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Discuss: What's The Plan: Finances

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Grimfox
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I think she'd rather enjoy

I think she'd rather enjoy the idea. From what I remember she translated a lot of how she felt to the animals. Now those same idea's are being turned around again to be used on people.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
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Terwyn
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I've had irregular

I've had irregular correspondence with her since early 2011, so I should reasonably be able to find out.

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

Business Director

Whill B
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Sooo happy to hear NO

Sooo happy to hear NO LOCKBOXES!

I hate RNG. As do most gamers.

When the coolest items are locked behind, not only a pay wall, but one that's based on random chance, it just gives most people a sour taste.

In all for spending lots of money on a game. But I really, really rather know exactly what I'm buying.

Some Yahoo
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What if I won the lottery and

What if I won the lottery and wanted to spend $500,000 on the off-chance that I'll get the rare Jessica Rabbit avatar? Still no lockboxes?

*imagines what the Jessica Rabbit powerset might look like*
* Booby trap
* Frying Pan attack
* Distraction (that's a whole skill tree)

Lothic
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Some Yahoo wrote:
Some Yahoo wrote:

What if I won the lottery and wanted to spend $500,000 on the off-chance that I'll get the rare Jessica Rabbit avatar? Still no lockboxes?
*imagines what the Jessica Rabbit powerset might look like*
* Booby trap
* Frying Pan attack
* Distraction (that's a whole skill tree)

My guess is that if you had $500,000 that you wanted to give to MWM that they'd be willing to spend a few minutes to create you a custom-made one-of-a-kind Jessica Rabbit avatar (with its own unique powerset) directly without messing around with silly lockboxes. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Doctor Tyche
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Some Yahoo wrote:
What if I won the lottery and wanted to spend $500,000 on the off-chance that I'll get the rare Jessica Rabbit avatar? Still no lockboxes?
*imagines what the Jessica Rabbit powerset might look like*
* Booby trap
* Frying Pan attack
* Distraction (that's a whole skill tree)
My guess is that if you had $500,000 that you wanted to give to MWM that they'd be willing to spend a few minutes to create you a custom-made one-of-a-kind Jessica Rabbit avatar (with its own unique powerset) directly without messing around with silly lockboxes. ;)

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Radiac
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A lot of people make a big

A lot of people make a big deal out of "Pay to Win" being a thing. I personally don't worry about that in any event, but for those who do, here is a theory to consider:

In GW2 you can buy Gems (the cash shop currency) for real money.
You can buy Gold (IGC) for Gems. (and visa versa, FYI)
You can buy items you want for Gold in the auction house.
You can use the items you bought to make high-end gear (or just buy some of it off the auction house).

As far as I can tell, that basically means that you can just drop a bunch of money on Gems and use them to buy the best gear. Ergo that game is Pay to Win, isn't it? Or at least that option exists.

But nobody complains about GW2 being Pay to Win or rage quits because someone else has better gear than they do, because it can all be gotten by grinding for Gold the long way too.

Even if they had some gear that could ONLY be gotten by paying Gems to buy it, you could still grind for Gold, use it to buy Gems, then buy that gear. Of course, in GW2, the stuff you buy from the cash shop is purely for aesthetics. But even if it weren't like that, you could still grind for everything, if you wanted to.

So I submit that Pay to Win isn't the problem. In GW2 the game's overall difficulty isn't so high that you MUST have the best gear to be able to do it. You can do quite well with the second-best gear in fact. I think THAT is the driving factor. Not the ability to guy the best gear with real money, but the question of whether or not the BEST gear is the only gear you can use and still play the game relatively effectively.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

blacke4dawn
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

So I submit that Pay to Win isn't the problem. In GW2 the game's overall difficulty isn't so high that you MUST have the best gear to be able to do it. You can do quite well with the second-best gear in fact. I think THAT is the driving factor. Not the ability to guy the best gear with real money, but the question of whether or not the BEST gear is the only gear you can use and still play the game relatively effectively.

To add to that, and not a GW2 issue, but all Pay to Win games that I have seen being railed against are also those where said gear can only be gotten through the cash store and that you personally must drop the RL cash.

IME being able to convert cash store currency into currencies usable in the AH has only been an issue for those who define P2W as being able to gain an "advantage" in any way shape or form even if it is temporary and even before end-game has been reached. To me that is a stupid definition mainly because they say it's wrong since they "didn't earn it them self through purely in-game means", but that would also include being given said items by someone else in regard to "not gaining it themselves" (not under P2W though).

Radiac
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One thing that drives some of

One thing that drives some of the P2W complaints is PvP and the development changes that it inevitably causes. You grind out a bunch of PvE content for a long time to build up the ideal toon for PVP only to have the devs nerf it a week later. Or, from the POV of the whale, you PAY MONEY to build the best PVP toon faster, only to have the devs nerf it. Either way, the devs have to be allowed to develop the game, and part of that is maintaining some semblance of fun and interesting interaction in PVP so that it doesn't degrade into a clonefest of "there is only one good PVP build, everyone knows that". But some people view that process as strictly a cash grab (i.e. they're changing the rules arbitrarily every so often to make everyone buy different gear so they can make money) or an attempt on the part of devs to tamp down on their "Play Style (TM)" i.e. I built this toon to exploit a broken combo and now they're taking away my hard-lock win machine because they hate me, personally).

Anyway, I think if you just make PvE easy enough to do with the second-best gear, which ought to be plentiful and cheap, then allow people to up their personal difficulty, etc as they want, like CoX did, there is no danger of Pay to Win becoming a real problem.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

CallmeBlue
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Let me just say that I am

Let me just say that I am absolutely ecstatic about this attitude to financing the game. It really makes me want to stick around and spend money, knowing that the devs won't be trying to pull off shell games.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Terwyn
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If we try to play any shell

If we try to play any shell games, it'd only be in the specific context of knowing how to avoid falling into the trap they represent. You cannot avoid a problem if you fail to understand it, after all!

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

Business Director

ladyazphelie
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I've been so devoted to this

I've been so devoted to this game for so long, I'll probably subscribe whether or not I'm actively playing. I'd hate to see this game end up like CoX, and I think it has even more potential to be an even better game. I think you guys are doing the best possible thing you could, and I'm looking forward to subscribing 💗

Former Villain of Virtue - Magistryx Lucra - Mastermind/Dark

Lin Chiao Feng
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Terwyn wrote:
Terwyn wrote:

If we try to play any shell games, it'd only be in the specific context of knowing how to avoid falling into the trap they represent. You cannot avoid a problem if you fail to understand it, after all!

Gods, it's frustrating how Lawful people are!

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Terwyn
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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Terwyn wrote:
If we try to play any shell games, it'd only be in the specific context of knowing how to avoid falling into the trap they represent. You cannot avoid a problem if you fail to understand it, after all!
Gods, it's frustrating how Lawful people are!

I never said my alignment was lawful. :) I always play Neutral.

It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.

Business Director

Radiac
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In DnD, when I DM, I don't

In DnD, when I DM, I don't let anyone play any kind of Evil character, or "Neutral Neutral". The prohibition of Evil is to prevent players from going rogue and trying to kill each other in the name of "roleplaying the character well" and the reason for no True Neutral is because I reserve that for things that are incapable of having a political opinion, like oozes, constructs, plants, vermin, animals, etc. And even then, "dumb undead" like level CR 1/2 zombies are still considered Evil.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Tannim222
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

In DnD, when I DM, I don't let anyone play any kind of Evil character, or "Neutral Neutral". The prohibition of Evil is to prevent players from going rogue and trying to kill each other in the name of "roleplaying the character well" and the reason for no True Neutral is because I reserve that for things that are incapable of having a political opinion, like oozes, constructs, plants, vermin, animals, etc. And even then, "dumb undead" like level CR 1/2 zombies are still considered Evil.

One of thr best games I played in was where a player was a LE Necromancer and had to hide his nature because of the LG paladin and other good characters in the group.
His view was that everyone was a means to and end of his own purposes. It went 2 years by the time he was found out. Everyone was in their teens in levels.

The Paladin was so torn because he counted this other character as a "brother". And the real kicker was, only the LE player and GM new. Everyone was shocked. The paladin player used thet to his roleplay of how his paladin felt betrayed.

The paladin threatened combat. The necro still needed him and others for his plans and didn't want to fight so he used an uncurable curse he had on another party member thst only he could remove, leaving the choice up to the paladin:

Leave me be and we will continue to work together (lots of rp here using examples of their mutual past in how he never stopped the paladin from doing what he believed to be right), or fight me and your other friend dies.

It was magnificent. The party was torn by the tension from then on in many other adventures. Often with thr party going in spearately into dungeons and battles.

It was loads of fun.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Planet10
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Social engineering in games

Social engineering in games works its best magic against other players. The drawbacks are forever being paranoid about those people in future games and extra overhead by the GM (things take longer to accomplish).

Lin Chiao Feng
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Terwyn wrote:
Terwyn wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Terwyn wrote:
If we try to play any shell games, it'd only be in the specific context of knowing how to avoid falling into the trap they represent. You cannot avoid a problem if you fail to understand it, after all!
Gods, it's frustrating how Lawful people are!
I never said my alignment was lawful. :) I always play Neutral.

Wasn't referring to you, though.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Lin Chiao Feng
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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Social engineering in games works its best magic against other players. The drawbacks are forever being paranoid about those people in future games and extra overhead by the GM (things take longer to accomplish).

And, of course, you could play Paranoia, where all that is baked in from the start.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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