Don't let SG bases look like ghost towns!

87 posts / 0 new
Last post
Blue Ox
Blue Ox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 22:27
Don't let SG bases look like ghost towns!

One of the things that bugged me about my SG base in CoX was that it always looked like a ghost town when I was in there. My SG was an active one with lots of members, but only very, very rarely did I run into anyone while I was there. Most of the time it was just a huge, lonely place. It certainly didn't feel like a place where heroes (or villains) were hanging out.

I'd always thought it would be cool if players could set their character to appear in the base when they logged out. He/she would appear there hanging out doing something like sitting with their feet up watching TV, or at the controls of some computer, or reading the newspaper, etc.

I'd love it if I could check some list of things they could appear to be doing, and the image was randomly generated from the items I checked. Players could pick the things they wanted their character to appear to be doing when others passed through the base. For example, Captain Whiz-Bang is a workaholic who wouldn't be caught dead with his feet up watching TV so that option is left unchecked. But he would always be at some terminal, or repairing some piece of equipment working away.

It would further add to the sense that others were there if players could set up something(s) to "say" when the logged in player walked past. It would be great if each checked pose had it's own dialog:

For example, when Captain Whiz-Bang appears working at the chemistry counter he says over his shoulder "Hey, , hand me that packet of Mygnyl Chorts."

Of course, not every object could have a "pose and phrase", but certain special pieces of equipment or rare objects would be more than just static objects.

Some fairly obvious objects I thought of:

- A chalk or dry erase board with formulas all over it, and the PC appears studying it intently.

- Couch and the PC appears passed out snoring.

- Chem lab table as above

- Chair and the PC is seated and reading a book or magazine.

- Vehicle (car or van) and the PC appears under it (just legs sticking out)

- Computer terminal and PC appears typing away.

- PC appears leaning against the wall sipping a beverage.

- PC appears standing, reading the newspaper (sound familiar?)

??? Maybe the image would only appear if the player logged the character out in the base, and to encourage players to do this, you got a minor, temporary random buff for logging your character out in the base.

I am not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination, so I don't know if the above would be super hard/time consuming to do. What do y'all think?

Virtue Server - Most Played:

BLUE SIDE..................RED SIDE
Blue Ox......................Gravity Thief
Earth Angel................Hell's Belle
Plutonium Blonde...Slime-Thing

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
It probably wouldn't be very

It probably wouldn't be very hard to have logged out characters simply appear in SG bases just walking around randomly like they were standard NPCs. The hard part of your idea would be having them emoting with things that are in the base. This would require a bunch of emotes that were "linked" with NPC models so that they could look like they were actually touching or interacting with physical objects around them.

But assuming they could overcome the emote problem then we'd probably have to accept that they would do these emotes randomly based on whatever objects you placed in your base. The idea of setting up a "checklist" of emotes we did or didn't want them to do would be fairly problematic considering that list might grow to be hundreds of choices long and could always change based on new emotes being added to the game. They could probably let our NPC'd alts have one generic "logged off" dialog message, but again the idea of having multiple messages linked to specific emotes probably wouldn't happen.

One other possible problem with this might be that it could ironically overcrowd a SG base with too many NPCs. Let's say you have a fairly full SG roster (over 100+ members) but a relatively small sized base. You could find yourself faced with scores of NPC cluttering your limited hallways.

So I'm not saying your general idea is impossible - just pointing out there would need to be a lot of work done to make sure it was handled properly.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Oh man ... if I could have

Oh man ... if I could have done this in City of Heroes with my SG Base(s) ...

The main thing causing the "Vast Empty" feeling in SG Bases was the simple fact that ONLY PLAYERS were ever seen in them, and they were rarely used as hangouts (so Players were rarely there). The solution to that problem, of course, is to allow the placement of NPCs into the Base so as to have a "staff" of people working there so the place feels lived in. There are essentially two ways to go about doing this.

One is to have variations of placed items which add an NPC to the item so as to offer the option of having an NPC be associated with a specific item. So you'd have the option for a Water Cooler ...

... which is either the Water Cooler all by itself with no one there ... or ... the Water Cooler with an NPC standing beside it do the Drink emote. This would be an immobile NPC, and all they do is stand there and emote.

The other option would be to "lay trails" through the base (which would be invisible when out of Edit Mode) that NPCs would follow to walk around inside the Base, allowing "people" to move around and circulate through the areas of the Base in a way that could appear to be purposeful. That way you don't have NPCs walking around doing a "Roomba" because they're just randomly pathing all over the place. So the Base Editor would allow you to design "traffic patterns" for NPCs to use inside your Base.

One of the things I always wanted to do with my Bases in City of Heroes was to have NPCs spawn in at the Entry Portal and perhaps walk to one of the Telepads and use it to leave the Base. Or have an NPC in the Control Room who circulated around between the various Control Items, occasionally stopping to do the Clipboard emote or look like they were interacting with the Control Systems. Have an NPC who walked back and forth between a couple of Whiteboards, stopping to do the Calculate emote in front of them. Stuff like that which would give the SG Base a sense of LIFE to it beyond just putting PLANTS everywhere.

Now, this sort of thing SOUNDS easy to explain and talk about, but I'm sure the programming involved in making it happen (seamlessly) could get very ugly, very fast, in the case of mobile NPC pathing trails (in part simply because it's another thing to keep track of and another thing that could break in some very unhelpful ways). The static emoting NPCs would be a lot simpler, since they would basically "come with" the item being placed and stay with it as a "part" of the item. With the static NPCs, you can reuse a lot of coding and art, making those variations relatively simple.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Oh man ... if I could have done this in City of Heroes with my SG Base(s) ...

Yeah it was a pretty common suggestion for CoH to have "normal" NPCs (as in not NPCs that were actually offline PCs) be added to SG bases. Your idea of having objects with built-in NPCs interacting with them would be one relatively easy way to get around the emoting problems.

If the Devs couldn't get fancy enough to give us "lay trails" to define NPC movement maybe they could at least allow us to define specific rooms that a given NPC could or could not enter. This way you could have for instance a "generic clipboard" NPC who would always stay in your power room and not wander off to any other part of the base. This could also allow you to have places in your base that would remain NPC-free if you so desired (like a personal bedroom space). And this could also be used for offline PCs (like with Blue Ox's original idea) so that a NPC version of your character could be set up to appear in a predefined room of your base just "hanging out".

As with many ideas I don't think the Devs need to push to get something like this working on Launch Day. But hopefully the way they design bases in this game will make it easier to add this kind of thing as the game matures.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fire Away
Fire Away's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 09:05
Bases were ghost towns

Bases were ghost towns because they had very limited functional value to the rank and file SG member whose hard earned prestige created them (just storage, occasional rez and teleport). The ultimate irony was the mission computer that never handed out missions hereoside except CoP. Make bases the one stop convenience for everything players want to do in the game (level up, tailor, respec, get missions, etc.). Add NPC shopkeepers to the mix. Heck you can even have NPC foes in specified areas for training purposes or to defend that area from "base attack". Consider this another spitball idea... not an at launch demand.

Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
Fire Away wrote:
Fire Away wrote:

Bases were ghost towns because they had very limited functional value to the rank and file SG member whose hard earned prestige created them (just storage, occasional rez and teleport). The ultimate irony was the mission computer that never handed out missions hereoside except CoP. Make bases the one stop convenience for everything players want to do in the game (level up, tailor, respect, get missions, etc.). Add NPC shopkeepers to the mix. Heck you can even have NPC foes in specified areas for training purposes or to defend that area from "base attack". Consider this another spitball idea... not an at launch demand.

Yeah...Bases could be WAY more fun and functional. As much as I enjoyed seeing others at the Icon store, I would MUCH rather see them in the Base doing things.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fire Away wrote:
Fire Away wrote:

Bases were ghost towns because they had very limited functional value to the rank and file SG member whose hard earned prestige created them (just storage, occasional rez and teleport). The ultimate irony was the mission computer that never handed out missions hereoside. Make bases the one stop convenience for everything players want to do in the game (level up, tailor, respect, get missions, etc.). Add NPC shopkeepers to the mix. Heck you can even have NPC foes in specified areas for training purposes or to defend that area from "base attack". Consider this another spitball idea... not an at launch demand.

Comicsluvr wrote:

Yeah...Bases could be WAY more fun and functional. As much as I enjoyed seeing others at the Icon store, I would MUCH rather see them in the Base doing things.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that when the Devs of CoH first introduced SG bases they envisioned their primary purpose as places to host SG base raiding. The idea that they could be used for PvE support or have "functional value" beyond PvP was a very far secondary concern. So when the whole SG raid system fell flat the Devs never really had the will or ability to "pull a 180" and fully reorient SG bases to be as useful for PvE as they might have been had they been purpose-built for it in the beginning. So yes if SG bases in CoT are made more useful for PvE then that by itself might solve some of the "ghost town" issue.

Still I hope that some kind of NPC system eventually gets made for both SG and personal bases in CoT. It would add "life" to a base regardless of how many live PCs are there at any given time.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fire Away
Fire Away's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 09:05
This is a subject that is

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. Did you know that the desire to make bases more "fun and functional" was at one time a direct quote I heard a lead dev once say in person in public? I took him at his word. So I would not say they never had the "will" to do this. Now when it comes to lack of "ability" that later led to a lack of "will" Houston, we have a problem. The situation was so bad that the time it took to fix a teleporter beacon with an incorrect graphic (even after a player pointed out the specific area of code that needed correction) was measured in terms of years.

My point here is much info (hundreds of pages worth) of suggestions to make bases better (including the ghost town issue) has been written. Now as to what makes it into this game...that's an unknown. I'm just trying to keep my emotional and expectation levels at a manageable level this time around.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fire Away wrote:
Fire Away wrote:

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. Did you know that the desire to make bases more "fun and functional" was at one time a direct quote I heard a lead dev once say in person in public? I took him at his word. So I would not say they never had the "will" to do this. Now when it comes to lack of "ability" that later led to a lack of "will" Houston, we have a problem. The situation was so bad that the time it took to fix a teleporter beacon with an incorrect graphic (even after a player pointed out the specific area of code that needed correction) was measured in terms of years.
My point here is much info (hundreds of pages worth) of suggestions to make bases better (including the ghost town issue) have been written to make bases better. Now as to with makes it into this game...that's an unknown. I'm just trying to keep my emotional and expectation levels at a manageable level this time around.

Not to quibble too much but I sort of think there's a difference between the standard boilerplate DevSpeak of "sure we'd love to give you feature X, Y, and Z and we'll have them done as Soon™ as we can" versus an ACTUAL sense of will and desire on the Devs' part to admit to a real problem and fix it. If the "will" was there they would have eventually figured out the "ability" side of the equation.

Not trying to single out any of the CoH Dev staff directly but clearly they were collectively married far too long and hard to the whole failed SG raid system to be able to fully (and publicly) acknowledge it was a lost cause and accept the reality of the situation. Had the SG base raid system not been such a spectacularly embarrassing failure they might have been more motivated to sift through the rubble and do more for the PvE features the playerbase wanted in the later years of the game.

At least if nothing else CoT provides the opportunity for a clean slate for this. Let's hope the "lessons learned" find their way to this new game.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fire Away
Fire Away's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 09:05
I can't argue with anything

I can't argue with anything you just said Lothic. The problem I am having now is how much intellectual capital I (or any player for that matter) should devote to try and influence this aspect of this game. Are the kind of things the players are asking for here still too hard to do? To tell you the truth, I feel rather foolish for a history of "rants" about bases that had zero chance of amounting to positive change. Is this going to be any different or better of a situation? I hope so but I'm not really sure... and I'm an old geezer so time to me is important.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fire Away wrote:
Fire Away wrote:

I can't argue with anything you just said Lothic. The problem I am having now is how much intellectual capital I (or any player for that matter) should devote to try and influence this aspect of this game. Are the kind of things the players are asking for here still too hard to do? To tell you the truth, I feel rather foolish for a history of "rants" about bases that had zero chance of amounting to positive change. Is this going to be any different or better of a situation? I hope so but I'm not really sure... and I'm an old geezer so time to me is important.

Well it did take 18 months after CoH's launch before SG bases even existed, but I'm not sure how much that had to do with their attempt to get the PvP raid subsystem working versus the base builder GUI and Prestige portions of the system. Maybe if SG bases had been designed to be purely PvE oriented we would have gotten them much sooner in CoH. *shrugs*

The other thing to consider is the talk for CoT of having "individual player bases". Will these be a subset of a new SG base system or will these be standalone "hideouts" like in CO?

It's hard not to expect too much from all this on Day One but I still have high hopes that some decade one of these games will get it right. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
My base needs NPCs.. alot of

My base needs NPCs.. alot of them. I'm willing to buy NPCs individually from the cash shoppe in order to keep it populated with the neccesary "Supporting Characters"

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Blue Ox
Blue Ox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 22:27
I always thought that the

I always thought that the "front desk" at our base should have had a (hot) secretary to greet/screen those entering. ...Could have even been a (hot) robot secretary. ; )

As much as I like the idea of NPCs populating the base, I really would love to see my teammates hanging out there. If we could control what our characters said as others passed by, I can envision some really funny stuff, or just solid role playing, if you prefer. And it would function kind of like a personal "quote of the day" (in a sense).

Virtue Server - Most Played:

BLUE SIDE..................RED SIDE
Blue Ox......................Gravity Thief
Earth Angel................Hell's Belle
Plutonium Blonde...Slime-Thing

Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
The devs from CoH said many

The devs from CoH said many times after the closing how hacked up everything was. I have no doubt that Bases were the same. Will had nothing to do with it...it was a simple gain/loss problem...how much was the rebuild time worth? I can't knock them for giving us new and working stuff rather than trying to revive the dying Base system.

That's why we have to do it better this time...

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
RP! My base was never empty

RP! My base was never empty in CoH :p

Fire Away
Fire Away's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 09:05
Comicsluvr wrote:
Comicsluvr wrote:

The devs from CoH said many times after the closing how hacked up everything was. I have no doubt that Bases were the same. Will had nothing to do with it...it was a simple gain/loss problem...how much was the rebuild time worth? I can't knock them for giving us new and working stuff rather than trying to revive the dying Base system.
That's why we have to do it better this time...

The thing is there is a price you pay when you take this attitude and do these things. I do not think the price in terms of integrity and reputation are often fully considered. For example, you could argue that the closure of CoH was a simple gain/loss problem (let's not quibble over the marginal profitability the game had) and in the long run it was better to give players new and working games than a "hacked up" stale CoH. Look at the stink that caused.

Totally agree we have to do it much better this time.

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

RP! My base was never empty in CoH :p

I love roleplaying in combat personally. I tend to find what I *affectionately* call "playing house" RP is an afterthought when I have nothing better to do.

I love roleplayers and know no one expects to play as I do.. but this is why I sincerely hope bases are used for storytelling in combat. Adding NPCs this means I can have storylines of our personnel being captured or in a hospital without requiring that a player play that role.. and it's still combat/heroics based (because as I said I tend to dislike standing around and talking)

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Cavalier
Cavalier's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 4 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/24/2013 - 22:16
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Brand X wrote:
RP! My base was never empty in CoH :p

I love roleplaying in combat personally. I tend to find what I *affectionately* call "playing house" RP is an afterthought when I have nothing better to do.
I love roleplayers and know no one expects to play as I do.. but this is why I sincerely hope bases are used for storytelling in combat. Adding NPCs this means I can have storylines of our personnel being captured or in a hospital without requiring that a player play that role.. and it's still combat/heroics based (because as I said I tend to dislike standing around and talking)

Bases are also good for after action reports. I seem to remember Kontrol loving those in CO.

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Cavalier wrote:
Cavalier wrote:

<
Bases are also good for after action reports. I seem to remember Kontrol loving those in CO.

CAV! Yay you finally made it to CoT forums! Just for that I'm going to finish me drawing for you this Saturday! Yeah.. when the teammates start needing to log out you know I almost NEVER do missions without teaming so Kontrol (not me biensure) loved telling you all the things you did wrong. LOL

Crowd Control Enthusiast

robopez
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 18:42
Having my alts occupy the

Having my alts occupy the base when I'm not actively playing them, saying and doings things?

This is hands down one of the coolest suggestions I have heard on these forums.

grouchyguy
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 17:32
I want all my alts to be

I want all my alts to be passed out under tables, surrounded by empty bottles.

Even the robots.

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 26 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
Now I've got this Zoolander

Now I've got this Zoolander-esque vision of grouchy's heroes passed out after an orgy of hair styling.

... What?

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

WarBird
WarBird's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/17/2013 - 19:11
IF, and I know it's a big one

IF, and I know it's a big one, we can somehow get NPCs to populate our bases, What would they look like? What kind of options would we like? Personally, I'd love to have a (perhaps) scaled down version of the Character Creator to make custom workers like we had in the mission creator. I might be concerned about keeping the Teen rating if we get too many gimps and sex-slaves, though. ;D (You know they'd be out there.)

But even a list of generic sets (with maybe some color options?) might be a good start.

- Cover-alls/jump suits
- "military" BDUs/Flight suits
- Tactical/SWAT gear
- Simple spandex tights
- Togas/Greek chithons
- Medieval Monks
- Mage-type robes
- Imps/Demons
- Robots
- Ghosts/spirits

I could go on....

Blue Ox
Blue Ox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 22:27
Honestly, I am not that

Honestly, I am not that excited about the idea of a bunch of NPCs in the base. To me it doesn't feel right. Maybe a receptionist, and a Jarvis-type butler if you're into the Avengers mansion kind of thing, but I just don't like the idea of a bunch of normals wandering around the SG base.

Re: my idea of having logged out PCs images spawn around the base - I wish we could get some opinions from one of the folks doing the CoT programming as to how hard that would be. I'd be grateful for just an opinion. Not a promise, or even a "we might try it". Just an opinion based on what they know about programming and specifically how CoT is being put together.

Virtue Server - Most Played:

BLUE SIDE..................RED SIDE
Blue Ox......................Gravity Thief
Earth Angel................Hell's Belle
Plutonium Blonde...Slime-Thing

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
While your SG base you may

While your SG base you may not want to pay for many NPCs doesn't mean our (My SG) base is the same as yours. My particular SG is an entire agency full of administrative staff, trainers, generals, armory attendants, medics..

More options. And I recommend they sell these individually so players can get the amount they want.

- -

I don't mind the idea of your logged out PCs being in your personal base/personal room of a SG base, but the mechanics simply do not work the same when you're talking about a social zone with many different players having ownership of the space. Just because one of my SG mates has 23 alts doesn't mean I want to see them in the Supergroup.. or ANY logged out members of the Supergroup there.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
JayBezz wrote:
Blue Ox wrote:

Honestly, I am not that excited about the idea of a bunch of NPCs in the base. To me it doesn't feel right. Maybe a receptionist, and a Jarvis-type butler if you're into the Avengers mansion kind of thing, but I just don't like the idea of a bunch of normals wandering around the SG base.
Re: my idea of having logged out PCs images spawn around the base - I wish we could get some opinions from one of the folks doing the CoT programming as to how hard that would be. I'd be grateful for just an opinion. Not a promise, or even a "we might try it". Just an opinion based on what they know about programming and specifically how CoT is being put together.

JayBezz wrote:

While your SG base you may not want to pay for many NPCs doesn't mean our (My SG) base is the same as yours. My particular SG is an entire agency full of administrative staff, trainers, generals, armory attendants, medics..
More options. And I recommend they sell these individually so players can get the amount they want.
- -
I don't mind the idea of your logged out PCs being in your personal base/personal room of a SG base, but the mechanics simply do not work the same when you're talking about a social zone with many different players having ownership of the space. Just because one of my SG mates has 23 alts doesn't mean I want to see them in the Supergroup.. or ANY logged out members of the Supergroup there.

I'd assume for both of these concerns (the total number of NPCs in SG bases and the total number of logged out PCs in SG bases) that the top "star" ranked SG leader would have the ultimate say-so about how he/she wants to handle it.

I'd actually guess that the top total number of NPCs possible would be also be restricted by the current SG base size. That way you couldn't accidentally put a million NPCs in a base and make it impossible to move through. Thus the SG leader would likely be able to choose any number between zero NPCs and whatever the max allowable for the base size is.

As for logged out PCs again I'd think the SG leader could dictate any number between zero and a max number based on SG base size. The game itself could then randomly choose any subset of logged out members to become base NPCs from zero up to the total the SG leader specified at any given time.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Even in the purchased NPC

Even in the purchased NPC model I had assumed the control over how they are purchased and used in the base would be up to the leadership (and rules database for groups with multiple tiers).

How do you propose the system choose which logged out or Alt PCs will be shown at any given time when the "max" is set to a few? I predict players will be disappointed if their desired character is unavailable because of system randomization.

As with all decisions SG based I think they should be purchased by the SG, and have third party ownership by the SG itself, no individual person. Stars would get donated to the SG bank for SG bank rules and SG purchases, including SG NPCs. The NPC creator and leaders would then model the NPC in whatever manner fits the SG.

There's also the question of how are any NPCs in a base expected to perform? When talking about base raiding pvp (which sounds amazing) are the NPCs expected to stay out of combat? Will this satisfy the players? It may "feel" like pay to win otherwise. Of course I'd love to see them as combat NPCs because I expect them to fight back. Also SG Base population automatically makes smaller groups at a disadvantage for a system like that so NPCs can be used to ATTEMPT to balance that system out in combat.. and if someone wants to pay money for a "Stronghold" base, I say all the power to them it just adds to the challenge of storming it!

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
Looking at Wildstar, don't

Looking at Wildstar, don't they have reasons for people to stay in their bases? Make it so when logged in, you build up an XP or Credit Boost when inside the base. Not when logged off, but while logged in.

Gangrel
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 29 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/15/2013 - 15:14
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Looking at Wildstar, don't they have reasons for people to stay in their bases? Make it so when logged in, you build up an XP or Credit Boost when inside the base. Not when logged off, but while logged in.

you get a faster "Rest XP" increase compared to logging off in other places. And this bonus varies according to what you have in your place (even if it is hidden under a bed or something like that)

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

How do you propose the system choose which logged out or Alt PCs will be shown at any given time when the "max" is set to a few? I predict players will be disappointed if their desired character is unavailable because of system randomization.

As I implied having it be completely random would be far easier to implement than trying to come up with some kind of selection/scheduling/priority GUI system for it. This is only supposed to be a nice little QoL detail to add a little background life to a base not another mini-game designed to somehow allow characters to do specific meaningful activity and/or RP while you're -not- logged in.

Besides technically the only time a given alt would ever be a base NPC is when its player is not logged in so how often could a given player be "disappointed" to not see those characters in the base? If I'm actively playing alt ABC I'm not going to care much what alt XYZ is "doing" whether he/she is currently a base NPC or not.

JayBezz wrote:

There's also the question of how are any NPCs in a base expected to perform? When talking about base raiding pvp (which sounds amazing) are the NPCs expected to stay out of combat? Will this satisfy the players? It may "feel" like pay to win otherwise. Of course I'd love to see them as combat NPCs because I expect them to fight back. Also SG Base population automatically makes smaller groups at a disadvantage for a system like that so NPCs can be used to ATTEMPT to balance that system out in combat.. and if someone wants to pay money for a "Stronghold" base, I say all the power to them it just adds to the challenge of storming it!

Again I'd err on the side of simplicity so if CoT is actually going to attempt to allow SG base raiding that during a raid all the NPCs should disappear so that they can have no possible "influence" on the outcome of the PvP combat.

While your idea of having combat-oriented NPCs be used to balance out raiding teams is actually interesting I could see too many complications with that to make it worthwhile. Remember it was already hard enough to try to make SG base raiding work in CoH without adding the extra overhead of throwing a bunch of NPCs into that mix.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

How do you propose the system choose which logged out or Alt PCs will be shown at any given time when the "max" is set to a few? I predict players will be disappointed if their desired character is unavailable because of system randomization.

Two frighteningly easy steps.

Step One:
Alt PC that wants to optionally appear in SG Base when that Alt is logged off goes to SG Registrar while wearing the costume they want to be seen in. SG Registrar has an option to take a "snapshot" of the PC in their current costume, copying all of the relevant parameters for this specific Alt PC to record the current costume. This information can then be saved and used by a SG Base Editor. Alt PCs are permitted ONE costume snapshot.

Step Two:
Base Editor selects to place an Item that contains an NPC (which could actually be nothing more than the NPC all by themself). A menu option allows the Base Editor to choose a Generic NPC (random pick), a Civilian NPC, a Professional NPC (doctor, technician, magic abuser, hostage, etc.) or one of the snapshots of an Alt PC recorded at the SG Registrar. A second menu option allows the Base Editor to control the /emote (if any) that the NPC will "do" at their assigned (static) spot.

Done.

Key point being that you don't need the ACTUAL Alt PC to appear in the SG Base ... you just need an NPC that looks exactly like them to appear in the SG Base while that Alt PC is logged out. Record costume data at SG Registrar to make NPC copies of Alt PC available to Base Editor and ... problem substantially solved. If necessary, the entire thing can be exported to plain text files using an import/export parser for offline backups. It's just a matter of making Tab A fit into Slot B consistently and reliably. This really isn't that hard.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
I think Supergroups sould be

I think Supergroups sould be corporate entities in that they are completely seperated from the resources of the private hands.

The SG can have its own bank, own stars, own store etc that is only for SG members (decided by leadership). This means that the SG options are owned by the SG. The items like SG NPCs would not be purchasable from the personal *Store. You'd have to buy them from the Supergroup *Store. If you want personal NPCs in your personal hideout/room then you buy those from the personal *Store.

What's bought for the SG belongs to the SG. What's put in the SG belongs to the SG. Then the question arises of does your character likeness belong to the SG? In my opinion I do not want my character likeness to belong to the SG. The devs may decide otherwise but I hate the idea of someone RPing (or ERPing) with the likeness of my character without me there.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

The devs may decide otherwise but I hate the idea of someone RPing (or ERPing) with the likeness of my character without me there.

/em facepalms

If that's a problem for *YOU* ... then do not go to the SG Registrar and give a snapshot of your costume specs to the SG so that the Base Editor cannot use it to enable precisely the kind of situation you say you don't want.

The chain of Cause and Effect really isn't that hard to follow here with the system I laid out. If you, THE PLAYER, have to affirmatively and deliberately *GIVE* a copy of your likeness to the SG to use as an NPC in your SG Base when that specific character is offline (and still a member of the SG) ... then whose *fault* is it if such permission is granted to the SG Base Editor and it gets used?

If someone "inappropriately" does some RP (or as you cite, ERP) with your "offline avatar" in the SG Base ... and you object ... why are you either staying in that SG (because as soon as you leave the snapshot of your character used for this purpose will revert back to Generic NPC and stop being you) or not convincing your SG leadership to boot the offender who was "inappropriately" doing RP (or ERP) with your character's NPC likeness in the SG Base?

I mean, seriously. All it would take to prevent the situation you're describing is:

1. Don't do the snapshot in the first place.
2. Order the SG Registrar to delete the snapshot of YOUR character so it can't (continue to) be used.
3. Ask a Base Editor for the SG to remove your NPC avatar from the Base.
4. Ask the SG leadership to discipline the Player who engaged in the offensive conduct (which could mean kicking them out).
5. Quit the SG.

How many more ways do you need in order to feel like you have recourse against the scenario you described?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I think Supergroups sould be corporate entities in that they are completely seperated from the resources of the private hands.
The SG can have its own bank, own stars, own store etc that is only for SG members (decided by leadership). This means that the SG options are owned by the SG. The items like SG NPCs would not be purchasable from the personal *Store. You'd have to buy them from the Supergroup *Store. If you want personal NPCs in your personal hideout/room then you buy those from the personal *Store.
What's bought for the SG belongs to the SG. What's put in the SG belongs to the SG. Then the question arises of does your character likeness belong to the SG? In my opinion I do not want my character likeness to belong to the SG. The devs may decide otherwise but I hate the idea of someone RPing (or ERPing) with the likeness of my character without me there.

To be fair, while it may be difficult, players can always see your avatar running around, screenshot it and then replicate the character themselves. :p

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

To be fair, while it may be difficult, players can always see your avatar running around, screenshot it and then replicate the character themselves. :p

Not for the first year or four issues (whichever is longer).

I am talking about the "Logged out members as NPC" option. I just don't like it.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
There's a lot of things you

There's a lot of things you don't like, JayBezz. However, I think in this case your fears are more about people "being naughty" than they are about features that can potentially be misused. Any useful tool can be misused, simply because there's no such thing as foolproof ... merely fool resistant.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

JayBezz wrote:
The devs may decide otherwise but I hate the idea of someone RPing (or ERPing) with the likeness of my character without me there.
/em facepalms
If someone "inappropriately" does some RP (or as you cite, ERP) with your "offline avatar" in the SG Base ... and you object ... why are you either staying in that SG (because as soon as you leave the snapshot of your character used for this purpose will revert back to Generic NPC and stop being you) or not convincing your SG leadership to boot the offender who was "inappropriately" doing RP (or ERP) with your character's NPC likeness in the SG Base?

The idea that someone might try to "violate" an offline alt's base NPC with one-sided RP (or gods forbid ERP) is a laughably silly thing to be worried about. What would a hypothetical perpetrator do to your defenseless NPC image... execute a bunch of dirty frottage emotes against it? lol

But I guess we must now look at the bigger tragedy that's set to explode on us once the game goes live. Imagine how many people opted for the Immortalized Add-On Perk during the Kickstarter. All those defenseless holograms of heroes just standing there open for any perv to walk up and rub their naughty capes against. Oh the humanity...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
It's one thing to volunteer

It's one thing to volunteer your creation or likeness for in-game display. It is an entirely other thing altogether to put that power in the hands of another player or entity just for membership into the group.

And YES story matters to me and the members of my supergroup. We tell perpetual stories with our characters and the LAST thing I want is for them (players I know personally offline) to be in a position to use my character in their stories if I'm' not the story teller as it could make decisions about my character. And also this will greatly discourage us from inviting new people into base either for recruitment or just for social reasons. The entire purpose of the suggestion of "Base NPCs" was to have more avenues to tell story that you can't do with Players.

It gives enemy characters to use as leverage (kidnapping, etc). It creates allies that can be used to better define characters backstory and add to the in-game lore. I know my group is small and intimate and each of us uses only one primary character to tell our stories but what happens in a group with huge numbers? I don't want a story where my character is "captured" and turned into a story. I do want NPCs that can be used as plot devices but I do NOT want my character to be the plot device. If someone doesn't mind a story where their likeness is the NPC they still can make that character separately (and pay for it). There should be a strong difference between what a player's character is subject to and what a NPC is subject to.. the more blurred that line gets the more upset I will be as a storyteller.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

It's one thing to volunteer your creation or likeness for in-game display. It is an entirely other thing altogether to put that power in the hands of another player or entity just for membership into the group.
And YES story matters to me and the members of my supergroup. We tell perpetual stories with our characters and the LAST thing I want is for them (players I know personally offline) to be in a position to use my character in their stories if I'm' not the story teller as it could make decisions about my character. And also this will greatly discourage us from inviting new people into base either for recruitment or just for social reasons. The entire purpose of the suggestion of "Base NPCs" was to have more avenues to tell story that you can't do with Players.
It gives enemy characters to use as leverage (kidnapping, etc). It creates allies that can be used to better define characters backstory and add to the in-game lore. I know my group is small and intimate and each of us uses only one primary character to tell our stories but what happens in a group with huge numbers? I don't want a story where my character is "captured" and turned into a story. I do want NPCs that can be used as plot devices but I do NOT want my character to be the plot device. If someone doesn't mind a story where their likeness is the NPC they still can make that character separately (and pay for it). There should be a strong difference between what a player's character is subject to and what a NPC is subject to.. the more blurred that line gets the more upset I will be as a storyteller.

I would be absolutely amazed that if by some miracle we actually get the ability to put ANY kind of NPCs in our SG bases that the Devs of this game would FORCE players to accept that their offline alts had to be among them if they didn't want it. This kind of thing is virtually guaranteed to be OPTIONAL.

And if for some extremely improbable reason a character's membership in a SG depended on accepting that they had to willingly allow themselves to be an offline NPC in the SG's base so that somehow they could be molested by other members when they're not logged on then you could always laugh in that SG leader's face and find yourself another SG.

Really... the idea that this could even remotely be an issue to worry about is almost mindblowing.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Really... the idea that this could even remotely be an issue to worry about is almost mindblowing.

Yeah, well ... JayBezz has a tendency to overreact like this. It's really ... unfortunate ... since it makes it harder for me to take his complaints seriously.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Personal accusations aside, I

Personal accusations aside, I am stating where I draw the line. You draw the line somewhere else that's your opinion and its as valid as my opinion. I do not trust other people to make assumptions for me as to where any line should be drawn. It's foolish to expect other people to know your opinions when they remain unvoiced.

I'm sure members of my SG would have the best intentions and would use any likeness of my character with respect and the utmost intent to be respectful to my character. But they do not not the internal motivations of my character, and it is this against my principle of storytelling. If I am the type of player who leaves the game for a month and returns to it, the members of my Supergroup then have a entire month's worth of storyline involving my character that I am unaware of when I log back in. This is not the "worst case scenario" this is actually "expected behavior".

The design works just fine for a personal base as these are for personal storytelling but for any type of conglomerate storytelling it should be up to the DEVS to regulate players having inherent control over other players. Anyone who's done a tabletop RPG would understand this.

There are plenty of other "character molestation" scenarios that are possible that I also am concerned about. Character sovereignty is important to me. If it's not important to you then by all means voice your opinion. Why try to silence peoples' opinions? It's not a constructive form of negative reinforcement of an idea.

Attempts to invalidate my logos based on my ethos are transparent and frankly disappointing.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Why try to silence peoples' opinions?

If anyone WAS trying to "silence" you JayBezz, you might have a leg to stand on.
I have yet to see anyone telling you to (effectively) STFU ... or even just "shut up" ... or otherwise silence you.

You've stated your objections.
More than one person has told you that your objections are ridiculous and strain credulity to the breaking point.
You maintain that your objections are valid.
We retain the right to find that your objections are lacking in rationality and perspective, and are therefore not useful to us (or worthy of serious consideration).

We aren't telling you to be silent.
We are telling you that your arguments are sadly unconvincing.
There is a difference ... and I shouldn't have to explain it to you.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Mendicant
Mendicant's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/26/2013 - 11:27
What I see, JayBezz, is that

What I see, JayBezz, is that you have repeatedly ignored the parts where Blue Ox, Redlynne and Lothic stated that this feature, as described, would be OPTIONAL. That you, the player, would have to deliberately and specifically enable it for each character you wanted to show up while off-line, and if you did not want your characters to show up (which you obviously do not), then you would simply not enable them.

Even in the original post, Blue Ox specifically said if players could set their character to appear in the base. Set them to appear. Optional. Not mandatory.

I repeat. Optional. So complaining about it being mandatory makes no sense, save as an emotional overreaction.

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
The "option" would be up to

The "option" would be up to the SG leadership and not up to the lower tier SG members. This is where my issue of character sovereignty comes into play. Many characters are members of supergroups in which they have no leadership.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

We aren't telling you to be silent.
We are telling you that your arguments are sadly unconvincing.
There is a difference ... and I shouldn't have to explain it to you.

And I'm telling you that your negative reinforcement has no effect on the validity of my claim. We simply disagree. There is no "over-reaction" its simply a disagreement. And you characterization of me as an "overreactor" only exists to attack my ethos. Something that I refrain from doing for the most part.

If you have a problem with the "way I present my arguments" i simply suggest you keep it to yourself and argue the points presented, else wise you piss me off and I return your accusations in kind.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

The "option" would be up to the SG leadership and not up to the lower tier SG members. This is where my issue of character sovereignty comes into play. Many characters are members of supergroups in which they have no leadership.

As described in the OP, it would be up to the individual SG member to set his character to appear while the player is logged off, or not. I don't see how it could be more voluntary.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Millennium City Refugee
Foradain's Character Conclave

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

And I'm telling you that your negative reinforcement has no effect on the validity of my claim.

What validity?

You assert you have validity in making your claim.
Multiple people tell you that your claim is not credible and is quite frankly ridiculous and they tell you why.
You reassert the "validity" of your claim without ever addressing or respecting the points leveled against your claim.

At this point, it's fairly clear that you, JayBezz, are not only Not Listening but have no intention of engaging in a constructive argument. Only JayBezz's claims of validity are valid, and all other claims (that are contrary to JayBezz's claims) are attacks on JayBezz's character and therefore must cease and desist.

Um ... that's not how this works, if you want to be respected.

JayBezz wrote:

There is no "over-reaction" its simply a disagreement. And you characterization of me as an "overreactor" only exists to attack my ethos.

Your arguments have been found to be lacking and not credible by multiple people who have been paying attention. You're welcome to play the Victim Card as much as you like, but it isn't going to help you regain the credibility that you've lost by staking out an extreme position and then insisting that it isn't silly when pretty much everyone else has told you it is and told you why *repeatedly*.

JayBezz wrote:

If you have a problem with the "way I present my arguments" i simply suggest you keep it to yourself and argue the points presented, else wise you piss me off and I return your accusations in kind.

/em sigh

Hypocrisy doesn't help you any.
After *falsely* accusing others of telling you to shut up ... you turn around and tell me to shut up ... as if you don't have to live up to the standards you impose on (and demand from) others.

Yeah ... um ... wow ... there really isn't much left to say ... and a whole lot that's better left unsaid.

Have fun JayBezz.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

JayBezz wrote:
The "option" would be up to the SG leadership and not up to the lower tier SG members. This is where my issue of character sovereignty comes into play. Many characters are members of supergroups in which they have no leadership.

As described in the OP, it would be up to the individual SG member to set his character to appear while the player is logged off, or not. I don't see how it could be more voluntary.

This is not how I initially understood it. If this is the case (that it is up to the player, not the SG leadership) then I have no problem with it conceptually.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Mendicant
Mendicant's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/26/2013 - 11:27
JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

The "option" would be up to the SG leadership and not up to the lower tier SG members. This is where my issue of character sovereignty comes into play. Many characters are members of supergroups in which they have no leadership.

No, it was specifically and repeatedly stated that it was the individual player's option, not the SG leader or anyone else's. The only option that people were talking about giving the SG leader was how *many* offline PCs would be active at any one time. And that number would be drawn from the PCs that had, individually, allowed their character images to be used.

WraithTDK
WraithTDK's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/15/2014 - 17:59
Love this idea. It could be

Love this idea. It could be potentially weird from an RP standpoint; though.

"OK, team, time for the mission briefing. Intelligence reports that General Zane has been seen smuggling...uh...Raven? Raven...DARNIT NIGHT RAVEN, STOP MAKING SANDWHICHES WHILE I'M GIVING MISSION BRIEFINGS!"

:::Night Raven walks out nomming his sandwhich:::

So yea, some potential weirdities to figure out, but overall I love the concept.

Blue Ox
Blue Ox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 22:27
Yep Wraith, that would be

Yep Wraith, that would be kind of weird, but in theory the SG leader could simply access the base options and turn off the effect before the meeting.

Virtue Server - Most Played:

BLUE SIDE..................RED SIDE
Blue Ox......................Gravity Thief
Earth Angel................Hell's Belle
Plutonium Blonde...Slime-Thing

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Online
Last seen: 8 min 43 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
An even smarter Base Editor

An even smarter Base Editor would not have put Raven's offline NPC avatar into the meeting room making sandwiches.

Or to use one of my favorite catch phrases that seems far too applicable in this case:

Redlynne wrote:

"I'm not real good with Cause and Effect. Why is that?"


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Pengy
Pengy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/09/2013 - 10:40
It's only a problem if the SG

It's only a problem if the SG leader doesn't like sandwiches.

Segev
Segev's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 15:35
Took me a bit to read the

Took me a bit to read the whole thread, but there are some interesting thoughts in here. One that stands out to me, personally, is the comment that SG bases weren't "hangout" places as a general rule.

So, in order to not drop my own preconceptions in here and contaminate the sample, I'll ask without giving my own thoughts just yet: What elements of an SG base would make it more likely to be used as a "hangout?" I think a useful place to start would be analyzing what made the popular "hangout" locations in other MMOs popular for that purpose, and seeing what, if anything, would give SGs the same or - better - distinct advantages as such a locale. If we can make SG bases attractive for some hangout purposes and public places attractive for others, I think it would be a good dynamic to build.

Business Manager

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 26 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
In my case, ease of access

In my case, ease of access and utility tends to make out the places I'll visit most frequently. In my case, I'll tend to go wherever the vendors/trainers/etc. are in closest proximity. Admittedly I'm not much of one to hang out. If I'm online it's usually to play through missions and the like, rather than hang out and chat (and between channels and whispers it wouldn't matter where I was to do the chatting). Thus, for me, the only draw the base had was as a place with storage, crafting, and the teleporters.

Perhaps bases could be places where building can build/design missions, and allow other SG members to test them, before they're exported or sent to the 'main' mission architect. Go with the whole 'danger room' functionality.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
Allowing different rules for

Allowing different rules for different instances.

I hope to have the functionality to use the lobby of my SG base (which I do hope is rather large) as a public hub and then require access to go deeper into the actual supergroup area. Having separate permissions will let those who WANT to invite people to hang out there (for RP, for OOC chat, Trades, Contests etc) would go a long way toward this.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
While we're on the subject of

While we're on the subject of Base NPCs I think I just heard that our SG will be adopting a bulldog.

Make it so #1

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Lutan
Lutan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 02/02/2014 - 15:08
The main problem, why the

The main problem, why the bases were mostly empty, was that there was not much you could do in there. And of course you had no access to shops, trainers or tailors. People had no reason to go into the base, but a lot of things to do elsewhere.

Making trainers, shops, crafting tables etc. available in bases would be a good first step, but I think there needs to be something you would notbeable to get anywhere elselike unique minigames or special challenges. Even supergroup- TFs could be a thought worthy of persueing.

Citadel
Citadel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 6 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/11/2013 - 23:59
Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

The main problem, why the bases were mostly empty, was that there was not much you could do in there. And of course you had no access to shops, trainers or tailors. People had no reason to go into the base, but a lot of things to do elsewhere.
Making trainers, shops, crafting tables etc. available in bases would be a good first step, but I think there needs to be something you would notbeable to get anywhere elselike unique minigames or special challenges. Even supergroup- TFs could be a thought worthy of persueing.

Thats very true! If there was more to do in the SG bases we'd all have spent more time in them....

~ If your going through hell...Keep going!!! #Winston Churchill

Proud Citizen
Proud Citizen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 22 hours ago
kickstarter
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 16:11
I'm sure that having more

I'm sure that having more interactive equipment/items in the base (training dummies, recreational equipment) would encourage more people to hang out in the base but I know that kind of thing takes a lot more work on the programmers part so it may not be feasible.

Perhaps the option of building some type of 'Danger Room' training facility (maybe linked to leveling) would bring more members into the base?

charlieranger
charlieranger's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 19:46
Possibly mini games found

Possibly mini games found only inside SG bases. Possibly connected to world events.

ex. During the Halloween world event, SGs doing missions, instances, or general play, would get drops delivered to their SG base. Once the SG collects all the pieces, they can return to their base and assemble the pinball machine challenge. Once assembled, SG members can play and get some minor ingame bonuses(small insp, common crafting mats, minor credits, ect.) SG world standing would also bring minor, or possibly not so minor, bonuses or status payouts to SG members.

ex. While in SG mode, after the SG has defeated 10k apokalyptykult they unlock the button-press-hero-dance game. The game can be played solo or with a dance-off from 2-4 players.

Another suggestion similar to Proud Citizens, a training room where enemies the SG has already defeated, can be replayed. This would include instance bosses. Also possibly allowing world buildings to be "imaged" to allow planning of robberies, heists, raids, ect. I don't think there should be a regular payout of xp for this, also either no or a very minor death penalty.

These are just some ideas.

Lord Nightmare
Lord Nightmare's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 15:44
One idea is to be able to

One idea is to be able to place NPCs at will and keep them in the same animation loop (selectable of course). Adds some form of life and I know it'd be great for people who's bases would be tech labs or mystic sanctums. Like you'd have scientists working on computers or taking notes.. Or maybe some guys boxing... Or maybe a caster shooting at a wall... Or some crazy guys head banging.

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
For my personal base.. I'd

For my personal base.. I'd love the ability to use my Android Phone as a way to chat in-game with visitors.

Chat bubbles coming off of my character with my text as if I were in-game so that I can chat IC without breaking immersion.

(I'm trying to find as many ways to keep players engaged offline as they are when they log in)

Crowd Control Enthusiast

JayBezz
JayBezz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 14:54
For my personal base.. I'd

For my personal base.. I'd love the ability to use my Android Phone as a way to chat in-game with visitors.

Chat bubbles coming off of my character with my text as if I were in-game so that I can chat IC without breaking immersion.

(I'm trying to find as many ways to keep players engaged offline as they are when they log in)

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Proud Citizen
Proud Citizen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 22 hours ago
kickstarter
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 16:11
charlieranger wrote:
charlieranger wrote:

a training room where enemies the SG has already defeated, can be replayed. This would include instance bosses. Also possibly allowing world buildings to be "imaged" to allow planning of robberies, heists, raids, ect. I don't think there should be a regular payout of xp for this, also either no or a very minor death penalty.
These are just some ideas.

A very good idea! I hadn't even considered using a 'Danger Room' in this fashion.

If we simply want to try and get people spending more time in their SG's base then perhaps the option of access to the tailor through your base (via mission drop or bought with influence ect)? I suggest this as so many people have said that they spent hours on the COH costume creator alone. Or at least have some type of holographic display where you can try on different costume pieces. Granted, this may not be a catalyst for RP but at least you might get more people in the base.

MisterDude
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
Joined: 04/07/2014 - 17:23
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Fire Away wrote:
I can't argue with anything you just said Lothic. The problem I am having now is how much intellectual capital I (or any player for that matter) should devote to try and influence this aspect of this game. Are the kind of things the players are asking for here still too hard to do? To tell you the truth, I feel rather foolish for a history of "rants" about bases that had zero chance of amounting to positive change. Is this going to be any different or better of a situation? I hope so but I'm not really sure... and I'm an old geezer so time to me is important.

Well it did take 18 months after CoH's launch before SG bases even existed, but I'm not sure how much that had to do with their attempt to get the PvP raid subsystem working versus the base builder GUI and Prestige portions of the system. Maybe if SG bases had been designed to be purely PvE oriented we would have gotten them much sooner in CoH. *shrugs*
The other thing to consider is the talk for CoT of having "individual player bases". Will these be a subset of a new SG base system or will these be standalone "hideouts" like in CO?
It's hard not to expect too much from all this on Day One but I still have high hopes that some decade one of these games will get it right. ;)

You seem to be pretty convinced that the failures with getting the base raid system working was the predominant issue with making bases what you wanted them to be. Have you considered that the more likely option was that making editable bases was probably a very resource intensive process? There's potentially a ton of art needed for it, and 1000 ways a player can find to make things bug up, so the coding needs to be impeccable. CoH was purportedly very chaotically coded. Editable bases is really something that no MMO has done even a fraction of as extensively as CoH, and CoH had merely a fraction of the players of other MMOs, with a much smaller development team and budget to operate on. The raiding system was never as flawed as people made it out to be. Technically speaking it could have functioned fairly reasonably as it was. People already did raids/CoP on the test server from time to time, and aside from base raid balance issues (which received no development time anyways), they operated fine from the get-go.

I think the biggest hurdle to achieving what you and others would like to see out of bases is making the underlying system as elegant and simplistic as possible so that it is easy for the developers of CoT to mess around with them later on. Somebody mentioned how it took like a year or something to fix a messed up graphic on a teleporter...plus the devs have said how it would be difficult for anyone outside of that team to deal with the source code. Likely, it was just a mess to sort through. Base raids didn't get any development time either. Probably was as equally as chaotic to deal with as the rest of the base system.

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
Two suggestions come to mind

Two suggestions come to mind to mind.
One have the ability to summon a NPC invasion in the base. Size of invasion and drops have increased benefit equal to the number of people in the base
Two When determining in game currency costs for base features have a reduction equal based on the number of people in the base.

Volt3364
Volt3364's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/06/2014 - 17:38
Great ideas. It would be

Great ideas. It would be cool to see your alts running around the base.
I think SG bases should also have access to merchants, etc. ICON or whatever you're calling the tailor, etc.
I always thought a mission terminal with Martian Manhunter or some such manning the board was an obvious idea. Certainly a reason for players to hit the base for more than travel and storage.

nighmate
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/17/2014 - 22:43
one thing my sg base on cox

one thing my sg base on cox had was a medical room. I would have loved to see npcs working around the beds when a player spawned in there. I don't know how that it would work if when you went to the base after you died if you could spawn in the bed with nurses working on you instead of showing up in some kind of teleporter.

Superpersonage
Superpersonage's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/19/2014 - 17:34
I like that, and it harks

I like that, and it harks back to Redlynne's first comment in this thread, with the idea of a finite number of npcs attached to an appropriate object, but instead of attached to an object they could be attached to a particular type of room: medical personnel in the med bay; technicians in power generation, computer and telepad rooms; receptionists and security personnel in the entryway, possibly with some important-looking visitors waiting to be seen. The animations wouldn't have to be extensive, just wandering between waypoints about the room, checking off on a clipboard, holding up an object for examination, sitting impatiently in a chair, typing at a keyboard, talking on the phone, etc.

I'm not fond of the idea of offline placeholder avatars for the members, simply because it sidesteps the main issue that there isn't sufficient reason for players to hang out in the base. Plus, some players (and you know there will be some) may be confused by these and try to interact with them (you know it's going to happen, and then there will be complaints or demands in world chat that someone tell them why they can't communicate with the other members, etc.).

As for creating reasons to be in the base, maybe a PvP zone where members can spar with each other, or a special npc (purchasable) who mans a special terminal and dispenses random (radio-like) mishes whose difficulty is based on the number of members present in the base (there's your Martian Manhunter dude) whether or not they all participate. Perhaps these mishes reward items only useful to the SG or the base, rather than standard mission rewards. Access to the tailor and personal bank space is a feature of personal hideouts in CO, so there's an argument to include that here also. Merchants in an SG base? It's not the Watchtower from DCUO, it's a smaller more personal base for a (hopefully) tightly knit group of people; from the standpoint of convenience I get it, but from the standpoint of immersion it kind of eats. CoX had containers that allowed members to deposit excess enhancements, insps and mats which were free to take (assuming no restrictive member access settings), and I think that was sufficient.

I skimmed over the histrionic middle section of the thread, so if any of this has already been suggested, my apologies.

islandtrevor72
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/28/2014 - 11:24
Personally I loved base

Personally I loved base construction...spent weeks doing it...created waterfalls, lava pits, hanger bays (or at least as close to as I could.)
Players would come in and go....'neat... where is my stuff now?'

The biggest reason I think players didn't hang out in bases was the game itself is not in the bases. Missions, stores, trainers, ect ect ect none of it was in the base. Players had basically 2 reasons to go in the base (3 if you count just looking around for a few minutes). They went in for supplies and travel.

Putting NPC or offline character would help with the empty feeling but it would still be used primarily for those functions.

To make bases a more interesting location to hang out I think you need a lot more to do in them.
People pointed out things like minigames, pvp, missions, training, npcs.... all great ideas and would love them all to be included to some degree.

But I would also like to see missions that use your base as the map, contacts that show up in the base from time to time unannounced. Random NPC attacks Arch decides to visit). Heck, random events that threaten or give a reward (oh no the reactor is going into overload or those bugs got into some goo we were holding became self aware and now we have a new base defence) These of course would need to be optional so as to not mess with the players personal story.

Not only that but a less constrained base construction system. Rooms and hallways that are not fixed postions (right angles, always 90 degrees ect)... many many more decorative objects, unless there is base raiding, drop the power/control requirements. personalized decorative items (statues of your character for example...great for evil sg leaders) elevators, private rooms ect.

Also, have more items in the base that can influence mission design.....crime computers to examine clues (could be a minigame in and of itself), occult libraries, security cameras (tuff one to implement to be sure but would be nice to click a screen like some solo games and see what is happening in an area outside the base).

What about meta gaming concepts (evil mastermind plots, informers, mentoring ect) that you can set up in the base (as well as any browser on mobile devices). Neverwinter has this interesting meta game where you can send followers out to complete tasks for xp and rewards....its not required but it does have some unique rewards to it.

Have a character breakdown in the base, a way to see all the stats....time played, missions completed, damage taken distance traveled ect ect. Make it optional to allow others to see the info as well.

What about mission record playback. Basically you record a short video in game and it plays it on a loop over the screens. Hell that alone would be cool for the machinima people.

More options for people not in your sg to visit your base such as a flag that gives non sg players anytime access.

Allow SG leaders to give construction control over small areas (like a players personal room) to get them invested in the base.

If the base has storage..allow it to have individual storage as well as group storage. Don't just make it flags you can tick (of course have that as well) but also a purely individual storage.

Please more than two visual options for each functional item in the base. Zone porters don't have to be magical or tech based teleporters....what about a jet, a car, a waterslide... a freaking circus cannon. Storage containers don't need to be big box that looks mechanical or mystical...what about safe deposit boxes as a wall decoration or a shelving unit. Just as having a multitude of costume options connects a player to the character, more options in the look of the base will connect the player to it.

I know that not all of these are easy and many are probably not worth the time, but I personally think with how many game that now offer some forms of personal creativity (7 days to die, the island, the forest, minecraft ect) there should be a lot more focus on bases than CoH ever did as an additional hook for the game.

Gangrel
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 29 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/15/2013 - 15:14
Hell, why not do it so that

Hell, why not do it so that if you log off in your base you get a greater amount of rest XP allocated compared to logging off elsewhere? And not only that, give the "player size" base the opportunity to launch small missions, have their own challenges, and be able to craft/buy/sell/access bank space/mail/gather mats as well.

Essentially, the more the player can make it a "one stop shop" place (either via just their own, or several neighbours that they can access), the more likely the player will use it... or even just visit those of other players at random

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

whiteperegrine
whiteperegrine's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 3 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 06/19/2014 - 14:49
I like everything presented,

I like everything presented, and if the various suggestions were made optional then it would have a better chance of feeding the various players needs, whatever they may be. although the one thing I am not seeing is a reason for hanging out is just "chitchatting" it seems (imo) that many folks just like to be social and when they gather in groups in MMO's its because they are chitchatting. albeit some may be doing something at the same time (crafting, inventory management, what-have-ya...) it's access to the most popular chat channel, which is typically "x" zone. if players had access to that "x" zome (usually the first real big main zone players encounter and where most of the shops are) in combination of some of the suggestions made above we may see an increase in SG traffic. is it a full proof way to get people into the bases to hang out? naah. but it is another option to consider.

for the record, I very rarely say anything in those open zone-wide channels...so it really wouldn't bother me, but I know some folks are chatty cathy's. ;)

islandtrevor72
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/28/2014 - 11:24
I think part of the reason

I think part of the reason people did not hang in bases was it wasnt as easy as just hanging out under the atlas ball. To get in the base you needed to be in that SG, allied with that SG or on the team with someone in that SG. That meant to join the party late you had to fulfill one of those.
As I said in my other post, if there were more ways people could be given access to a specific base you might see more people hang out there.

Of course everyone had access to Pocket D and it was always empty too aside for the NPCs or during the occasional even so who knows. =

Superpersonage
Superpersonage's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 08/19/2014 - 17:34
islandtrevor72 wrote:
islandtrevor72 wrote:

I think part of the reason people did not hang in bases was it wasnt as easy as just hanging out under the atlas ball.

Very true, and I think if you're creating reasons to gather in a base it has to be related to the SG that owns the base. I had characters in very large SGs that never seemed to do anything but recruit more members (whom the leaders never bothered to meet), very small SGs that were desperate for prestige, and mid-sized SGs who used the base only for scheduled meetings (and the purpose of those meetings was to choose how to farm prestige, where to hold the CC, or to see who wanted to leave the base and go to an arena to spar).

Sure, you CAN gather there just to chat, but you can also chat amongst a group of people in a chat channel without any two of those participants being in the same zone. The base has to have a purpose, and it might as well be to serve the good of the SG.

In addition to storage and containers to facilitate trade, crafting facilities and fast travel options (yes I'm repeating myself from my earlier post), a PvP "sparring area" for SG members and a mission generator that rewards prestige (or whatever its CoT equivalent will be called) would go a long way toward giving members a reason to frequent the base. I was a bit facetious about why I thought offline avatars were a bad idea, but it really does just avoid solving the problem.

I was not one to do elaborate constructions, like creating room dividers and subfloors and mezzanines out of furniture, but I would like to see a capability to create a truly multilevel base. The CoX base creator used a two dimensional grid into which three dimensional rooms could be placed, but like islandtrevor said the "rules" for placing the rooms were restrictive and sometimes frustrating. If you were allowed to use as many rooms as would fit into your chosen grid, but stack them in as many levels as you wished (as long as no room was orphaned from the rest), I think that would be awesome. Say your chosen grid allowed a 2D layout of nine rooms, but you could stack those nine rooms in up to three layers? Maybe your entry room would have to be on the bottom (or top, if the base was meant to be underground?), communicating directly to a lift room (purchased like any other room) which allowed access to the next layer above, where the second layer lift room communicated directly with your computer, power, and crafting rooms, and provided access to the third layer lift room which directly accessed maybe a storage room, the TP room and a meeting hall. You might still be able to to cool tricks with furniture, but if you weren't into that you could still have a multilevel base.

As for Pocket D, it was sad but in later years it was always abandoned except for the Winter Event and Spring Fling (and in the last two years even those events weren't heavily visited). I always preferred to it the Atlas statue, probably because I had the GvE edition and could teleport to the Tiki Room from anywhere in Paragon or the Isles. I see that CO's "superhero dance club" is also always abandoned. Maybe there should be some thought about why that is, and try to form solutions. There's no point in CoT having such a club if it's only destined to become a ghost town itself.

islandtrevor72
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/28/2014 - 11:24
As I said before, the reason

As I said before, the reason people didn't hang out in bases was because the gameplay was not in the base. If there are things to do, easier ways to grant access to non-sg members and goals that can be gained in the base then more will frequent them.

CoH did have some things that could be done in bases but other than construction (which was largely limited to the SG leader) those things took very little time to complete. Storage and porters were a quick pop in pop out affair and crafting was pretty much a single person activity so they might as well not have been there.

If you want anyone to actually use the base for any period of time the activities in the base need to take a bit of time to do. A sparing area or danger room like area would be fine as well as a mission generator (similar to paper or scanner missions in CoH) would be cool too. But to truly make a base a hangout for the SG it needs many activities that can be engaged in by multiple people. The more optional (it must be optional) activities the better.

LeadWanderer
LeadWanderer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/13/2013 - 22:41
I'm not sure if anyone has

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not, but in the time since the close of CoH I've been a bit of an MMO nomad, I enjoyed a lot of aspects of various MMO's that I've tried.

One of note that goes along these lines is Age of Wushu, which allows offline players to not only be shop keepers, they also populate the game as NPCs, and even play a part in certain quests, where you kidnap an offline player and take them elsewhere to be a slave, essentially. The game isn't that old, I imagine that the engine for CoT is going to have the capacity for these as well.

There would have to be a number of things in place for this to work for CoT, naturally we wouldn't like to have our hero doing heroing without us playing, but we could play a civilian role like mentioned above.

The options would work like this, a character offline populates the zone they logged off in. Players could designate a Civilian outfit so that they can wander the city and do their job, which could be set in stone or simply something we obtain along the way. We could have many settings that allow us to show up where we want instead of in the zone was logged off in. I think this feature would be great to make the world feel more full.

"When all the world is dark, look for me, I'll be your light."

Follow me @SequentialRTim

Read Bleeding Edges!

Comicsluvr
Comicsluvr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/07/2013 - 03:39
So many ideas the mind

So many ideas the mind quivers...

NPCs that can act as stores etc: Great for bases, death for the rest of the game. Remember the costume shops in CoH and how they were always filled with people oohing and ahhing over each other? Then they made every contact a costume shop and those shops died.

Now the vendors who bought and sold stuff were different. Those were places of business, not chat locations. You want to put some version of those in a base I'm all for it. Maybe make them something you have to research or create?

Travel is another thing that made bases great. Right up until there were so MANY alternate methods of travel that Teleporters became obsolete. I understand the desire to get to the zones quickly but when you add a feature you have to be SURE that feature doesn't squelch a previous one.

One of the biggest issues with Bases in CoH is that the Devs were unclear, amongst themselves even, as to what they were FOR. Social meeting places? Ok...any space will do for that. Decorator's/builder's paradise? Ok...need more options for that. Travel hub? Ok...get on those Beacons then. What was worse, I remember Castle stating in an interview that the players didn't seem to be using the Bases as the Devs envisioned them. Um...ok...HOW did you envision them? Did you ever TELL us your thoughts? Water over the dam.

The main thing I want to see in a Base: A Training Room. The ONE feature I liked from CO was the Powerhouse. You can go in to train up, test your power and make SURE it does what you think it does. If so, adjust colors and FX as desired and you're off. If not, you remove the power immediately at no cost and pick another. It's a 'latest power only' Respec and I love it. (You can do full respecs too but that's a different conversation)

The other thing I want to see: More options for the Training Room. It happens in comics all the time. 'Hey guys! I just discovered that I have this cool NEW power! Let's go to the Training Room and see how it works!' and so forth. In the Training Room the team cal dial up stock enemies (sort of like the AE but with no XP or drops given) and practice using your powers. You can perfect the Cone, get a better feel for just how big the AoE is and whether or not your Sleep will be shut off by your teammate's Immobilize or not. Forget asking the Forums for mechanics...go and try it for yourself. Learn by DOING. This is also a great way to find out if the Boss you fought last week (that smeared your team) has some sort of secret power or effect you didn't have time to notice so you can counter it.

Exclusivity: I don't mean members vs non-members. I mean there should be some things (not essential or game-breaking) that can ONLY be gotten from a Base. Temp force fields, temp flight packs, whatever. Sure you can get these things in the missions where they drop but after they're gone what then? Go back and grind the same mission over again? Way old and we all know it. No...if my hi-tech hero gets his hands on a force field belt then he should be able to gather some stuff, spend some time researching it and build his own. Mages do the same thing.

Easy to join: If I want a solo base then dammit I WANT a solo base. I do NOT want to have to form a SG, make myself the founder and then ask my buddies to invite me. It's clunky, dumb and there is absolutely no reason for it.

Scalability: If I start out with a small SG and it grows I want to be able to grow the base as well. Maybe at some point I get an option to add a new Reactor not available to smaller bases now I need to go do a mission arc for it. I want players to be able to decorate specific areas without trashing the whole place. I want that small-time Contact who calls my base with missions to hook me up with his big-time counterpart when my Reputation gets high enough.

I'm willing to wait for good stuff. If we have rudimentary Bases at launch I'll be thrilled. But the goal is to have it all eventually.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

dawnofcrow
dawnofcrow's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/31/2013 - 08:56
i want a ghost towns

i want a ghost towns

whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich

Pengy
Pengy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/09/2013 - 10:40
With animated tumbleweed pets

With animated tumbleweed pets?

dawnofcrow
dawnofcrow's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/31/2013 - 08:56
Pengy wrote:
Pengy wrote:

With animated tumbleweed pets?

i think of it but tumbleweed pets will work too

whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich

CrownArts
CrownArts's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 11/17/2013 - 00:17
My SG bases were hardly empty

My SG bases were hardly empty. They all were important in RP...some where homes, offices, bowling alley, coffee shop, mall, schools, prisons, etc. Most of the time missions and AE's starting from these bases, and as the group grew in size some opted to stay behind and continue RP seeing that only 8 players could mission on one team. So our Bases were never empty, someone was there.

Detective Eion Cassi of Titan City Police's intelligence Division is "Agent Marvel"

Ashtaroth
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 12/08/2014 - 20:49
Fire Away wrote:
Fire Away wrote:

Bases were ghost towns because they had very limited functional value to the rank and file SG member whose hard earned prestige created them (just storage, occasional rez and teleport). The ultimate irony was the mission computer that never handed out missions hereoside except CoP. Make bases the one stop convenience for everything players want to do in the game (level up, tailor, respec, get missions, etc.). Add NPC shopkeepers to the mix...

Love the ideal of functionality..like an icon's sales rep option, or even earning them and the dummies/mannequin for random costume display. be real sweet if your SG had a color and/or costume theme going...to be able to place the pieces and colors on a mannequin

My former base was Tech themed..would have loved to have option to access 5th column machines and monitors, Crey, Vanguard, etc. tech stuff for base

Base had cells (I think like 8) it turned out pretty sweet looking, but it looked ghost town'ish since there was never a villain to place in one of said cells. AND w/ exception of sentry gun'esk things it lacked NPC. Woulda been sweet to post some FBZ soldiers or Vanguard, etc. in monitor room and or at main doors.

Base featured a airship (most ppl went boats or subs for reason) that one could actually walk through (*shudders @ the thought of ALL the hours and desk placements I did on that thing). Having couple NPS in hanger with orange suits on..even if just emoting explanation could be set up to look like they are working

Same with lab coat doctor npc, etc. I think it would be awesome if they were interactive, but I'd be just as happy if they did nothing but stand there...well maybe a lil movement like most stationary NPC did.

As I ramble on... again functionality = better, but I wouldn't want to go too crazy with it. Example would be easier to in my minds eye to have the Wentworth's Fine Consignments function tied directly to a base..same with AE and it's mission architect. BUT I wouldn't want it out of game completely because it might screw over smaller SG and solo runners.

One wouldn't want a Base to out shine functionality of those places either..otherwise why have 'em in game...

so maybe compromise for example you can do certain function from base but not all in regards to Went's AH, and one can Run missions from base via AE's base unit, but one would still have to go AE and spend tickets.

*shrugs*

Ashtaroth
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 12/08/2014 - 20:49
CrownArts wrote:
CrownArts wrote:

My SG bases were hardly empty. They all were important in RP...some where homes, offices, bowling alley, coffee shop, mall, schools, prisons, etc. Most of the time missions and AE's starting from these bases, and as the group grew in size some opted to stay behind and continue RP seeing that only 8 players could mission on one team. So our Bases were never empty, someone was there.

Heh ya got me really remembering my base now...

*Secure Council room
*Jail (8 cells) with 2 control points (excluding the cells themselves)
*Shooting range, complete with large and short counters and targets and observation booth on second floor
*2 hangars
--Hangar one featured the big Arachnos ship and several (like 12) of the Longbow ships..no sorry there was 12 slots for Longbow ships but like 2 or 3 were out on patrol ;)
--Hangar two featured a flying fortress...which is to say an air ship (and it looked like an airship) that players could actually walk into and around in
*melee/short range practice room
*few personal rooms
*and then your standard Medical, Energy, Control, Teleportation (which we actually had just one room big enough to fit them all in it), Couple workshops (connected end to end and large open ways between the two cept for a small wall between the two, etc.

Had the 5 well 3 of us had more time we probably coulda gone larger still and had theater, a pool area, etc. Sadly the game went dead.

Chrono Amp
Chrono Amp's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 12/03/2014 - 16:49
Something I would like to see

Something I would like to see added to base design is adding some of the scripting power used in the Architect Entertainment mission designs for bases. I spent a lot of time ( a disgusting amount really) designing and expanding our base as we grew, and one of the things I always regretted was everything was static, I would like to see that change to a certain degree.

I am not talking about setting up ambushes for people to farm or anything like that, I am talking about setting it up so when someone comes into the base I can have someone come up to them and ask to see their hero ID card and present them with a visitors pass welcoming them to X Base. Perhaps having a roaming guard that would ask for someone's ID before entering a certain area, things that may give life to a base, as well as being able to purchase npcs and such (much like the fortress designs in swtor) except be able to make them mobile or be able to explain certain things about your super group, maybe telling a story of how your group once faced Mr Bad Guy.

Bio-chauvinism, and on such a small scale, when it comes to the processing of knowledge, is laughable. Give me any savant you care, and I shall match his worth tenfold with even the most basic of Machine Spirits.

Chrono Amp
Chrono Amp's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 12/03/2014 - 16:49
I forgot to mention above ...

I forgot to mention above .... allow setting up your base to be invaded by an NPC villain group at a certain time. (make it a weekly thing that guilds can do so its not farmed/abused) Could also add the requirement of having done x amount of missions or have a set number of -rep with the group in order for them to be used, so your hero group must have essentially messed with that villain group enough to where they will now strike back.

Bio-chauvinism, and on such a small scale, when it comes to the processing of knowledge, is laughable. Give me any savant you care, and I shall match his worth tenfold with even the most basic of Machine Spirits.

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 42 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
That last is a good idea, for

That last is a good idea, for folks that don't like PVP but want to design (and test) a defensible base.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Millennium City Refugee
Foradain's Character Conclave