picture of them here, but when I tried to use the upload feature of the forum, I received the following error message:
[code]An AJAX HTTP request terminated abnormally.
Debugging information follows.
Path: /file/ajax/field_attach/und/form-32rq3wvPhynoJ20i3qk6UwHfV-OyPS4AD6_rAgKMqv4
StatusText: n/a
ResponseText: 413 Request Entity Too Large
nginx/1.2.2
ReadyState: undefined[/code]
I also got an error message when I just tried to send this message....
[code]413 Request Entity Too Large
nginx/1.2.2
[/code]
I couldn't get past the error until I reloaded the screen so that the attachment that I was attempting was cleared. Looks like these forums have a few bugs to work out.
Now, back to Force Fields. I can understand the reluctance to talk about actual power structure, so most of my thought will probably have to wait until we know the limits of the engine and what is capable of being done.
As for the "feel" of the set, I would definitely like it to be a very active set. I don't like the "fire and forget" mentality. I see the proper Bubbler as almost the same as a Blapper, a glass cannon that throws force fields all over the place to do various tricks based on enemy and ally positioning. Someone that controls the battlefield, by manually forcing the environment to do his/her bidding. If you see the battle as a chess board, the Bubbler should be the one moving the pieces to where their team wants them.
However, as Fireheart was saying, all that we can go off of right now without more information from the Dev team as to the power structure and game engine limitations, is to go with what we already know - which is how CoH did it. I've presented my overall "feel" that I would like, so to give SOMETHING to work off of, I'd like to present my dream list of "CoH Force Fields Fixed".
If I was designing the Force Fields powerset for CoH, I would have done it this way (in no particular order):
1. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Deflection_Shield]Deflection Shield[/url] and [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Insulation_Shield]Insulation Shield[/url] would have been merged into one single shield called "Defense Shield" that gave the same benefits of both powers, but with a 2 minute timer. The need to bubble more frequently would offset the merging of the two powers into one for convenience. Also, the Defense Should would be castable on any entity, including yourself or even an enemy. Why would you want to buff an enemy? I have no idea, but someone creative might find a use for it. Perhaps when used in conjunction with a Mind Controlled enemy... I don't know.
2. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Personal_Force_Field]Personal Force Field[/url] and [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Detention_Field]Detention Field[/url] would also be merged into a single power "Impenetrable Field". I would consider this one the "Tier 8" power, and it also could be used on any entity. It would be a Toggle that would act essentially as Detention Field, minus the immobilization. The target cannot be affected by anything outside of the "Glass Dome of Doom", and also cannot affect anything outside of it themselves. The toggle would have a slowly exponentially increasing endurance cost over time, so that you can't run it at all times. And, with being a toggle, you can manually force it to turn off at any time you wish. I picture this as being the ultimate "oh crap" power. Run across an AV that you're not prepared for while on a team? Put them in this Field and run like hell. Playing solo, and running low on life because you go in too far over your head? Cast it on yourself and book it. Does it look like your Blaster teammate is about to bite the big one when that Rikti with a giant sword gets to them? Use the field on him for a few seconds to help them avoid that first big "swipe".
So, I've now combined four powers into two, which gives me seven powers left... let's see.
3. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Dispersion_Bubble]Dispersion Bubble[/url] No change, except perhaps to take away the "sleep hole" in the status defense.
4. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Repulsion_Field]Repulsion Field[/url] No change - I've found SO many uses for this power over the years, it's not even funny. Jump into a giant mob and knock them all away! Keep it on at all times as your own personal "melee" shield! Control enemy position by bouncing them in a certain direction! The possibilites for this power were endless, and I wouldn't change a thing.
5. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Repulsion_Bomb]Repulsion Bomb[/url] Castle basically "fixed" this power before the game was shut down, so I would have left it exactly as-is. It was perfect just the way he left it. A truly awesome power.
6. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Force_Bubble]Force Bubble[/url] I'd leave it the same, except decrease the size by half.
7. [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_Fields#Force_Bolt]Force Bolt[/url] No change, a perfect power as-is. If I did ANYTHING to it, I'd make it do the same damage as a Defender's Tier 1 blast power, so that Bubblers could use it as another attack to add to their chain, to increase the damage that their primary can add to their toolkit.
8. Now we get to use up the two slots the I freed up. So, for the first "new" power, I'd make what I call "Force Quake", which would essentially be the same as [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Earthquake#Earthquake]Earthquake[/url], except centralized around the Bubbler him/herself. It would be a toggle that would have an exponentially increasing endurance cost, so that it could not be abused.
9. And for my final adjustment to PK's "Fixed Force Fields" set, I present to you the new Tier 9 power, Force Wall. It would root the Bubbler in place while it was being used, but it would create a translucent "collision detection wall" around the bubbler, perhaps 3/4th the size of the original Force Bubble. Nothing could go in or out past it, including attacks from your or your enemy or yourself. Whatever is inside, stays inside, whatever is outside, stays outside. When used in conjunction with the new Force Bubble and Repulsion Field, as well as Force Bolt, the Bubbler could have ultimate control of the playing pieces on the battlefield.
So, that's how I would have revamped Force Fields in CoH. I will have more to say for City of Titans once I know what the basic power structure and game engine limitations would be. however, I will note that I LOVE knockdown/knockback/knockup, and if such a feature is implemented in CoT, I would hope that you would also have "Enhancements" (or whatever the CoT equivalent would be) that would allow you to control the extent and power of your knock* powers. For example, if knockback could be made into knockdown with a "Reduce knockback" enhancer, or vice versa with a "increase knockback" enhancer.
Finally, here's the babies:
[img]http://www.bennettforoffice.org/babies/after%20birth/IMG_20130803_135255_737.jpg[/img]
If you read the small print below the 'Choose File' button you'll see that it only allows text files to be uploaded. I made the same mistake, at first. Looks like that all worked out with the [img] tags, although that photo is rather huge.
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[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Gratz on the twins, PhiloticKnight!
I too agree that Forcefields should be a bit more dynamic. Perhaps a couple of longer term powers or toggles, but requiring more decision making in the use of powers may keep the set from becoming stale.
I had a character in Autoduel Champions (anyone remember that accessory game attached to Car Wars?) that used a force beam and erected force walls. The walls were limited to a maximum length, or could be formed around something in a small radius. I was able to control the density of the wall, from soft to hard. That was a nice feature as sometimes I wanted just to stop something (a car) without causing major damage.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to use an enhancement-type on the powers to change the way they behave? Want a soft control, augment with this. A hard control, or effect, then a different modifier. I'm not sure the coding guys will appreciate it, but that would be amazing customization.
While I agree with PhiloticKnight's idea for location control, I also like the thought of both hard and soft effects to some of the powers. I just wonder if we can get both in one power system.
Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Thanks for the picture of the two bubblers!
Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
I loved my FF Defender from CoH but only after they made the change so I can bubble ALL my team with a single power.
On an 8 person team with 1 MM in the old days I would have to re-buff 13 'teammates' (inc the Pets) twice each. That was pure frustration and a PITA.
While i get the desire to make a Powerset more 'active' the buffer community at large greatly appreciated the change in how Buffs could be applied for certain powers.
And having to time the bubble to JUST AS THE ATTACK WOULD HIT = Twitch gameplay.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
I agree with most of the changes above. I wouldn't say which powers I would add or drop from the group but here are four others that I always felt were lacking in CoH that a FF would have needed...
1) Force Armor: A single target buff similar to Fortitude in Empathy, but purely focused on making someone extremely hard to kill.
2) Prison Field: A location toggle that summons a field that keeps all enemies within it instead of repelling them
3) Force Wall: Location Toggle that repels in the same effect as CoH Force Bubble, but instead the user can toggle to a specific location.
4) Force Bubble: Self Toggle with Collision Detecting Field with radius same size as Dispersion Bubble... Essentially creating a sactuary for team members. Same as your above idea but just calling this one force bubble.
I like the ideas of prison fields and force wall because force walls could come in handy with protecting certain targets or trying to keep ambushes from entering a certain room, and prison field has so many great applications it would make playing a FF a ton of fun :)
One of the few toons I actually took to 50th was a Bubbles/Dual Pistol defender; aside form her my other experiences with bubbles came from masterminds mostly. I'll toss in a hated vote for 'cast and forget' force fields. I found myself kept pretty active on my defender, what with using a force bolt to knock some foes off-their-guard and off their feet a lot (it seemed to me to have been a somewhat overlooked tactic), tossing those 'overhead popping bubbles whatever-they-were-called' bombs that made everyone around their target fall down, bubbling up a team and oh yeah, also making some real freakin' attacks. Also, I really enjoyed the summonable FF generator that would trail along behind you like a puppy and keep you (and others) safe and able to focus on other tasks like control or (once again) attacks.
You wanna play your bubbler as a one-trick, 'this is all I do' pony, you go ahead and make them that way. I'd like to be able to make a character that can do more than that, that has more than one trick or power set up their sleeve.
___
"What you say is rather profound, and probably erroneous." - Joseph Conrad
“The universe is made up of stories, not of atoms” - Muriel Rukeyser
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team[/color]
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My primary experience with force fields in CoH was with a Bots/FF MM (also became my primary villain).The problem I had with the set was about half the powers were useless. I was better off buying a pool power or in the case of my MM buying the attack powers from my primary. Force Bolt , Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, Dispersion Bubble , and Personal Force Field were the only powers worth taking in the set, and a FF user could just take Deflection, Insulation, and Dispersion Bubble and be good to go. I just always felt the other support sets had more to offer out of their nine powers.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
So, in this case you'd have preferred a Power Pool version of Force Fields?
Be Well!
Fireheart
Ahhh....,
- Force Fields...the 'TK' part of my 50th level Mind Controller - Psi-Chic. No semi-transparent force fields picked...meaning no Deflection Field, Insulation Field or Dispersion Bubble because they weren't solid fields. She had all the adequately represented physical, telekinetic impact powers which included Force Bolt, Repulsion Bomb, Personal Force Field, Detention Field and Force Bubble. To me, Force Fields are essentially just that...a Field of impenetrable Force, and that barrier works both ways - so it's kind of hard to attack anything or anyone while surrounded by said Field unless the Force being used to create it is used in an offensive way (...i.e. - Force Bolt, Repulsion Bomb...).
- I did make a character whose background alluded to a 'form fitting Force Field' which allowed her to interact with the environment (...and attack...) while still maintaining exceptional resistance and protection from harm. This, of course, was emulated though the Invulnerability Power Set. I agree with PK about combining Force Bubble and Dispersion Field as I never really quite understood why Force Bubble didn't provide any bonus to Defense or status protection...), but I'm slightly against Deflection and Insulation Fields as they don't carry the same sense of impermeability as the others do. Repulsion Field was OK, but Force Bubble did a better job and clearing the room and creating some breathing space...
- How about a 'form fitting field' which would give someone (...or yourself...) a glow not unlike Temp Invulnerability to a Personal Force Field that can be used on Players (...now -THAT'S- PROTECTION!...). Of course, there's a possibility of some griefing being caused by a Force Field character slapping Personal Force Fields on others without their consent, but this could be easily resolved by having said power only able to be used on those on your team (...much like Recall Friend...), and lasting long enough so that even though the target player can't attack - they do get a moment's respite to recover from an otherwise nigh terminal condition...and that's something you see happen often in comic books... ^_^
We could be here all day if we start picking apart the old CoH power lists: everyone had their faves, the ones they never used, ideas on how to make them better - and rarely do those lists sync up!
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"What you say is rather profound, and probably erroneous." - Joseph Conrad
“The universe is made up of stories, not of atoms” - Muriel Rukeyser
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team[/color]
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Congrats on the twins! (I'm a twin myself! Myselves?)
Captain of Phoenix Rising
instead of a force field power set what about a force field defensive power only one and it works on urself or another and it can be a choice in the support options , as theres no need to have it for every AT in game
Some possibilities to think about.
Force Wall acts as a "deployed pet" that simply acts as block on Line of Sight as far as attacks and powers and movement is concerned. Think "portable wall" that you can deploy in front of you. It could still be substantially transparent (since it's a wall of "force" rather than something solid) so you could still see through it, but wouldn't be able to make a Line of Sight through it.
Another possibility would be setting up Force Fields to either operate as a Defense Buff/Accuracy Debuff like they did in CoH, creating "hit or miss" performance ... or setting them up as being Ablative Damage Absorption, making them sort of like an "over heal" that gets burned down by incoming damage ... or setting them up as being Resistance Buffing, like Sonic did ... or setting them up as introducing a passive Range Debuff to all incoming attacks, because the Force Field in effect acts as if the person it is protecting is "further away" than they really are, which in turn brings into play Range Accuracy Penalties, possibly up to an including making the Force Fields function very effectively against long range incoming damage, but less well against melee damage. Think of this latter option as basically being a "personal SLOW field" sort of protection scheme.
The Range Debuffing option is perhaps one of the more peculiar ideas because it's the kind of thing that influences how (hostile) combatants have to position themselves in order to successfully inflict damage on the people protected by the Force Fields ... ie. they have to get closer than is normal. You can then wind up with a mismatched proposition where the enemies lacking Force Fields are attacking from what amounts to their "long range" while the Force Field protected friendlies are able to attack those enemies from within their "short range" leading to a disparity in Accuracies for the two groups because of the way that the Force Fields are making incoming attacks "function" as if they were happening from further away than they actually are (so get closer in order to compensate).
Absolutely agree on the Force Bolt, and I actually considered making a Ninja/Force Field Mastermind once and slotting Force Bolt with a Kinetic Crash Set so as to pump up the amount of Knockback into the 50+ Mag region in the (mistaken) idea that doing so ought to be sufficient to overcome AV protection against Knockback. That character never made it past Level 10 because I found I couldn't stand refreshing the bubbles on my pets all the time, even if doing so did make them effective mini-scrappers.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I really like this idea. Tacticians and their ability to create walls added a very interesting and fun element to AC2. I can't think of another MMO off the top of my head where players can create solid walls as a combat ability.
I like the idea of the small force wall that can deployed as well. As far as MMO examples, I can in fact name one off the top of my head. There's the Cover Shield ability in Star Trek Online. Engineering branch characters automatically learn it at a certain level, and the player-controlled bridge officers can be taught it as well. The character sets up a small device that blocks LOS and provides total protection from direct attacks, though AoE events will still apply. The Cover Shield can be directly targeted to bring it down, or it will expire after a set time. This sort of thing would work as a fire and forget device for a tool-based character, or perhaps still with a FF-based character, with some sort of continuous power / endurance cost to keep folks honest.
Concerning the "feel" of forcefields, I think that City of Heroes both got some of it right, but also was missing something important when it came to making forcefields feel like, well, forcefields.
Although, since CoT is divorcing effect from animation, it might be a bit narrow-minded to call it "forcefields" in this case. I'll use "Barriers" instead, so you can make force, fire, ice, stone and so on sets of it, too.
Anyway, when playing a hero who specializes in barriers there are really two things I expect from them.
One is what CoH got right. Putting defensive barriers on allies. It's the essential video game forcefield thing. Point at ally, ally gets shield. I loved how powerful the shields were in CoH, but they might be a bit overkill if you're making a totally new game. Still, this is the core of a barrier set, so it should have some power.
The other is battlefield manipulation. Walls of force/fire/ice/stone that make the enemy walk around it, forceful shoves that launch an enemy away, temporary platforms for allies to gain elevation or cross gaps, capturing an opponent inside a barrier of some kind, making an area that enemy ranged attacks can't enter, and also basic pummeling attack to do okay, but not great damage. This is sounding more like a control set than a buff/debuff set, and in a way, it is. A Barrier character should be all about controlling the shape of the battlefield and keeping his/her allies safe.
But this raises a bit of a dilemma, too. If barriers really need to be both control and buff/debuff to get the iconic powers, then what do you classify it as? If a control set has the best defensive buffs in the game, then that's an issue, but if a buff set has almost as many controls as a control set, then it might be misplaced.
The solution to that, I think, is making the Barrier control into soft control. Instant walls are fun, since you can make corners and such, or prevent runners from getting away, but not entirely prevent enemies from attacking. I'd imagine a capture field having HP so the enemy can use its attacks to break out of it as well. (Trick, of course being then to capture non-combat buffing enemies.)
Also, I'd love to have something like Force Bolt in the set again. Because sometimes, it's just plain fun to have a "GO AWAY!" attack, and Force Bolt was the best at that.
To me, this is what barriers really need to live up to their comic book exemplars. Protect allies, manipulate the battlefield, capture or shove enemies. If it does that, it'll be fine, I imagine.
I'm with that guy ^
I would make sure that Barriers are there to PREVENT DAMAGE, period. There should not be a Buff/DeBuff element to the set.
They either...block stuff, or push stuff around. In terms of blocking, then either absorb X damage before the disburse, or they absorb X% of all damage recieved.
In fact...some of the ideas presented might be better as a Telekenisis set, rather than Barriers.
Look at this as a Defense/Control set.
so you have:
Absorbing Barrier...absorbs X% of all damage received...set it and forget it...on a timer. (maybe this is a tap effect...if following the Tap/Hold discussion)
Blocking Barrier...blocks X damage before going away...set it and forget it. (maybe this is a hold effect on the above power)
Blast - does damage, plus a stun/stagger/daze effect...lets leave actual knockdown/knockback for the TK or Energy Blast type sets
Shield - personal toggle, acts as a shield that has a high defense/block effect against attacks, but drains endurance for each attack blocked.
Blowback - tap effect...say mag 1 knockback from self. Could easily add a hold effect to increase the mag level of the knockback.
Bubble -toggle, acts as a large team shield that has a small defense/block effect against attacks
Wall - toggle...puts up a wall at a selected location, blocking everything as long as you maintain the toggle...but uses an increasing level of endurance the longer the wall remains.
Sanctuary - nothing gets in, nothing gets out. Toggle power around a single toon....similar to Wall in that it uses and increasing level of endurance the longer it is on.
Barrier - immobile pet summon...like a wall, but has hit points and is destroyable. Can place several of them. Creates barricades in targeted locations.
One thing that Some Barriers should do, is prevent/defend against certain 'Mezzing' effects. Sonic Defense, for instance, had a mez-breaking power. Force Fields had defense against KB.
On the other hand, I recall the sheer FUN of playing twin FF/Energy Blast Defenders with a friend. In that case, we were constantly abusing KB effects to sweep our partner's shields clean of nasty muggers. And the double, layered shields made us nigh invulnerable... until someone forgets to refresh the bubbles every 4 minutes and then bad things happen.
Actually, I'd like to ask that the bubbles last a bit longer... ?
Be Well!
Fireheart
10 minutes, minimum.
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I'd prefer more powerful bubbles that have to be refreshed more often, really. Other MMOs have hour-long buffs that grant you +5% whatever. That's weak and not super. City of Heroes gave you +25% Defense for four minutes and allowed you to boost that with enhancements, but you had to keep refreshing it so it didn't expire.
If the buffs last too long, you will run into the issue of people making free accounts to just stand around and throw long-duration buffs at their characters, which would make actually having a buff character along for missions redundant.
Normally I'd rather see the focus shifted away from tons of toggles that most protection sets (such as armor sets) were filled with but force fields are a sort of special case. This is because unlike with armors you never wanted to run all toggles at same time.
I like having something like dispersion bubble as a sort of soft blanket protection. However I dislike the split of insulation shield and deflection shield. It is clear both are mandatory so why have two powers you constantly need to keep up?
I'd rather see insulation shield and deflection field rolled to relatively long recharging hard defense so you use it strategically only as needed and not all the time. You certainly should not be able to keep all allies buffed.
For me force fields should work like this:
Soft fields provide CoH style defense bonus but their values are relatively low
Hard fields are constructs that have HP. Initially the field provides what in CoH terms amounts 100% resistance but as the field takes damage this value gets reduced so that damage slowly starts to bleed over. This is not a linear progression. For example a field that has lost 90% of its hp might still provide 25% resistance. Once the field loses all hp it pops.
Repel fields block movement but don't automatically block damage.
Sample powers:
-------------------
Dispersion Bubble (toggle, AoE soft field): +moderate defense to all allies within bubble vs all, +status protection
Force Shield (click, hard shield): deflection & insulation field rolled together. Can't be kept up on more than one person at a time.
Detention Field (click, hard shield): like force shield except target is also immobilized and its own attacks damage only the field
Repulsion Field (toggle, personal repulsion field): push back foes in melee
Force Ward (click, repulsion field): create a static wall of repulsive force at target location. Enemies are repelled while allies and attacks can pass through freely.
Force Dome (click, hard shield & repel): creates a static ground targeted dome that repels enemies and their attacks while allowing allies to pass.
+force blast & repulsion bomb like in CoH but perhaps more damaging to reduce dependency from non primary specification.
I'm gonna disagree with this, you most certainly should be able to. A Forcefield-like set's gimmick should be that it can do exactly that at the cost of some other power types, like healing and such. Forcefields should be THE defensive buff set.
The trick is to have enemies where that actually means something. CoH quickly turned into steamrollering, and if the enemies don't get a chance to fight back, defensive buffs lose their meaning.
the barrio concept I like but I don't see a need for so many high endurance toggles maybe one but more then that takes away from wanting to play a end heavy build
I would suggest 2 bubbles that do...
1) + speed (timers cooldown faster, end increases faster, animations move faster)
2) - speed (The opposite of above)
effectively like a time manipulation within a bubble. castable on an area. giving area of effect spheres...
this would affect both allies and enemies.. .so positioning in combat and smart casting would be required.. you couldnt just stack both in the same spot and buff/debuff based on your allegiances.
i would also suggest bubbles with hit points... castable anywhere.. if on top of a person acts like a meatshield.. if in front of someone acts like a wall thats being broken down. cant be run through until destroyed or brought to say 50% hp or less.
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I do hope the force fields come separately .. one for Tanks to shield themselves and one for "guardians" to shield others
So in the end if I want to be a "Force Field" character I can choose the two sets.. and of course if I also want to turn invisible then I can use one of your other systems for that … RIGHT?! Invisimister must LIVE
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I agree with McNum...shields of more than 10 minutes will turn some shield-casters into drive-by buffers with people asking for bubbles before they go on a mission. However 4 minutes was too short.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
huh... I thought four minutes was crazy long in CoH. Long enough for me to sometimes forget to reapply since I got so into the other stuff I was doing during all that time that I'd forget I was on a buffer. My perception may have been skewed by the amount of time I spent playing Kins needing to reapply SB, though (or, worse, ID).
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I would think the feel of Force Fields itself should be simple. One should beable to keep a personal force field around themselves (as seen by Invisible Woman and TKers) as well as bubble up others individually and turn on one huge bubble!
I agree I think the Force fields should be much more 'dynamic' but their effect could be determined by their target, for example:
Target Self - Creates a personal force field
Target Ally - Grants them a personal force field
Target Enemy - Creates a 'holding' field of some form around them
Target Ground - Creates a 'force wall'
Perhaps the creator of the FF could determine secondary effects depending upon their activated power (e.g. repulsion, resistance, debuff accuracy etc). A definition between soft and hard would definitely be worth it. A 'shield' could either remain for a period of time and maybe just reduce damage or accuracy of attacks against it or it could have its own 'hit points' and remain active till destroyed.
I do not like "Target Ground" as an available mechanic if the game uses tab targeting. It works fine for Keyboard and Mouse but sucks hard for people like me who want a game controller. Also it completely removes the perception mechanic from a tab-targeting game when you don't have to actually target friends/enemies to get your desired effect.
The rest I liked.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
Playing around the gamer-verse, I've run into two other functions of Force Fields which might be worked into the City.
One is 'Crushing' via encapsulating an enemy and then constricting the 'bubble' of force.
The other is essentially insinuating the forcefield into the enemy's armor and destroying it through 'Expansion' of the 'bubble'.
Neither of these are defensive applications, like we're used to seeing in CoH, but they could be interesting alternative powers.
Be Well!
Fireheart
those could also be used to give the FF a couple of holds.
If the idea is to make effects. Wouldn't Force Field just be Energy Dome effect that protects against your chosen protections for the power?
With how they've explained the powers (maybe it's only that way for attacks) I'm wondering if being a CoH expert on Force Fields really means much. Sounds like it would be much different than CoH.
What I would like to see is a number system that isn't like CO where it leads you to go "WTF HUH?"
I like Brand X's perspective. I would like 'force fields' (PBAoE buff) to reinforce resistance rather than defence. Using CoH terms just for a context example. Then targets could still be subject to KB and other secondary effects, but less from the kinetic. Choosing the defence types and/or attack types of a force field could produce some curious theme characters. Perhaps locked in, so you can't just switch builds to perfectly counter each enemy group as you encounter them...
[size=14]"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin[/size]
[size=14] "One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon[/size]
I wish there would be a FF aura. I hated click toon then power, then repeat. Would like to hit it once and everyone in range got it.
Smoker6- Fire/Ice blaster-Protector
Avenger of Heroes- Broadsword/inv Scrapper- Protector
That's pretty much how it worked in the final year of CoH. The force field shields, and several other buffs, became AoE powers. Mostly so they could be used in the Incarnate Trials and target the entire League in a few clicks.
I'd like CoT to start off with this, since it was a nice change of pace.
Yeah the trials were nice that's what made me bring it up
Smoker6- Fire/Ice blaster-Protector
Avenger of Heroes- Broadsword/inv Scrapper- Protector
It seems to me that there are a few basic flavors for forcefields being posted here. If I miss some, please chime in.
Hard Shell - Defense based.
Soft Shell - Resistance based.
Self-protection while still allowing attacks.
Protection Focused
Battlefield Control
I'd like to see an assortment of these in the set, but it might mean that we need more than one powerset. Even if the coding guys find a way to provide all that at once, I suspect that we will need to narrow it down.
There is also making the set distinctive. What combinations will set it apart from other sets?
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Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
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I actually like the idea of being able to make a force field of hard shell (3000 HP for instance) but it only resists against 2/3 (or 3/5) damage types. I can put up a forcefield that protects against Energy Attacks and Physical Attacks.. but is susceptible to supernatural attack.
This is to say that I want you to be sure NOT to do what Champions Online did (allowing recastable force-fields to be instant health points you can recast unlimited amounts). I want weakness to be designed into EVERY character mechanic.
If, like Champions Online, you provide a "Personal Force Field Passive" to tanks (tanks only) - I can see this as a catch-all damage - but that's really the only instance I could see myself in favor of that kind of field/shielding power.
- -
To a separate question.. what have you developers had any conversation about "barriers"? Something I set on the battle field that must be destroyed for attacks that must hit line of sight? This is something that tab targeting usually misses but if I make a wall of Ice or Earth or Plants.. how would your game handle that?
Crowd Control Enthusiast
It also depends on the type of character I am.
My Stalwart with FF Primary wont have any/many Control type powers, but my FF Controller will.
I prefer the idea JayBezz said - a Hard Shell that protects from SOME attacks but can be worn down.
For example:
Power 1 defends against attack types a,b.c.
Power 3 defends against attack types d,e.f.
Power 4 defends/resists partially attack type h.
Attack type i is completely unaffected.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Terlin, what is "Protection focused"? Is that the modifer to defence or resistance (eg. AoE/ranged/melee ; acid/fire/ice/kinetic/etc) or something else entirely like mez or speed protections?
Theme idea: Leech/Sanctuary
Forcefields that cause friendly fire (that is they protect enemies within) could be [u]stronger for having a weakness[/u], and would make great battlefield controls (sanctuary zones). Almost like a power negation zone. For me I imagine Power (or Energy, Violence, Psi or whatever) Dampener to be a cool Resistance/Protection/Battlefield Control set. Leveraging it in combat would mean using attack types that are not resisted by it. Otherwise, it's a sort of Personal Force Field (maybe with partial limitations on attack types originating from within).
Leech concepts could include: a monk with "serenity manipulation"'; A physicist with an "energy dampening device"; a Judge with "riot foam" . Nobody wants a team-mate who always causes less damage to be done (battles would always take longer) so the set should also include friend-only force fields of conventional strength.
[size=14]"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin[/size]
[size=14] "One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon[/size]
I like the idea of a Force Field that resists some forms of attacks a lot while others less so, but still needs to be the all around option that just resists all damage types equally.
Protection was a new idea based on (amongst others) Iron Man's suit of armor.
Basically the idea is small attacks bounce off you but obviously this makes you immune to all 'minion' attacks no matter how many. Even with a fully saturated Inv tankers an attack that hit did at least 1 hp damage.
Joe99 was working on this with others in the MWM forums and got it 'working'.
Whether or not Prot will work in such a manner or if it will be there at all is of course up to the Dev's :)
I could see such an idea based on a form of Ablation/Absorbtion - basically your armor is whittled away by attacks and then you take the damage. Not thematically the same but...
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
I view that as the Bubbler many of us have known, spamming protective fields around ourselves, our team, and team members. This can include a Mez-shield of sorts.
So, defense-based and protecting from most damage types.
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Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Protection schemes:
Hit or Miss bias (the familiar Defense schemes)
Damage Reduction bias (the familiar Resistance schemes)
Range Debuffing (tactical positioning system, forces enemies to come closer than normal/nominal in order for their attacks to be effective, which could deprive them of advantageous positions, most effective with a Range Penalties system in place which can mimic either the Hit or Miss bias, the Damage Reduction bias, or both, based on relative positioning of attacker(s) and target(s))
Intermittent Reflectivity (the "stop hitting yourself!" answer, most often combined with the Hit or Miss bias, where a Miss result has a chance (up to 100%, potentially) of returning the attack against the attacker)
Battlefield Obstacles ("wall" type temporary location emplacements, which can be either two-way or one-way for blocking Line of Sight)
Telekinetics (fields of instantaneous FORCE that move hostiles around, including Knockback/Knockup and Repulsion, but can also include "yanking" to pull an opponent close(r) to the caster so as to foil "runners" as well as "collapsing fields" for gathering hostiles together in clumps)
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I agree that we're throwing a lot of ideas out there but force fields have been SO versatile in the comics over the years! I don't know how many damage types we're looking at for CoT so the idea of some of them not covering all types of damage may or may not work. Personally I could see them rated as 'Kinetic, energy, mystical' and call it a day. Sometimes more KISS and less detail can be better.
However I DID have a novel thought regarding bubble duration and so forth: Passives that center on the caster are toggles just like we're used to. Active shields (those cast on specific people) would have a Shield Rating and be ablative. Say I throw a Shield on a team mate. That shield will Resist (ignore) attacks of 5 damage or less (so a minions will damage it but not much). Anything else is removed from the shield's HP. When the shield breaks, it's gone. There's no time limit involved...it's fire and forget. Drive-by casting can last all day...IF you never get into combat in which case who cares? But if you think the caster will put a 5-minute bubble on you and then you can just stroll through Hell forget it...the damage will pop it quick. Damaged shields are recharged with a re-cast.
This way if the team is strolling along, reading content and occasionally fighting the caster isn't flustered keeping everyone covered. However in the thick of things they might have to cast them MORE often. This keeps shield from being a free ride.
As for the types of shields I would do ALL Kinetic shields as Defense (because they're deflecting more than stopping with the hard shell), energy shields would be Resistance (conforming to the path of the energy or whatever) and Mystical would be some blend of the two. Note that this would make Mystical foes more of a challenge.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
I'm surprised there is not more discussion from this perspective. Not that I have read everything in the forums, but I have not seen much discussion on the damage mechanics of the game (damage types, attack/damage equations, etc.). To me, those are critical elements to understand before designing any power set, let alone a FF power set.
As was mentioned, it's nifty to discuss a power set from a different game that used (potentially) different attack and damage mechanics. That power set would not necessarily work in a game with different mechanics. So, as quoted, there are defense (accuracy-based) and protective (damage reduction-based) mechanics that would be designed IF the attack mechanics are set up to accommodate. Also, there would be considerations for damage types, I had posted the examples below in a different thread that would need to be defined:
Physical (Smashing, Lethal)
Thermal (Fire, Ice)
Toxic/Vital (unique within itself, no polarity)
Energy (Positive, Negative)
Supernatural (Magic, Mental/Psychic)
I would want to know a little about the mechanics of the game before getting too excited about the specific sets, personally...
"it's a long road to wisdom, but it's a short one to being ignored." The Lumineers
I'm still hoping they do away with typed defense, and just have resistance equal deflecting or what have you. They can also have absorb mechanics and resist + absorb or resist + absorb + defense...whatever...and leave defense to positional.
Sure, you deflected the shot...you still got hit :p
As someone (possibly *the* one) who suggested the "capture and squish" type of bubble, I think it would be great to see a couple of different types of forcefield powers. There's enough potential applications here to split into both a "Defensive Fields" set and an "Offensive Fields" set. I also recall some discussion about being able to "tweak" or slightly modify powers (but couldn't point to a specific post right now.) Combine these two things and you could get a whole bunch of really interesting effects going.
We're all pretty familiar with defensive fields -- they make the hurty things hurt less. Imagine, though, if the Titan combat system is more action oriented (Secret World as opposed to CoH). Your basic shields might be spherical, but perhaps you could use a power modification to make them PLANES instead; a planar shield might be much stronger for damage coming from that specific direction, but entirely useless for damage that's sneaking in from behind. Perhaps a toggle ability which slightly lowers defensive capability, but allows the bubbler to reflect a small percentage of the incoming damage (moving a pure Defensive Fielder into a more hybrid Off/Def area). Maybe a cloaking field which displaces/blurs/hides the person in it, making stealth easier and providing a small avoidance chance in combat (It would also be super cool if the cloaking bubble made the view blurry for the user -- changing the way the light hits you would logically also change the way you SEE that light). Imprisoning fields seem like a good fit here as well -- both the "I take no damage at all but can't move" power and the "you can't move but can't take damage" power (which, as previously mentioned, could easily be a single power with a wider range of allowed targets). Perhaps a perk/modifier could be used to allow movement while using the oh-sh*t bubble. I imagine, too, a power which simply prevents the target from moving by interposing a "frictionless field" between their feet and the ground. Finally, I would love to see an ability that lets one forcefielder affect another's field -- perhaps inverting the effect of the target's field -- blinding them if they're using a stealth field, damaging them if they're using a defensive field (shield lance!), or merging shields to allow two imprisoning-fields users to sync up and attack ONLY each other.
Some of the old standard forcefield powers seem a bit more offensive -- the KB bolt or knockdown field might not do a lot of damage, but if an enemy can't attack until he stands back up, it opens up a nice window to dump some DPS on them. Again, modifying the field from a sphere into a plane could change the effect radically-- instead of crush/KD, you might get slash/bleed effects. Defensive debuff by expanding fields inside an enemy's armor seems pretty aggressive, and could be even moreso if you're allowed to put the expansion bubble in the enemy HIMSELF.. The "grab and squeeze" bubble would be here in the Offensive group as well -- perhaps with a modifier to allow multiple-target grabbing, or a sudden-collapse effect which changes it from a DoT to a single-hit attack. I also imagine a "popcorn" attack which lets the user create many tiny fields, which expand rapidly and dissipate -- enemies caught in this area would be bounced around uncontrollably, and take damage from hitting the ground/walls/ceiling/other enemies. Offensive forcefields could have a much more dynamic, active feel than the fire-and-forget type of defensive fields.
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If you look at most superhero and fantasy concept of force or energy fields, there are two archetypal functions to them:
#1: They usually deplete from continued onslaught - sue storm and green lantern would always strain to maintain their shields under pressure. It makes for good suspense.
#2: You can not only shoot blasts, but most force field characters like to make shapes, such as the wall idea mentioned above, or an animated weapon like a big boxing glove, or a prison around an enemy.
As a visual theme, they usually glow or have one color. I would ditch the whole 'bubbles' on a timer thing and give the shields something like focus or willpower points that are depleted in a minor way when the field is hit, and in a major way when the field maker experiences physical or mental attack directly.
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I have a few loose ideas and thoughts...
A way to make the protective barriers more active might be to give them a strong effect for a few seconds, which then gradually depletes. That way you'd have to time them more carefully but they would still be effective long enough that even those with no twitch skills or a poor connection/ old computer can use them.
There was a mechanic in Path of Exile I liked. Protective gear for casters provides no armor whatsoever in this game. Instead it grants a energy shield which acts as a second health bar, that refills very fast but only when your character was not hit for a few seconds. It might not be very useful for a tank, who has to stay in the middle of the fray all the time but Gladiators and Gunners could profit from such a thing.
And finally I thought a placeable force field that acts similar to the repulsion field or perhaps as a mine that knocks enemys back when it detonates could be an alternative to the force wall. It would restrict enemy movement, offer some crowd control and I guess it would also be a little easier to program.
One my mains was ff but i do think if you have power over self or your self should be taxiing so be balanced
Tiny bot of def
I would definitely at least like to see force fields be made available to melee sets, I could imagine quite a few melee concepts who use it for their defensive measure.
@Lutan i really like that idea having played PoE, would make yet another style of tanking or defense that further differentiates playstyles. Invulnerability being focused on pumping defense, super reflexes on avoidance, regeneration on healing more damage than taken, and force fields being focused on the second energy health bar. With willpower being a combination of the previous. That would be how i would like to see it done anyway.
I thought of a number of offensive force field abilities. By making marble or even smaller size bubbles and send them flying at top speed... a true magic bullet. One can wonder how much control over such a force field the user has, but still an invisible bullet that leaves no traces and uses no weight or limit just what the field maker can produce. Another is the bubble over the head cutting of air supply trick, putting someone in a bubble and sending them up in the air and slamming down to the ground again. Face it the Invisible Woman the most powerful of the four just she chooses to use her powers defensively.
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To try to get away from the city of hero type of "Force Fields". and to get to a more character type of thought. Where did the force field come from. The invisible woman from Fantastic four bent light to different shapes. where any TKer would use that power to control the movement of something and to use that as a bubble would be much like trying to shoot at Magneto.
If your talking about Force Fields then i think mostly of the invisible woman. where its a "wall" that with great effort doesn't allow things threw. So now we get to how is that possible.
Yes your right, Hard and soft FFs. As many people have said
Hard is used to stop damage outright. this is very op if not balanced. So as what i see in the FF used by the invisible woman she Maintains them and uses up her energy to keep the damage coming thru. or person.
Now taking that into games terms would mean 1 of a couple things:
1. you toggle the power on and the amount of energy used = directly to the damage the FF takes.
- this would turn it into a game of balance the energy. or with other game another person on the team to supply energy, then making it a game like DCUO.
- also you would have to take into count burst damage, a boss puts done a big hit yes you didn't let the tank die but now you don't have energy for your other buffs or debuffs
- this power wouldn't be a gear based power as the amount of e=d used would be set at the powers level or by the dev.
2. you toggle the power on and it can only take a certain amount of damage then it breaks and you have to reapply
- this would be a gear based power where in your FF can take more damage before broken
- also burst damage is a affect. but this type would be used as a buffer so the healing needed isn't as much. IE WoWs healers use a small shield and then put a Hot on.
3. or you maintain the power by holding the button down.
- this can one or both of the powers types above.
-energy used=ff damage taken
- certain amount.
-this would be the most like the Invisible woman's type of power. she used this and stood there trying as hard as she could to toughen the shield up.
- i can see this used as a tank help type of power.
- in this case the power used would be a certain amount and wouldn't change.
- this still would use up allot of power to make it a oh shit only power.
-can be change and upgraded by gear and what not.
4. as a offensive power. A harden light dart or hammer you cant see. Or can see ( The Green Lantern)
the first two i can see being used in every fight and the mainstay of the toon. but could lead to balancing issues and pvp problems
Soft as said by many is a FF that doesn't take all the damage but takes it down a notch. this is easier to balance and cheaper in most cases to use.
now taking that into game terms would mean 1 if not a couple things.
1. you toggle the power on.
-this type of shield could be stacked. either for added resistant for more energy.
- this can be changed to be either dissipate damage or absorb damage.
- this can still be used as a drain energy power where more damage mid. more energy used.
2. offensively this can be used in many ways. as a buff or debuff
- reflect, since the power is not hard it can absorb a certain amount and push it back
-this power in it self is used by many hero and villains and can be a power set in it self.
- missile control. this means when the shield is up the speed of missile going out goes up but coming in they slow down. ( great defence against reflect)
-slow this means what it say. all missile damage is reduced by the speed it comes in. IE Neo, slow the bullets to a halt and could grab them out of the air.
-fast any missile going out can speed up and make damage down by ranger toons even more. This can be a balance issue if not done right.
-this doesn't have to be only missiles how fast can you punch someone under 5 feet of water.
- light control. i have seen in at least 1 comic where Invisible women blinds whole groups of people by changing the way light reflects off there eyes.
-yes this can be a start to a very long list of "controler" type of powers.
Now that is just the hard light versions of powers you can all of this with TK and such powers like Magneto's(and more), but that might just well come down do character backstory or development choices at start. Take Marvel Girl (jean grey) I would say if she want to stop a bullet or a lot of bullets she would hav eto notice each one and "grab them" where Magneto would by a thought would just start to reflect anything metal coming at him.
now with all that was said here i must say yes it get away at time from being a def power all by it self. but if you take into count where the power comes from the ideas of what can be done with it change. That is all up to devs deciding how the combat works and how the power choices are done. with this idea you can have a Defender with force fields as a buff and his offensive power set be FF too.
I type before i think