Interesting. It'll be fun to work with or against these guys.

Good lore! Brings 3 updates together :)

Lore. Is that 4 weeks in a row now?

That and it was Halloween! :) How could we not let Lore tell a story for Halloween? :) I did an art update last week you might want to check it out. It was an update on art and kickstarter mogul fulfillment.

The art update only concerned the handful of people who purchased the Mogul perk correct? 68 people you said? (Congrats on the baby btw, I just had my 1st in April). And was the tech update the one with you telling us your server names?

Honestly I'm sorry if you think I'm complaining. I just feel like the responses in the discuss threads are getting smaller every week and I'm afraid you're going to lose your momentum without an update that feels more tangible than a story someone whips up or a picture of your 5 stack of servers.

The mogul update effects everyone. Even if you didn't buy a mogul those buildings are forever a part of our world now. Also it was almost 100 moguls. It's giving you a look into the world we are creating and it's not just our world it is hugely the backers world and of there ideas and creations that are breathing life into the project every week.

Our updates may not always be what you want to hear personally but it's a keep in touch and to let you all know we are still here and still busting our unpaid buts outside of our rl full time jobs and trying our hardest to make this dream become a reality for everyone. Also keep in mind we are not a full time company like Blizzard with hundreds of paid full time employees. We are making progress every week and we want to try and give you snippets and insight and take you along with us instead of doing what every gaming company out there does and shuts off all communication for the first 5+ years even before announcing -anything- you have us from day 1. You have to also understand that you have us 5 + years in advance that any other gaming company makes announcements or shares work.

I am sorry if you don't enjoy our updates. We try to give you guys some love while trying to hold back stuff for when the game goes live so there is the sense of wonder and exploration and awe and surprise.. It is a real hard balance to maintain. Trust me I struggle with it monthly on what gets released and what gets held back.

also thank you for the congrats.

You know, let's turn this around. Zero, you keep asking for 'not lore'. What, in your opinion, is 'not lore'?

But all we have is text! Text is how we communicate. We write letters and reports and tell stories. These forums are full of text.

Every complaint you've posted is in text!

Be Well!
Fireheart

So, if I'm reading this right, this is Lore:

Hi! Nina here, co-owner of the Naughty Corner! Soon to be the hottest night spot in town! We are currently talking to out architect and the zoning board and hope to have some preliminary updates to you soon! Let's bring a little of the tropics to Titan!

While this is NOT Lore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_sfnQDr1-o

Am I right?

I think subjecting the game plans to the fan-base (not to the investors, but to the fans) at a "as it's done" pace is the wrong way to go. I would prefer to see things not when they're started but when they're polished.

If they showed half-rendered cityscapes and costume creations with bugs it wouldn't be BETTER for me. At the stage of production why would people be begging to see things that are not complete?

Plans of things, sure. Some discussion on lore, systems, and finance.. maybe. But seeing the full game (half done if that) in in its early stages? No thank you. Show me just what is ready to be shown.

I honestly wish that the new version of Anthem was the ONLY one I'd ever seen because the first concept didn't inspire me in the same way. And that's how I feel about so much of the game. Give me as close to the goods as you can because I don't want to judge you by what is not complete.

Lofwyre and Zerohour, I just want to say I really do understand the impatience--I feel it too.

I think what people are trying to point out is that if this were a professional studio this early in development, the only thing you'd have to go in is the name of the game, maybe a logo, and "coming 2016" (which is crazy-early as a release date for developing this kind of game).

As it is, this is a largely volunteer studio trying to take their time and build the game right so that it will be truly great and will last as a game, but are still willing to share what little they can with us at this point because they want to. But if they spent their time making flashy demos, we'd have to wait even longer for the game.

I didn't know what all went into developing a AAA MMORPG and what kind of time-frames were realistic until CoT came along and I started researching it. Once I researched it, I took a deep breath and settled in for the wait. And if that time isn't taken, you won't get a AAA result.

Anyhow, people aren't trying to come down hard, it's just that we want it NAOWAH too, but we have to be reasonable and face facts--we have a wait on our hands before we see any of that kind of stuff.

I knew what I was being baited into when asked what my definition of "not lore" is. I tried to avoid that but Nina Guardian managed to find a way to be fickle about it regardless, sigh.

Lofwyre pretty much nailed what I'm trying to say. I'm sure everyone wants to see forward progress, I can't be alone on that. I think it would be a fantastic idea for there to be a centralized thread that the devs keep updated with these snippets of info spread here and there across the different threads. At the very least a dev post tracker. You know full well that when I'm saying "wall of text" I'm talking about these huge lore updates. For christs sake obviously there is going to be text in ANY update. Don't be so silly.

When I hear tech update I think new spell animation, better particle effects or, hey here's the latest male avatar. Even something like what you figure the requirements on our computers need to be to run the game on max. Honestly if we are at the wrong stage still for me to be starting to expect stuff like that then I apologize for being so presumptuous. Someone said they don't want to see half finished buildings or buggy costume creators. But that's exactly what I want to see. Because then I know there is forward progress. Things are being created and I can think yep away we go, it's happening. Pictures of servers and the names you've given them are nice and all, and seeing sketches of buildings and NPCs are better than nothing of course, but until we physically see these things created, they're just ideas.

I can't wait to go up against these guys.

Scott Jackson wrote:

If the team is looking for a source of updates that would satisfy all but the most ravenous of future players, may I suggest working toward a central, public, official source of information that states the current plan for each element of gameplay / systems? Of course, it could be expanded into lore and maps and expanded with artwork when available... If this is already being developed, please forgive my ignorance of it.
I've been seeing this kind of information shared in small pieces across many threads in the forum, but as such it is difficult to find and fades out of our collective memory very quickly...but getting these gameplay ideas nailed down is definitely progress for which the team should get credit. Whether to set up a series of gameplay topic updates which progressively build the central repository or create the repository and then pull update topics from it would be up to you. Once each system / gameplay element has had an introductory update, any significant change of plan on a given element (e.g. auction house, zone events) can prompt an update to highlight the changes to the design or timeline.
Please don't let the fact that change is inevitable deter you from sharing with us. If we're here at this stage of development, we probably enjoy both the process and the end result. The preliminary B&W drawings for Mogul buildings are just as cool as the final version; the same is true for whatever you have planned for Temp Powers or Crafting, and updates don't need to be limited to the systems scheduled to be ready on release day.
Thanks for the Underworld lore update and for listening.

Much of this is on the to-do list for the website work. It is not yet even close to ready as other areas took priority.

Fickle? FICKLE??

It's a baby monkey riding backwards on a pig! I just WISH it was Lore!!

I'm just trying to lighten the mood here cause people seem to be getting snippy and that makes a sad Nina :(

Personally I think Zerohour just likes to hear himself type complaints, so I say just give us lore every other week from now on so he can keep b!tching about it and he'll be as happy as he's apparently capable of being. :)

Zerohour wrote:

(I double checked this. Correct me if I'm missing something)
I'm not trolling. I paid money to help and be a part of this. I'm just asking questions, I don't see why I have to tip toe around things. If you think it makes me a rude person because I don't swallow every pill you give me, then go ahead and get frustrated and call me names. Too often with Kickstarter projects you get promised the double cheeseburger they show on the menu, but when you pay your money and sit down to eat, the bun is flat and the cheese is stuck to the wrapper.

I just want to say that you have a right to your opinions. That does not mean that your bias on labelling what is we may consider a tech update and what you want to define it as are the same thing. A tech update does not have to include actual in-game visual assets, that is only one part of tech.

Your list and wording indicates the only thing deemed worthy as a tech update in your opinion is the Proving the Producer update. While providing details on how we are going about making the essential work area of our virtual office and what is essential for our virtual work studio to actually put the pieces of the game together - that is Building the Backbone update is not viewed as a "real tech update" to you, for the purposes of the updates are concerned, does directly deal with tech. Again, a Tech update does not have to involve in-game asset progress even if that's what you want to define as a worthy tech update.

And that's your opinion, which again is fine. You like to know about the happenings for actual game asset progress. I'm sure everyone at some point wants to see game progress - some have stated they want to see actual in-progress stuff even if incomplete, some have said they would rather see completed stuff.

Realize it takes a lot more work to put together game tech, much of which isn't visually appealing. And then there are things that while in progress need to be redone due to a problem found later down the line, or remade because of an update to the engine. To provide mid-work progress of this sort would be errorneous of us in these cases.

And while you may not consider the 11/6 Kickstarter update to include tech, it did provide some rough outs of the basic 3d models which will appear in-game and a screen shot of the Unreal4 Blue Print system that is goes into making the model. And while it may not have appealed to you because you did not donate specifically for that, those are locations that will exist in the game. The update could be considered tech, art, lore, and an update on our Kickstarter fulfillment progress all in one.

I'm sorry you don't believe we are catering toward your specific types of tech updates up to this point, but as our community manager has stated, we are listening.

I think the saddest part of this debate is that I haven't really had the time to talk about how awesome it is to see the next part of what the lore actually shows us in context.

Sorry Zero, I just don't agree with you and I don't feel this is the place to have the conversation. There are those of us who actually want to discuss the lore updates and what it means for the game.

@Radiac - yep, you got me. there's nothing more that I love to do than take time out of my day to complain. even better, trying to look up each update on my iphone and switch between windows and try to type out responses on the stupid little keyboard during breaks at work is pretty much the cherry on top of my day. gimme a break.

@Tannim222 - why are servers that are primarily business infrastructure related and admittedly nothing to do with actual game management something we need to know about? how is it tech related when it has no effect on the tech of the game we are backing? and I don't appreciate you making it sound like its "my specific definitions of tech updates" as if my head is in the clouds and I'm just pulling stuff out of nowhere on a whim.

@JayBezz - you haven't had time to discuss this update? so, you take the time to disagree with me and scold me on the inappropriateness of my questions? here's an idea. instead of playing headmaster and dictating what you think I can and can't say in a public forum, why not just talk about the update instead of telling me that you want to talk about the update? there's never anything "sad" about a debate. questions are what prod a debate forward. the lore threads are always the ones with the smallest posts because really, what can you say? at least here, there are more to the posts than "looks great, cant wait to read more". stop being so condescending.

@Empyrean - as always, I appreciate you trying to keep the peace. maybe you're right. maybe my expectations aren't realistic. I just thought that by now we'd be seeing a little more of actual game stuff. i could be wrong, i just feel like the lore updates are just ways to appease us. almost like, well, throw them a story because we have nothing else. i dont like to be patronized, and with all of the people who have contributed their hard earned money to this project, i dont want us to be taken advantage of.

Again, I don't understand why asking questions that might go against the grain automatically qualify as being a troll. is it that easy to be alienated? Hey, this guy isn't hopping on the bandwagon, throw him to the dogs and blacklist him forever!!! i guess if im being honest, i dont really see anyone asking the hard questions, so maybe i feel like someone should.

Zerohour wrote:

@Tannim222 - why are servers that are primarily business infrastructure related and admittedly nothing to do with actual game management something we need to know about? how is it tech related when it has no effect on the tech of the game we are backing? and I don't appreciate you making it sound like its "my specific definitions of tech updates" as if my head is in the clouds and I'm just pulling stuff out of nowhere on a whim.

It could be that we are running with different definitions of tech. For us, tech is a large category covering everything from infrastructure to the games mechanics. It seems that you would prefer focus on only a small subset of the technical side of the company, and view everything outside of that subset as something else. Am I right?

I think its a long assumption to think things "Don't Exist" .. they likely don't exist in the way that stage of finish that are worth putting out to the public.. and if they ARE existent then they are holding them for a reason.

Light will be shed, I'm sure of it. And once it is I'm sure we won't be staring at an Emperor with no clothes. (Well maybe if just to show of the undressed character models).

But more than anything.. more than seeing pictures, videos, or plans - I want to know about this new IP. It's the world my character will live in and I want as much of a chance as possible to understand about it.

The Overwatch Cinematic did a great job of explaining the base lore of the game in one video sure.. but they had the Titan assets for years. And I still don't understand how a FPS game will work or how a character will be created in that game. We on the other hand have seen some basic UI and character models and the engine being used and its capabilities. All this and before the full game is released we'll have a character creator module to play around in..

The only other game that would allow us to see SO much of it before release I can think of is Everquest Next because the Landmark module lets you see so much of the game system before the game launches. When Wildstar came out I had no idea what so many of the systems were .. and I was in the Beta!

- -

Anyhow, Subrosa.. an old Italian family operating in Titan City with a LONG history of "Snitches get Stitches" is something I am intrigued to see. Nowadays loyalty comes at a price tag. And most people come far too cheaply. The loyalty aspect of the Black Rose is enough to make them truly dangerous adversaries.

Hell so many good guys have issues creating a true fraternity of trust. The TCPD obviously doesn't have its ranks closed and knowing that makes them vulnerable from the inside. I can think of more than a few reasons my hero would not want to register fully with an institution she can't trust.

Empyrean wrote:

I think it's time to come out and say what everyone has be unintentionally dancing around due to use of terminology (Zero, I'm going to presume to put words in your mouth. And in MWM's mouth too. Please correct me if I'm wrong.):
Zero just wants to see what it's going to be like to actually play the game. He wants to see ingame assets, power animations, graphics, gameplay footage, and that kind of stuff. MWM (putting words in your mouths now) is not at a stage of development where there is a lot of that stuff to show yet. So, they are showing what they can.
So, Zero wants something that isn't there yet and he thinks it should be. MWM just doesn't have it yet and feels that is reasonable at this stage of development, and so they are showing what they do have. And most of the community seems to understand this and is happy to see what MWM has at this stage.
Did that help clarify any?

Gameplay footage isn't going to happen until at *least* March at the earliest. Because before then, it will lack the animations needed to appear to *be* gameplay footage. That's based on our current timeframe, as we want to debug the systems before we add the animation portion to them - as that's modular and not tied *to* the systems directly.

It's interesting to see this 'behind-the-scenes' look at how threat-progression in the City might flow. A beginning hero would obviously encounter the aggressive street-gang and, only through investigation and experience, discover the more subtle threat behind them. Alternately, a hero with inside knowledge or connections might be aimed directly at the Black Rose, only to have the hot-headed drug-powered gang-bangers constantly thrown in their path, as cannon-fodder and distraction.

It's interesting to consider what other threads of power bind the Black Rose to other criminal enterprises. Those ties go both ways, after all.

Be Well!
Fireheart