Discuss: This was not easy. And it's not finished.

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warcabbit
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Discuss: This was not easy. And it's not finished.

Talk about the update here!

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Empyrean
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Where is it? Where is it

Where is it? Where is it? Kickstarer page, no... Facebook page, no... News page, no...

Just kidding, I know it takes a bit to get it all out :P.

Edit- THERE it is! Gonna go look!!!

O_O

SsssqqQQQqqeeEEEEEEEEEEE!

Ok, I know some will be underwhelmed that everything doesn't look "ready to play", but the underlying structure is there to possibly exceed even Black Desert--at least in the range of body options.

It's not pretty yet, but the functionality is impressive.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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https://www.kickstarter.com

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/1509371

*Goes off to read it, in lieu of actually watching the video until I get home*

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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Geveo
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Great to see progress like

Great to see progress like this.

I've been a programmer, I know it can be a beast just getting something to compile and run at all, much less to get it to do what you want. Kudos to the whole team. You're the heroes here.

islandtrevor72
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Very Impressive.

Very Impressive.
And gives me a strong idea how your models are designed. A very good combination of scalable rigging and morphs.
I personally think the more extreme limits of model manipulation (notably but not limited to the arms and legs extending/compacting) will just make the animators and clothing/item model makers job unnecessarily difficult....but that's a personal opinion and not an actual criticism.
I am both optimistic and skeptical for a 'sooner than later' release of the CC. Optimistic because this is much further than I had thought you were in the development of the CC but skeptical because of all the other little features a CC needs that cannot be properly displayed in a short video as well as almost no examples of completed costumes. Without those being nailed down ... the CC cannot be released (or rather probably shouldn't be).
I do sympathize with the difficulties in dealing with hair objects for an adjustable model. Actually any overlay, texture or separate prop designed to work with an adjustable model is time consuming, frustrating and difficult to work with but hair objects are some of the worst cases.

Congratulations on a very informative and advanced update. Please keep up the good work.

Rigel
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Awesome update!!!The

Awesome update!!!

The flexibility of the character models is astounding!!!

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Awesome update. I share the

Awesome update. I share the concerns about some of the sliders (those arms were crazy...), but this is a huge step in the right direction.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Loved the update, keep up the

Loved the update, keep up the good work. The dream continues, thanks to the entire team.

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We'll determined what upper

We'll determined what upper and lower limits game limitations demand as we go, and build them in. We'll also have advanced and simple modes for most or all customization options, so you don't get overwhelmed until you want to be.

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Wow! Looks awesome. If

Wow! Looks awesome. If this works, it will allow us far more creativity than we had in CoH. Kudos to you all!

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It's exciting that, by

It's exciting that, by building in that level of possible model manipulation, they can always limit it as needed but always work towards being able to allow more an more.

This game is being designed for POTENTIAL from the ground up. If they can just get it flying, it'll be able to grow and mature with even less limitations than CoH had.

TAKE. MY. MONEY.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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OK, after watching the video

OK, after watching the video (on Fire via phone WiFi, as I don't want to wait until I get home tomorrow morning), I have observations:
Things affecting the length of the legs are moving the position of the feet, not the body.
This screen is too small to do the video justice, so I will be watching it again at home.
This was worth waiting an extra week for.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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avelworldcreator
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Thank you very much for the

Thank you very much for the kind comments.

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Shadow Elusive wrote: We'll
Shadow Elusive wrote:

We'll determined what upper and lower limits game limitations demand as we go, and build them in. We'll also have advanced and simple modes for most or all customization options, so you don't get overwhelmed until you want to be.

GREAT NEWS! I remember asking for this months ago :)

Also, I like that monstrous extremes are allowed in the limbs: I'd rather be able to make a freak and never do it, than be limited from making one (a la CoH). That being said, those features will come in handy for making non-human characters such as robots and aliens.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

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I plan to leave the slider

I plan to leave the slider limits as they are unless it causes substantial technical problems. I didn't manage to get the sliders integrated into the sci-fi character room there and function in time for this video hence me doing that thing with the in another project that had them functioning already. It had issues that I could not always grab the slider and wound up rotating the scene. My planned UI for that should not have those issues. We actually had a running program last week but did not have time to properly edit the video and integrate all the elements so we pushed it to today. Production is really going that good. What you saw was about two weeks of work taking a project from ground zero and putting all our previous work together in it. It's only going to get better.

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The moment we've been waiting

The moment we've been waiting for - the character creator is now in a semi-viable state!

I can't wait to get my hands on this thing. well done, all of you! this looks amazing! Or, well, you know. It will. It looks amazing for the progress level it's at.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

avelworldcreator
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desviper wrote: Shadow
desviper wrote:

Shadow Elusive wrote: We'll determined what upper and lower limits game limitations demand as we go, and build them in. We'll also have advanced and simple modes for most or all customization options, so you don't get overwhelmed until you want to be.GREAT NEWS! I remember asking for this months ago :)Also, I like that monstrous extremes are allowed in the limbs: I'd rather be able to make a freak and never do it, than be limited from making one (a la CoH). That being said, those features will come in handy for making non-human characters such as robots and aliens.

desviper, you would be interested to know that the original model for the sun and planets scene was created for us by the guy who did your avatar. I just noticed your signature. He also is the guy who designed the logo you see by the developer names (I put that in place when I put our first forums together but the art is properly credited to him.)

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Yes, Mr. November has his

Yes, Mr. November has his very own thread in this forum's Media section. Love his work! http://cityoftitans.com/forum/novembers-notes

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Thanks, Team!The vid was

Thanks, Team!

The vid was nomtastic and this achievement is quite nomworthy!

Keep up the nomtabbylous work!

*hugglecates and headbonkinates the folks who brought her this glimpse of the character creator*

*purrs quite throatily*

*flops on to her side and takes a nap*

*dreams of Mr. Boots!*

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Amerikatt mentally compels YOU to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d7ZPYFY9iA

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Wow! Truly impressive work

Wow! Truly impressive work guys! I don't know any other game out there which has such a versatile model making! Really looking forward to trying it out!

The Force be with You!
- Shakti-Maia

"...For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It’s energy surrounds us and binds us..." - Yoda

avelworldcreator
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Fireheart wrote: Yes, Mr.
Fireheart wrote:

Yes, Mr. November has his very own thread in this forum's Media section. Love his work! http://cityoftitans.com/forum/novembers-notesBe Well!
Fireheart

Thanks for letting me know about that. I just posted in that thread because of that information. The sun/planet sequence work was my doing but MikeNovember did the original video and concept. Maybe someday I can release the old version and you can compare the two.

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avelworldcreator
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Shakti-Maia wrote: Wow!
Shakti-Maia wrote:

Wow! Truly impressive work guys! I don't know any other game out there which has such a versatile model making! Really looking forward to trying it out!

Because of time issues I didn't do the face sliders. I hope to showcase that when the update schedule comes around to it again.

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I am EXCITED!

I am EXCITED!

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I dreamt of the Eden trial

I dreamt of the Eden trial last night..perhaps because i watched some of mt recorded AE vids on YouTube. You have no idea how much i miss the game but I dream of the day when my character can look so authentic in the unreal engine. Keep up the good work, we're all counting on you.

CoH addict for 8+ years...and counting

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Outstanding update, folks. I

Outstanding update, folks! I think it hit the trifecta of a tech update: (1) something oh so shiny to show off, (2) an explanation of the really important but less shiny achievements that have been made, and (3) a look inside the development process, problems and all. The inclusion of 2 and 3 make 1 all the richer, because they explain any 'unpolished' issues.

It's funny, as exciting as the Avatar Builder is, I had the biggest emotional response to the part leading up to the AB, because (if I understand correctly) we were seeing the actual update and login between client and server. It was like a vision of the future, on that glorious day when we first log into the game....

A couple questions, just out of curiosity:
a) The part of the screen where it says "Nothing at all" -- is that a Message of the Day area for patch notes, downtime notices, etc?
b) What's the significance of the planets screen? Is that MWM's new logo, what with the worlds and all?

Very glad to hear we will have advanced and simple modes. As others have said, I might go with simple standards most of the time, but knowing there's an option to tinker with sliders to that degree is great news.

Would it be possible to have a Default button on each slider that sets it back to the base value determined by the simple settings? I'm thinking of a system that would allow us to use the simple settings (or maybe even body templates?) to get the general shape we want, but then when we go off the rails tinkering in Advanced mode we can get back to the settings we selected in Simple mode as opposed to some global default. It would be nice if we could do this per individual slider as well as having a Reset All button.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Yay! Very happy to see this!

Yay! Very happy to see this!

"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
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This looks very nice and

This looks very nice and excites me for the future. Although I would assume that the arm length option and the hip position option could certainly produce some weird looking results. Considering how this is a superhero MMO though I can pass that off as ''Powers be bullshit''.

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VERY nice work so far!

VERY nice work so far! Looking forward to the next installment.

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Congratulations, everyone! We

Congratulations, everyone! We have a game. There may not be much in the game, yet, but we have a game.

Needless to say, I'm also in the "everything about this video is awesome" category. It certainly appears that people shouldn't have any trouble creating suitably androgynous characters with this model. Like Cinnder, I also appreciated the explanation behind the delay and why this video is such a big deal.

Squee!

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Hail Beard!

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That update was ahhhhhmazing!

That update was ahhhhhmazing!! So looking forward to getting into the CC and see what creations can be made. Everything is looking great, can't wait for the next updates!

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
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Okay, seeing a Login screen I

Okay, seeing a Login screen I knew right away we were a step closer. An active patcher our little baby growing up! Yeah, I squeaked knowing what that login meant.

The character creation coming along very nicely already I want to get my hands on it to see how much I can do. A slender man with very long fingers to perhaps an intelligent Gorilla! I know with a great CC I can get at least one more player for the game.

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/em applauds

/em applauds

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Great work. I love the Tyche

Great work. I love the Tyche art!

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I'll just quickly jump in

I'll just quickly jump in with everyone else in saying it's a "YYUUUGGGEEEE" thing to finally see this kind of progress and I congratulate MWM for all their efforts on this. Obviously it's going to be hard to wait to see what comes next but every baby step gets us closer to the goal.

desviper wrote:

Also, I like that monstrous extremes are allowed in the limbs: I'd rather be able to make a freak and never do it, than be limited from making one (a la CoH). That being said, those features will come in handy for making non-human characters such as robots and aliens.

Nyktos wrote:

Although I would assume that the arm length option and the hip position option could certainly produce some weird looking results. Considering how this is a superhero MMO though I can pass that off as ''Powers be bullshit''.

I really wouldn't read too much into the "hyper-extreme" results the sliders are currently allowing for things like the arms and hips. You've got to remember that what we're looking at here is a product that might be, at best, like maybe 25% complete. It's only natural for there to be a large number of "rough edges" that still need to be tweaked/adjusted before it's anywhere close to being considered done. I wouldn't be surprised to see the limits allowed for most of these sliders scaled back to some degree before the whole thing is ready for official beta testing.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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JayBezz wrote: Great work.
JayBezz wrote:

Great work. I love the Tyche art!

OOH! +1

I forgot to comment on that amid all the other awesomeness, but I paused and looked at that art for a while. Really nice.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Wow. Lots of questions! I

Wow. Lots of questions!

I figure on us have a MotD (Message of the Day) at the login stage. The appearance of that isn't necessarily final.

The planets are a branding thing (we are "Missing Worlds Media, Inc.") which took me about a day or two to assemble. I have an original video by MikeNovember I based it on he made for us about three years ago with our old logos and tentative game titles. If management thinks it wise I'm quite happy to share that. Opening sequences with game/company branding are a game staple. The material files for the "Earths" come from this site and I think it's only proper to give credit where credit is due: http://planetpixelemporium.com/
The Sun's texture is a blend of materials and the video is too short for you to see that it has mobile plasmas circulating. 20 seconds is pretty short if you want to take in a lot of details (city lights on the night side, moving cloud patterns, etc.)

The lobby screen I hope to have it rotate the iconic character or even be able to be set blank in that corner. The layout there has barely begun and I've got some things I'm currently researching that, if I can get them to work, will be a step up from the usual character select. That's not the only thing we are discussing for that stage either. But our art team has done wonders and I'm proud to showcase their work when I'm able. We are a team and everything shown here took all of us. I expect to provide an adequate credits display at some point and I hope to more than just list names (or nicknames for those who prefer their privacy).

Limits on character appearance I'm not sure about yet. I'm not adverse to the weirdness if it doesn't create technical problems or reduce playability.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it already but what you aren't seeing is the existence of a local game settings save file and a player save file (which I expect to pull information off of our account servers). Another accomplishment was actually generating a distributable package and not just a development version. I hope to accomplish the next stage of creating the proper installers. Sadly my system isn't set up to produce Mac or some other versions of the game yet. That's on the list though.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Limits on character appearance I'm not sure about yet. I'm not adverse to the weirdness if it doesn't create technical problems or reduce playability.

To be clear I'm all for letting the body sliders go as far as they can to produce the "weirdness" you're talking about.
I've just been in the software development game for enough decades to realize that you very well may have to arbitrarily scale some of the possible "weirdness" back a notch or two just in case you run into currently unforeseen problems with animations, costume items or somesuch. Basically I was just trying to put the more general word of caution out there that "anything you see here can still change" and I wanted to warn people just because things like the arms and hips are "very adjustable" now doesn't mean that's exactly how things are going to look come launch day.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Ohhhh, amazing update. This

Ohhhh, amazing update. This has gotten me even more pumped for the game.

Even though it would be fun to have that large a "span" in leg and arm length (it looks like you can do 10 foot arms and 5 inch legs) I highly doubt it will be retained in the final release.

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Achievement Unlocked!!

Achievement Unlocked!!!

INSPIRATION: Managed


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OMGOMGOMG. The paper doll

OMGOMGOMG. The paper doll character creator is on the horizon!

Way off, on the horizon, but it's there!

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/thumbsupFinished or not,

/thumbsup

Finished or not, what a great update!!! It's progress and progress I can understand, lol. Great music too, appropriate and makes me want to glide over the city seeking out evil to squash. It is always great to hear you say something is difficult but you overcame it. That means the team is learning and you are able to stay on target for your vision, not to mention the 'minor' benefit of inspiring confidence. :)

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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blacke4dawn wrote: Even
blacke4dawn wrote:

Even though it would be fun to have that large a "span" in leg and arm length (it looks like you can do 10 foot arms and 5 inch legs) I highly doubt it will be retained in the final release.

Exactly. For example if the current slider allows for arm length to go all the way from say something like 6 inches to 10 feet I suspect they'll find that those extremes will cause various problems. Even if they have to cut it back so that the arm range is only like 1 foot to 5 feet that'll still be a pretty huge range for that slider and it's still a heck of a lot more variability than we had in CoH. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Fantastic stuff! The Char

Fantastic stuff! The Char Editor is already looking like it will blow the other Hero Games out of the water! Finally and Editor that get's +Size bodies right! A HUGE Achievement!(Pardon the pun lol)

One thing I would like to know is if we'll ever be able to scale limbs individually? I can see there maybe being issues with scaling legs different from one another, but surely we can do arms at the very least? I like my crazy post appoc mutant peoples! :D

Also, any chance we'll be able to attach another set of arms to our models? Would be awesome to have 4 armed brutes/creatures. Maybe even 6 armed wall crawlers! lol

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This is my first post. Just

This is my first post. Just discovered you guys. I've often found that the best art is produced by those who are passionate about it, and you all certainly fit the bill. I always try MMORPG's for a few weeks, then quit, either due to lack of gameplay or lack of customization. Given that you are absolutely grinding the latter complaint into dust, I'm going to be watching this site from now on.

I know it's likely presumptuous to ask for specific information this early in the process. However, I have a very serious, supremely important, absolutely vital question about this video...

Will tails be tied to another body part for scaling or will they have their own slider? Thanks. >^.^<

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I've gotta stop looking over

I've gotta stop looking over my CoH harem and contemplating how I would've applied these design options if they'd been available back then.

Some of my character revamps are going to look *quite* different....

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BiotopeZ wrote: This is my
BiotopeZ wrote:

This is my first post. Just discovered you guys. I've often found that the best art is produced by those who are passionate about it, and you all certainly fit the bill. I always try MMORPG's for a few weeks, then quit, either due to lack of gameplay or lack of customization. Given that you are absolutely grinding the latter complaint into dust, I'm going to be watching this site from now on.

Welcome to the party as they say. :)

BiotopeZ wrote:

I know it's likely presumptuous to ask for specific information this early in the process. However, I have a very serious, supremely important, absolutely vital question about this video...
Will tails be tied to another body part for scaling or will they have their own slider? Thanks. >^.^<

This is a good question. Tails in the original City of Heroes game could not be adjusted for size but with the greater flexibility this game should provide I would think it'd be a relatively easy option to implement. At the very least it should be possible assuming the Devs can get around to it.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lothic
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Cooltastic wrote: One thing I
Cooltastic wrote:

One thing I would like to know is if we'll ever be able to scale limbs individually? I can see there maybe being issues with scaling legs different from one another, but surely we can do arms at the very least? I like my crazy post appoc mutant peoples! :D

Don't know about all limbs but it would seem like being able to have your left and right arms be different shapes/lengths should be relatively doable.

Cooltastic wrote:

Also, any chance we'll be able to attach another set of arms to our models? Would be awesome to have 4 armed brutes/creatures. Maybe even 6 armed wall crawlers! lol

People have talked about this possibility already. Due to how the male and female character models are being handled in this game it would probably take an entirely new set of models to handle different numbers of arms/legs not to mention all the costume item changes and animations you'd need to support it. The general conclusion was that it was possible but would at the very least be a "long time after launch" type update.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Baalumbral wrote: I've gotta
Baalumbral wrote:

I've gotta stop looking over my CoH harem and contemplating how I would've applied these design options if they'd been available back then.Some of my character revamps are going to look *quite* different....

There were a number of character concepts I "tried" to do in CoH but were never really able to pull them off due to the limitations of that game. From what little I've seen from this latest video I see that at least several of my ideas will be far more "doable" in CoT than they ever were in CoH. ;)

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looking good guys and gals!

looking good guys and gals! I am looking forward to seeing more.

If I had one request, which would obviously implemented later I assume, please include some kind of reference for the height of the character. the height bar's could be transparent or solid (behind the character like a suspect line-up wall). it would be a nice addition versus having to guess at the relative height of a character when making them. just a thought.

again...it looks great and I am excited to see more! :)

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whiteperegrine wrote: If I
whiteperegrine wrote:

If I had one request, which would obviously implemented later I assume, please include some kind of reference for the height of the character. the height bar's could be transparent or solid (behind the character like a suspect line-up wall). it would be a nice addition versus having to guess at the relative height of a character when making them. just a thought.

This suggestion goes hand-in-hand with this thread that popped up earlier.
I see no reason why some kind of overall height values could not be generated based on the ticks of the height slider(s). Again this would not have to involve precise, to-scale measurements relative to the game world but could be roughly estimated for the benefit of the players. This likely could be included as a launch day feature.

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agreed, it doesn't need to be

agreed, it doesn't need to be precise but a generalization...by foot would work well. as you mentioned it could be incorporated into the slider itself with lil tick marks (as possibly numbers representing the general height). eitherway, it is nice to see this lil update. gives a bit more hope that this will work out in the end and being enjoyable. :)

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Cooltastic wrote: Fantastic
Cooltastic wrote:

Fantastic stuff! The Char Editor is already looking like it will blow the other Hero Games out of the water! Finally and Editor that get's +Size bodies right! A HUGE Achievement!(Pardon the pun lol)One thing I would like to know is if we'll ever be able to scale limbs individually? I can see there maybe being issues with scaling legs different from one another, but surely we can do arms at the very least? I like my crazy post appoc mutant peoples! :DAlso, any chance we'll be able to attach another set of arms to our models? Would be awesome to have 4 armed brutes/creatures. Maybe even 6 armed wall crawlers! lol

Yes, individual limb lengths (other than legs of course - feet should still be doable) should be in the cards. In fact I was pondering that very code a few minutes ago.

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BiotopeZ wrote: This is my
BiotopeZ wrote:

This is my first post. Just discovered you guys. I've often found that the best art is produced by those who are passionate about it, and you all certainly fit the bill. I always try MMORPG's for a few weeks, then quit, either due to lack of gameplay or lack of customization. Given that you are absolutely grinding the latter complaint into dust, I'm going to be watching this site from now on.I know it's likely presumptuous to ask for specific information this early in the process. However, I have a very serious, supremely important, absolutely vital question about this video...Will tails be tied to another body part for scaling or will they have their own slider? Thanks. >^.^<

I'm pretty sure tails (and wings) will have their own sliders.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Cooltastic wrote: Fantastic stuff! The Char Editor is already looking like it will blow the other Hero Games out of the water! Finally and Editor that get's +Size bodies right! A HUGE Achievement!(Pardon the pun lol)One thing I would like to know is if we'll ever be able to scale limbs individually? I can see there maybe being issues with scaling legs different from one another, but surely we can do arms at the very least? I like my crazy post appoc mutant peoples! :DAlso, any chance we'll be able to attach another set of arms to our models? Would be awesome to have 4 armed brutes/creatures. Maybe even 6 armed wall crawlers! lolYes, individual limb lengths (other than legs of course - feet should still be doable) should be in the cards. In fact I was pondering that very code a few minutes ago.

Hmm, thinking a step further on this then the other sliders (muscles, fat, overall size) would be very nice to have as well, and those should work just fine for legs as well.

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Great Update.Cant wait to see

Great Update.

Cant wait to see more features added, as well as Swapping out Bot Limbs and such later down the road, and how will that work from a technical side. :p

Also, Its cool that Heroes and Villains are doing a Garage Tune Up as the background location, but I'm hoping for 2 or 3 more, like The Zig, Secret Layer (just a small'ish apartment with a nightstand and a mirror.. and perhaps a walk in closet barely visible to the side).
Edit: or a UGC made area from the Base Builder users can pick that you made, or maybe others made.

Looks good so far. Want to see the UI soon though. ;D

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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

looking good guys and gals! I am looking forward to seeing more. If I had one request, which would obviously implemented later I assume, please include some kind of reference for the height of the character. the height bar's could be transparent or solid (behind the character like a suspect line-up wall). it would be a nice addition versus having to guess at the relative height of a character when making them. just a thought. again...it looks great and I am excited to see more! :)

Good idea! Let me see if I can do something like that. I'll have to get some numbers so I have a scale in place but I don't think that should be that hard.

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Izzy wrote: Great Update
Izzy wrote:

Great Update.Cant wait to see more features added, as well as Swapping out Bot Limbs and such later down the road, and how will that work from a technical side. :pAlso, Its cool that Heroes and Villains are doing a Garage Tune Up as the background location, but I'm hoping for 2 or 3 more, like The Zig, Secret Layer (just a small'ish apartment with a nightstand and a mirror.. and perhaps a walk in closet barely visible to the side). Looks good so far. Want to see the UI soon though. ;D

I'm working on the "multiple location" thing. And there is UI already mapped out and partly put together. I'm having to move all that stuff from an earlier development project and clean it up. Wasn't ready for the video unfortunately. I wanted the sliders in place there but ran out of time.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote: Cooltastic wrote: Fantastic stuff! The Char Editor is already looking like it will blow the other Hero Games out of the water! Finally and Editor that get's +Size bodies right! A HUGE Achievement!(Pardon the pun lol)One thing I would like to know is if we'll ever be able to scale limbs individually? I can see there maybe being issues with scaling legs different from one another, but surely we can do arms at the very least? I like my crazy post appoc mutant peoples! :DAlso, any chance we'll be able to attach another set of arms to our models? Would be awesome to have 4 armed brutes/creatures. Maybe even 6 armed wall crawlers! lolYes, individual limb lengths (other than legs of course - feet should still be doable) should be in the cards. In fact I was pondering that very code a few minutes ago.Hmm, thinking a step further on this then the other sliders (muscles, fat, overall size) would be very nice to have as well, and those should work just fine for legs as well.

Huh? We have sliders for fat, muscle, overall size. Did I miss something?

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Wow - great update guys! Very

Wow - great update guys! Very exciting to see all the individual parts starting to come together!

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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

/thumbsupGreat music too, appropriate and makes me want to glide over the city seeking out evil to squash.

Another +1, on second watch I really was feeling the music. I could see it becoming music that gives me the same feeling that the old CoH music did.

Also, on second watch, I thought of a question that I don't think I've seen here, though it has been brought up on other threads--how will the "scale" slider interact with indoor areas and spaces, and thresholds?

Just to make sure I'm being clear, how will someone at very large scale fit into/through thresholds and indoor areas that are too small for them, ie., designed for normal human proportions?

Will you just limit the scale so that this doesn't get too bad, or is there a method in mind to deal with very large scaled heroes in indoor spaces or passing through thresholds?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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avelworldcreator wrote: Huh?
avelworldcreator wrote:

Huh? We have sliders for fat, muscle, overall size. Did I miss something?

I see I expressed it a bit wrong (should have used slashes instead of commas), but you do have a slider for the overall "thickness" of the limbs that includes the muscle tone and "fatness" of a person. Though it would probably be better to separate out the muscle tone/fatness in its own slider since one can be bulky/large without having that much of visible muscles or fat.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

blacke4dawn wrote: avelworldcreator wrote: Cooltastic wrote: Fantastic stuff! The Char Editor is already looking like it will blow the other Hero Games out of the water! Finally and Editor that get's +Size bodies right! A HUGE Achievement!(Pardon the pun lol)One thing I would like to know is if we'll ever be able to scale limbs individually? I can see there maybe being issues with scaling legs different from one another, but surely we can do arms at the very least? I like my crazy post appoc mutant peoples! :DAlso, any chance we'll be able to attach another set of arms to our models? Would be awesome to have 4 armed brutes/creatures. Maybe even 6 armed wall crawlers! lolYes, individual limb lengths (other than legs of course - feet should still be doable) should be in the cards. In fact I was pondering that very code a few minutes ago.Hmm, thinking a step further on this then the other sliders (muscles, fat, overall size) would be very nice to have as well, and those should work just fine for legs as well.Huh? We have sliders for fat, muscle, overall size. Did I miss something?

He wants us to have all that for the tail, specifically. Which is...not happening.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote: Huh? We have sliders for fat, muscle, overall size. Did I miss something?I see I expressed it a bit wrong (should have used slashes instead of commas), but you do have a slider for the overall "thickness" of the limbs that includes the muscle tone and "fatness" of a person. Though it would probably be better to separate out the muscle tone/fatness in its own slider since one can be bulky/large without having that much of visible muscles or fat.

Fatness is its own slider as is muscle. Hmm. I realize I didn't model those in combination in the video. And each of the limbs also has a "bulk" slider. Is that more like what you mean?

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I'm pretty sure what he's

I'm pretty sure what he's getting at is that you should be able to adjust the "Bulk" of each leg separately but probably not the "Length" as that would most likely cause problems.

Also, thx for all the answers and consider me HYPED! :D

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote: Huh? We have sliders for fat, muscle, overall size. Did I miss something?
I see I expressed it a bit wrong (should have used slashes instead of commas), but you do have a slider for the overall "thickness" of the limbs that includes the muscle tone and "fatness" of a person. Though it would probably be better to separate out the muscle tone/fatness in its own slider since one can be bulky/large without having that much of visible muscles or fat.

I think I saw Leg and Arm Bulk sliders, separate from a Torso Bulk slider, separate from Muscle and Fat... Quite a lot of detail control at that. Which is one of the reasons I brought up numerical control in that Suggestions thread - So much detail, that it may be difficult to keep control of with just free-hand sliders.

The question about Tails and a separate set of sliders for Tail-length and Bulk does seem appropriate. In CoH, some tail designs were too fat or too skinny, too short or too long for my character concept - it would have been nice to be able to adjust that. It does seem like it should be a additional display, that would only appear if the character was flagged as having a tail.

I like the idea suggested earlier, that the actual 'slider control interface' would be a pop-up item, triggered by selecting a visual slider 'icon'. Thus, less UI real-estate would be used and a casual/accidental mouse-flick might not disorder a half-hour of careful adjustments. I don't know if having all of those active elements on the screen, at the same time, causes issues, or not.

One other thing I'd love to see is the freedom to Zoom and View any part of the hero, in fine detail, while tweaking these sliders. Especially once you consider the issue of Costumes over the skin. Thus, I'd want to be able to devote more of the screen-space to the Character and less to the UI sometimes.

In CoH it was practically impossible to see the characters Feet, for instance.

Be Well!
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THANK YOU! This is a very

THANK YOU! This is a very welcome update!
Looking at the sliders, we are going to have some very interesting heroes. With the max length arms the animators will need to add a new gibbon like running style with the arms held over the head...

The backgrounds are perfect, the art is first rate. I just cannot wait until the skins, faces and hairs are done.

If you guys haven't already done so, give the art team a slap on the back, This is GREAT!

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Cooltastic wrote: I'm pretty
Cooltastic wrote:

I'm pretty sure what he's getting at is that you should be able to adjust the "Bulk" of each leg separately but probably not the "Length" as that would most likely cause problems.Also, thx for all the answers and consider me HYPED! :D

Actually I can set thing up for individual limbs and have already planned to do so. First I want the get existing controls I've already been given integrated into the UI, and then I'll expand from there. Thanks for the clarification of the question.

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Fireheart wrote: blacke4dawn
Fireheart wrote:

blacke4dawn wrote: avelworldcreator wrote: Huh? We have sliders for fat, muscle, overall size. Did I miss something?
I see I expressed it a bit wrong (should have used slashes instead of commas), but you do have a slider for the overall "thickness" of the limbs that includes the muscle tone and "fatness" of a person. Though it would probably be better to separate out the muscle tone/fatness in its own slider since one can be bulky/large without having that much of visible muscles or fat.I think I saw Leg and Arm Bulk sliders, separate from a Torso Bulk slider, separate from Muscle and Fat... Quite a lot of detail control at that. Which is one of the reasons I brought up numerical control in that Suggestions thread - So much detail, that it may be difficult to keep control of with just free-hand sliders.The question about Tails and a separate set of sliders for Tail-length and Bulk does seem appropriate. In CoH, some tail designs were too fat or too skinny, too short or too long for my character concept - it would have been nice to be able to adjust that. It does seem like it should be a additional display, that would only appear if the character was flagged as having a tail.I like the idea suggested earlier, that the actual 'slider control interface' would be a pop-up item, triggered by selecting a visual slider 'icon'. Thus, less UI real-estate would be used and a casual/accidental mouse-flick might not disorder a half-hour of careful adjustments. I don't know if having all of those active elements on the screen, at the same time, causes issues, or not.One other thing I'd love to see is the freedom to Zoom and View any part of the hero, in fine detail, while tweaking these sliders. Especially once you consider the issue of Costumes over the skin. Thus, I'd want to be able to devote more of the screen-space to the Character and less to the UI sometimes.In CoH it was practically impossible to see the characters Feet, for instance.Be Well!
Fireheart

The sliders I will be putting inside a tabbed panel in the UI section of the design screen to isolate them. I simply didn't have time to get that prepared with this planned update positing. I'll be adding a numeric entry device and, giving credit as your idea, I'll be adding a lock to each slider. We have already planned on Picture-In-Picture zoom on the area being worked on

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Seeing the video and the

Seeing the video and the progress is just amazing! There's going to be so many weird, but amazing looking heroes when this is out! I can't wait to see what people create! I'm even more excited when they show super powers in the early stages! But that's still a long ways! Anyway! Great job! I look forward to more of these updates!

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Fatness is its own slider as is muscle. Hmm. I realize I didn't model those in combination in the video. And each of the limbs also has a "bulk" slider. Is that more like what you mean?

Yes, exactly.

As for an implementation specific suggestion I highly recommend a button for being able to lock the side-specific sliders together so they move in unison, and it being on by default.

Shadow Elusive wrote:

He wants us to have all that for the tail, specifically. Which is...not happening.

No, where did I say tail? We were talking about individual limb lengths between left and right side so I thought to specify to also include individual muscle/fat/bulk sliders for each limb where appropriate.

Though since you do bring it up I do expect length and bulk sliders for tails, and "overall size" for wings.

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great update.

great update.
i couldn't stop grinning the whole time i watched the video.
it's really great to see this progress.
kudos to everyone involved in this game.
keep up the great work, your efforts are truly appreciated.

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I... wow, I... wow..., I-I...

I... wow, I... wow..., I-I...

/slaps forehead

Ok, now that I have my speech pattern straight, I can speech. Seeing as this video really blew my mind on how much has been done, I gotta say, I am really excited to see what else is in store in the future. You guys did a hell of a job with this, and I'm one of those people who tends to spend almost hours in CC just to get things right before I jump in the game. It's part of what made me love CoH when I first played it cause at the time, it was a robust and detailed CC. This makes me so happy to know that I can create my longtime RP Character (28 years to be exact) as detailed as I would be able to. I know for sure that I'll be in this CC for hours, just like I once was in CoH. You guys seriously are kicking ass, I can't wait to see what else ya got, and certainly I can't wait til the game is officially done. Keep up the great work! :D

/squee!

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Excellent. Heroic effort by

Excellent. Heroic effort by AvelWorldCreator and the team behind all of the demonstrated capabilities in the video! Extra props for being very open to consider/agree on the value of the many constructive suggestions in this thread.

Music + many-Earths opening video sent shivers down my spine - in the best possible way - and I could definitely get used to that.

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When you guys said "we might

When you guys said "we might spend Christmas together in Titan City", I kinda figured you meant the character builder would be ready for testing some time in June. But at this rate, maybe it will be sooner?

In any case, I am excited like a lot of people here. Just read the whole discussion thread and unfortunately can not add anything that hasn't been covered. You guys are working on hair, but without seeing the hair, I can't offer thoughts on that. So for now, I'll just echo what the others are saying; keep up the amazing work!

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Would individual arm lengths

Would individual arm lengths be a problem for animations from certain powersets, such as using a two-handed weapon?

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avelworldcreator wrote: The
avelworldcreator wrote:

The sliders I will be putting inside a tabbed panel in the UI section of the design screen to isolate them. I simply didn't have time to get that prepared with this planned update positing. I'll be adding a numeric entry device and, giving credit as your idea, I'll be adding a lock to each slider. We have already planned on Picture-In-Picture zoom on the area being worked on,

Excellent!

Be Well!
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Pyromantic wrote: Would
Pyromantic wrote:

Would individual arm lengths be a problem for animations from certain powersets, such as using a two-handed weapon?

This was the point I was trying to make earlier. Having arms of extreme length (either super long or short) might be fine by themselves but they may make most animations related to them look silly or unworkable.
This is (again) why I suspect many of the "extreme" settings we currently see in this latest video will be geared back to slightly less extreme limits.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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avelworldcreator wrote: I'm
avelworldcreator wrote:

I'm working on the "multiple location" thing. And there is UI already mapped out and partly put together. I'm having to move all that stuff from an earlier development project and clean it up. Wasn't ready for the video unfortunately. I wanted the sliders in place there but ran out of time.

Something to take note of from Star Trek Online's costume editor ... the option to change the lighting and the stance of the avatar in the editor. I'm sure you can see the applicability of wanting to change the nature of the lighting on the avatar as soon as it gets mentioned, but the stance is something else. In STO, every character gets an idle stance, chosen in the costume editor, but having them do it all the time can obscure details you might want to see, so there's an option in there to put the character into a Neutral Stance where there's enough clearance to view parts and pieces of the avatar that might otherwise be inaccessible to viewing if they were in their idle animation as dictated by their stance.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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I am gonna preface this by

I am gonna preface this by saying that my concerns and desires are completely personal and do not necessarily reflect the games best interest. This deals specifically with body and face customization and has little to do with costumes.

My biggest concern with sliders that go to the extremes we saw in the teaser vid is that those extremes get used far too often for my tastes. Those extra long arms and bizarre body shapes seem to just call out to a class of player. Instead of the options being used in creative or interesting ways you find they get used more often than not for shock value. Those players are desperate for attention and become a distraction which breaks immersion. Like the class clown who makes farting noises in the back of the room....funny the first couple times but then just becomes annoying.
In the CoH past this wasn't a huge deal. It was limited to odd colors and mismatched outfits. You would pass them and forget them quickly because even though they were eyesores they were not so far removed from the realm of comic characters that they felt completely out of place.
Now with character creators getting more elaborate and powerful you are seeing a whole new breed of player created abominations that are so far removed from the aesthetic of the game that they actually have an influence on my enjoyment of the game. Please understand I don't mean that they ruin my enjoyment....they just lessen it somewhat.
Here are a few examples of what I mean.



These games have an abundance of these characters that you end up interacting with to some degree. And by abundance, I mean they are common enough that they can't be completely avoided. Ark: Survival Evolved in particular sees this type of (IMO) abuse of the character creator with a vast majority of players.

My feeling is that this degree of customization is not really needed in CoT (I don't think the gain in customization is worth the extra effort in animations, modeling and texturing as well as the drawbacks I mentioned) .....but I can see that I am in the minority so I propose a few ways to design the CC that might limit this from happening too much.

First I would strongly suggest that the creator be divided into beginner and advanced tabs.
In the beginner tab I would have at least 5 of each male and female body (not costume) pre-sets (young, athletic, muscular, heavy, obese) with a few other pre-sets like robot, androgynous, alien, beastial, ect, that players can pick from on the beginner tab. As well as a large list of face pre-sets. Possibly keep a few of the universal sliders in this section such as height, muscles or weight in the beginner tab but none of the extreme ones. Maybe even limit those beginner sliders to more human proportions.
I would make the advanced tab completely separate from the beginner tab requiring a confirmation pop-up to advance. In that tab I would keep the majority of the sliders.
Finally I would put markers on the dials that indicate human proportions. Just a little guideline to help players keep human proportions...not a restriction...more a helpful indicator.

Anyway, those are my feelings on what I would like to see.

Lothic
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islandtrevor72 wrote: My
islandtrevor72 wrote:

My feeling is that this degree of customization is not really needed in CoT (I don't think the gain in customization is worth the extra effort in animations, modeling and texturing as well as the drawbacks I mentioned) .....but I can see that I am in the minority

If you've been reading my posts on this thread you'll see that I effectively agree with you here.
To be clear I really do NOT believe what we saw in this recent video will represent the final finished product in terms of just how extreme many of the sliders will be allowed to go. I look at this as a first experimental cut at seeing what the game engine CAN provide, not necessarily what the game WILL provide once it has gone through a huge amount of tweaking and beta testing.
I very strongly suspect that Devs like avelworldcreator will, as time goes on, realize that many of the current slider extremes will have to be arbitrarily scaled back for all sorts of reasons including broken animations, costume item clipping, proper scaling with the surrounding game environment and so on.
I commend the Devs for wanting to start out "pushing the limits" where it comes to this kind of thing. But eventually they will figure out that readjusting their sliders a bit more conservatively will be the best way to satisfy all the concerns involved.
I wouldn't worry too much about this. The Devs literally have years of fine tuning ahead of them so I expect practically everything we've seen so far to change to some degree.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Quote: If you've been reading
Quote:

If you've been reading my posts on this thread you'll see that I effectively agree with you here.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. The Devs literally have years of fine tuning ahead of them so I expect practically everything we've seen so far to change to some degree.

Yes I noticed you and I agree on the mechanics of it...but my concern goes beyond just the mechanics.
Given that few have commented on the overall visual style of the game and the impact extreme sliders can have I felt this was important to say. Especially when many posters and avelworldcreator himself all seem to be pushing for even more extreme capabilities. I do agree that there will be changes to the limits of the avatar builder before release but I still worry what the changes may be.

I pointed out Ark: Survival Evolved because that was a game that allows for this type of inhuman customization and it is not used sparingly... its become the norm to see those monstrosities that players create. I doubt the intention of the devs of that game was for the vast majority of players to use the avatar builder in that manner but now its become an entrenched aspect. I would hate to have that kind of 'look at how weird I am' mentality to overshadow the creative aspect MWM is trying to foster.

Again, I am not trying to stifle anyone's vision of their character or hinder any kind of imaginative use of an extensive avatar builder. I just personally feel that careful consideration should be made before allowing all the extreme options.
My opinion only.... anyone can take it as they will.

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To a certain extent, I think

To a certain extent, I think any overuse of upper & lower bounds of the sliders in CoT will be mitigated by at least one factor - player motivation to roleplay or at least pursue character concepts. CoH was one of few MMOs that promoted (accidentally?) this approach to the game. I'm sure we could add reasons to a list beyond its (for its time) amazing character customization, decoupling appearance from character abilities, easy teaming and chatting / emoting... all of which strongly encouraged a population weighted in favor of thoughtful character-developers.

I think that Ark (pic#2) and Aion (pic#1) players are more likely to be playing for non-roleplay / non-character-development reasons (focused on pure gameplay, or PVP, or as free to play timesink, etc) and thus more likely to see the character creator as a side game or a means to an end (PvP optimization, trolling, joking with friends). My experience with Aion was that despite its impressive face-customizing options, getting "attached" to a character concept was difficult, due to its lack of level 1 costuming, its power sameness, and its lackluster teaming/chatting.

CoT players are much more likely to be investing money and time into the game due to its character-development potential. Of course there will be outliers created intentionally to fit an interesting character concept; no problem with that in my opinion. I'd estimate a low number of actual joke/troll characters in game at any time, due to their short lifespan in play. Sufficient instancing of content, the sheer size of the game map, and a strong ignore feature could keep their disruption (and thus their trollish appeal) to a minimum. As Lothic accurately notes, costume design & animation issues are another matter, and may impose slider limitations regardless.

Your point overall is a fair one, I also wouldn't want us to end up with an unexpectedly-epic claymation failure.

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Quote: To a certain extent, I
Quote:

To a certain extent, I think any overuse of upper & lower bounds of the sliders in CoT will be mitigated by at least one factor - player motivation to roleplay or at least pursue character concepts.

I don't hold the same faith in players that you do. I believe many players, especially at the early points in the games overall life, pay only a passing glance towards character concept and have no interest role playing in the least. I know personally I will not role play at all....ever... and that sometimes my 'character concept' is about the mechanics of the character and not some background I made up....sometimes I am more interested in just seeing how much power I can eek out of a character.
I don't think I am all that different than a majority of players out there. The kind of devoted player you are referencing is likely to be the minority for a good while after the game is released....long enough that the majority of casual players can influence the appeal of the game.

Quote:

I think that Ark (pic#2) and Aion (pic#1) players are more likely to be playing for non-roleplay / non-character-development reasons (focused on pure gameplay, or PVP, or as free to play timesink, etc) and thus more likely to see the character creator as a side game or a means to an end (PvP optimization, trolling, joking with friends).

This is exactly my point. There is no game mechanic advantage to creating those types of characters in a game like Ark or Aion and the only point to it is 'look at me...ain't I weird'.
It will take some time before those type of players get bored and find something new or turn into regulars who are more invested in the game. If the 'tone' of the character creator is set to bizarre in the beginning then it becomes that much harder to change that mindset in players. It will be even worse because upon CoT's release we will not have the vast variety of costuming options that CoH had in its prime making the body and face sliders that much more used by the attention seeking types.

Quote:

CoT players are much more likely to be investing money and time into the game due to its character-development potential. Of course there will be outliers created intentionally to fit an interesting character concept; no problem with that in my opinion. I'd estimate a low number of actual joke/troll characters in game at any time, due to their short lifespan in play. Sufficient instancing of content, the sheer size of the game map, and a strong ignore feature could keep their disruption (and thus their trollish appeal) to a minimum.

Again, I am not worried about the actual fans who are waiting for the games release, I am thinking about those who have a mild interest and jump in to check it out. It is not unreasonable to think about player retention of these people whose entire basis for entering is because they liked the Avengers movie. If some kind of fantastical abstract representation of a human is what they commonly create or its just a common character they see is, they might not even consciously be aware why they are not as invested or lose interest quickly. I am sure the devs have thought about this themselves but I still think this and many other concerns about extreme slider values impact on the game as a whole is important to say.

Quote:

As Lothic accurately notes, costume design & animation issues are another matter, and may impose slider limitations regardless.

Entirely possible. I made mention of the issues the sliders could cause with these aspects way back at the start of the thread. But the simple fact is those mechanical issues can be overcome with time and effort and I want to express my opinion that care should be taken in deciding to do so and if they do ... then some simple precautionary measures (such as beginner/advanced tabs, multiple pre-sets and guideline indicators) be taken.

I am not trying to insult AWC or the work he has done. I am just trying to present my opinion.

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Scott Jackson wrote: To a
Scott Jackson wrote:

To a certain extent, I think any overuse of upper & lower bounds of the sliders in CoT will be mitigated by at least one factor - player motivation to roleplay or at least pursue character concepts.
[...]
As Lothic accurately notes, costume design & animation issues are another matter, and may impose slider limitations regardless.
Your point overall is a fair one, I also wouldn't want us to end up with an unexpectedly-epic claymation failure.

I think the likely tweaking of the most extreme slider limits for "mechanical" reasons AND various subjective factors such as this game's expected strong RP orientation will BOTH keep the chances of seeing huge numbers of overtly "freak/joke" characters down to a relative minimum. Remember that CoH always had a relatively "mature" playerbase so there's no reason to think that won't be the case in CoT.
There's always going to be a few idiots regardless, and again as always if any of them actually cause any trouble via griefing/trolling they can always be reported to a GM.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Another thing to consider is

Another thing to consider is that depending on the actual costume used those kinds of abhorrent/freak proportions may actually look somewhat natural, making this "problem" potentially not as big as in other games that go for a mainly "human" look.

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Judging from the responses, I

Judging from the responses, I think I have been unable to accurately express my concerns. I cannot think of a better way to explain them so I will just let it be for now.

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First of all an amazing job

First of all an amazing job from all of you guys, what you have created is truly amazing.
Secondly, I don't think that setting limits simply because the character doesn't look nice would be the right decision to make if you want a fully enjoyable, customisable game.
Whether or not a person wants to create a hideous beast or a normal looking character if surly their choice, and would thusly be for their enjoyment.
Customisation is designed for the benefit and fun of all players joining the game. Surely whether or not the so called 'troll' character is right, is up to the player.
Additionally any troll players who create these characters only because they look funny won't be playing the game that often anyway, and even if they decide to really get into the game and still like the way that their character looks than that is the way they have decided to enjoy themselves. I don't think we should set limits on others just because of our personal preferences.

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Creating the model with all

Creating the model with all the extreme potential you've seen here was hard and had to be done now if we wanted to have them. Restricting those sliders, on the other hand, is easy and can be done at any time. If your concerns prove valid IslandTrevor (and I believe I do understand what they are), we can always act. But because so many players like it, we're going to be waiting until they do prove valid first. But we'll always be able to do something about it, so don't worry too much. Even while trying to allow for all sorts of goofiness, there is still a point of good taste past which we don't want to cross, and we'll be watching for that as well as we test.

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Quote: But because so many
Quote:

But because so many players like it, we're going to be waiting until they do prove valid first. But we'll always be able to do something about it, so don't worry too much.

I appreciate it Shadow. Games can get reputations that take considerable effort to change. Being aware and having some sort of safeguard in place before hand will make any issues easier to deal with for the future. It seems like you have indeed taken at least some consideration (I say 'at least' because I don't know the extent...not as an offhand insult) as to the long term impact this feature can have.
But again, I am well aware that my opinion as to the extremes that the Avatar builder can provide are of the minority which is why I made some suggestions that would not hinder creativity or remove options but instead act as a non-intrusive preventative measure just in case.
Using beginner and advanced tabs (as you yourself said) with a confirmation pop-up as well as some helpful pre-sets and guideline indicators on dials would go a long way towards that preventative measure in my opinion.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

avelworldcreator wrote: I'm working on the "multiple location" thing. And there is UI already mapped out and partly put together. I'm having to move all that stuff from an earlier development project and clean it up. Wasn't ready for the video unfortunately. I wanted the sliders in place there but ran out of time.Something to take note of from Star Trek Online's costume editor ... the option to change the lighting and the stance of the avatar in the editor. I'm sure you can see the applicability of wanting to change the nature of the lighting on the avatar as soon as it gets mentioned, but the stance is something else. In STO, every character gets an idle stance, chosen in the costume editor, but having them do it all the time can obscure details you might want to see, so there's an option in there to put the character into a Neutral Stance where there's enough clearance to view parts and pieces of the avatar that might otherwise be inaccessible to viewing if they were in their idle animation as dictated by their stance.

Actually have a panel planned already for just that stuff, i.e. lighting, background, pose, and anything else that applies to the environment.

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islandtrevor72 wrote: I am
islandtrevor72 wrote:

I am gonna preface this by saying that my concerns and desires are completely personal and do not necessarily reflect the games best interest. This deals specifically with body and face customization and has little to do with costumes.My biggest concern with sliders that go to the extremes we saw in the teaser vid is that those extremes get used far too often for my tastes. Those extra long arms and bizarre body shapes seem to just call out to a class of player. Instead of the options being used in creative or interesting ways you find they get used more often than not for shock value. Those players are desperate for attention and become a distraction which breaks immersion. Like the class clown who makes farting noises in the back of the room....funny the first couple times but then just becomes annoying.
In the CoH past this wasn't a huge deal. It was limited to odd colors and mismatched outfits. You would pass them and forget them quickly because even though they were eyesores they were not so far removed from the realm of comic characters that they felt completely out of place.
Now with character creators getting more elaborate and powerful you are seeing a whole new breed of player created abominations that are so far removed from the aesthetic of the game that they actually have an influence on my enjoyment of the game. Please understand I don't mean that they ruin my enjoyment....they just lessen it somewhat.
Here are a few examples of what I mean.
These games have an abundance of these characters that you end up interacting with to some degree. And by abundance, I mean they are common enough that they can't be completely avoided. Ark: Survival Evolved in particular sees this type of (IMO) abuse of the character creator with a vast majority of players. My feeling is that this degree of customization is not really needed in CoT (I don't think the gain in customization is worth the extra effort in animations, modeling and texturing as well as the drawbacks I mentioned) .....but I can see that I am in the minority so I propose a few ways to design the CC that might limit this from happening too much.First I would strongly suggest that the creator be divided into beginner and advanced tabs.
In the beginner tab I would have at least 5 of each male and female body (not costume) pre-sets (young, athletic, muscular, heavy, obese) with a few other pre-sets like robot, androgynous, alien, beastial, ect, that players can pick from on the beginner tab. As well as a large list of face pre-sets. Possibly keep a few of the universal sliders in this section such as height, muscles or weight in the beginner tab but none of the extreme ones. Maybe even limit those beginner sliders to more human proportions.
I would make the advanced tab completely separate from the beginner tab requiring a confirmation pop-up to advance. In that tab I would keep the majority of the sliders.
Finally I would put markers on the dials that indicate human proportions. Just a little guideline to help players keep human proportions...not a restriction...more a helpful indicator. Anyway, those are my feelings on what I would like to see.

Thought has been given to having "quick mode", "basic mode", and "advanced mode" for the panels. Also the players will have a number of starting slots body/costumes for each character with likely a future ability to add slots (like CoX). I'm wondering if we can add a built-in costume voting ability; we definitely need to make it easier to organize the costume contests and have community input influence costume designs. Hopefully our community manager can give additional input there.

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