Announcements

Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2

Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.

It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.

To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.

Flexform - A New Way to Build Powersets

8 posts / 0 new
Last post
Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
Flexform - A New Way to Build Powersets

Flexform Builds
The Best of all Worlds

Warning: Long Post. Sorry but it’s a complex idea.

The dream of every good game designer is to create the best game possible within whatever restrictions they are given such as time and money. The dream of every player is to have as much fun as possible. One thing that MMO creators and players have been dreaming about for years is a freeform build style for character creation. Many have tried but none have succeeded. Any systems that DID get close to freeform wound up being not very good (like CO) for a number of reasons.

One of the biggest drawbacks to freeform builds is balance. It’s virtually impossible to properly balance the various Powers and effects to cut down on the one ‘perfect’ build that does it all. We’ve discussed freeform builds here and the general consensus is that it can’t be balanced properly and if we can’t do it right then we should not do it. But what if we could split the difference and give the players more choices for their builds while still maintaining enough structure to be able to prevent things from running amok? That’s what I call Flexform Builds.

What I’m thinking of is what I call Power Templates. A Power Template is a basic structure for a Power that can then be modified as the player sees fit within certain restrictions set up by the Template. The whole thing sounds more complex than it is so I’ll just use an example:

Energy Blast: Basic, fundamental Power. The basic Energy Blast would do X damage with Y Range and Z Recharge. Think of it as a typical T1 Blast from CoH. Now several things about the Blast are predefined like X, Y and Z above. However several other things are fluid and can be chosen by the player. For example there is no predetermined Power Effect for the Power. It does Damage as opposed to Cold damage, Fire damage, Energy damage or whatever. This Effect is chosen by the player at the time the Power is selected.
The Secondary Effect is also not predetermined. Out of the box the Blast would do no KB, no Slow, no Dot or anything other than its base Damage. The Secondary Effect would also be chosen by the player at the time the Power was chosen.

Note that the amount of Secondary Effect will be different for each AT. If a Blaster put an Immobilize effect on a ST Blast then it would reduce the Damage of that Power by 25%. A Hold on the same Power would reduce the Damage by 50%. This would bring the Powers in line with similar Powers from other ATs. So a Blast Power with an Immob Secondary Effect might do 10 Damage and last for 6 seconds where a Control Power with a Damage Secondary Effect might do 5 Damage and last 12 seconds. Also, slotting for various effects might result in different totals for different ATs. So a Blaster slotting up the Immob effect of his Blast might be limited to a single Immob slot while a Controller might have no limits for the same thing.

In this way the exact collection of Powers is up to the players but there would be restrictions for the sake of balance. No matter what, a Blaster would never be able to have as much Control as a Controller and a Controller would never be able to do as much damage as a Blaster. I have included a sample below for illustration (please note that the actual values are pulled from thin air and subject to change) :

Ice Blast (Blaster Set)
T1: Ice Blast – 100’ range, 2 sec Recharge, 4 End, 20 Damage
T2: Ice Bolt – 100‘ range, 4 sec Recharge, 8 End, 40 Damage
T3: Ice Storm – 60’ Range, 8 sec Recharge, 12 End, 15 Damage (45 degree cone)
And so on and so forth.

A player selecting this Set has their choice of these Powers as they level up just like normal. However when each Power is chosen the player will be able to assign each Power a Secondary Effect. The difference between this Set and, say, Fire is that IF the player chooses the Slow Effect for any of these Powers then it will last longer than a Slow Effect on a Fire Blast or an Electrical Blast.
Each Set would have a set of Effects that are not baked in but that do have synergy if selected. So the Ice Blast has no Slow effects attached to it but if Slow is the Chosen Effect then it might last 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds for s T1 Fire Blast with Slow attached to it. This allows each Set to have its own flavor but the players are not required to use a Secondary Effect if they don’t want to.
The following Sets would have the following Effects to synergize with:

Fire – DoT
Ice – Slow
Electricity – End Drain
Energy – KB
Darkness – Fear

The list of possible Secondary Effects would include:
Damage
DoT
Immobilize
Hold
Fear
End Drain
KB
KD

And so on. So a player can choose a Fire Set and go total damage, taking DoT or Damage as the Secondary Effect on all of his Powers if he wants. Or if he wants to play safer he could take a Fire Set and take a bunch of Slows, Holds, Immobilizes or whatever. The explanation of the effect is not important (smoke can blind a target as easily as snow can after all) nor is the special effect.

I wanted to try this idea the minute I read about the Effect Decoupling idea the Devs announced during the Kickstarter. If I have a Fire Blast that burns that sounds like DoT to me. But if I want an Ice Blast that simulates frostbite then that’s a burn too right? So why can’t I take a Fire Power, color the effects white and call it an Ice Power? As long as the damage is the same and the target’s defenses still react the same then why not?

The various Power Sets can still be balanced by the Powers available. Fire might get more AoE than Ice for instance. But a player who wants to run an Ice concept character who does lots of AoE can do so by choosing a Fire set, coloring the FX blue/white, adding Slows and other controls instead of DoT and there it is…a customized Ice Powerset.

The same concept would work for Control Sets as well. The difference being that where a Blast Set is more concerned with damage, a Control Set is more concerned with control. So a Control Set might look like the following:

Ice Control
T1: Icy Grasp – ST Immobilize, Mag 1 (enough for Minions), 100’ range, 2 End, 2 second Recharge.
T2: Ice Prison – ST Hold, Mag 1 (again, enough for Minions), 100’ range, 4 End, 4 second Recharge.

The biggest difference between a Blast Set and a Control Set is the basic goal of the Set. Blast Sets are supposed to do damage, Control Sets control the battlefield. Now a Blast Set can have controls for its Secondary Effects the same as a Control Set can have Damage for its Secondary Effects. Either of these Powers could have DoT or straight Damage as its Secondary Effect. However, they can also take MORE Control if the player chooses just like the Blast Set can take more Damage. So the Icy Grasp above could have Immobilize for a Secondary Effect raising the Mag to 2 which would work on Lts on a single application, however then it will do NO Damage. The player can decide, based on their own playstyle, how they want the various Powers to work. An ‘offensive Controller’ might take Damage for every Power which means they will have less Control during battle but do more Damage. Another player, knowing that they team all the time and have friends who like running damage-dealers, is less worried about defeating enemies solo so they add extra Control to almost everything.

Needless to say, this would require a LOT of balancing to make it work. However each Power Set could have its own unique style and flavor to keep them from becoming too homogenized. While not completely Freeform, this idea gives players so many choices (within reason) that there will be thousands of different combination to choose from.

Note that I have not explored Debuff Sets yet but I believe that they could benefit from such a system. I have also not contemplated if or how this might impact Defensive Sets. However Rome was not built in a day…

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Twisted Toon
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 3 months ago
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 13:25
The idea isn't too bad,

The idea isn't too bad, except that I would also decouple the damage type from the power-set as well. Make the whole thing into a build-your-own-theme power-set. Maybe have a couple of blaster set templates, for AoE or Single Target sets, then customize the damage type, color, animations, and secondary effects. Of course, that's more work for the design team. But, it would make balancing the sets easier because there would be fewer actual sets to balance. Most of it would be cosmetic.

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Interesting. Except for

Interesting. Except for manipulating Secondary Effects, I believe this is mostly what the folks at MWM were planning, ie. select Energy Type and select Animation.

One weakness I see in this, is it requires that the Player have a goodly bit of knowledge, before embarking on power-creation. It strikes me that this would be a Great Idea as an Expansion that can be unlocked by experienced players.

Be Well!
Fireheart

summer-heat
summer-heat's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/30/2013 - 12:48
As with CO, perhaps the best

As with CO, perhaps the best solution for the learning curve to alleviate the amount of prior-creation knowledge would be to have presets, like with Fire+DoT, Ice+slow, Elec+drain, etc.

I like that it feels similar to the flex-form they're considering/planning, because it puts more of the "Tier 1 does x Tier 2 does b" as the overall template that is locked down, but I do like that not every set really fit this method in CoH. Sure, in CoH Fire Blast and Energy Blast were very similar in structure (almost duplicated) but then Fire Control and Illusion Control were completely different and even other controls were more divergent than others.

Has there been much discussion or consideration with splitting the tiers? most blaster sets had a strong stable of the same powers recolored, most control sets the same... Could this flex form be structured for the first half of powers to provide the stable of primary attacks, and then the second half or last few tiers go to a completely unique tree of abilities? Perhaps this is similar to how the L40+ was handled, but I always felt it could have taken place earlier in the powersets and given the second "upper level unlocks" more flavor and strengths to be unique.

[i]“The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” -Douglas Adams[/i]

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Under the hood, way before a

Under the hood, way before a set becomes available to players, these building blocks for powers is what we intend to use in power creation. Giving this capability to the player base as a whole may be difficult. For one, it would actually make set creation more lengthy as each possible combination must thouroughly be tested at all levels of gameplay. We would also need to provide a "on the rails" pre-made power for players who just want to jump in and play, the deeper character creation becomes, the more time it takes to select powers while advancing in the game, may create a barreir of entry for newer players. This means we would have added work of creating powers "as their inteded to be used" and then also go through art, ui, etc... for players who can go off the rails. We've had quite lengthy disucussions the possibility in the past, these hurdles and others exist to implement such power customization. Some may be possible to overcome, but the likelihood is slim, while the broader scope of such a system affects many other aspects of the game design which may make it unfeasible.

One thing to note is that core power attributes all have a call of reference for each interaction. The more changes are applied to each core attribute for each power increases the workload of the power frame work. Which is in part for how the boost system is intended to work; changes to values and possible alterations of effects, add additional effects to powers. Such a change at the core level of power design eliminates portions of the purpose of the boost system. There are many reasons why it is more favorable to provide the possibility of this functionality through the boost system, part of which is a more controllable environment to what alterations may be applicable.

In other words, we need to provide a range of expected behavior for power effects and interactions. This makes knowing what to expect for us as developers easier, which by and large, is incredibly difficult as we as players always find ways to break systems as it is. The more tools that are made availble, the more ways things will get broken - or unintended behaviors will occur. Players should also be able to know what to expect within reason for how powers work - and even look to a degree. If a "fire blast: is colored any color, but is still distinctly "fire blast" a player also should know what to expect to happen when they see the "fire blast" being used, particularly when working with or against other players.

[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
I have been thinking of a

I have been thinking of a very similar build system @Comicsluvr

I think there should be some major restrictions on how powers are given to each build. For instance if you're in Melee DPS role you may want to focus more on all single target playstyle, smaller AoE damage playstyle or a mixture of both.

IF the devs define the builds access to powers by role, there is alot more freedom in my opinion than if they do it by framework.

Ranged DPS gets 4 dev defined tracks.

One track focuses on Single target damage and alot of maneuverability powers
One track focuses on staying at long range and doing AoE damage
One track focuses on sniper range attacks with more buffs to lose targetability.. etc (you get the idea).

The track defines the range, base damage/heal/mez numbers, and specifically the utility functions of each build (cooldowns, chain/aoe/line of sight, movement powers, stealth powers, taunts.. etc)

The player gets to choose the damage type (two.. maybe three per character) that goes into the damage of that track.
The player gets to choose SOME of the secondary effects of the powers. (The track may disallow some interactions per power slot)

- -

I do not like the idea that a fire blast must represent fire. Psychic fire exists. But I do respect that there needs to be expected bahavior. I think the FX team could work on indicators built into the visuals of the power type (aka all melee powers come with "swing lines", all cone powers have a certain shape, all 50m blasts have 3 trajectory line that looks thick, all 100ft attacks have one trajectory line that is thin, every maintained AoE power has a blinking effect showing the affected area... I think you get the point.

I REALLY liked that in your "burning" display on the kickstarter they listed fire AND acid amongst others. "Burning" could just as well be translated into "Ranged DoT track" where many of the attacks have residual damage over time built into them and can set patches at the feet of enemies.

This way the devs can focus on creating new FX/Animations without fear that they need also make a new "framework". And other devs can focus on creating a new "framework" without needing to worry about building the FX. The model is much more expandable when FX are relatively divorced from mechanics.

I'd be EXTREMELY willing to simply buy an FX set with real money.. if you dont have a "radiowave" looking fx I'll use something else in the interim until it's available in the cash shoppe. But I don't want to need to change my build just becuse my FX changed. If you come out with a "temple touching" animation set I'd gladly pay you $ to buy it from the cash shop. This shouldn't mean I have to shoot psychic damage from my temples. And while I'm not willing to pay for builds unless they're extremely special (Stretching, Shapeshifting, Duplication, Power-Stealing, etc) being able to create new playstyle mechanics for your players as your game grows is a GREAT expansion model that will continue to bring in players.

This way my build can still use electric damage. Be limited by dev discretion of how crowd control DoT caster works. And I can shoot Psychic Squirrels for all I care.. as the FX and Animations are my choice (But I want radiowaves).

- -

The character being effected however, should have some default tells. If it's a fire damage then I don't mind seeing flames come off of the enemy.. even if I shoot the fire from my temple touching animation set and the FX look like quills being shot. For instance all confuses can have question marks or rings around the enemies head so you know what's happening to you (outside of the UI status notifications), All burned characters (regardless of the color of the flames cast) can erupt in the default "yellow-orange" flame after being hit with a fire damage attack (whether the FX be a lazer, an arrow, a swarm of flies or squirrels)

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 3 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Just to be clear, i only gave

Just to be clear, i only gave a minimal, very specific example of customization. Thus far, it hasn't been stated that every possible visual effect will be assigned to any power type. So it may not be possible to assign Ice visuals to a burning set, but it may be possible to have a fingers to temple, purple flames from your forehead (pure example not a promise), or any other visual which is associated with a burning effect. Some visual effects may work for a wide array of different power types, while others are more specific. To certain, there will be plenty of options to make distinctive characters.

We have talked about providing animation suites and visual effect suites for purchase and / or through releases. I'm not on the business end to know what and how such things will be given out or sent to the cash shop though.

[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]

Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
Understood. Without too many

Understood. Without too many guidelines anything I throw out is working off of pie in the sky stuff. I was postulating in a perfect world.

I can also see that there would need to be some markers or 'tells' indicating what type of damage a power is doing even if there is an animation change. I was not considering PvP implications in any way and the computer doesn't care what your powers look like in PvE.

I think I may have been reaching too high but I still like the basic idea. The Devs can establish some controls on the sets by limiting what can be slotted and what can't as well as what powers are available to what sets. I fall back on Fire as 'THE' AoE Blaster set but such does not have to be the case. I was not also all-inclusive in my suggestions and did not have anything along the lines of debuffs or buffs.

As a side note: Traditionally Defenders were the 'buff/debuff' AT but do they HAVE to remain that way? Isn't a good debuff another form of Control? I don't want the sets homogenized but perhaps if we had 1-2 powers available outside the box just like Blaster Secondaries had Melee Powers? Blasters also had some fairly lightweight Controls in some sets as well. I see no reason why a Defender set can't have 1-2 debuffs as Controls the same as a Controller might have a buff or two.

Back on-topic. My main goal was to provide players with more options which can lead to more alts and repeatability. I also remembered all those times where I WISHED I could take just ONE power from a set and add it to a different set. Of course we can't do that but if you can get something different to vary your playstyle then I'm all good with that. I'd ike to see the comparisons between what I termed an 'Offensive Controller' and a team-centric Controller.

I'll understand if this is deemed too radical or too uncontrollable to work.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...