I personally played CoX on and off for the full 8 years and never really got to "done" in terms of the Enhancements my toons had in their powers. That is, by the end some still had some SOs and some generic IOs here and there and I had very few purples overall.
For this reason I felt like all of my toons, though ostensibly "done" in terms of leveling up and having the most necessary swag, were not "REALLY done" in the sense that I still had places to go and purples to get eventually for all of them.
If there's an end-game in CoT that isn't just "get to level cap, roll new alt" I think the very rare Enhancers and the long-term desire for best Enhancers possible can be part of that.
Also, I gotta believe they'll roll out more levels beyond whatever the level cap is when the game starts. Maybe not like WoW has done, but it probably won't stop at 50 like CoX did either, I hope.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I do hope that the ONLY end game isn't alting, because I actually only had a handful of alts in CoH. BUT, I spent tons of time refining the build of my two mains and just enjoying playing all the content.
So, I vote:
1) potentially (for those that like it) but optional (for those that don't like Paladin :P) complex build possibilities AND
2) lots of player-created and randomized content on top of alting, so that
3) just continuing to play the game is a viable endgame.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
What are you defining as end game? Continue to refine a build (grinding for the purple) or more cap level content that pushes tactics and power usage (using a character to full potential).
The only end game I would like to see is one that has a purpose to have a level cap character. However slow as it was to trickle out, incarnate was a story meant for level cap and was building from issue to issue. You had power increase but had story driven power increase.
I understand that IOs can't be the only goal at the end game.
I agree.
And i think that giving us some new goals at the level max who give some little bonuses (ex: +2% extra life) if we succeded to kill a list of (HARD) Boss(es) will be good... for example :)
Hard goals, long list of tasks, raids, etc.... to win : little extra bonuses, special emotes, special transformations (effects when we switch costumes), eventually to unlock a speacial Archetype, special vanity pets, special objects for the Headquarter, ...etc
I don't have a problem with there being a "final" max level cap (50?) in a game like CoT as long as there's at least some other method of post-cap advancement that potentially never really ends. Levels are just arbitrary numbers so where the scale ends at (50, 60 or 100+) doesn't really mean much for those who want to have an actual substantive reason to keep playing main characters.
I did like the idea in CoH that "the long term desire for best enhancers possible" provided a reason to keep playing for many people. I also liked how the Incarnate system provided an end game environment where you could eventually "finish" it but it would've taken the average player thousands of extra hours to do so.
I've heard people refer to this concept as "horizontal advancement" (where you gain more lateral skills/options) instead of "vertical advancement" (where you're gaining XP/levels). I do hope the Devs of CoT are at least considering something like this even if it might be a long time after launch before they introduce it. Rolling alts can be fun but it's definitely NOT the answer to what CoT's end game should ultimately be.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm thinking of endgame as what you do after you hit the level cap on a toon.
I think there ought to be very rare items SO rare that you have to either get really lucky or save up IGC for a long time to get ONE, then you still need like 40 more, etc.
One thing I liked about Incarnate as a surrogate or replacement for the levels it would have equated to (level 51-?) was that you could craft different powers to put into the power slots that you got. And you had oodles of options for which Lore pets you wanted, or which Alpha slot power was best for you, etc. I would enjoy more of that type of thing too.
And that wouldn't even have to be connected to any one specific storyline. It could just be when you get a certain amount of XP beyond level 30, you get a "power slot" instead of a traditional level up and power, and that slot can then be occupied by any one of a number of different possibilities, all of which would have to be unlocked via doing different content (more than once) and or crafted from components, etc.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
The genius of the Incarnate system was that it provided a huge number of options (for those who were hyper-completionists) while making it relatively easy to earn any one specific set of options if that's all you wanted. The key to game balance was that you could only use one of those options at any given time. This allowed people to have (for example) a collection of Lore pets if desired but they would not become overpowered because they could only use one of those pets at a time.
As an example of what NOT to do in CoT we could look at the recently introduced Champion System of ESO. ESO provided a huge set of tiny combat bonuses that you earn with Champion Points (CP). After max level (50) you basically earn new champion levels and get a CP to spend for each one. They spread it out so that you could earn as many as 3,600 CPs. Now while it might take the average player several years to finally grind out 3,600 CPs that player's characters (with all the accumulated micro bonuses) will be hyper powerful godlike tank-mages that'll be able insta-kill any non-CP'd character in a blink of an eye. Even the Devs of ESO acknowledge that fully CP'd characters are going to "break" their current combat system yet they still let this thing happen despite the chaos it's going to cause. The key problem is that all the CP bonuses you get are 100% cumulative. It would be as if you could use every single CoH Incarnate power you had all at the same time. It's going to be a nightmare once enough people have earned close to the 3,600 max.
Clearly any end game system CoT provides needs to allow for long term advancement while at the same time providing for game balance that won't spiral out of control.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The words endgame make me sad.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
In my view with the system ESO is using, you also run the risk of killing alts. STO is using spec points to add an extra layer of ability but the curve (grind) to get them is killing the alt crowd. I think CoX did the incarnate progression the right way. You got an incarnate level power piecemealed out to the point that once you got it completed on one character, the natural alt progression kicked in to then get it on another. Content that let you get the salvage on the other hand was not in abundance. If done would like to see the CoX progression method vs the drop in your lap method.
The words Incarnate System made many people happy.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
The truly ugly thing about ESO's Champion System is that any progress you make on it applies account wide. This means that as soon as you rack up 3,600 CPs on your account any alt character you have automatically gets to allocate their own 3,600 points worth. Sure a brand new character would have to be power leveled up to 50 first, but the time it would take to do that is trivial next to earning the 3,600 CPs. Basically this means as soon you've become a hyperpowered tank-mage on one character you can have 7 others just like it almost instantly.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Crazy. *Facepalm
One thing that interests me about the end game is the view everyone has on you in game. In the updates it was said that every choice you make in game will effect how you are seen, good/evil/rouge. Will this style continue on after you level cap and what will it mean, everything, nothing? I have a feeling that in the game it's not going to make much of a difference what the view on you is(which I hope is not the case) unless you are at the extreme sides of the scale. I for one hope that what your fame or infamy is will have some effect on how the end game is and even beyond.
In CoH I was a very avid badge hunter and messed around with the IO's but did not have much purpose until the Incarnate system came out. I thought it was very well done and added a lot more to the story. I would not be disappointed if something like that was eventually implemented into CoT.
I would really like to see rare items(pets, weapons,enhancements, recipes, new stories, etc) be a big part of the end game. And this doesn't have to be luck based, it could be static mission completion as well. Having known rewards for missions gives incentives to play them.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
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Well, for one thing, by refining my build I didn't mean grinding for purples. I meant making the Hero more and more exactly what I wanted her/him to be. Actually, I didn't use many purples. AND the Incarnate System was part of my build.
I "ground" because I loved playing. Seriously. I played all the time--hours and hours--in ways that had absolutely ZERO benefit to my build because it just was frickin fun to be an awesome Superhero.
Also, didn't a dev post something about leveling and then something like lateral... something? Lateral progression at after leveling?
I'll look it up--hold on.
Oh, never mind, they basically meant tweaking your build to make your Hero more like you want them to be.
Which is winning.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I was both an avid altaholic AND very much enjoyed re-visiting my 50s to get purples or incarnate stuff to kit them out. If CoT approached the level cap like CoH did I wouldn't be disappointed. If they come up with something better than - or in addition to - those two, even better.
I tried the incarnate stuff and did not like it.
first of all it offended me for religious reasons for my character to become a pagan god.
It didn't suit any character I would ever play,
but I didn't realize what it was about until I had already gotten started
so the one character I did it with kept going for a little while.
I soon discovered that the system was way too complicated for me
and I wasn't motivated enough to put that much effort into it.
It didn't really matter anyway
the items you needed to advance hardly ever dropped while playing solo
So I'd have to really be immortal to advance as an incarnate anyway.
Over all I didn't see any point to it.
And I thought it would have been a lot simpler to just raise the level cap to 60 or 100 or whatever.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
But what does the raising of the level cap do then? You would get more power, face tougher enemies and so forth. Curious to know what your "end"game would be Paladin.
As I said the words endgame make me sad
I have no interest in including such a thing at all
I just want to go on playing.
As a matter of fact, if I don't like the higher level content, I'll just turn off XP gain and keep playing at a level I like
With Player made content I've been told that the game should feel endless
so endgame wont have to haunt me.
of course I won't know if I like the higher level content till I try it
so my first and highest level toon will have to be a throw away explorer that I don't care about.
He'll check stuff out to see what I want my real characters to do.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Interesting, I always viewed endgame as something for a max character to do. For me CoH's peregrine island was all endgame. Patrols and story arcs alike. The incarnate was just another story arc that added more power, The Rikiti zone with its story arc. To each his/her own.
Honestly speaking, the entire concept of "endgame" annoys me every time it comes up.
It's a roleplaying game. The story progress is the game. Since there will be good quality UGC tools, after you finish the game story you can create your own story.
Although, with the way Leads/Clues/Alignment have been described, it also seems to me that it is entirely possible and highly likely that even rolling an alt and working through the narrative will not be the same the second time around. Certain points along the way, certain crossroads will be the same, but the path itself will be different and will feature different stories.
If you're not playing a MMORPG for the story, then why play it at all? I understand and I realize that there are groups who simply want to experience one or two aspects of gameplay, but if you powerlevel up to max level in order to experience a particular raid or PvP or some other isolated feature, then why complain about the "lack of endgame content" when you haven't even experienced the game yet?
Chess players do not complain about "boring endgame content" because for most players, every game is different. It seems to me, MWM is doing their best to create something similar in CoT.
Alts
Diverging story paths
Player created content
Raids
Completing Augment sets
Searching for rare and ultra rare badge achievements
Searching for rare and ultra rare Augments
Crafting rare and ultra rare Augments
Buying low and selling high at the Auction House
PvP
I honestly don't understand this fear there will be a lack of "endgame content". It seems to me there will be a ton of things to do after getting that first character to max level. I suppose, for lack of a better term, this could be called "endgame content", but since very little of it depends on having a max level character, why not just call it "content"?
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I didn't either till I played Champions :P.
But, in line with what you said, I never had that problem in 8 years of CoH.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I agree with Greyhawk.
Universe takes note.
but doesn't feel the need to explode.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Yeah I hated Peregrine Island
There was no way I could be the kind of hero I wanted to be there.
There were no normal streetgangs (the closest thing was the circus people)
it was crawling with aliens and robots and those damn goofy guys in the old fashioned army uniforms (don't even care who they were) There was nothing there that felt real
And the biggest attraction in the place was those portals to other dimensions.
I felt the same way about the Rikti War Zone.
People keep telling me you could be a street level hero all the way to 50th level if you wanted but I couldn't see how.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I partially agree with Paladin.
Universe gets a migraine
but takes two Motrin and a nap...
I loved Perigrine Island, but irregardless, you had to use some internal mental gymnastics to be a level 50 and consider yourself "street level" in CoH.
Hell, I had trouble maintaining a purely Super Strength themed guy when the incarnate system came out. I would have had to mentally edit out that I punched people so hard they--glowed?
And that I had no Judgement unless I wanted to shoot something or jump around like Daredevil.
And I could have come up with something, but I loved the fact that this guys power was just that he was incredibly tough and strong. And of course I could (and did) just play without the Incarnate stuff on that Hero, but, man, bummer : /.
I rolled with it, but I'd hope somehow CoT can do a bit better.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
OK paladin, so if I am comprehending accurately, you are looking for a street crime, mob boss style environment from level 1 to 50. So what would be the difference between a street thug level 1 vs. a street thug level 50? Hitpoints, access to more abilities or mixture of both. I get where your coming from, just curious how you would translate it to gameplay progression.
A problem I see, is that after a certain level of 'threat-rating', be that represented by levels or whatever, any reasonable or unreasonable 'street-level' enemy is no longer a credible challenge to the hero. It only works in Comics because Most heroes don't progress very far beyond their formative issues.
Superman started out punching thugs, but soon realized he could eat nuclear waste and fart daisies. At that point, it became a matter of not accidentally causing more destruction than he prevented. The writers had to move him beyond Metropolis to find a worthy opponent.
One could argue that Batman had to join the JLA (or another high-level team) in order to graduate beyond the next fruitcake with a gun and a gimmick. Daredevil never did, so he was stuck with 'magical ninjas' as the top of his food-chain. Spiderman ended up fighting the 'freak of the week', or Himself, which is probably why he kept Quitting the hero-biz.
The biggest challenges for these heroes 'stuck in a genre' became moral and social, rather than physical. Which makes a Great Story! But not so much a great game.
I can appreciate your wanting to play out your character's story-line the way you envision it, Paladin. However, in a game, in a MMO, you are simply Going To out-level that content, eventually. Unless you do something to artificially limit your progression.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Just some thoughts on my part, but maybe various levels of powers?
Hellions/Skullz
Oucasts/Trolls
Marcone
Carnival of Shadows
They had street level styled enemy groups that got more difficult (or should have in theory) as one went up in levels.
I'd say it's more a matter of style than anything else. The streetlevel hero is less likely to be fighting aliens regularly (Rikti) or going back in time or dealing with the big world conqueror types.
This doesn't mean they won't or can't, but rather just a general theme. You don't tend to see Batman taking on certain villains outside of the JL for instance.
As I said I'm just glad I can turn off XP gain at whatever level I'm happy.
I don't think superheroes should keep growing in power.
Most don't, and the only hero who's "leveled" from street fighting to cosmic opponents is Superman, who's extraordinary progression reflected the growing and changing concept of what a superhero could be.
Frankly I don't see why the type of opponents has to change from level to level
If you want to claim I can play a street fighting hero all the way to 50th level then have 50th level gang bosses surrounded by elite minions.
Also there should be street encounters with extraordinary costumed villains and monsters that fit the appropriate power level.
I'd love to run into someone like Doc Oc, the Lizard, the Vulture, the Rhino, or that crowd while I'm swinging around.
Levels simply shouldn't make SOOO much of a difference that a 50th level character can't be challenged by a sufficient number of low level opponents. The biggest difference should be what powers you pick, not what level you are.
That's part of why I like the idea of opening up cosmic powered ATs that have different starting places and contacts. These would have the kind of power that makes street fighting a joke.
Also I don't have a problem with fighting aliens from time to time, a change of pace is nice, but it should be a mission NOT a zone.
seeing stuff like that all over the streets makes the city seem ridiculous and the rikti war zone should be on the moon so normal people never ever see that kind of stuff.
Most people shouldn't even believe in vampires or aliens and they should be reasonable rational people not looneys.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
In some ways I sort of agree with the idea that most superheroes (at least the big-named ones we see in comic books) don't really fit in with the standard MMO game paradigm as far as "gaining levels" goes. Most of the time the heroes we see in the stories are already at the apex of their powers and we don't really relate to them starting out as "level 1 heroes" who have to gain power bit-by-bit until they are considered "level 50 heroes". This isn't usually a problem in most D&D-based fantasy MMOs because it's far more accepted in those settings that ALL characters will start out weak but eventually grow in powers/abilities.
Now depending on your specific character concepts certain aspects of "gaining levels" may actually fit perfectly fine. One of my favorite characters in CoH started fighting crime with her superpowered gadgets when she was 15 and I chose to "age" her (via the costume creator) into her mid-twenties as she gained levels. But the flexibility of the superhero setting will also allow for plenty of concepts that basically don't make any sense to start out "weak" and become "stronger" later. For instance we can look at characters like Marvel's Thor: sure Thor has an origin story (and sometimes loses his powers completely) but technically speaking as soon as he starts being a hero on Earth he's already as powerful as he's ever going to be. It's kind of silly to think of a 10th level version of Thor being less powerful than a 40th level version of Thor. Basically that character does not really lend itself to the MMO leveling paradigm.
Ultimately much of the responsibility for how we choose to have our characters "react" to the game's system of advancement is up to us. If you have a character like Paladin's who sees himself as the quintessential "street hero" fighting the never ending scourge of street crime then obviously an end-game that involves elements of divine ascension probably isn't going to work too well for that specific character. On the other hand if you have a character whose origin was already based on some other-worldly multiverse concept then the idea of gaining power via becoming an "Incarnate" might make a little more sense. If anything the biggest problem with CoH's Incarnate system was that it wasn't generic enough to fit with everyone's character concepts.
When CoT tackles this end-game problem they might want to take a lesson from CoH and make sure that the details concerning how it works are as generic and universal as possible. It doesn't help to force everyone into becoming "magical demigods" when some character concepts simply don't (and would never) work like that.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
People aren't just born with super powers and just immediately know how to handle them. Cosmic knowledge was not implanted into them at conception along with their powers. THAT is silly.
People have to grow into their powers. The reason why you don't see that, well.........it's boring. You don't want to read 100 comics showing how Superpowered Man trains for 8 hours a day on top of doing his regular every day chores so he can learn how to control his powers.
And also, yes, Superheroes do grow. Even if they have thought they had already mastered all of their powers. They learn new ways to use them, different uses they didn't even know they could do with a power they've been using for several years.
Leveling does happen. It's just not in such a way that you sometimes think of or see happening.
Superheroes are ALWAYS growing in power. It just may not be in the way you think. Superman could be fine tuning his laser vision and you wouldn't know because all you see is lasers coming out of his eyes. Doesn't mean he's not still trying to learn how to focus that laser to do different things.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
When I played CoX, I generally tried to get my toon to the level cap by doing task forces a lot. Then I'd try to finish their IOs off for the time being. This took the form of using my Mastermind to grind for Hero Merits, then buy the exact thing I wanted from B.O.T.L.E.R. in Fort Trident, email it to myself then slot it into the toon that needed it. Meanwhile that toon is now doing missions to unlock his Alpha slot and trying to get on Lambda and BAF trials when they get formed, then later doing other stuff to climb that Incarnate ladder and/or get different options for Lore pets, etc. I would also do the Portral missions to try to get the Portal Jockey Accolade as well as the other ones that gave Accolade stat buff or long-recharge powers like the Crey gun or the Ring of the Archmage. Some of that stuff took so much work I didn't really have time to do it on every toon, but it was nice to know it was there and that there were still things to do to get that stuff on my toons. I never felt "finished" with a toon, only ever "okay, I'm done for now with this guy, what does the other toon need?". This way I could waft back and forth between any one of a few different toons that all played differently and kept the game fresher for me while trying to kit out everyone with everything, knowing it would take way to much work to really get there on all of them but having that as a goal where my reach exceeds my grasp. Also, the lateral growth options in the Incarnate system made it very "let's do it again!" re-playable for me, as I am a paper and pencil DnDer and as such like a good level up as much as anyone.
If CoT could remake that kind of end game goodness, I would be very happy.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
For me, the "endgame" in a MMORPG is that once you reach the Level Cap there are still [b]Things To Do[/b] ... simply because the the Level Cap isn't the ONLY measure of progress for your character. I mean, let's face it ... if gaining XP is the "only thing to do" in a game, it's going to get pretty boring once you've reached the Level Cap and there's "nothing left to do" because all XP earned at that point is "wasted" by being at the Level Cap.
Crafting [i]alone[/i] is insufficient to filling that yawning chasm in motivation to keep playing.
This is why ideally you want to have "things to do" at endgame that don't rely on purely mercenary motivations, such as the Rikti Mothership Raid that was more of a social event (where the rewards were Bragging Rights more than anything) and a feeling of being a part of something "more" than just being a soloist who can knock over everything in sight. This falls into line with the (supposed) lament by Alexander the Great that there are no more worlds left to conquer.
This is part of the reason for why I have kept pushing for a World PvEvP system of Control Points so as to have a readily available source of equilibrium disrupting content which the Players can [i]INFLUENCE[/i] the outcome of but not necessarily [i]CONTROL[/i] directly. That way, each engagement can be different, rather than simply being a repeat.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Poor Clark Kent.. Heat Vision, [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zof5dgiI2Ag]its Sooo Hard for him[/url]. ;)
Obviously it takes some super powered people more or less time to "master" their powers based on whatever their concepts are. My point is that the comic book genre does not automatically shoehorn all superheroes into a mandatory predefined "leveling" system where all heroes of say level 5 are roughly equivalent to each other. The concept of gaining power via levels is strictly a MMO game mechanic to regulate player progress.
For example let's say I come up with the character concept of a daemonic princess who's been using her "powers" for several hundred years suddenly finding herself banished to Earth by her sadistic father. That's a perfectly plausible "origin story" for a superhero setting. Now I could decide to say that her father somehow "depowered" her so she'd be forced to "relearn" her powers (via the metagame mechanic of earning levels in the game) but I could just as legitimately say that when she came to Earth her other-worldly powers were left intact. My character - my concept. How am I supposed to have a character who I envision to be practically a demi-goddess have to "fit" within the reality that she's now a level 1 character in a game? Maybe I just have to pretend she's always been a level 50 Incarnate from Day One and "handwave" the actual time and effort it takes to get her to level 50.
See the difference? Some characters lend themselves to "going though the process of becoming more powerful over time" whereas others simply have to fight against (or at least tolerate) the arbitrary mechanics of a game system to get to where they envision themselves to already be from the start.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yes. I get that. But she still had to start from no experience to the demi-goddess she is now. That's what I am saying. And just because she spent 100 years learning all of her powers doesn't necessarily mean she has learned "everything". There is always room to grow and improve. Even a level 1 power can make someone look like a God to a person that doesn't have ANY powers.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Keep in mind that I'm talking about all this in terms of how an "end game" should be handled for CoT. Like I said if necessary I can always "handwave" the classic MMO leveling system as a simple "inconvenience" to be taken care of first in order to play the "actual" level 50 uberdude (or dudette) I envisioned from the start.
Basically "leveling" is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to endgame considerations for a superhero game.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I was really referring to Paladin's comments, for the most part. As far as Endgame goes, I prefer a more horizontal movement than a vertical one. Fine tuning and expanding the powers we have gained up to Max level.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
And in reference to Paladin's comments all I was saying is that the end game elements of CoT ought to be as generic as possible so that they can apply to as many character concepts as possible (whether they're intrinsic "levelers" or not).
It seemed that Paladin's main criticism against having an end game system wasn't actually having such a system but having one that forced everyone into a form of "divinity" which he seems to have a personal hang-up about. If we could have an end game system that's not tied to any specific Dev-developed storyline then maybe it would be more palatable to more players.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
In all honesty, any person that has a "Super" power is going to be viewed as "God-like". Sure there are some that can be likened to your "average Joe", i.e. Iron Man and Batman, but even then they are held in awe much like a God.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
"So, what's your superpower?" "I can make toast taste like it has strawberry jam on it." "Wooooaaaah. --wait, why do I find that so impressive?" "My secondary power is making people think my primary power is impressive."
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
It's still better than what Aquaman has. At least you can eat toast on dry land. :)
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Everyone always forgets that Aquaman has super-strength and super-toughness. Not "bulletproof," but still super-toughness.
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Dave Chapelle bit:
Aquaman: Hi, fish.
Fish: Hi, Aquaman.
Aquaman: Have you seen any... CRIME happening anywhere around here lately?
Fish: Hi, Aquaman.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
As long as he is hydrated. Used to be if he was out of water, he was pretty much useless. Then they changed it so that he had to at least drink a glass of water to retain his abilities.
Because everybody hated him and made fun of him. Cuz he sucks.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
HE DOES MORE THAN TALK TO FISH
Aquaman's telepathy can also influence non-aquatic life in subtle ways. He can't read minds and directly communicate telepathically with people, but in different adventures he's given people hypnotic suggestions. Once battle involved him causing enemy to have a seizure by simply concentrating. A mental attack he unleashed on the evil Kordax was so intense that the villain killed himself to end it.
Aquaman was born with a number of other abilities. As a swimmer, he's reached a top speed of 1,000 knots (about 1,150.7 mph) and has launched himself 60 feet into the air from the water. This strength means Arthur can easily lift a car and throw it like a football. He once helped support a burning 10-story building for several minutes until firefighters could evacuate everyone. [color=blue]Bullets bounce off him, leaving only scratches[/color]. His senses are enhanced, his eyes able to see in complete darkness. And a connection to unseen, magical forces has given Aquaman several prophetic visions over the years.
Add to that his years of fighting experience and the fact the he doesn't shy away from bloodshed or killing if he thinks he has to, unlike Superman and Batman, and you've got a pretty deadly warrior.
for the whole article see: http://www.newsarama.com/15433-a-laughingstock-10-reasons-aquaman-is-a-badass.html
If Aquaman partnered with Batman, Gotham City would look like metropolis in a week.
The main thing Aquaman suffers from is super sucky story lines.
They always have him doing things in Atlantis where everyone has water breathing super strength and super tough hide.
If everyone else has the most of same powers then he doesn't seem nearly as special, There.
But if he had his adventures closer to land interacting with humans he'd be awesome.
Personally I'd love to see an Aquatic hero who ISN'T an Atlantean and doesn't interact with them, but fights crime like a regular superhero.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
If I could swim to the depths of the oceans, explore, watch the majesty...
I'd take that gig.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I'd miss fire, electricity and toilet paper too much
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Ok. LOL on toilet paper. But, hey, saline bidet...
Get's things squeaky clean and sanitary.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
As someone who has actually gone SCUBA diving ... you do know that the ocean gets [b]DARK[/b] after a few hundred feet of depth ... right? There's not a whole lot to SEE down there if you don't bring your own light source.
Oh, and for anyone who doesn't know, this is what SCUBA stands for ...
[b]S[/b] ome
[b]C[/b] ome
[b]U[/b] p
[b]B[/b] arely
[b]A[/b] live
[img]http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/scuba-diving-flag-7160967.jpg[/img]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
You know the part of the article, that I quoted, mentioned that Aquaman can see in total darkness.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Ok, Red, come on. Don't just assume I don't know what I'm talking about.
A) Part of Aquaman's officially stated powers are aquatic sonar and the ability to see both clearly under water and to see in all but total darkness.
B) Yes, I am aware that it eventually becomes very dark past the euphotic zone.
But there is an absolutely staggering amount of bioluminesent life down there, and so with eyes that can see in all but total darkness, I'd be wiling to bet that there is indescribable majesty to see.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Or just use your aquatic telepathy to get a fish pedicure for your fissure.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Majesty, or just foot/fish jokes. Either way :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Foot Fet'fish?
Too much? :{
Scuba Steve?
So by the obsession people are having with this, it seems the favorable end game is turning into a fish and swimming down into the deep blue becoming jelly men xD
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
LOL, ok, that's hilarioius...
But kind of a good idea for "endgame" content. O_O. Well, sort of...
There's a lot of water around Titan City, right? Have some high-level zones/missions that are UNDER WATER (don't worry Red, we'll make sure there's a light source :P)!!!
Seriously, one of the few things Champions got right was having underwater missions and zones. And it's just flight/hover with a different animation and some atmospheric effects to make it look like underwater. There was always all that water in CoH and I thought it frustrated me a little that we couldn't even so much as swim below the surface except for that one little pool in that one mission.
There could be a "good" city like Atlantis, some creepy Ryleh-like ruins and lots of Lovecraftian horrors to fight. It could be grand and very creepy at the same time! And, seriously, they could use areas of darkness like they do in TSW to give certain areas--say, underwater caves--a very scary feel.
OH! And of course not at launch, but maybe make sure the underlying foundation is there to develop these zones/missions later on.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Actually, a bigger problem is going to be one common to almost every single MMORPG on the market right now, except for World of Warcraft (to my knowledge) ... that of all water only being 3 feet deep. Even the "ocean" is only 3 feet deep in most games. I jokingly bring this up because most games simply omit the "diving underwater" part of the environment.
In many cases, the reason for NOT allowing PCs to dive underwater is a simple cost/benefit analysis that determines whether underwater swimming is too much of a development cost to justify whatever benefits might be involved with it. Major factors involved here are [b]different game physics[/b] as a result of friction and buoyancy along with needing alternate animations for swimming around underwater and so on. Then there's the whole "breathing" problem to deal with as well.
On this subject, I have to give World of Warcraft MAJOR KUDOS for designing their world in such a way that the "world" doesn't just stop at the water's edge. Indeed, I'm actually hard pressed to think of any major faults with the way that World of Warcraft handles its underwater environments. Each race has their own "style" of swimming (so alternate animations all around), there are PvE objectives to be achieved underwater (from combat to harvesting) and there's even a decent system for dealing with the "edges" of where PCs ought to be allowed through use of the Fatigue system warning Players to turn back before it's too late (same as with the Sonic Fences around Praetoria, incidentally). They've even got the breathing thing down, complete with Breath Bar and sound FX to let you know when you're drowning. Simply [i]learning how to *fight* underwater[/i] with limited access to being able to breathe adds another dimension of challenge to the activity ... and that's before considering that an entire class of harvesting node for Herbalism is only available underwater (Stranglekelp) and that it's possible to find locked and unlocked Chests underwater that can be opened up for extra Drops. There are even storylines involving needing to go underwater and fight the sea creatures for stuff!
There's just one problem for doing the same in City of Titans.
The waters around Massachusetts aren't exactly ... warm/tropical. At the time of this posting, the water temperature of the ocean up there is around 40ª F/5º C ... which is mighty chilly for swimming! Needless to say, hypothermia would be a major consideration for swimming in water that cold, without adequate thermal protection (we're talking [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_suit]dry suit[/url] here, which is non-trivial).
Which then brings up an interesting opportunity, should MWM wish to pursue it. Post-launch, all you'd need to do in order to open up the Underwater Realm to additional exploration would be to implement a Dry Suit Temp Power, with mandatory costume change (and limited costume customization options, so that Batman can still "look like" Batman, just wearing a dry suit instead of his usual). Give the Temp Power its own "free" permanent costume slot that only activates when the Temp Power is toggled on and you're good to go. Make the Temp Power something that can be acquired repeatedly (overwriting previous duration remaining) and you're all set.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Who says 40 degree water is chilly? I used to swim when there was snow and ice on the beach! My Dad still does, I even have a recent picture of him and his new wife using snow as a beach chair to relax after a good several hour swim. Best time to swim at the beach was in winter, it's less crowded ;)
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Well it's not a bad idea, sort of like pokemon where you start out in a safe town(such as atlas park for the most part) and then right beside the town is where the path to the end game is. It would add a lot more area to add story without having to add worlds. For example if Atlas Park had an underwater level that you could return to after you reached cap. This would make use of the existing space but also give a reason for PC's to return to Maps and explore the areas.
There could be a max level mission or arc that rewards you with an oxygen mask(a mouthpiece like in star wars) that grants you access to these areas/the power to swim under water
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Well (and here I really don't know what I'm talking about :P), since Champions did it, in my non-dev mind I hoped that this could be covered with a "fast hover" type flight with a swimming animation and environmental effects that look "watery"--which seems like what they did in Champions. And, while it wasn't ultra-realistic in Champions, it wasn't bad and was way better than nothing. I'd guess(?) UE4 could do it better and easier. But, of course, I don't know. And I wouldn't expect it for launch.
Also, I Iike your wet/dry suit animations idea. I always wanted that in the water zones in Champions and it would be great if doable. Some heroes can breathe water (or don't need to breathe) and can take the cold, but some can do neither. So if there are three choices--just a breather, a dry suit, and maybe a more tech looking option. Because that would help with *immersion* (see what I did there :P?).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Hey! Thats a different thread :p
But they could do something where you get your oxygen mask in a mission or like Red said as a temp power in the store. I haven't used UE but I would imagine it has a pretty good setup to allow water physics. I know Unity was getting a lot better with it
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
A fourth option of no diving gear at all would be nice for those characters you mentioned that can breathe water anyway or do not need to breathe. Or in some cases are alredy wearing some kind of helmet.
The more I think about it, would it not be better to leave it to the players how their character survives underwater? They could just dedicate a costume slot to that if they feel it is needed.
I really wan to see a few coastlines look close to this:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/vyV3KS4.png[/img]
source video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u82fxXHBFhA
Might require DX11 though. :/
Yes, I was just assuming in my head that there would be a "no thanks" option. Should have written it "out loud".
But I like the idea of making a free temporary costume/slot for underwater stuff to make it easy for those who's heroes can't survive but maybe don't want to burn a costume slot just to have for when they occasionally go under.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Yeah, if there were options to get underwater it would be nice to figure it out and choose by yourself how to get to there. Whether it be from level 1 because your character has gils or you have a special suit. This leads to an interesting future path for the cities history. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the previous city burned down and Titan city was constructed on top of the ashes. The history could easily allow for such a forgotten city that lies washed away by a flood
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Um ... the easiest way to handle that situation is to have the extra "free" costume slot simply duplicate an existing costume. Yes, it's a different costume slot, but the information it contains is identical to something you'd otherwise be wearing ... meaning no change in appearance. With an easy import/export function of costume parameters, let alone a "Copy Slot X" function to make things even easier, this is what I feel confident could be safely classified as being a NON-PROBLEM.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Or diving will be a travel power and then you could choose the animation. The character could put on scuba gear, float around in a bubble of air or just swim without any aid. And those who do not pick diving will likely not be characters who can survive under water, so if the temp power version is scuba gear, it will not bother anyone.
Or ...
you could get a gold scale from the Fishing Game, that lets you dive deeper!!!
https://youtu.be/yMPr8JOvNBw?t=3m14s
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I'm a little confused.
Why would diving need to be a travel power? Champions just uses an altered version of flight.
And why would anyone be bothered by having an optional free diving animation that you don't have to use, but that is available in case your character can't survive under water.
This just seems like this is getting much more complicated than it needs to be.
Cryptic pulled off underwater missions and entire underwater zones in Champions without having diving as a travel power and while using the Craptic Engine. I'm sure eventually MWM can do it with UE4.
The only thing we're talking about that they are missing in Champions is a free underwater costume piece/animation. And exactly who would be bothered by having a free option to have a diving costume piece or animation if desired? It's just a free option that you don't have to use.
I'm just saying that if this has already been done in a now-old game like Champions, we don't have to make it hard or complicated.
Now, it may not (probably isn't) worth the dev's time at this point, but it should be quite manageable for possible future development, so I just hope they have the underlying structure for it.
And it'd be really cool.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
cryptic didn't pull it off very well... No one liked Lemuria and it was always empty even when people actually played the game. I'm not saying "don't do an under water level" but they're generally unpopular in gaming.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMcQdRLgVpMwXi_3yTCN5iA/videos
I would agree to a certain extent, unless it is done in a fun way and there is a good story behind it, I think it could work really well. But that is just my opinion, and it would definitely not be at launch, but any body of water can be transformed into a whole other area to explore!
Just imagine going down into the water and looking at ancient ruins of the history of Old Titan City and that could give you Leads to a mission or that actually leads you to some underground world where villains run amuck either in submarines or underwater lairs,
An example of a mission could involve land and underwater where a submarine is going to launch missiles at the town and you have to fight mobs above water to find out where the location of the submarine is, then you have to go down and defeat everyone in the submarine and stop them from firing in order to save the town
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Well, Cryptic not pulling it off well is a separate issue, because I was arguing capability not implementation.
Red mentioned that WoW uses underwater zones and missions. Are they unpopular in WoW too? if So, then you have a point.
So, if in fact it is true that under water zones just aren't popular in MMORPG's, then it may be best not to waste time or resources on them.
Bummer, but c'est la vie.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I do not know about World of Warcraft, but Guild Wars 2 has underwater zones and they are not popular. I think this is mainly because some skills do not work under water and that can render your build useless. But it is also something that is not done very often and takes a lot of getting used to.
And the reason why I suggested diving as travel power is to provide an option to the free underwater costume slot. I thought that those who want to include diving into their concept could do so by picking and customising the travel power, so they could have special underwater travel animations. For everyone esle there would be a standardised temp power available.
I guess the free costume slot would be better, since you would not need to invest in the diving power. But maybe the developers want to avoid putting too many free costume slots for various environments into the game. They seem to have some outer space events planned for level 50 contend and there could be a secret identity costume slot too. That could make character creation a little complex.
Underwater might be fun, but its too much work. Lets hold off on it for the moment. ;)
No one is talking about a Moon Base anymore? :(
I want a moonbase
I also want a Dinosaur island
A radioactive desert
A haunted castle
A subterranean world
A visit to a florida swamp
And a few adventures set in other cities and near famous landmarks around the world
Lets see kung fu fighting on the Great Wall
An abandoned military base inside Mt. Rushmore taken over by villains
A giant Monster attacking Tokyo
Undead in the catacombs of Paris
A super villain challenging me to a fight in the Coliseum
The Ghost of Joseph Stalin seizing control of the Kremlin
Searching for a lost explorer in the jungles of ...well, Lots of places
An ancient curse bringing aliens to the Great Pyramids
And I want to explore other planets as well.
Understand, I'm not asking for a complete zone for each of these things
Just a lot of variety in Adventure locations.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Just for the record, UE4 requires DX11, and will not run on DX9.
Just my 2 IGC.
Felix
Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
[color=#FF0000]Coding Lead[/color]
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm
Well, I must admit I'm a "lots of zones" person.
I LOVED that CoH had tons of zones. It made the world feel huge and, honestly, a big part of my endgame--meaning a way I killed lots of time on my 50's--was exploring all the zones.
Man did I spend a lot of time in the Shadow Shard exploring the lore. And it drove me nuts that one of the best maps in Champions, the Apocalypse Zone, was mission bound and after you finished the mission you couldn't go back unless you got on a team. I wanted to spend tons of time exploring that zone, and that would have kept me playing longer.
But, if it's best for CoT not to go the "lots of zones" rout that CoH did for the survival of the game, I'll suck it up and still be happy playing :).
I WOULD put forth, though, that if the devs take the time to build awesome maps anyway, don't only give us brief windows of access. Make them open or at least make them stay open after we unlock them through missions.
This obviously doesn't count for randomized or small mission maps, just the very large, static ones.
That way all those maps make cool missions AND make the world bigger, rather than just cool missions.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
If the missions I asked for get made, and are real popular maybe they can be expanded into complete zones later,
but since this is City of Titans, not World of Titans, and the lore focuses on this city
I don't think that's a direction they want to go, any time soon
Who knows maybe, in a few years,
update 23 with transform the game into World of Titans,
and turn all of these locations into complete zones,
and a few more I didn't think of as well.
If your dreams aren't big then you're not doing them right.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Ohhhh... :|
I guess I better start saving for a new GFX card. :{
Too bad OpenGL isnt the norm. :/
Mayhap. however, it might not need to break the bank. The cheapest nVidia card that I have found that meets the UE4 recommended specs is a GTX 750 Ti, which can be had for $130. It is very nice in that it does not require extra power from the power supply, so it will run in almost anything that has a PCI-E 16 slot. I am certain that there will be other options between now and our testing phase.
Felix
Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
[color=#FF0000]Coding Lead[/color]
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm
Heh - we still have quite some time before the game ships - save $15 to 20 bucks a week till release and you will be able to buy a truly monster of a rig by then.
Game mechanically speaking, a "specialized" version of Flight is what you want so as to emulate/simulate watery environments and movement. Swimming is thus a sort of low speed "flying" with different amounts of friction, producing "drifting" movement so you can't stop on a dime. From a development standpoint though, the important thing is that production of this Flight As Swimming alternative ISN'T FREE. It may be "simple" for the spreadsheet people to work up, but that doesn't get you off the hook for all of the art assets and animations and so on (etc. etc.) that is also required to make this work. Even something as simple a making bubbles come out and float up to the surface of the water is something that will require at least some work to implement. And although each individual piece may be "no big deal" on its own, taken in aggregate you're starting to talk about a major development effort to expand the game into an additional environment.
Because this is the internet. People will ALWAYS complain, no matter what. It's disappointing to see when people [i]ought to know better[/i] but it will still happen no matter what.
Only because there's a big difference between saying something would be cool and then understanding what is required to make that cool thing possible. The simple fact of the matter is that computer games have SPOILED us with all the nifty things they can do. Unfortunately, there's a lot of work that has to be done behind the scenes (where you're not watching) in order to make that degree of awesome possible ... and it's non-trivial.
Agreed, it would be cool ... but ... it's a whole other environment OUTSIDE THE CITY. That right there ought to tell you that the effort to develop and produce a 3D swimming environment would be non-trivial. I mean, for one thing, you're giving the World Builders a whole lot of extra stuff to do! A mandate for "more maps" is neither free nor happens in a vacuum.
So "cool" factor has nothing to do with it and the "cost" of the resources that would need to be allocated to it in order to realize it properly have to be accounted for. Because it's not just as simple as putting an extra "swimming" Power into the spreadsheet and reusing a Fly animation for it because it's really just Fly with different speed and friction parameters. There's art assets, there's animations, there World Building to make the maps ... and that's assuming that there aren't any "special rules" that apply while underwater (such as limited breathing, and so on and so forth).
In other words, underwater environments (and adventuring!) is an INVESTMENT ... meaning that the inevitable cost/benefit analysis crops up VERY early in the decision process. It only makes sense to do underwater environments if you seriously expect to not only make use of them but also to PUT SOMETHING there which will give Players a reason to visit the location. If there's nothing to DO out in the water, no one will go there. That in turn demands the creation of content out under the water, the creation of mob spawn maps so that water isn't an inherently "safe" place ... and on and on and on and on.
Yes, it would be really cool. I personally think [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Abyss]The Abyss[/url] was an incredible movie (up until reaching the Magic Aliens that defy reality at the end), so I'm all in favor of underwater environments, conceptually speaking. The problem is that they're a really major investment to actually go ahead and do ... in part because they expand the game world beyond what's merely above the waterline.
To a certain extent, Paragon Studios encountered the same problem with [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/First_Ward]First Ward[/url] and [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Night_Ward]Night Ward[/url]. After the initial rush upon release, once the "new car smell" wore off, First Ward was practically deserted at almost all hours of the day. There was a "one and done" flavor to the zone(s). And don't even get me started on how worthless the Seed of Hamidon turned out to be as a perpetually noisy "Event" overshadowing the entire center of the zone.
I wouldn't say they're unpopular so much as being shunned in favor of [i]easier[/i] objectives. It's not that the underwater content of WoW is unpopular per se, so much as that it isn't the first choice on the path of least resistance. That's because working underwater requires the Player to keep track of "extra things" unlike being on land. The first and most obvious difference is that you're dealing with a 3D rather than a 2D environment, and one that is inherently hostile/lethal (ie. breathing issue). Needless to say, some of the underwater Foes like to use abilities that immobilize you (the better to DROWN you with, my dear...) which can be something of a hassle to account for.
At the same time, because the underwater areas tend to be shunned in this way, they can make for superior harvesting locations for use of gathering skills (herbalism, mining), simply because there isn't as much competition out there for those resources. When I had excessive gathering requirements for Mithril Ore, rather than go to a heavily populated area and compete with everyone else for those nodes, I'd instead go offshore and dive to harvest them, because at least the Foe NPCs weren't harvesting those nodes. It was a hassle to have to swim for them, but it was also a low/no competition vs other Players consideration. As a result, I got VERY good at swimming and diving for harvesting and combat purposes, learning how to swim and surface without drowning. Needless to say, being able to Pull hostiles that had aggroed onto you up to the surface so you could fight AND breathe became rather important.
Things would get rather complex though when dealing with underwater interiors ... like needing to swim inside of sunken ships ... to reach objectives. Things would get even more complex when those sunken ships had hostile Foes inside of them that needed to be dispatched. Needless to say, the complication of needing to breathe made such engagements ... challenging.
That's a very big consideration. Underwater environments force Players out of their comfort zones, by forcing them to increase their situational awareness (to prevent drowning, if nothing else). Players tend to be LAZY and are always seeking the path of least resistance. For a lot of them, that basically comes down to shunning underwater content as being "too much of a hassle" to deal with compared to the above water content (where you can take breathing for granted).
I think that City of Titans could avoid the "your Powers are useless" underwater issue (even for Fire Powers!), but the simple fact of the matter that even BEING underwater requires more active thinking and anticipation on the part of the Player will lead a lot of people to shun underwater content. It's the path of least resistance problem and Player psychology at that point ... not the "worth" or even the cool factor of the content in the underwater environment.
Like I said, a LOT of games don't even develop underwater environments at all and simply sidestep the issue entirely by making all water in the world only 3 feet deep ... even the oceans. If Player's can't GO there then all you need is a way to swim (or run) on the surface of the water and you're done. Mind you, this is also the lazy way out for the Developers too ... but the investment to do underwater right is non-trivial.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I bought my nVidia GeForce GTX 560 Ti waaaaay back when... and its still running like a Champ!
But no DX11 support. or Does it? :|
The 3-D movement is indeed difficult to get into, since Guild Wars 2 has no follow hotkey. This made melee under water a little weird sometimes, because it is hard to estimate when you are close enough to hit an opponent.
And the skills that did not work were not the ones utilising fire, but those that requiered ground targeting.
One thing that I would like to see in incarnate type powers or rewards is that they not be theme specific. It would be nice if we could choose the animation to fit the theme of our characters. So if endgame content has these type of rewards it is important to me that it can be adjusted to fit concept.
I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right to not agree.
The 400 series did, and I checked. Your 560 Ti will work like a champ. It is rated by tomshardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html) as being in the same "tier" as the GTX 470, which is the recommended card for UE4. On the Radeon side, they recommend a 6870 or better.
Felix
Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
[color=#FF0000]Coding Lead[/color]
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm
If it's any consolation I'm running with a 6850 and 2 gigs less than recommended.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
forget the moon base...what I am interested in is the TITAN base! now that's a moon I think would be very appropriate for them to make a few zones on. imagine, the sky could have Saturn rotating around up there.... :)
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
In sufficiently low gravity, apply a zone wide debuff to Running Speed and give everyone a buff to Jump Height and Jump Distance. Presto! In low gravity it is now more convenient to bunny hop everywhere rather than walk/run.
After that, it's just a matter of building the Moon Base. What could go wrong?
You mean aside from the fact that the "kaiju" event for Moon Bases isn't a Giant Monster, but rather a Giant Asteroid?
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Low gravity does not slow you down, unless you're in a bad science fiction movie.
I searched for a while and couldn't find the article I was looking for
but here are a bunch of other articles about how life in space sucks monkey sacks.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19158_the-6-weirdest-dangers-space-travel.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_21369_6-ways-movies-get-space-wrong-by-astronaut-chris-hadfield.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_20580_5-everyday-things-that-go-totally-nuts-in-zero-gravity.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_18547_6-reasons-space-travel-will-always-suck.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_20644_6-reasons-life-in-space-sucks-that-sci-fi-doesnt-show-you.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_19649_6-myths-everyone-believes-about-space-thanks-to-movies.html
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
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