Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2
Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.
It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.
To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.
Sadly Elder Scrolls Online seem to have flopped here a reviewer who says much the same thing as I feel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4#t=1575
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
I've said it before and I'll say it again: people who want top of the line graphics should stick to single player games (or should perhaps learn Korean). Top of the line graphics require top of the line computers or otherwise they are wasted.[color=red]*[/color]
Lack of color? That is aesthetics and there I agree. The first video I saw of ESO game play made me realize that the aesthetics were not for me. The drabness reminded me far too much of Age of Conan.
The most damning criticism is the comment about the content feeling like it runs on rails. Ultimately this is why I felt a disconnect from SWTOR: every world, rather than being open and expansive, was really nothing more than a tunnel that began at the spaceport and ran to the final encounter. Worse yet, it wasn't particularly well disguised (this was most likely exacerbated by the fact that they were trying to sell these relatively small areas as planets, or even a part of a planet).
As a side note, I find the hand-holding in many current MMOs to be excessive. I am not a fan of being forced to search an entire dungeon to find the item I need, which turns out to be all of six square pixels in size, but going so far as to tell me how many quests I have left in an area (which appears to be a feature in Wildstar) definitely goes too far.
[br]
[color=red]*[/color] The way I've had graphics in MMOs explained to me, a few years ago, is that a large part of the work done to render other players is done by the CPU. Thus, particularly in PvP and raids, a powerful CPU is more critical to good performance than a powerful GPU.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Having watched the video AND having played ESO since just before launch I feel qualified to make a few comments:
1) The guy doing the video is called Angry Joe. I'm not exactly expecting him to say much nice about the game and I wasn't surprised.
2) Anyone who has followed TES is well aware of the fact that their main quests are ALWAYS built like they're on rails! I experimented with a run-through of Oblivion and managed to finish the main questline before level 20. This in a game where you could achieve level 60 or higher. Sure, if you just follow along and do the quests laid out before you things will seem pretty dull. However I've had character that have gone back and forth between several points as they were doing quests.
3) Yes, the game is buggy. Every game is at launch and doubly so for MMOs. So far every bug I've encountered has been fixed within 3 days. If every game-developer waited for their games to be bug-free we'd never see anything...ever. I actually think it's been pretty smooth, especially after the manic crush of the first week.
4) Horses give you a 15% increase in speed, base. So if you ride there it'll take 8.5 minutes and if you run it's 10 minutes. Assuming you don't get sidetracked along the way by the HORDE of quests available. Hardly what I'd consider necessary. Are horses expensive? Yes they are...no argument.
5) Essentially the game HAS NO ECONOMY! Every merchant buys everything and never runs out of gold to buy with. However in choosing to not launch with an Auction House they have shot themselves in the foot somewhat. Oh, and gold-sellers abound. Very annoying.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
I personally haven't noticed this thing in Wildstar, although there *are* achievements for completing quest lines there. And yes, if you do use the achievements tracker, you can find out roughly how many quests there are in the game. But it only shows those that are *linked* towards an achievement, and not the others.
If you are referring to the datachron (which is mainly for the *PATH* based quests), then yes, it will tell you that there are "x number that you have found and yet to do". (or for datacubes how many you have yet to find). The lore as well gives you more information, but it sure as hell doesn't necessarily tell you *where* in the zone they are, but only that you are missing X out of Y (it doesn't even necessarily tell you which ones you are missing if it is part of a series to complete a lore section).
But I have no idea as to how many quests there in a certain zone *entirely*.
RIFT wasn't, they got it pretty much right, if you don't dash for cash too early and actually run a long enough alpha/beta, you can avoid it. In early beta it was better than many games at launch.
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team and Forum Moderator[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Just out of curiosity, what condition was CoH in at launch? (I didn't discover it till the following year.)
Spurn all ye kindle.
CoH was largely heralded by the industry as a model launch.
Granted, the industry had suffered through some absolutely nightmarish launches the years before CoH, but I recall this was one of the things that stood out with reviewers. Maybe the predecessors just lowered the bar a lot.
Granted, it wasn't flawless- I recall the lamentations of the "purple patch" but that was a few months before my time.
TESO just wasn't for me. I liked the world style, for the most part, but I have to admit that the character costumes in the creator were a major turn-off. The game let you preview both the starting outfits and the ones that would be available at the endgame, and to be honest, it made me never want to advance past the start of play. I should have expected it-- I've played through enough Elder Scrolls games to see what the "top-level" daedric armor looks like, and it made sense to theme the armors similarly, but I always hated it. The thing that MADE the Elder Scrolls so appealing for me was always the moddability- daedric armor never bothered me because I modded it away and added appearances that I liked. You can't really do that to any significant level in MMOs.
The "running on rails" part? I've learned to tune that out from the Elder Scrolls series- or anything of bethesda's- the main quest always has such an urgency to it that you feel like a little idiotic running sidequests: "Sure, we have this oblivion gate opened right outside of town and we've already seen one city destroyed by similar invasions, but I can help you find that stolen painting." Of course, when you DO break off rails, you usually find an incredibly vast world ( with incredibly shallow experiences) around you.
That was another part that tuned me out- the over-arching metastory. I know I'm an outlier. I come from a time when I wanted to create my OWN character and his own backstory. I don't want to be a damned "destined one" or be someone once possessed by the soul of an ancient demon or someone sacrificially slain, then escaped from the realm of the dead. I don't want to chase down the same old storyline as every other smuggler or bounty hunter goes down- I want to forge my own backstory and have that character have a vastly different experience than others based on where I decided to go and what I decided to do. I understand and accept that some people want the story told TO them, but I wish devs would make it easier to IGNORE these over-arching meta-tales for those of us that do want to make characters that come alive OUR OWN way.
I wish TESO devs the best- there's certain to be a niche out there for it, but it wasn't going to work for me.
I've been playing ESO semi-causally since it launched (my main is now level 21) and it does have its share of bugs (which are being fixed) and design issues. But honestly I don't think it's quite as bad as the "Angry" reviewer would have us believe.
The main gripe I have with it is that it's really just a single player game badly ported to the MMO format. Obviously it's based on all the arguably great Elder Scrolls games that came before it but can't avoid making you feel that the PvE teaming and PvP was just "tacked on" almost as an afterthought. If you tend to be a "soloer" in MMOs this game would be perfect for you - based on what I've seen you could probably play around 98% of this game without teaming and the other 2% isn't critical for finishing the game. It's pretty much the most solo-oriented MMO I've ever played.
Now to be clear I'm not strictly against soloing MMOs. It just makes you have to think hard if you really want to pay a subscription fee to play an effectively single-player game. TBH I haven't really given the PvP parts of the game a serious try yet so those elements might ultimately make a long term subscription worthwhile. Otherwise if actually playing with "other players" is remotely important to you then this might not be your MMO of choice.
I went into this one knowing that it would never match something like CoH in terms of costuming. As a "fantasy-based" MMO pretty much everyone is running around in some type of armor so people looking pretty identical sort of comes with the territory. To its credit the game let's you craft armor pieces and weapons in up to roughly a dozen different racial styles and with a little mix-n-match creativity you can come up with some relatively unique looks.
I've never let a game's "main story" interfere too much with what I wanted to do or when I wanted to do it. Yes technically every player in ESO is cast as the "main character" in the struggle for the entire world but again I see that as the game once again sticking a little too close to its single-player roots. Ideally they could have dropped that pretense completely (or made it much more optional) but it is what it is.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Lothic, so if I understand what you're saying:
Your high-level armor isn't confined by art style or faction? I could, for example, craft armor styled for Nodic people as a Breton and use the appearance of armor early-in-the game as my look the whole way through? I don't have to go all spikey-shiny-ridiculous as the character previews show?
Between that, and your note that it may be more solo friendly than I was led to believe, I might just still decide its worth a visit ... after my PC gets its long-delayed upgrade.
TESO isn't the first to really hammer home the metastory element. Age of Conan eventually let you opt out of the entire story arc related to the demon possession, etc, IIRC, but I've seen quite a few games that bring this kind of thing to the fore. The explanation is that much of the maket expects it and gets turned off if it isn't there. It's accomodate them or lose them. Those that don't like it and would rather use their imagination to create their own stories are also creative enough to retcon out experienes that don't fit their character story, so they need less accomodation.
ESO does not restrict you to only one racial/factional style for crafting. You start the game knowing only how to craft your own race's style as a default, but you can find "racial motif" books which will unlock all the other playable races' styles (including a few extra special NPC ones). Granted the motif books are relatively rare drops (after my 21 levels I've only found roughly half of them) but people are constantly selling them in zone chat so you could get any style you're interested in relatively easily one way or the other.
If you wanted you could craft every piece of armor (helmet, chest, legs, shoulders, etc.) in different styles to come up with something crazy. I currently use bits of three different styles that match up well and it looks pretty good that way.
Oh and in case you're wondering the game seems to be geared towards crafted items being better than found ones. This means that in the long run your "uber top level" gear will likely be crafted, which automatically means you don't have to be stuck with styles you don't like.
This game is not merely "solo-friendly" - it seriously screams "I'm a single player game which just happens to have other players running around in the background". There have only been a couple of dungeons I needed to jump on PUG teams (for like five minutes at a time) to finish, and TBH if I had bothered to wait a few levels I probably could have come back and soloed them too if I wanted.
As far as I can tell you don't have to finish the "main story" to get to the end of the game. Plenty of people raced to the endgame PvP ASAP so it doesn't seem like they were forced to do any specific PvE to get there. So just because this game has a "main storyline" it doesn't seem strictly mandatory to do it. Frankly I'm just doing it just as another steady source of quests for XP - not because I HAVE to do it at any given time.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
In the End game of ESO you do need to do the main story to get to the other areas to level up Veteran points. If you don't you have two options, grind through Veteran dungeons or pvping, which will take forever because the most I've seen you get 24 Vp a kill (usually 1-4 vp) In a sense it is built for each area or zone quest grind (if you do all the quest in that zone), you are supposed to get the total amount of xp for 1 Vet level (most of the time it does come short making you grind mobs or dungeons.) For me it just felt more of a chore because the leveling was so linear and there was no alternative. I think that was what was appealing about CoX, There were so many mission givers and even if you run 10 alts, you can have 10 different mission paths to each 50. (Though the incarnates was grind, but for some reason that was fun compare to ESO grinds)
I did have fun playing the beta of ESO it was alright. Not bad, not good either just alright. For an MMO well key features fell flat like the grouping/teaming the Looting of drops and chests. Is it a good game I would say it alright, is it worth the 60 + 15 a month not for me. I didn't have as much fun as I do in Skyrim. Kind of felt they took an Elderscrolls game and smashed and trimmed it till it fit a MMO cookie cutter.
I did like the crafting my own gear and it was on par with what I found via drops. Like the weapons/armor/class system that allows for more customization then a traditional MMO. Don't like the Magic being tied to classes thought. In skyrim I play a Bosmer archer who uses a few spells to improve his sneaking stealth fight style. Detect Life to see what targets are ahead of me and so on. Not possible in ESO to have that magical freedom.
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
Well all I know is that I played CoH almost continuously for 8.5 years. By comparison I'd be amazed if I manage more than say 4-6 months with ESO. That should put it in perspective. Basically I'm really only playing it because it's enough like the earlier ES games to make it a good holdover for something else eventually.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think people have really high expectations, particularly with ESO coming on after the beauty/life changing experience we call Skyrim, and forget that it's quite a different challenge creating an MMO than a standalone game.
That is, however, one angry Joe.
Yeah I tend to think a vast majority of the "negativity" being leveled at ESO is the disappointment that it's not the vision of "Skyrim Online" everyone was hoping for. Again ESO is far from perfect, but it also isn't THAT bad either.
ESO actually serves as a good object lesson for the types of reaction CoT might suffer from once it goes live. I'm obviously looking forward to CoT and I'm hoping it'll do well, but no matter how good it is there's bound to be at least a vocal minority who'll criticize it because it's not going to be a 100% identical clone of CoH. There'll be people who'll hate everything "new/different" about it even if those differences turn out to be even better than what CoH provided. It's just human nature I guess.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
My biggest problem was that the grouping system sucked. I couldn't team up with my nephew because I was two levels higher and already done the mission he was on. That a key feature of a MMO teaming up with friends. Chat was alright, but was hard to figure out for me at first.
My point was it an alright game, just not a GOOD MMO.
-------------------------------------------
Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
I think the biggest problem is because they built up so much hype and released a game that was full of bugs. These were not small bugs, but game breaking bugs from hindering progression in various main quest (you would think if anything the main quest to run fine, but they don't) duping exploit that literally broke the economy in the first week, legions of bots teleporting around taking resource nodes, bots filled in public dungeons kill the boss before you can, the customer service reps. that try to RP with you but do nothing to actually fix your issue, and many other issues. With all these problems going on, I think what is leaving a more sour taste is they want you to pay 15 dollar a month for the current state of the game. If anything good that came from this, CoT can use ESO as a case study what not to do and what to look out for during an implementation.
I've run into a fair share of bugs or glitches in ESO. It certainly could have been "less buggy" at launch no doubt about it.
But one thing I've learned over the years that once again helped me with ESO is to simply have the patience to not rush through to the endgame of the game ASAP. For instance my ESO main is still only like level 22 and frankly by playing that slowly I have not seen ANY quest/game breaking bugs yet. Why you ask? Well the simple answer is that the worst bugs were fixed days or weeks BEFORE I even got to them. I heard about them, but never had to deal with them.
Now it should be noted that my "clever trick" for avoiding most of those huge bugs is just a trick. There is no good reason or excuse why anyone should have to play a game slowly just to give the Devs a chance to fix things before you get to them. But in practice it always seems to help.
I also heard lots of people had their accounts banned for abusing that duping exploit as well. Again by playing at a causal pace I was never really affected by any of that.
This was annoying, but even in the latest pending patch (being tested now) they have addressed many of these issues.
Yeah CS could always be better in games like this. But I believe the company's new to running a MMO so I'll cut them a little slack for that.
Considering that many of these things are or have been dealt with even before ANYONE had to pay their first $15 (after the initial 30 free days) it hardly seems fair to blindly blame the subscription model of ESO for these issues.
I think new Devs are always going to avoid as many bugs as possible, The main things I'd want MWM to pay attention to from this for CoT are the teaming issues and the avoidance of easily farmable bosses in public dungeons.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm not rushing the game. I play it normally. My end game is pvping so I don't listen to the quest, I just read the dialogue fast and go on. Still enjoyed the lore, but in pvp, more stats you have, the better equip you are. The assumption that you never seen the bugs is because people like me who go ahead bring up those problems. If there wasn't people who actually rush it little, then you would be facing the bugs too. I also believe I shouldn't have to play the game slowly to give the devs time to fix a game they launch live already when they are going to collect 15 dollars.
I'm not blaming the sub model. I would happy support a game 15 dollar a month to play the game. However, if you are going to charge 15 a month, your game better not have the major hickups it is currently plague with. Kind of counter productive if you want people to keep paying you and give them the current ESO. An analogy I used in the ESO forums was comparing ESO to any fast food joint for those who kept saying "this is a MMO, every MMO has these problems". If you go an buy a burger for 5 dollars, and the burger comes out under cook do you just say, "oh this is a fast food joint, it is expected" and willing eat the under cooked burger, or do you complain to the manager and then use the power of your wallet to voice your concern by not supporting that organization until they get their act together. In the long run I do think subbing is good, not just because you are supporting for constant new content in the game you are playing, but usally in the long run p2p features will cost more than 15 dollars a month (though some people like this model better because they can just pick and choose which content they want) There was no justification on my mind to keep giving ZOS my money to play beta. That's just me.
On another topic, sad thing about the duping, they shut down one method and two more came out. Really hurts the drive to try and get stuff legit when you see broken Vamp DKs V10 with all dupe gear.
Obviously my "play casually to avoid most of the big bugs" maneuver relies on other people playing through the content ASAP. But you know as well as I do there'll always be people who'll max out of any game within roughly 9 milliseconds after a game launches regardless of what I say or do about it. Based on that there will always be other people (like you, perhaps unfortunately) running into and reporting the big bugs like that ASAP. I have absolutely no problem with other people taking the bug-reporting glory for those situations.
Again there's no excuse for ANY game to have game-breaking bugs regardless if it's F2P or P2P.
My time playing a game is always worth far more than whether I'm paying $0.00 an hour to play (F2P) or maybe $0.10 an hour to play (price of a subscription averaged over the number of hours I play in a month). The subscription based model of ESO has NO RELEVANCE in this matter unless you let it personally bother you more than it would in a F2P game. To me I see no significant difference between F2P and P2P play in this regard.
Sure bad things happen and people will always try to exploit what they can get away with. It happened to various degrees even in CoH. In fact the main reason PvP base raiding never really worked was that there was a mission completion exploit (the Devs could never figure out how to fix) related to SG members during raids that let people click their way to level 50 in just a few minutes.
So sure stuff like that is depressing but again it's mostly in how much you let it affect you - I'm willing to accept the possibility that certain things about MMOs might not bother me as much as they might bother other people. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think we both can agree the sub is a non issue and the issue of f2p or p2p isn't in the argument (Don't know where that came in because I never complained about p2p/f2p issues.) The issue that I take with this game is after the 30 day expires and you will want you to start paying 15, all that I have listed that is really broken (not small bugs because small bugs can be fix with a work around by major game effecting bugs/problems ranging from PvE progression/PvP/Economy/CSR/etc still has not been addressed.) It is not that it would personally bother me than it would a f2p game. Like you said there is no excuse for game breaking bugs, and on that notion I am not willing to pay 15 to beta test a game instead of just play the game for it's entertainment value. That is where I take issue. Summarize, small bugs no problem paying 15, massive game breaking bugs that haven't been addressed by the time they want you to pay 15 dollars, that's where I decide not to pay them the 15 until they correct the issues.
The only reason I included F2P games in this conversation is when you consider the full subset of F2P and P2P games together that's pretty much EVERY game out there. Thus my greater point that pretty much EVERY game (regardless if you pay for it or not) has bugs and there's still no excuse for ANY game (regardless if you pay for it or not) to have game-breaking bugs.
I see no significant difference between the lack of desire to want to serve in the role of "unpaid beta tester" for EITHER a game you're not paying for (F2P) or a game you're paying for (P2P). The fact that you're stressing the point that ESO is a subscription based game seems to imply that it's somehow a "worse" scenario to your mind than if it were a F2P. Would you actually continue to play a game that annoyed you with bugs if it were F2P just because it's not P2P? Would you somehow be more tolerant of its failures and less upset about wasting your time if it was F2P? Why?
Bottomline if you think a game like ESO is a lost cause and will always be too buggy to play then stop playing it, period. But don't fall back on the idea that you're entitled to expect more of a P2P game than a F2P game in this regard just because you're "paying" for it. Choosing to stop paying your subscription fee to ESO a few days/weeks after launch doesn't "punish" the Devs or "send a message" that you're upset and that they better hurry up with their bug fixes - all it does is reduce the amount of money they have available to work with on fixing the bugs you don't like in the first place. If enough people do it it’ll pretty much guarantee it'll take LONGER for the bug fixes to happen, if ever. Basically if you think "you'd love the game if they'd only fix the bugs" then pretty much the WORSE thing you can do is to stop supporting it with your money.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I did stop play it. That is the why I am listing these issue, and again (don't know why you keep think this) I don't fall back on the idea I would expect more from a F2P over a P2P just because your paying for it. (seriously it's like you are trying to tell me why I am angry with this game because I feel a sense of entitlement when I never even said anything that may suggest anything in that ball park) The idea that isn't I'm sending a message to devs "hurry up or I will not pay" isn't the issue. This game wasn't made in a short time constraint. It took them five years in development prior to the announcement in May of 2012 up to the time April 2014 (7 years) to make this game. 7 years to at least get basics like their Main Quest to work right (forget all the other issues just the main quest). After all those year, this is the what is what the quality presented as release product. This is the path that EA takes, release a incomplete buggy game and then will let fix it latter just to show investor they met quarterly for investor (which really puzzles me because Zeni is a private held company and they do not have to answer to shareholders, why would they rush it out like EA) Again, after a month of no communication, RP CSR, and exploits and bots, there is no sense in throwing money at the problem when the problem (again stuff like Main Quest where you expect to be fine be it says in bold main quest) is not being resolved.
ESO currently isn't a situation where you will say I'm going to not pay my car payments because there is a chip in the paint, this situation is where the car I bought transmission stop working 10 miles in, but they want me keep making payments while having a lemon of a car until they fix it. It is expected that the transmission doesn't give out within 10 miles and it is a given that basic function of a game should be working as intended, not broken to the point it hinders progression. Again, nothing to do with P2P/F2P (don't know why you keep bringing this as a basis of your argument), it is about the initial quality and what you expect to work when purchasing a product.
Rift was like COH - it was, not a fluke, but an anomaly. The bugs were not huge, and the servers pretty steady. I'd say their one true launch mistake was the number of servers - after the launch swell died, it was too many.
ESO's launch was more... traditional? My experience was fairly smooth, and still is. However some of the bugs that cropped up were HUGE and those who got hit were hit hard.
That and they are finally getting a hang on their bot/spam problem.
Again (again) the only reason I brought up the F2P/P2P issue is that you were the one complaining about the "subscription" aspect to this. That's a discussion about whether or not you're "paying money" for it after all. *shrugs*
Ultimately I'm sorry you seemed to have such a disappointing experience with ESO. I agree completely that for a game that's been in development as long as ESO has it's inexcusable for there to be ANY game-halting bugs. That said all I can do is relate to you my latest current experience with ESO. My main is now level 37 and all I can say is that I've YET to see any game-breaking bugs, period. Sure I've seen a few obvious minor bugs, and after maybe a hundred hours of play I've had to log/relog a few times to fix "phasing" problems with a couple of quests. But frankly when I compare what you've written to my experience I've probably only seen maybe 5% of the problems you did.
Again I agree it sucks that after years of development there were (apparently) so many launch time bugs. They have applied at least 6-8 patches that I'm aware of since it launched a month ago - perhaps that caught many of the things you saw?
Better luck next time, I guess.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
When did I ever complain about the model? My second post to this thread was it leaves a sour taste with ZOS wanting 15 dollars a month for the game in its current state of a incomplete game and all the following threads is also about having to pay 15 dollars for the same reason. Is that really complaining about the sub model? (In other words am I comparing F2P/P2P or are you interjecting those notions to back your own narrative?) Like an example in the other thread I made, they want you to pay to have access to an incomplete product. I'll use car example again, you buy a car, it has no battery, and CSR stiffs you for a month, but the car company expects you to make your first payment. Will you be willing pay for that car?
Time again and again I stated I wouldn't mind paying 15 a month for a quality game. When did I complain about actually paying the 15 sub? I even gave a reason for advocating a sub model that it is cheaper in the long ( Quote me please to back your statement that I actually complained about F2P/P2P.) Again, it's about the expectation of the initial product when you take all things consider (development time, capital, etc)
You know, if you want to equate initial quality with F2P/P2P issues to give you a piece of mind, who am I to take that away from you.
I've actually been attempting to "steer clear" of the whole "payment" aspect of this discussion and talk more about the game itself. You'll note that the bulk of my last post(s) didn't even have anything to do with "payment" and that you only bothered to quote the small portion of it that did. You were the one who initially talked about being especially annoyed about having to "pay" for an ESO subscription for whatever reason. I'm simply questioning why that fact was important to mention especially in light of the fact that I haven't had anywhere near the kind of "trouble" you seemed to have had.
Once again I'm sorry you had problems with the game. I'm simply having difficulty accepting the notion that your negative experience with it was/is ubiquitous among the playerbase.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I've played ESO since the early release. Is it perfect? No...but it's damned fun IMHO and it'll go a long way towards scratching the MMO itch until CoT launches
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
Since there seem to be quite a few people that are not familiar with Angry Joe, here is a link to a game that he liked when he reviewed it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-_06Acj8Y
My two cents on ESO:
I played it for about 2 hours during a beta event. 2 hours. That's all I could stand. In that 2 hour window I couldn't help but notice that many of the core systems (like grouping, aesthetics, character building, etc...) seemed to be moving in a direction that I found... unappealing. I realize that it was still in beta at the time, but I simply lost the desire to play it.
I remember Atlas Park having well over 100 instances.
__________________
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/a72b7fba-8da2-4ac8-8e18-0f8453f7d3ee_zpscc5b27b5.jpg[/IMG]
The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.