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Discuss: What You Know: The Five Dragons

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Shadow Elusive
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Discuss: What You Know: The Five Dragons

Hope you enjoyed the extra goodies! Imgur will only accept gif files and gifs are 256 colors, which are slaughtering the fabulous visuals. I'll be looking into a platform that will let us upload higher quality clips tomorrow. In the meantime, have a ball.

Read the update here: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/what-you-know-five-dragons-visuals

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Love the "What you Know"

Love the "What you Know" updates, particularly with visuals. It's particularly nice to see some more of the combat animations. Nice work, folks.

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Not what I expected visual

Not what I expected visual wise. I was picturing they typical anime lanky, boy band brooding sunglass/suite wearing gangsters with tattoos on their face.

All 4 Mutants

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All 4 Mutants wrote:
All 4 Mutants wrote:

Not what I expected visual wise. I was picturing they typical anime lanky, boy band brooding sunglass/suite wearing gangsters with tattoos on their face.
All 4 Mutants

At least we got rid of the danged robotic mannequin. Working on improving that segment and its display some more. Our site needs a better method of hosting this. Still this looks good; I can't wait to walk those streets and see those characters in their proper context and quality.

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Sounds like a combination of

Sounds like a combination of the Tsoo (the general flavor) and the Outcasts (in that only the upper echelons have powers), but I'm thinking also inspired by the Tong.

I like it.

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Wow things are really taking

Wow things are really taking shape. Can't wait for my superhero to take on the Five Dragons. Keep up the good work guys. While I like a lot of others is itching to play this soon I hope you take all the time you need and make COT a game we can be proud of

I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero

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It's good to see the

It's good to see the animation progress, but it is just me or are that guy's arms oddly proportioned? It might just be an effect of the suit.

Under Construction...

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Shadow Elusive wrote:I'll be
Shadow Elusive wrote:

I'll be looking into a platform that will let us upload higher quality clips tomorrow.

Have you tried gifcat? I've never used it, but I know one of my friends swears by it.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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It's the suit. And the muscle

It's the suit. And the muscle. You ever see a pro wrestler in a suit?

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Nice!, but also UGH! Setting

Nice!, but also UGH! Setting up my targeting macros now.

*wanders off grumbling about teleporters and hurricanes*

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I hope the Five Dragons make

I hope the Five Dragons make use of their elemental magic for martial arts because every time that guy fires that hand cannon it smacks him in the forehead. They better invest in recoil compensation or helmets if they don't want to get swamped by lawsuits every time someone gets a concussion.

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Even in a low-res GIF I still

Even in a low-res GIF I still like the familiar feel of the city.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Deathwatch101
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you could try - https://gyazo

you could try - https://gyazo.com/en for gifs i know its a gif site some people use.

harpospoke
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Nice! Can't wait to meet

Nice! Can't wait to meet them.

Deathwatch101
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Additionally, Its nice to see

Additionally, Its nice to see some gun animations, though the recoil is heavy. Im hoping we see some Sub-machine gun or Assault rifle animations at some point too. Fingers crossed.

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I think it looks right for

I think it looks right for that kind of gun. The guy just doesn't know how to shoot it.

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I like the suit and the gun

I like the suit and the gun animation, maybe a little dramatic with the recoil, but not bad. I still think the guy looks to muscle-bound for an average type of minion or whatever. I hope that not all NPC minions etc in the Five Dragons end up looking that buff.

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Nice attention to detail with

Nice attention to detail with the smoke from the handgun. It is right where it should be.


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This looks like another fun

This looks like another fun group of people to thwart. The reports of oriental-style elemental magic are especially intriguing.

As for the video, I think this guy could use some formal pistol training. Weaver stance would work much better if he's having trouble with recoil. ^_^

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For uploading/displaying more

For uploading/displaying more gifs, the internet seems to be going the way of HTML5 video for size/efficiency reasons.

I'd definitely recommend trying out gfycat.com for your next uploads :)

Also great work! Each day that passes I miss CoH more but also get more excited for CoT!

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I'm okay with the recoil

I'm okay with the recoil being a little bit exaggerated. Kinda goes with the genre and will help players interpret and analyze during combat. There are still problems with the character proportions, though, as mentioned by others. Musclebound is one thing, but his arms are disproportionate. Too short. Typical skeletal proportions put the elbows even with the waist, wrists even with hips and knuckles/fingertips even with the crotch. Those proportions don't change with the addition of muscle.

I also like the embroidery and general design of the suit, although with the way it drapes, or rather doesn't, it looks a little like the guy is wearing a puffer coat instead of a suit. I hate to be a nay-sayer, I love you Devs and I'm still looking forward to the game, but if you look to these boards for honest feedback..well...there it is. I'm not really interested in the technical difficulties, I know there are always compromise decisions that need to be made. Just making an observation

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"Hope you enjoyed the extra

"Hope you enjoyed the extra goodies"

Was there something I missed? The email I got only had 3 pics. No video or gif.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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The third one was a gif,

The third one was a gif, trying checking it on our site via the link in the OP

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However that dang robotic

However that dang robotic mannequin looked good enough for a cheap hitech robot. The kind you buy when you need more manpower and there aren't enough people to hire.

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Was he actually tracking a

Was he actually tracking a vehicle to fire at or did you just time the animation that way? That would be interesting if they are targetable. This is a great update and more than I expected with a more finished look and animation, something people that aren't familiar with the project can get excited about.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

I'm okay with the recoil being a little bit exaggerated. Kinda goes with the genre and will help players interpret and analyze during combat. There are still problems with the character proportions, though, as mentioned by others. Musclebound is one thing, but his arms are disproportionate. Too short. Typical skeletal proportions put the elbows even with the waist, wrists even with hips and knuckles/fingertips even with the crotch. Those proportions don't change with the addition of muscle.
I also like the embroidery and general design of the suit, although with the way it drapes, or rather doesn't, it looks a little like the guy is wearing a puffer coat instead of a suit. I hate to be a nay-sayer, I love you Devs and I'm still looking forward to the game, but if you look to these boards for honest feedback..well...there it is. I'm not really interested in the technical difficulties, I know there are always compromise decisions that need to be made. Just making an observation

Thank you for pointing that out! Turns out I'd forgotten to make an a setting change for the skeleton's translation retarget.

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Slow down the animation and

Slow down the animation and actually look at the firing mechanics.
The gun recoils all the way up to a 90 degree angle then there is a flash of light and a puff of smoke. If that is actually how it worked, no one would ever need to worry about dying from lead poisoning.

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Well, the devs aren't gong to

Well, the devs aren't gong to have to worry about getting enough detailed critique of any graphics they show--that gif got sliced, diced, and dissected :P!

warcabbit wrote:

It's the suit. And the muscle. You ever see a pro wrestler in a suit?

It's true, really big--especially really big and muscle-bound--guys just look unnatural in suits, even in the real world.

The corner has clearly been fully turned. The look and the lore are starting to begin to really come together. Words cannot express how much I want this game, and to play it for many years to come.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Slow down the animation and actually look at the firing mechanics.
The gun recoils all the way up to a 90 degree angle then there is a flash of light and a puff of smoke. If that is actually how it worked, no one would ever need to worry about dying from lead poisoning.

Wait, which frame shows Abraham Zapruder going back and to the left on the grassy knoll? :)

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*blinkblink* Sure, Doc, I..

*blinkblink* Sure, Doc, I...um...figured it was something like that. I might have recalibrated the dampers after reversing the polarity in the gravitational flux capacitors. But your way would probably work, too. You know, 220, 221. Whatever it takes.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The third one was a gif, trying checking it on our site via the link in the OP

Ah there it is! Thanks

Looks great! Maybe a little too much recoil for a hand gun but it's still beautiful

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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I really hope there are some

I really hope there are some great Asian writers that can bring some of the great lore of Japan, China, and Korea into the world of Western Comics in a way that is both enlightening and most importantly FUN.

I can't wait to read about the Mystic beliefs and motives of the 5 Dragons.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I really hope there are some great Asian writers that can bring some of the great lore of Japan, China, and Korea into the world of Western Comics in a way that is both enlightening and most importantly FUN.
I can't wait to read about the Mystic beliefs and motives of the 5 Dragons.

An oddity of Missing Worlds Media is we often don't even know the racial background of our team (or age, gender, sexual orientation, etc.). Got any writers in that category you can send our way, just in case?

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I don't recognize what gun

I don't recognize what gun the figure is shooting, as, the barrel opening is usually on the top half of the business end, with maybe a guide rod below, which is solid looking. A Desert Eagle is even more pronounced, especially the .50 AE version. It looks like an auto-pistol, but... GJ on the smooth animation, as a rough example, it is a bit better than the 'City' animation imo... In the 'Ghost in the Shell' anime, Togusa uses an revolver with the barrel opening on the bottom, and, there is, IRL, a new revolver that is trying the idea out, both in performance and popularity (sales). Having weight above the barrel exit may help 'tame' the recoil...

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Marjorie Liu.

Marjorie Liu.

And yes I honestly think she'd absolutely love the ability to write it or at least consult on it (for pay).

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I really hope there are some great Asian writers that can bring some of the great lore...

I don't understand why they have to be "Asian" to be great writers of Far Eastern culture

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Yeah, I'm sure that there's

Yeah, I'm sure that there's plenty Asian Americans who know jack shit about far eastern culture. I would think doing proper research would be more important than the writer's ethnicity.

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TroublesomeKnight wrote:
TroublesomeKnight wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure that there's plenty Asian Americans who know jack shit about far eastern culture. I would think doing proper research would be more important than the writer's ethnicity.

Yeah, basically. I couldn't tell you for the life of me any Welsh, Danish, or Irish folklore despite being descended from those places. Literally all I know about the culture of my heritage is that I'm descended from a berserker that attended the Battle of Agincourt, and that's not really a culturally unique thing. It might be worth it to ask somebody's who has actually researched the lore in question.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Wait, which frame shows Abraham Zapruder going back and to the left on the grassy knoll? :)

Every time I load that info page the GIF loads extremely slow, so I get to see it render each frame at four second intervals. I am the lucky one, aren't I?

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Looks good - can't wait to

Looks good - can't wait to punch that guy in the face!

As for the exaggerated firing motion/recoil: it might still be a work in progress, but then again, just like in theatre and professional wrasslin, it's probably so that the audience (in this case the player) can more easily see what's going on due to the fact that we are usually observing from a distance (zoomed back onscreen).

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The suit is so smooth. The

The suit is so smooth. The gun bussing was so fluid and he repositioned himself!!!

RAN Ink

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At first I was like, "meh, it

At first I was like, "meh, it looks kind of plain minus the cool dragon doohickey on the back." Then, I watched the animation beneath and totally changed my mine. I like it. The colors might be different I imagine based on level (rank) of Dragon, right?

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I wouldn't think they'd have

I wouldn't think they'd have to be, but they should be knowledgeable. I would want that if someone was pulling from my culture. :)

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

JayBezz wrote:
I really hope there are some great Asian writers that can bring some of the great lore of Japan, China, and Korea into the world of Western Comics in a way that is both enlightening and most importantly FUN.
I can't wait to read about the Mystic beliefs and motives of the 5 Dragons.
An oddity of Missing Worlds Media is we often don't even know the racial background of our team (or age, gender, sexual orientation, etc.). Got any writers in that category you can send our way, just in case?

Smart move in my opinion. *thumbs up*

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I'm quite certain we have at

I'm quite certain we have at least one japanese on the Lore team.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

I'm quite certain we have at least one japanese on the Lore team.

It doesn't surprise me; I was just ignorant. I normally don't know such details about people unless there is something that makes it obvious or they state someway - I don't go out of my way to find out either. Unless it's material to what they do the personal background of our team remains that - personal. No names needed but Japanese born and raised? or just Japanese ancestry?

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We joke about Japan being the

We joke about Japan being the land that brought the world manga and anime, but what City of Titans "needs" from Japan is an Otaku ... who knows the culture/folklore/history from a (preferably) native perspective.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

We joke about Japan being the land that brought the world manga and anime, but what City of Titans "needs" from Japan is an Otaku ... who knows the culture/folklore/history from a (preferably) native perspective.

*nods sagely* Agreed.

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Question for MWM:

Question for MWM:

Leaving aside the quality restrictions of GIFs for the moment, when you folks give us wee animations like this one or the Rook -- is that a vid capture in the game world as it stands at the moment, with the current actual assets for mobs, buildings, cars, etc, or is it done in some other utility such that the 'not actual game footage' disclaimer would apply?

In other words, when I look at these and think, "Even in this rough form, it has that familiar feel that I've been missing," am I setting myself up for disappointment?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Question for MWM:
Leaving aside the quality restrictions of GIFs for the moment, when you folks give us wee animations like this one or the Rook -- is that a vid capture in the game world as it stands at the moment, with the current actual assets for mobs, buildings, cars, etc, or is it done in some other utility such that the 'not actual game footage' disclaimer would apply?
In other words, when I look at these and think, "Even in this rough form, it has that familiar feel that I've been missing," am I setting myself up for disappointment?

That is all in-engine, set up with the same system as the final product. The only bits hard coded were the car movements.

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Looking good, and love to

Looking good, and love to hear that its an in-engine demo!

Honestly I'm not really big into the Lore postings, I get into the crunchy bits of my gameplay and while appreciating the flavor text its just a backdrop for my own stories. Having played CoH from opening to closing I've only the loosest grasp of the villain group stories, about the best I could tell you of the Tsoo was that they were lower-level critters with a ninja theme, they always seemed to get in the way of my 2nd costume slot (or was that the Cape mission?), and omg kill off the teleporting-hurricane sorcerer first.

The tech demo part, I'm very much looking forward to the street clothing slot of my heroes' costumes, something that I never much cared for in CoH because the street clothing wasn't too great compared to the over-the-top hero costume bits.

If this is the last update before Christmas, I hope everyone has a great holiday season and seeya in 2017!

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

That is all in-engine, set up with the same system as the final product. The only bits hard coded were the car movements.

Thank you! That is very much what I was hoping to hear. :-)

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Looks good - can't wait to punch that guy in the face!
As for the exaggerated firing motion/recoil: it might still be a work in progress, but then again, just like in theatre and professional wrasslin, it's probably so that the audience (in this case the player) can more easily see what's going on due to the fact that we are usually observing from a distance (zoomed back onscreen).

Good point. Kinda like how stage actors have to exaggerate some gestures because the audience is further away. You don't get any close-ups on stage so subtle emotions are lost.

I'm sure it's the same with gameplay. Some things need to be exaggerated a little bit.

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Next you're going to tell me

Next you're going to tell me that those NPCs talking to each other are just saying, "Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb."

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Next you're going to tell me that those NPCs talking to each other are just saying, "Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb."

Oh, no! They are actually saying "Asparagus cantaloupe rutabaga". :p

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I find it slightly amusing

I find it slightly amusing that the devs occasionally discuss internal stuff in threads like these. It's a little reminder about how separated they all are.

On the topic I feel as if the characters we keep seeing are all wrestlers or "larger" men. I'd like to see some more of the variation the CC is capable of and perhaps the ever elusive, female, on the internet.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I find it slightly amusing that the devs occasionally discuss internal stuff in threads like these. It's a little reminder about how separated they all are.

The other little reminder is that the game's development team is very separate than the lore writing department. There's a -lot- of people involved. :)

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cloganart wrote:
cloganart wrote:

There's a -lot- of people involved. :)

Personally, I find it encouraging that MWM (represented here by cloganart) knows that 'a lot' requires the singular verb and not the plural. 'There are a lot of...' really gets my goat.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

cloganart wrote:
There's a -lot- of people involved. :)
Personally, I find it encouraging that MWM (represented here by cloganart) knows that 'a lot' requires the singular verb and not the plural. 'There are a lot of...' really gets my goat.

Yeah, "There are" should be followed by "many" instead of "a lot of" in that case.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

JayBezz wrote:
I really hope there are some great Asian writers that can bring some of the great lore...
I don't understand why they have to be "Asian" to be great writers of Far Eastern culture

I do understand why it's important to have any societal culture written about from the inside out. If someone isn't a member of that community there are many conflicts that arise.

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I do understand why it's important to have any societal culture written about from the inside out. If someone isn't a member of that community there are many conflicts that arise.

For well over 20 years through my primary vocation I have been deeply involved with both mainland Chinese and Taiwanese people and their modern and ancient culture--as well as other East Asian cultures to a lesser extent. I have met many Westerners who know more about traditional Asian Cultures than the vast majority of the actual members of that culture, and I have met many, many people who are culturally Asian who know next to nothing about their own traditional culture--especially in the case of post-Cultural Revolution mainland Chinese.

All I can say is that, while at times there is some truth to your first sentence above, I have no idea what you mean by the second sentence.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Does anybody know what "Savvy

Does anybody know what "Savvy observers" are ?

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Does anybody know what "Savvy observers" are ?

"Savvy" is an adjective meaning "knowledgeable". I think we originally stole it from the French, savoir, "to know"

So, "Savvy observers" would be people who aren't part of a group, but have learned a lot from watching them.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages into dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary." - haven't been able to track this quote to its source :(

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OK, thanks ^^

OK, thanks ^^
So i can translate that as "des observateurs" ou des "observateurs savants" ou encore "des observateurs experts" right ? ("some observers" or maybe "some savant observers", even "expert observers" ?)

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages into dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary." - haven't been able to track this quote to its source :(

I've always heard it sourced as James Nicoll.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary."

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Donhen wrote:
Donhen wrote:

I've always heard it sourced as James Nicoll.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary."

Ah, there we go. My problem was that I was thinking the only thing wrong on the t-shirt was substituting "grammar" for "vocabulary". Many thanks! Surprising, though, I had thought it was older than 1990; more on the same order of age as Piper's comment about Norman men-at-arms and Saxon barmaids...

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Nope, still not feeling this

Nope, still not feeling this group. Look not lore. They seem more W.W.E wrestlers than Asian mob that or I played to much JRPG's(don't judge me). But it is still Alpha(?) and their look can still change.

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I'm gonna have to disagree

I'm gonna have to disagree with you, A4M. Mobsters in business suits is a staple of the superhero genre.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you, A4M. Mobsters in business suits is a staple of the superhero genre.

I've seen these types in person. When I had Penguins season tickets, my seats at the old Civic Arena were over the visitor's runway. We had road team fans around us all the time. Every time Montreal was in town, there would always be three or four large French Canadian gentlemen wearing tight jackets, expensive trenchcoats, and slicked-back hair. We all knew they were in the mob. Turns out, they (or their associates) shadowed the team because two Canadiens players got in some gambling debts. Yadda yadda yadda, the mobsters stopped showing up when those players became free agents and signed in Russia.

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There is a Trope that I'm

There is a Trope that I'm sure Redlynne could cite for us that goes something like this: If you're realstic, you won't be believable. Probably something like this.

So basically, if we perceive the bulky guy in a suit to be not representative of an asian crime organization, then no matter how realistic it may be, it is not well accepted, as evidenced by posts in this thread. The game designers would do well to play to certain sterotypes in order to be well received, without going so far into the stereotype as to be offensive. For instance slight-bodied ninjas in sandals or track suits would be believable. Muscled up thugs like you would see at a Harley Convention would be less believable.

On the other hand, an oversized sumo looking bodyguard a la Oddjob is an established asian crime stereotype. So there is still a place for the musclebound thug in our preconceptions of the Dragons.

I'm sure that the crime organization would pool its manpower from all the inhabitants of their areas of control, so who says all their thugs need to be spry asians? One needs to look only as far as Bruce Lee's Game of Death to see him fight someone who completely violates the asian crime stereotype.

Classic.

But providing such a diverse cast of characters would confuse the image of the dragons. This game relies on each of the factions to have a dependable look and feel. So consistancy would be important. I wouldn't expect to see many Kareem Abdul Jabbars running around in the Dragons' colors. But then again, HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE!?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you, A4M. Mobsters in business suits is a staple of the superhero genre.

I have no problems with them in suits. It is the body size. They look like wrestlers.

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Honestly? I don't see the

Honestly? I don't see the problem with them being so buff... I mean their kung fu mobsters who are expected to take on super heroes... why wouldn't they be buff?

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Not all of them are this buff

Not all of them are this buff either. This is their bruiser.

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How hard would it be to

How hard would it be to slightly randomize body proportions and faces on the various groups so we don't face armies of clones?

I hope this doesn't sound sarcastic.
I'm asking because I'm honestly curious not because I think it ought to be trivial.

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As far as I'm aware, it's not

As far as I'm aware, it's not super hard, it can just sometimes run up against certain limitations like "We have no idea how to make it differentiate between gendered voice files, so you're going to end up hearing these massive macho men grunt like girls now and then" which in itself isn't actually difficult to fix.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Excuse me for the necro-post,

Excuse me for the necro-post, but, have you read up on taoist sorcery and general far-east magics? There are people outside of China in the far east that take Taoism pretty seriously (China itself had that Mao thing so they don't deal with Taoist magic anymore) so.. might be neat to include some things. Charms, spirits, rituals, possessions, spookiness! I have limited experience with "magick" in general but, it probably makes for good lore.

http://english.grimoar.cz/ (Digital library on "magick" books. Worth a read if you're bored)

http://english.grimoar.cz/?Loc=key&Lng=2&New=470 (Specifically an entry for a .pdf on taoism. Again, if you're bored and perfectly willing to get SPOOKED)