Hi,
I have only recently become of this game development and have spent the past few days going through the forums finding the answers to the usual plethora of questions; I will not bore people with gaming history, etc.
However, there is one matter I would seek clarification on, namely when reference is made to the beta in the fall of 2018, is this referring to a closed beta for Kick-Start supporters, some other form of restricted or closed beta or, an open beta?
I have looked but cannot find the answer, sorry.
Many thanks regardless.
As I have not yet gotten access to the Closed Beta Access waves mentioned in the [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans]Kickstarter[/url] "Construction Crew" tier, my assumption is that we'll be closed first, then expand from there as they need more testers.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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If the Beta is the same as Issue #0, it is an open beta to everyone that donates enough to get access. They have said KS backers and 2nd Chance backers should get access near simultaneously, with the KS backers getting access maybe a week or two before 2nd Chance backers.
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Thank you for the reply and, I can see the reasoning though a closed beta is not what is officially posted or commented upon in Youtube, videos, etc. Hence my confusion.
My understanding has been that Issue 0 will be what MWM will provide to show that they have been developing a game for the past few years. They don't want to take more money from people on faith alone. We will have access to the avatar builder and one(?) zone. We may have access to travel powers, we may not. There won't be enough there to even jokingly call it a beta.
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Dark Cleric and Darth Fez, again thank you for the replies (Cleric you responded whilst I was typing my previous acknowledgement).
However, to this newbie, it seems that I have had 3 genuine replies with 3 differing answers and, I thought the 2nd chance scheme was only being discussed at this stage?
Grateful but still confused! lol
2nd chance is definitely coming, and it will be coming soon on the heels (or simultaneously) with Issue 0. Issue 0 will be the Character Generator, which a few non-devs have already had a sneak peek at, and that is expected "soon"... supposedly before the end of the year. Some are hoping for 11/30, to coincide with the anniversary of CoH's closure.
Backers will have access to Issue 0, and presumably beyond. Details of what else will be added to that, when those parts will be added, and how consistent backer access will be after Issue 0 is released, are all questions whose answers are not entirely set in stone.
But all the game systems have been in development simultaneously. The Character Generator is coming first, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing they've done. They've got tons of finished lore, lots of work on powers and animations and so on, because different devs have been working on different things independently. The next year (or more) will be devoted to integrating much of the stuff that they've already done, so new elements will be added gradually. The timetable for all of that will depend on "how it goes" with the integration.
Welcome to the forums! And just out of curiosity; how did you find out about City of Titans?
I've got a question that I asked somewhere else but no replies so I'll add it here cause it is related. KS had the perk Dynamic Duo to where I will be able to give a second copy of the game to a friend. Will I be able to do this so that they can get in on Issue 0?
-AlienMafia (Justice Server)
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As Geveo wrote, Issue 0 is being prepared for the Second Chance. Since MWM doesn't want to have the Second Chance until they've got something to show, you can consider I0 a pre-requisite for the second round of funding.
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Until you asked the question, the Dev, team may not have thought of that as a legitimate request.
It can be argued that we have paid for access on behalf of someone else (in my case, my son); however, technically that second person did not themselves "back" the game, they may be considered a "child" account to our "parent" account.
I can only imagine the back room discussion over this.
I'm also a Dynamic Duo, and I saw your question in the other thread, AlienMafia, but I don't think it's one that we've gotten a clear answer to.
Eventually, we'll be able to email activation codes, but that may not be there at Issue 0 launch.
Maybe Dr. T or one of the other Devs can give a more helpful answer, but then again, maybe not. Depending on how things are going with setup and the patcher system, they may not yet have made any final decisions about exactly what will be functional in terms of account access at the time of Issue 0.
I have confirmation that Issue 0 is for those who contribute during Second Chance and the original Kickstarter backers. So, more of a "paid beta" except, of course, that it isn't a beta.
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Okay, let's let the Dev;s speak to this shall we?
https://cityoftitans.com/comment/158961#comment-158961
https://cityoftitans.com/comment/158982#comment-158982
https://cityoftitans.com/comment/159013#comment-159013
StellarAgent for MVP hunting all those down.
The thing is, I have a photographic memory. I remember everything that I have read in these forums. I may not remember where and when, but I do remember reading it and the information that it contained. I can mentally collate it (unconsciously) and can create in my mind the entirety of a subject.
In the case of Issue #0 and Beta, they are one and the same. There will be limited access (KS backers first, followed by others as the NEED for more comes up). It will grow in complexity as modules are added. As complexity grows, so will the need for more testers and focused test groups.
By the time all modules are integrated and tested to the satisfaction for MWM, they will announce the release of Issue #1. The Golden Release. The Live Game. Subscriptions commence (or FTP if you so choose) and so does the mayhem on the streets of Titan City.
Incorrect. Based on what MWM has stated Issue 0 will be very far from a complete game. Issue 0 will most certainly not be a beta.
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Issue 0 will be the Beta of the Avatar Creator module portion of the game.
The game as a whole would still be technically in prototype or what passes for “early alpha” . Which those modules you won’t see until they are in a stable alpha-state.
Since we will be adding modules (or pieces of the game) over time we will be in this weird state where certain modules may reach a “beta state” (that is all large bugs are found and squashed, small bugs mumberical tweaks, and final optimizations are ready to be added), while others are in alpha state.
Eventually all modules will hit their beta state and we will be in true beta. But since some modules will have been in their beta form for a while by then, we will have to evaluate how many smaller bugs exist, how well optimizationnis working, and numerical adjustments are needed to figure how long we will need to remain in Beta.
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
This is false. They have never mentioned a limit to the number of people that can donate during the 2nd Chance and get access to Issue #0. The only limitation is the level of donation needed to get access.
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Read my statement again. I never said that they will limit the number of people that can donate! I said that there will be limit to the number of people who get into beta! As in all betas, there is an [b]INITIAL[/b] limit to the number of testers AS A CONTROL(ED) ENVIRONMENT!
ANYONE who donates can get into Issue #0, therefore there is no limit to the number of people who can get into the beta.
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Have you never been in a beta before? There is always a limit to the number of people who are initially let in. It grows over time, but there IS ALWAYS A LIMIT.
Tannim confirmed Issue #0 = beta above. They have stated there is no limit to how many people can donate. They have stated that anyone who donates enough gets access to Issue #0. So, where are you seeing the limit? Because I'm not seeing one.
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sigh
You can sigh all you want but according to what we have been told so far, you are wrong that there is a limit to the number of people they will let in Issue #0 which is the beta, confirmed by Tannim.
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DC, have you ever been in an MMO Beta before?
No, I haven't. Not sure why that would matter in this discussion since CoT isn't any other game. Are you telling me that CoT is going to say "We know all of you have donated and we said you could get into Issue #0 but...fooled you. We're only letting the first x number of people in."?
I couldn't care less what other games did in their beta. We've already been told how CoT is going to do this initial beta, which is what we are talking about. Alpha is a different matter as that, to my knowledge, has not been promised to everyone in Issue #0.
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I'm assuming the limit he is talking about might be the ability of the early stage servers computing load. As in, every one who donates can get in but only 100 of the backers can be on at one time because of server load so we might see a queue. Only time will tell
-AlienMafia (Justice Server)
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I seriously doubt that would be an issue for an mmo...even in beta. The entire game is built around the concept of thousands of players being on at once.
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I would presume that there will be equivalent verbiage in the Second Chance Funding description of the appropriate tier. Please note that nowhere does it say that I get complete access to the entirety of the closed beta, only to "one of the closed beta access waves". So as long as I get access to the closed beta for a measurable period of time before it becomes "open beta", MWM has fulfilled this portion of its promise to me.
As for what other games have done, I only know what I have seen in Star Wars: The Old Republic and in Neverwinter. They had several periods of time with increasing numbers of players testing things out, and then they opened things up, in the case of SW:TOR to those who purchased the game, and for Neverwinter, to everyone who downloaded and signed up.
Neither of those games did anything that would absolutely contradict what MWM promised for the Construction Crew or what has been said on these forums. Cycling batches of donors permits MWM to fulfill their promise to the donors while still not having more testers than they need at any given time.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Thanks for this info Tannim.
When you say MWM will be adding pieces of the game over time, does that mean that anyone with access to Issue 0 will get access to all those pieces over time, such that by the time Issue 1 goes live those players will have been able to experience most of the systems of the game (e.g. combat, missions, etc) or will those pieces be added to the game in a cordoned-off test state and not actually released to the general player base until Issue 1? In other words, will people playing Issue 0 a week before Issue 1 goes live be running around fighting beta mobs and doing beta missions with beta powers and talking to beta NPCs, or will the experience for most players a week before Issue 1 be just a character creator zone with chat and maybe customisation of power appearances? I've seen folks assuming one or the other of these scenarios and thought it might be a good thing to clear up so expectations are set accurately.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Once we patch a module to Issue 0 it becomes Issue 01 etc until we are ready for launch with Issue 1. Anyone who has access to Issue 0 will continue to receive those patches. I’m not certain as to the length of access - as in if subscription time given at the appropriate tier that grants the game produces 3 months of sub time if that time is applicable or not (and not my call to make either).
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[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Thanks, but just to be clear, are you saying that everyone with access to Issue 0, 01, etc will incrementally get access to all the game systems when they are ready for beta (e.g. combat, missions, etc.) or will there be a separate development stream for beta testing those things before Issue 1 that only certain folks will have access to? If everyone with Issue 0 is going to get access to all systems before Issue 1, that sounds like Early Access which I thought MWM said they didn't want to do.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Thank you. :)
The short answer to your question is as a result of this Youtube video 'randomly' appearing choice, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omUGpHLKRnU
If, it is of interest I have been keeping my eyes open for a replacement super-hero game for many years now; I enjoy the ability to create differing builds and approaches to a game's challenges.
Whilst aware of some of the other games in development, it was only recently that I became aware of CoT.
Edit: For clarity.
Having now gone through all the replies, thank you to all who attempted to answer my question.
It now seems to me that the referred to beta in 'Fall 2018' will in fact be a closed beta for a limited number of Kickstarter backers that will probably increase as development/progress continues.
The '2nd Chance' scheme will add to this pool of potential testing players.
Finally, that there is no intentional implication that at this moment of time participation in either of these kickstarter schemes would normally entitle a person to participation in the forthcoming 'Fall 2018' beta.
Unless anyone has anything constructive to add to this, then I will consider my question answered; thank you once more.
Edit: typo correction
That's the usual assumption for normal companies but MWM is far from normal with no paid staff and no regular income with only the KS money so safe to say to assume that servers might not be up to par initially until after second chance
-AlienMafia (Justice Server)
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It's a bit surprising that their isn't a release date yet for the Issue #0 beta. They should be hyping it like crazy on social media for a bigger 2nd Chance donation funding run.
Right now the Issue 0 of the Avatar Creator is only for Kickstarter Backers. Shortly thereafter we will have a Second Chance funding set up. Once we know we can move forward with that properly, then we will begin a PR campaign to advertise.
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everyone gets in, but they dont say "at the same time". they might very well(and I fully understand why) only invite a few the first week, then a few more etc. They are creating(probably right now) their server infrastructure that will support the actual published game. I wouldnt blame them a bit for taking steps to make sure it fully works like they want.
When you say "gets in", what does that mean? We'll only have access to the chargen for a limited time? Being this close to its release and them asking for more money, why wouldn't they state that we will only have limited access to the chargen. That changes things, at least for me, if that's how its going to be. I don't say that coming from the standpoint that "they should be able to host everyone all the time because x, y, x", it's coming from wanting realistic expectations this close to the big FALL 2018 release and not having them. As of right now, my expectation is donate and get a code to get the chargen the day it is opened up to 2nd Chance people. If I donate and get a code that will only work for a week, 6 months from now, and that expectation was never set, that's where outrage comes in. Realistic expectations need to be set, and they haven't been, and we are already halfway through Fall.
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say(just for argument) they open the server this week and invite 12.5 beta testers. Next week they invite 12.5 more...25 people on the server. they then invite 25 more the following week, after watching their server metrics and behavior. they keep this up and everyone will be on during beta. They wont take a brand new infrastructure and just dump everyone on at once.this is common sense.
I don't think you get where I am coming from. I have 0 problem with this. I'm not saying they should be able to handle x amount of people at once. I'm saying we are pretty close to release and the expectation has not been set. If every KS backer is planning on hopping on day 1 of Issue #0 release (and there has been 0 communication from CoT that they *shouldn't* have that expectation), then there is going to be an uproar if they aren't able to login and have to wait when they were never told to not expect to be able to login right away. I've never been upset at [b]where[/b] they are in the process, I get the difficulties of making an MMO. I've only ever been critical of the [b]expectation[/b] set by the devs, or the lack thereof. We are supposedly VERY close to Issue #0 release and almost no expectations have been set...the proof is this conversation we are having. It literally would not bother me at all if the game was delayed or release pushed back if they let us know ahead of time and we can set realistic expectations. It makes no sense to me that they can set this release date of Fall 2018 YEARS in advance, yet halfway through Fall 2018 they still don't have a set date. I mean, it's 100% okay and reasonable that there are difficulties getting to that release date, there are always challenges and hurdles. But if these challenges are difficult to the point where they still can't set an official release date...should they still be setting the expectation to Fall 2018?
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You know, I have gone back and reread my posts to make sure that I didn't make any errors in grammar or even made implications that could be misconstrued. So let me try again.
Beta is a complex process. The first thing that is usually tested is the email system ????, I know, right. But invites are sent out and NDAs are signed and the silence ensues. No One knows Who or How Many are invited.
Next usually is the account creation and patcher.
Then server loads. Can it handle 10 simultaneous log ins, 50, 100, 200? This often occurs at the same time as the patcher system but not always, depends on the program used and level of internal integration. They sometimes call it stress testing and everytime they add on a new physical server, it happens all over again.
Next comes focused testing.
Depending on server capacities (and remember, this is hardware built on a shoestring budget), there will be initial limits to the number of people invited. But we will be invited! Not all at once, but it will happen.
The second chance crowd funding will probably be their avenue for sourcing the new hardware that they will need but also for the full time staff that will be needed for the Beta Testing process.
Expect server wipes, reboots, resets, multiple game crashes, all sorts of fun stuff. There will be days when the servers probably won't be available (for a multitude of reasons). There will days when costume colors don't work but power color do. Beta Testing is not game play. It is TESTING. heh, It is also very TRYING.
You will be expected to fill out forms and reports. Screenshots and video clips. And all of this is done under the Cone of Silence. If you break that cone, you will probably get dropped from beta.
Let the fun ensue.
And that's closed beta and we will be getting in at alpha
-AlienMafia (Justice Server)
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Hopefully the devs already have the actual game servers running and set up. Hopefully they are setting up the systems needed to connect us to the content. If they are to meet their fall 2018 date, they are most likely setting these things up. It sounds like the content is solid (character creator) and they are just lacking the authentication setup etc. Hopefully we will see some more information forthcoming, we are getting close to crunch time.
Hopefully.
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Disclaimer: The following is an educated opinion.
This expectation has been set. They are not near "release" nor anywhere near it, as would be typically defined by most of the game dev community as "release". At this point in time they a ready to start testing a couple things primarily the login/update server and the character creator. Some people may have received discrete (I mean this in both meanings of the word) invites and those individuals are under an NDA. Although, I don't think that is the case. That's standard practice for any game development. The CC will be pretty bare bones as they are still integrating parts of the CC right now. The UI is incomplete and they only have a few costume pieces to work with and a handful of colors. A lot of what is going to be tested is the scaling on the character model to see how players can break the character model. This is very likely to be one of the MOST complex character designers ever built with levels of customization previously only seen Maya(hyperbole, Yes!). This is not new information it is spread out over the entire forum. Unlike in the past, the devs are on a pretty similar wavelength at this point as far as what the first tests are going to be that include individuals outside MWM.
If you are a backer you'll find out you've been invited to the beta when you get an e-mail requesting information from you about your system and about your internet and schedule and experience. If you are selected then you'll get an NDA, and then you'll get a download link. When you log in that'll be your day 1, it probably will not be publicly announced and you probably wont be first. There isn't going to be a bunch of people clamoring about why they didn't get into the beta, because no one will know the beta is ongoing until they get that invite, and the NDA will prevent them from talking about it. This is coming from my experience beta testing half a dozen games going back a decade.
I don't think fall 2018 was set years in advance. You shouldn't trust a dev that gives you a date years away, unless it's EA announcing next year's 2kXX game. It's probably safe to say that there will be a new one coming out next year and the year after that and the year after that. I'm surprised they haven't started doing that with battlefield. I think they started talking about fall this summer maybe this spring. It can feel like years. Sure. But waiting for the stall to empty when you've got to pee can feel like years too.
Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments
You mean "crush" time don't you ? :D
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crunch. They will be crunching lots of doritos staying up all hours of the night working.or maybe corn chips
edit: the devs havent communicated enough...we dont know their snacks of choice. Come clean with us devs!!!
I disagree.
If you had followed the conversation you would have known we were referring to the Fall 2018 Chargen release...not the game release. Obviously.
Ooogly's post says otherwise. True, it won't be as robust as at launch but certainly this isn't going to be bare bones...
Actually they announced "City of Titans Coming Fall 2018" back in 2016. You can see the upload date on the MWM Facebook page banner.
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I think they did and i think it was Pizza ! I wonder if they said that on Discord. I can't remember exactly.
To me, i'll have a crush for the Chargen insteand of crunching potates fried ^^
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