In CoX, we began life with Trainings, Dual-Origin Enhancements, and Single-Origin Enhancements, plus some really hard to get stuff like HamiOs, Hydra Enhancements, etc.
Then they rolled out the invention system and the IOs, (generic, uncommon, rare, and very rare), then PVP sets, then the superpacks.
This created a lot of overlap in the enhancement universe. Personally, I just used the old-fashioned Trainings, DOs and SOs until I got to level 50 usually, with the exception of using stuff I found if something good dropped for me from doing a Task Force or something, or if I had the Merits to buy something that I wanted at a lower level anyway (like some of the travel power procs, for example). In some cases I would still ship that "windfall" to other toons that I felt needed it more anyway.
My point here is simply this, that system was the result of building and patching and modifying and expanding the game over time and I don't think CoT is going to start with all of that stuff from day one, because CoX wouldn't have needed a lot of what it had if it's swag system were figured out from the start.
So does CoT need to do something similar, where you start on day 1 with something like TO, DO, SO and then wait for a more rich and diverse IO system later? And if so, can we still plan for that in such a way that when it does happen, it doesn't obsolete the older stuff and make a lot of it largely redundant?
I think CoT should have two different swag options to be used in powers:
1. Cheap, less-than-optimal enhancements (like generic IOs) which you don't outlevel ever but aren't the best thing to use for any power really. I see this as being just like generic IOs in that you can opt to get higher level versions of what you have, but it still isn't optimal, because there are no set bonuses and the enhancements don't enhance the power as much or in as many different ways as the more expensive "option 2" below would.
2. More expensive stuff (similar to the uncommon and rare and very rare sets we had in CoX) that you can use to gain an advantage over the cheap stuff, but (like SOs) you will eventually out-level it. When you get to level cap, the expensive stuff that works at that level is the best stuff to have.
I could see rolling out day 1 with only option 1, but adding option 2 later.
Another thing I wasn't crazy about in CoX was the fact that some of the best sets were level capped below level 50, which meant you couldn't get them as random drop when playing your level 50 toon at all. In other cases, some stuff was available at all levels, but was more desirable to have at a lower enhancement level because it had non-level-dependant proc effects and would be shut off if you exemplared below it's level range. And then if you did exemp down, you still got level 50 drops anyway, which presumably people would want, but not when you're trying to randomly get a level 12 Super Speed +Stealth proc or something.
I could be remembering some if this wrong, but in any event, please design the system such that level capped toons aren't scraping around for a way to get lower level gear for some reason.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
And when you look at those options, it *REALLY* does make it sound like the gear systems of MMO's, where the only limitation was your character level to *IF* you can equip it, and not "WHEN IT EXPIRES" (because I had a level 60something ish Trinket that I used in WoW all the way to MoP cap... because it was the item that gave a load of stamina for my warrior... and there wasn;t another that I could get).
And that is what I am preferred to like... where you can easily and are *expected* to chop and change your enhancements/gear/whatever it will be called as you level up, with what you are expected to get from *playing* the game, rather than the limited CoX model where you could quite easily in the middle of a mission suddenly level up and find that X/Y/Z powers effectively have NO enhancements.
To an extent, I don't think that you should be expected to *plan* for "enhancement" failure, because that can make it a deterrent. And it would have to be *well explained* that this does happen in the game (if it is implemented).
Out-leveling an enhancement doesn't necessarily have to mean it's completely non-functional, and even if it is, it could be something you don't actually feel the effects of until you go cash in your level up at Ms. Liberty, etc. For example, a "type 2" enhancement might go from "regular ehnancement effectsl" down to "30% of what it once was" when you out-level it, thus prompting you to try to find something better (even a generic IO would be better at this point). And that "30%" hit doesn't even kick in until you actually officially cash in the level up that puts you out of the level range of the thing in question.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
So, CoH/CoV should never have had RED SO's.. just really Dark Orange ones? :)
And the farther they got in Level from you, the less effective they were? :)
After IOs came out, the SOs were basically obsolete at all levels anyway. The generic IOs, even the level 10 ones, never got outleveled. You could leave them in "Brawl" if you wanted to and they'd do more for you at level 50 than a level 40 SO would do. That said, there were still a lot of way better options to be had in the sets. The only advantage to SOs was that they didn't have to crafted and were cheaper.
My point is, I don't think we're going to plan on having to totally overhaul the enhancement system in an update later on like CoX did, you can just start with generic IOs first, then add the sets, which will be rarer, later on and the good old generics won't be useless, they just won;t be the end-all-be-all anymore.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I should point out I also think that sets which you'd need to collect multiple pieces of as random drops and/or on the market worked best in CoX as a thing for when you hit the level cap and wanted to twink your toon out to the max. Nobody spent enough time at levels 10-30 to actually collect a complete low level set, and there were basically none that were worth trying to get. If there are going to be lower level sets, they should be reasonable at the level cap if not totally optimal, and they should focus primarily on things like travel powers and other stuff that you don't have to really max for effect, like attacks.
So the intended idea with low-level type 2 enhancements is that you pay more for them now, but they give you more enhancement now (the most available, in fact) but eventually that effect wears off as you rise in level and you need to spend MORE influence to get the NEXT type 2 you need later. This basically encourages people to stick to the cheaper type 1 stuff as they're leveling their toon then switching to type 2 at level cap or very near. But it allows people who want to be totally boss the option of that, even at low levels, albeit at a greater influence cost.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I'll leave the rest of the topic alone so I don't end up writing a text wall, but I think CoH did have one major advantage over other games' gear systems that is seldom mentioned:
It was reasonable to begin slotting many "final build" gear pieces after level 30... far below cap! Due to the minor gains of a L50 over a L35, the possibility of finding a deal (or better availability) on a lower-level recipe, and wider exemplaring range for the set bonus, players felt more freedom to work toward a final build while leveling, which decreased the pressure to rush to level cap. It also allowed the player to feel a larger sense of progression during the leveling process, instead of getting the overwhelming amount of their "gear power" as a step function at level cap - as is quite common in traditional fantasy MMOs, along with a "gear is for endgame, all else is trash" mentality that I strongly dislike.
I would like to see at least half of the "best stuff" in our IO set system open up long before cap. Whether that is done through level-less enhancements, allowing higher level enhancements to be slotted early with a small decrease in effectiveness, buy-great-gear "merits" earned while leveling, or something similar, I am open to many methods. The important thing is to unlock huge swaths of the fun of crafting and enhancing as part of the path to level cap, rather than treating the progress toward a final enhancement build as exclusively endgame material or something that can be bought / created early but must be stuffed in a bank during the leveling path. If the best gear only drops and equips at level cap, it creates a large motivating force to rush past content or focus 100% on "ultra-efficient XP procurement" (*wink wink*, say no more).
I think you've made a great analysis there, Scott, especially in regards with how it motivates some players to rush to the cap. Adopting a philosophy where enhancements are part of a progression more so than expendable loot is a great way, in my opinion, to get players to invest in their characters.
I hope we don't have Standard Boosts (Enh) that are tied to Origin or Class or what-have-you. When I get a standard drop I should be able to use it. If the game wants to have Stores that sell me a +Acc Boost that's a bit cheaper as I am the same Origin than my team mate that's fine. My Team mate can run to the other store and save some money - or stay with me and save some time (as long as each Origin has a store in that zone).
I also HATED it when I levelled and all my Enh turned Red. It cost quite a bit of money to fully outfit a character using SO's when everything turned Red. Now if all Boosts were not tied to Origin this would have been less of an issue as I wouldn't get drops I cant use and going from level 27-29 should mean I get enough drops to not break my bank.
I like the idea of Boosts bottoming out at say 30% - whether this is Red or Really Dark Orange is a matter of colour preference really :)
And I too never got why IO SetA maxed at 40, IO SetB maxed at 35 and IO SetC maxed at 50? I usually played my max levels toons on max level content, and only rarely played much below level 50, but I still searched for my IO's from level 40-50 as the actual difference was bugger all.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
The basic idea is sound for PvE, and presumably the crafting would focus on the second option. For PvP it would recreate the problem that players will have to obtain the (presumably) most expensive boosts/builds in order to be competitive. Always assuming that PvP uses the same gear paradigm as PvE.
This was one of my biggest beefs with how the enhancement system and/or exemplaring functioned, and one of the reasons I rarely did exemplar. If my character is level 40 or level 50, I will build them to be a level 40 or a level 50. I am not going to build my character to be a level 20 or a level 30 because I might, at some point, exemplar down to those levels. If I do exemplar and my character becomes a wet noodle because the powers I have are essentially unslotted, it will be an experience I will only want to suffer through once.
I assume that these problems stemmed from the CoH engine, since they could scarcely have done much to make exemplaring less user friendly.
This is another example of something that frustrates me. Why would any developer make it difficult or impossible to improve some aspect of the character for very long stretches, or until the level cap? (Granted, a good 70% of WoW's focus is on raids but still...) This also goes toward what Radiac and cybermitheral said about IO sets designed with limits to various levels. Obtaining a complete set of anything is a sufficient grind in most MMOs that it is just plain mean to force players to jump through extra hoops to obtain them once they are outside a certain level range. Especially if all or part of that set is highly desirable at the level cap.
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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
y wow and other mmo issue Power Creep y i say CoT need Perfect Imbalance - What Changes the Competitive Meta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w and Spectacle Creep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKzJWoZWMOI
Power Creep > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw
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I may be slightly off topic here, but I kind of hope the whole "enhancement" system is revamped in CoT. Don't get me wrong, I liked slotting my powers, adding the extra punch, or knockback that a power needed. I was even in favor of the origin specific Enhancements, it made sense. "If your a mutant, this enhancement will make your powers stronger." I could wrap my head around it. As things got more and more involved in the art of crafting "Enhancements" for your powers, my interest dwindled. I was more interested in using the invention system to craft temporary powers and costume pieces. I realize that the Invented enhancements were stronger, and I even liked the idea behind the "Enhancement Sets" But I wasn't nearly as interested in going out to collect them, maybe it was just me. I wanted to loot for other stuff.
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My biggest issue with CoH's enhancement system were that some of the design choices were utterly nonsensical. Targeted AoE's, of which I could easily get 7 of on the same character, had all of one halfway decent set and five total. Though I think there were one or two new ones coming out, or that had recently been released before CoH closed.
Meanwhile Snipes, which most characters had zero of, and could get 2 of with I think all of one tertiary pool on all of two AT's, had like eight friggin recipe sets which ALL went to fifty.
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