Twitch Upcoming!

We're delaying our Twitch till AFTER a very specific KS update. You'll know what one, we'll talk about the twitch in the update. We need all hands to get this one ready.
Which still means something good is coming.
https://www.twitch.tv/missingworldsmedia

Rotty's stream ended.
Check him out at right here

Discuss: See us at Pax West

149 posts / 0 new
Last post
Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 43 min ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
I think its better to be

I think its better to be behind and not put together videos because they are still working on everything. Honestly, even if SOH had a nicely edited video although the music reminds me of the kind they put on training videos at work, but a lot of things worried me. The pose while flying was stiff, the sound effects were horrible, the visual effects of the powers are not focused and too many different effects going on. Id rather wait and see something almost perfect from COT than the video SOH put out for PAX.

SisterSilicon
SisterSilicon's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 11 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 07/17/2014 - 20:14
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

I am not trying to be negative but I am trying to be realistic. I do have immense faith in MWM or I would not be here anymore. I just really, truly feel like with all else that's going on, it's definitely time to start really showing off the game they've worked so hard on for years.

What I'm getting from statements Nate has made, both here and in the PAX panel, is that MWM is tantalizingly close to unleashing a floodgate of honest-to-goodness, tangible Progress. I think this sort of "big bang" public release has been the plan all along. But the past couple of years have been littered with games that totally screwed the pooch by making public reveals too soon. They've mostly been console-backed indies like No Man's Sky (that shipped on time and horribly incomplete) or Cuphead (which has drawn out for years), but AAA titles like Crackdown 3 have fallen into that trap, too.

Being crowdfunded, especially through Kickstarter, means MWM has to make "public reveals" on a regular basis, whether they want to or not. It's a lot easier for, say, 343 Industries to manage expectations for Halo 6 when they don't have to acknowlege it exists to anybody outside of Microsoft until they're damn good and ready. We all know it's coming, but 343 can blow everybody off until it's ready to prop up an Xbox E3 keynote.

And let's face it, there's tremendous value in being able to say, "Here's the outline of the full scope of our launch. It's taken a long time, but the architecture and systems are complete. Here's everything you can do and how it's done. Now we can put it in donors' hands for balance, tuning, and load testing, while our art team fills in that outline with content."

You just have to be certain that you're ready for that kind of statement. If MWM is only almost certain right this minute, I don't blame them for having the discipline to hang fire a little bit longer.

Twitter: @SisterSilicon

MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 1 min ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

... what they show in their videos (although for the short time they've been around, I do find it impressive), but more to do with what I will term "shit-togetherness". They have a schedule made publicly available, and they stick to it rigidly, releasing their progress clearly and consistently as they go. They have a dedicated media person who runs their Facebook page, posting images, gifs, and videos every week, and responding to comments and questions.

They also all (from what I understand) have a salary, and the responsibility of designing that game is their every-single-day job. Priorities are much, much different over there.

EDIT: ^ @Sister If they are really that close to showing off all of that, then that is incredible!

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
Without looking at any of the

Without looking at any of the comments here prior to the Pax Panel stream:

1.) I would have preferred if the 'moderator' had the panelists on a rotation to respond first to questions. Nate got the short end of the stick every single time. It should have been negotiated up front. There is a tendency to not want to repeat what has already been said (especially if you are being hounded for time), so you end up saying less.
2.) I am impressed with the professional composition of Valiance Online's Chad in representing his product. A little long winded in the initial lore stuff, but overall pretty good.
3.) Nate seems to be a good guy. I want someone to champion the CoT project and I am not completely sure Dr.T is the best person to do that (based solely on observations from this stream).
4.) I noticed in the stream chat that AvelWorldCreator offered to assist the other teams as his time permits. This person is free to do whatever they want as they are not locked down by any one project. I am just worried that this level of fluidity permeates the MWM team and will become (or already is) a significant problem.
5.) The majority of the session was introductory information about the projects and did not clearly focus on the intent of the panel (as stated by Doctor Tyche prior to Pax). I am disappointed that the a significant portion of the questions in the Questions for Pax Panel thread were not touched upon. Will there be a follow up by any or all of the participants to answer those questions? I am also assuming that there were similar calls for questions on the other team's forums.

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

I would like to say that I think you guys should either enlist or appoint a dev to handle all updates. Preferably someone who has studied or worked in that area.
In the stream you mentioned that you have a lot of information you would like to release but because everyone is busy developing the game the actual writing of the updates takes a back seat. It's commendable that you have a heavy focus on development but it is my belief that those updates are important as well. You seem to agree with this as your tone when talking about this indicated that you regret not being able to release this information better.
This isn't about just us getting the information, it's also about stopping confusion, assumptions and general hostility before it happens. There are so many different views on what this game will offer, how far along you are, monetary needs and so on among the people following the development that it has created a slightly contentious environment in the forums. If you had one person who was in charge of all information releases, including responding to questions on the forums, it would go a long way to quelling things.
One professional quality voice giving out information offers consistency. That one voice would still allow for individual developers to speak to the audience but instead of an unprepared comment which has a greater possibility of confusion it would have gone through this 'communications' person and be filtered into a more informative statement. You can save the fun dev interactions for things like Pax or through the twitch streams.
Just my thoughts on the topic.

I completely agree with Brainbot

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Kid Rad wrote:
... what they show in their videos (although for the short time they've been around, I do find it impressive), but more to do with what I will term "shit-togetherness". They have a schedule made publicly available, and they stick to it rigidly, releasing their progress clearly and consistently as they go. They have a dedicated media person who runs their Facebook page, posting images, gifs, and videos every week, and responding to comments and questions.
They also all (from what I understand) have a salary, and the responsibility of designing that game is their every-single-day job. Priorities are much, much different over there.
EDIT: ^ @Sister If they are really that close to showing off all of that, then that is incredible!

What confuses me the most is that MWM has BY FAR the largest amount of capital available, given their over half a million dollar Kickstarter, so I don't understand why this hasn't been the case for them as well. Even if half the money was put into software and technology, there should be enough to have at least one full time person chugging away for these past years. It is hard for me to think how things could progress in a viable fashion in the long term, given how they have been run thus far. Running a game in a viable manner takes professionalism. It's a nice notion that these guys care enough to do it on a volunteer basis, but that is not a recipe for long term success. At some point, the wheels have to hit the pavement.

Blue Battler
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/26/2014 - 12:21
I have stated in many places

I have stated in many places and more than once than I am a fan of all three projects as each has something I'd like to see in a game.

To be honest, I expect COT, VO, and SOH to all be rather skimpy on content and powers at the beginning. We all remember how COX was at the end, but there were long periods of time-- especially at the beginning-- when we got very little in the way of content or powers. Having three games to me means the potential for three times the content I would have if only COT were around. It also means that I have three chances at finding a community that I enjoy spending time with as opposed to just one.

Because I'll have other options, all three development teams will have to work harder to earn my money. So I benefit there.

The development teams will be able to see what two other games are doing to attract the same customer base-- and will have a chance to learn from their successes and failure. So the development teams benefit.

And the community as a whole benefits because we have three chances to find a successor that has what we individually liked best about COX instead of one. And that if-- Heaven forbid-- one of them fails-- we have two other places that will hopefully be around for us to continue on in.

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
Blue Battler wrote:
Blue Battler wrote:

It also means that I have three chances at finding a community that I enjoy spending time with as opposed to just one.

The argument made in the stream is the same one that has been made on forums everywhere. The community in CoH is what kept people involved and playing the game. The players are the ones responsible for creating the community. The developers are just there to setup the framework for giving people something to do. If the player base is transitory or splits time amongst multiple games there is less of a chance to form and cultivate the community that everyone seems to be seeking.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

I completely agree with Brainbot

Thank you.

I would like to add that it should go without saying that it is not an easy position to fill.
There is unlikely to be a huge pool of people who can do a job like that well. Fewer still who would do so on a volunteer basis.
Just going on facebook or craigs list isn't likely to yield a great selection of skilled applicants. Even if it did, because we are dealing with the proprietary information of game development, MWM would have to take a significant amount of care in choosing the right applicant. Especially if that applicant was not currently following the project. That, obviously, takes a considerable amount of time and effort on MWM's part.

I suggest that if MWM gets to a point where they simply need this position filled that they start their search by asking for unpaid interns right out of, or still currently in, school. These interns won't have the experience someone who has been doing a job like this would have. But they would be easier to direct and eager for the experience this would provide for future jobs they seek.
Keep in mind that there are laws concerning unpaid interns that MWM would have to follow which probably include some tax payments, equipment requirements and the like. Most unpaid interns still cost the company money. Not to mention that in most cases an intern program is supposed to be a stepping stone to paid employment with the company.

All the better would be if the second chance funding was a large success and they could section of a lump of finances to pay professionals for some of the much needed yet hard to fill positions a start up entertainment company needs, including but not limited to the position I suggested earlier.

I say these thing knowing full well that MWM has thought of them long ago. MWM's focus is, as it should be, on developing the game but they realize that they are at (or at least very close to) the point when they should be putting forth a thoroughly professional face.
Sadly the nature of volunteer projects makes professional presentation difficult at best. It may sound like just the same excuse they have used before but it does not make it any less true.

We can and should offer suggestions, criticism and complaints on the chance that something we think of MWM has not, but we should also realize that most of what we say has already been nagging at the developers for a long time.

EDIT: As well as suggestions, critisism, and complaints we shouldn't neglect to offer support, praise and approval. I wanted to add this because it's pretty easy to forget that encouragement adds to the determination of the devs, as I did here by forgetting to include it.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
As a point, we have looked

As a point, we have looked into unpaid or low paid interns, and there is a major hurdle for having those - you need a physical office from which the interns can operate out of.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

What confuses me the most is that MWM has BY FAR the largest amount of capital available, given their over half a million dollar Kickstarter, so I don't understand why this hasn't been the case for them as well.

Almost every privately owned start up company lives in a sea of debt. Owners of those companies take personal and business loans out just to survive.
MWM has made a decision to not create debt before they have a product under their belt.
At least one dev has mentioned that they no longer have any job other than this project. We don't know how the devs are surviving other than they say they are not taking any money from the kick starter for their personal use (AFAIK).
One would have to assume that some of these devs are living off of savings, loans or maybe even kids education funds.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

As a point, we have looked into unpaid or low paid interns, and there is a major hurdle for having those - you need a physical office from which the interns can operate out of.

You're right, I forgot about that aspect. I am sure there is a solution to this, but like I said, it would cost money. Unpaid interns does not mean free labor.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Kid Rad wrote:
What confuses me the most is that MWM has BY FAR the largest amount of capital available, given their over half a million dollar Kickstarter, so I don't understand why this hasn't been the case for them as well.
Almost every privately owned start up company lives in a sea of debt. Owners of those companies take personal and business loans out just to survive.
MWM has made a decision to not create debt before they have a product under their belt.
At least one dev has mentioned that they no longer have any job other than this project. We don't know how the devs are surviving other than they say they are not taking any money from the kick starter for their personal use (AFAIK).
One would have to assume that some of these devs are living off of savings, loans or maybe even kids education funds.

That would be me. My wife landed a decent paying job and is super supportive. (Love you Tiff)

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

That would be me. My wife landed a decent paying job and is super supportive. (Love you Tiff)

Cool.

I was just trying to point out that you guys are devoted to developing the game and had made the decision to use the kick starter investment specifically for developing and not salaries. In doing so you have made sacrifices, which is the norm for start-up companies. I hope I didn't step on any toes.

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
I was under the assumption

I was under the assumption that salaries=development. Am I wrong? How else are people able to devote time to games? I get the need for the lean startup, but that can only last for so long before the next phase needs to take over.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

I was under the assumption that salaries=development. Am I wrong? How else are people able to devote time to games? I get the need for the lean startup, but that can only last for so long before the next phase needs to take over.

Labor = development. Labor for salary is the most common model, but not the only model in existence. If this were to be a salaried based development, we would have needed many times the kickstarter funding level to have pulled this off. There are costs in producing an MMO that simply do not exist elsewhere, and is a major reason why the single most expensive game ever developed is an MMO. Consider that out of the top 10 most expensive games ever produced, half are MMO's of one sort or another.

But you are correct, at some point the next phase, where people are gainfully employed, including paychecks, must happen. As mentioned in the panel, that is in part what Second Chance will be, to enable us to either convert people over to paid staff, or hire new people to fill needs our volunteers are unable to handle.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

I was under the assumption that salaries=development. Am I wrong? How else are people able to devote time to games? I get the need for the lean startup, but that can only last for so long before the next phase needs to take over.

Yes you are wrong. Volunteer effort means they work for no remuneration. Most of the devs have full time jobs outside of the work they do on the game. This does extend the development time the game requires before release.

The reason why the devs have decided to forego a salary is because they have budgeted all of the kick starter money towards development, legal requirements and release.
That means they spent a good chunk of the funds on tools they needed to do the development and legal fees to form a business. The rest they kept in reserve for PR leading up to release, the servers and support needed for release and some for emergency issues that may arise.

Basically what MWM has done is ensured the best chance to get the game released and survive for at least a short time after release without additional funds coming in. In a worst case scenario the game can get released under a rocky start and still have enough money to survive long enough to fix potential issues.

People should try and remember that currently MWM is a company that does not have a product to sell. They have to be financially frugal in order to get to the point where they do have a product.

EDIT: Tyche beat me to it.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

But you are correct, at some point the next phase, where people are gainfully employed, including paychecks, must happen. As mentioned in the panel, that is in part what Second Chance will be, to enable us to either convert people over to paid staff, or hire new people to fill needs our volunteers are unable to handle.

I wanna say thank you for this comment.
Up until now the only comment given about the second chance had been how we have been begging for it and that you did not need the money. I am glad to hear that even though you don't need the money you have a (IMO) very smart use for the money you may receive from this second round of funding.

If it's okay to ask, do you plan to make it clear in the second chance that the donations from it are going directly towards speeding up development and not (to a certain point) going towards new features? I assume that is the intention of the second round of fundraising, to speed development, or am I wrong?

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Sorry, I'm just having

Sorry, I'm just having trouble following the logic here. The Kickstarter money was used for development, not salaries. Labor = development, but labor was not provided by salaries. So I am confused on where the money has mainly been spent, if not salaries for developers. It's not like you're building star citizen here, so I highly doubt that the money raised could have possibly been insufficient for a dedicated small team of developers to work full time. Yes you need tech and software, but that couldn't have eaten up more than half.

So as you can see from where my mind is going here, where the real value on PR is. It keeps the naysayers like me at bay and keeps imaginations from wandering to places you'd rather they didn't. If there was a more professional presentation of where the game was in terms of progress, we would probably not even be having this conversation. I get you want to dedicate all the time and money on development, whatever that means to you, and however that happens, but I hope that a good PR person will be on the list of those who are hired by the second funding. Honestly, should probably be done before so if you are hoping for the fundraiser to even be successful, because right now I would be wary of contributing unless I can see something more concrete.

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 32 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Sorry, I'm just having trouble following the logic here.

No problem, you'll just have to go read the 4-5 years of development posts that explain it all. Or go back to SoH and stop poking at us, here.

*sigh*

Okay, that might have been uncalled-for.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Just came across this review

Just came across this review of the pax panel. Clearly I am not the only one thinking these things...

https://youtu.be/_R37yn9CrGo

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Kid Rad wrote:
Sorry, I'm just having trouble following the logic here.
No problem, you'll just have to go read the 4-5 years of development posts that explain it all. Or go back to SoH and stop poking at us, here.
*sigh*
Okay, that might have been uncalled-for.
Be Well!
Fireheart

I am only here "poking" you because I care. I want this game to succeed. I want people to take it seriously and get excited about it. The way it is being presented currently, that is definitely not so in the majority of cases.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Sorry, I'm just having trouble following the logic here. The Kickstarter money was used for development, not salaries. Labor = development, but labor was not provided by salaries. So I am confused on where the money has mainly been spent, if not salaries for developers. It's not like you're building star citizen here, so I highly doubt that the money raised could have possibly been insufficient for a dedicated small team of developers to work full time. Yes you need tech and software, but that couldn't have eaten up more than half.

Taxes, lawyer, accountant, registration fees, travel expenses and convention fees all add up. Not to mention that the tech and software they need is specialized stuff that does not come cheap.
3D artists require tools and software that is ridiculously priced. A 3d mouse can run upwards of 800 dollars and animation software can cost as much as 2000 a year to use per copy.
The Unreal engine is not cheap either. A percentage of the kickstarter had to be paid to Epic just to use Unreal.
A lot of development isn't one time payments, a lot is ongoing costs that add up.

It may not be Star Citizen but it's also not a mobile game that can be done on a cheap laptop.

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Kid Rad wrote:
Sorry, I'm just having trouble following the logic here. The Kickstarter money was used for development, not salaries. Labor = development, but labor was not provided by salaries. So I am confused on where the money has mainly been spent, if not salaries for developers. It's not like you're building star citizen here, so I highly doubt that the money raised could have possibly been insufficient for a dedicated small team of developers to work full time. Yes you need tech and software, but that couldn't have eaten up more than half.
Taxes, lawyer, accountant, registration fees, travel expenses and convention fees all add up. Not to mention that the tech and software they need is specialized stuff that does not come cheap.
3D artists require tools and software that is ridiculously priced. A 3d mouse can run upwards of 800 dollars and animation software can cost as much as 2000 a year to use per copy.
The Unreal engine is not cheap either. A percentage of the kickstarter had to be paid to Epic just to use Unreal.
A lot of development isn't one time payments, a lot is ongoing costs that add up.
It may not be Star Citizen but it's also not a mobile game that can be done on a cheap laptop.

Do you think that stuff costs a total of $300,000? This was about the estimate I had, which I thought was more than generous, leaving over $300k for developer salaries, or PR, or some combination thereof.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Kid Rad wrote:
Sorry, I'm just having trouble following the logic here. The Kickstarter money was used for development, not salaries. Labor = development, but labor was not provided by salaries. So I am confused on where the money has mainly been spent, if not salaries for developers. It's not like you're building star citizen here, so I highly doubt that the money raised could have possibly been insufficient for a dedicated small team of developers to work full time. Yes you need tech and software, but that couldn't have eaten up more than half.
Taxes, lawyer, accountant, registration fees, travel expenses and convention fees all add up. Not to mention that the tech and software they need is specialized stuff that does not come cheap.
3D artists require tools and software that is ridiculously priced. A 3d mouse can run upwards of 800 dollars and animation software can cost as much as 2000 a year to use per copy.
The Unreal engine is not cheap either. A percentage of the kickstarter had to be paid to Epic just to use Unreal.
A lot of development isn't one time payments, a lot is ongoing costs that add up.
It may not be Star Citizen but it's also not a mobile game that can be done on a cheap laptop.

Actually, can go over $9,000 per year, per copy. HoudiniFX is a prime example, costing nearly $7k per year per seat.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Do you think that stuff costs a total of $300,000? This was about the estimate I had, which I thought was more than generous, leaving over $300k for developer salaries, or PR, or some combination thereof.

Have you looked into things or are you just guessing?
I have and I think you would be surprised at just how much all the stuff you are not considering adds up.

So lets take your assumptions and combine it with your idea of a small team of paid developers.
The going rate for developers is roughly 50-70k a year. If the game had only 5 developers that's 250-350k a year. Or maybe you think the developers should be paid less, like maybe only 20-30k a year, well within low class yearly earnings. That's still 100k to 150k a year.
So if the devs lived on baked beans and toast with a salary of 20k and you are right about the start-up and maintenance costs being around 300k at most, the devs have to not only complete a giant endeavor like an MMO in 3 years but they cannot afford a single setback.

Now because they used every cent from the kickstarter on start-up and salaries they have nothing left for pre-release costs. Did you know that servers and staff to run them can cost 50k per month for low end capacity? Even if MWM managed to get a really really good deal and got them for 30k they need a minimum of 3 months after release because they won't see any money for that time period. Almost another 100k out of the kickstarter funds.

OK so lets say somehow they manage all that. They still need security as they are going to be doing online transactions. Because they will be doing online transactions they need insurance to protect against fraud.

Should I go on?

It's easy to just say 'do this thing I think you should do' but the reality is often much more complex than you think it is.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Actually, can go over $9,000 per year, per copy. HoudiniFX is a prime example, costing nearly $7k per year per seat.

I didn't know you were using Houdini. I was basing my numbers off certain deals Maya, you know the ones that barely let you use the program at all.

Regardless, I think I am done discussing things with Kid Rad. I hope I have given him some things to think about even if he doesn't agree with me.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Actually, can go over $9,000 per year, per copy. HoudiniFX is a prime example, costing nearly $7k per year per seat.
I didn't know you were using Houdini. I was basing my numbers off certain deals Maya, you know the ones that barely let you use the program at all.
Regardless, I think I am done discussing things with Kid Rad. I hope I have given him some things to think about even if he doesn't agree with me.

We licensed Houdini for 1 year in order to overcome a particular technical hurdle. We lucked out and acquired some of the last Maya perpetual licenses, before they went subscription only.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Just came across this review of the pax panel. Clearly I am not the only one thinking these things...
https://youtu.be/_R37yn9CrGo

That YouTube review is what I would expect from an opportunistic youtuber game review. It does prove that the entire point of the pax panel was a wasted effort though. It became a competition of "who won the Pax West panel for CoH spiritual successor".
In summation (via the yt video):

  • SoH brought a game "demo" to tout their progress and promote their product
  • VO brought a lore guy instead of the main contact (availability issues) and it showed
  • CoT brought nothing and didn't have much to say

I did get a snicker out of the pronunciation of "Cit-Tea of Tight-Enz" though.

Were Doctor Tyche's expectations properly voiced to the group of panelists and the moderator? Each of the three participants brought disparate blocks of information on their respective games. At every juncture in the panel, the SoH guy got to respond first (even when Nate deferred at one point) and drive the narrative. Did the moderator get assigned to the panel room randomly (or work for Heroic Games)?

Here's what Doctor Tyche said the panel was supposed to be in the announcement:

Doctor Tyche wrote:

We will be discussing not only how a single game inspired such divergent spiritual successors, but how we maintain an atmosphere of community between our teams.

The only mention of community was the insistence that community was important part of each of the individual games. Nothing about the super hero community or how the players keep it alive. No mention about how the three game companies work together or have some nebulous shared vision of an ideal super hero mmo. It feels like Dr.T fighting tooth & nail to have this band of brothers atmosphere between game companies and no one on the other side is doing anything to reciprocate.

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
My main point here is not to

My main point here is not to criticize how money is spent. I'm not behind the scenes, so I don't know how things are run. Without consistent and organized proof of progress, I'm left to speculate.

Which again brings me to my point, which is that whether it costs money or not, the PR of this game is staggeringly deficient. If this were star citizen, the community would be shitting a brick. Instead, the lack of communication and spotty updates are justified and defended as the cost of a volunteer team, that money for PR is not in the budget, that if only the right person would step up to the plate, they would gladly empower them to do the job. This kind of helpless and hands off approach to what many people acknowledge is a problem is what keeps me at a distance. If this single problem was resolved, I would gladly be your biggest advocate. Until then...

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We licensed Houdini for 1 year in order to overcome a particular technical hurdle. We lucked out and acquired some of the last Maya perpetual licenses, before they went subscription only.

Nice, I looked into maya about 3 months ago and the costs were just to much for my simple project. In the end I went with Blender mostly because I didn't need all the bells and whistles. As you probably know its good, but clunky.

I have never worked with Houdini or even really read much about it other than it is exceptionally good at particles and physics.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
We licensed Houdini for 1 year in order to overcome a particular technical hurdle. We lucked out and acquired some of the last Maya perpetual licenses, before they went subscription only.
Nice, I looked into maya about 3 months ago and the costs were just to much for my simple project. In the end I went with Blender mostly because I didn't need all the bells and whistles. As you probably know its good, but clunky.
I have never worked with Houdini or even really read much about it other than it is exceptionally good at particles and physics.

If you're not using the cinema system from Maya, then MayaLT is a good substitute, and is a better price point.

But, I'll be honest with you, my preferred 3d package is Lightwave3D by NewTek. For around $500, it does almost everything I've needed. However, it's not common, and few artists outside of motion picture work know how to work with it.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Were Doctor Tyche's expectations properly voiced to the group of panelists and the moderator? Each of the three participants brought disparate blocks of information on their respective games. At every juncture in the panel, the SoH guy got to respond first (even when Nate deferred at one point) and drive the narrative. Did the moderator get assigned to the panel room randomly (or work for Heroic Games)?

No one stopped Doc from presenting more specifics on what they have accomplished over the years. No one stopped him from showing images or videos of their work. It was more of a history lesson and appeal to collegiality than a presentation of the game. Even without a side by side comparison, the presentation of CoT at 4 years on, left much to be desired.

That said, someone mentioned in the comments of that video that there is supposed to be a CoT video being released tomorrow, of what they would have presented if they didn't use their computer to stream. Not sure where they heard that, but I hope it's true. Better late than never. Looking forward to it.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

My main point here is not to criticize how money is spent. I'm not behind the scenes, so I don't know how things are run. Without consistent and organized proof of progress, I'm left to speculate.

There is nothing wrong with speculation as long as it comes from factual sources and not just 'This is how I feel'. I have no idea what is actually going on behind the scenes either so much of what I say is speculation as well.

Kid Rad wrote:

Which again brings me to my point, which is that whether it costs money or not, the PR of this game is staggeringly deficient. If this were star citizen, the community would be shitting a brick. Instead, the lack of communication and spotty updates are justified and defended as the cost of a volunteer team, that money for PR is not in the budget, that if only the right person would step up to the plate, they would gladly empower them to do the job. This kind of helpless and hands off approach to what many people acknowledge is a problem is what keeps me at a distance. If this single problem was resolved, I would gladly be your biggest advocate. Until then...

I obviously agree that MWM would benefit from a devoted communications position. But you must acknowledge that most of that benefit would be of a moral support variety. At this point, MWM's goal of completing the game is not affected by the opinions of followers, good or bad.
What I mean is, no matter what people think of MWM and the job they are doing, they can still continue to develop the game because they have budgeted the kick starter funds to do so.

Also, in this very thread, they have expressed their plans to secure more funding in order to get positions like the one you are proposing filled. By all means keep pressing them to up their game, just keep in mind you may not have all the facts about what they are actually doing behind the scenes.

amievil
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 6 hours ago
Developer
Joined: 10/21/2013 - 12:53
I can't wait either!!

I can't wait either!!

AI Coder,Animator,FX Guy,Blueprint Guru,Etc... You have an army? We have a Fred.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

If you're not using the cinema system from Maya, then MayaLT is a good substitute, and is a better price point.

But, I'll be honest with you, my preferred 3d package is Lightwave3D by NewTek. For around $500, it does almost everything I've needed. However, it's not common, and few artists outside of motion picture work know how to work with it.

All I need is a way to make a few explosion effects, a smiling devil face and some simple smoke. I looked at Maya (and lightwave) more for ego reasons. Gotta have the best. I mean I bought a 3Dconnexion SpaceMouse for just under 500 bucks and found that I just didn't need it. Luckily my boss is heavily into 3d animation so he took it off my hands for 400.
I really need self control when it comes to toys.

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 37 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
For my own part, I think MWM

For my own part, I think MWM is doing the right thing to concentrate on development instead of PR at this point. While we'd all like more info on the game, I'd classify that more as a Want than a Need. MMOs live off word of mouth more than anything else, and that won't mean anything till the game is live and the player base can speak from actual experience. As we know from the old City, a good game can thrive with almost no PR or advertising, while a bad one will die no matter how much goes into promoting it. Seems to me the key for a good MMO is simply getting a number of people to try it, and if we use the KS results MWM can expect at least 5000 people to visit Titan City on opening day. If the game is as good as we all hope, I think that will certainly get the ball rolling.

Keep in mind that PR for a game in development is a two-edged sword. Many games offering early PR (including this one) have to deal with the negative reaction caused by the community's lack of understanding of the development process, especially when more shiny stuff is demanded despite the fact that shinies are typically the last layer to add to a game (as Doc has demonstrated on more than one occasion with evidence from other games). Any project showcasing tons of shiny stuff at this point in the development cycle would actually make me a bit suspicious. Sure, if MWM can put more into PR when the game is closer to release that might be a good idea, but at this point I think they're doing a good job for a volunteer organisation that doesn't have dedicated resources for the purpose. My personal opinion is that rerouting any more dev resource to PR at this stage might do more harm than good.

Spurn all ye kindle.

notears
notears's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 6 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/04/2013 - 17:24
yeah, I mean PR is important,

yeah, I mean PR is important, but not that important right now, I appreciate the updates every second Wednesday but for now other than that, I'd rather see you working on the game

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
I think people are confusing

I think people are confusing PR with advertising and communication.

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 37 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

I think people are confusing PR with advertising and communication.

I know I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, MWM has every right to operate in complete radio silence till they are ready to share whatever info they wish, and they could actually be better off if they did.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I know I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, MWM has every right to operate in complete radio silence till they are ready to share whatever info they wish, and they could actually be better off if they did.

Communications is in charge of what information is to be shared.
Public Relations determines how to release the information with the goal being a positive reception.
Advertising is concerned with raising awareness.

Kid Rad, Tyche and myself are talking purely about how information is relayed to the public. We are stressing a more professional and cohesive message which requires PR people.
What you and notears seem to be talking about is a combination of promoting through information releases. In other words, you are equating PR with advertising and communications. Mostly you are talking about what information should be released.
Right now, as far as I can tell, Tyche seems to be a major voice in the 'what information is release' area and he laments the fact that they have a wealth of information they believe should be released but due to time constraints they are falling behind on presenting those development updates.

I agree that given the choice between releasing information and developing the game the right choice is developing. But to suggest that MWM be afraid to release information because people might get the wrong idea? I don't know what to say about that opinion.

Oh, just in case you are not aware, CoH did not ' thrive with almost no PR or advertising'.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
If you recall, the original

If you recall, the original discussion point was over my comment of having update topics we want to present which we lacked writers for.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
The thing I am complaining

The thing I am complaining about here, whether it is PR or not, I dunno, are a number of factors working together to present an overall aura of disorganization and misplaced priorities.

1.) Lack of consistent messaging. There were Fridays on twitch, and then they mostly stopped in August, supposedly to prep for Pax. It was said there would be stuff to present at pax, and then there wasn't. No answers for a long time on when alpha will be, then an off the cuff YouTube comment which reveals it, which again wasn't officially confirmed for weeks, and only after intense prodding. A random youtube commenter saying that there will be a video released today of what should have been played at pax. Where did they hear this, and is it true? Who knows, because the messaging from the game itself is inconsistent.

2.) When there are updates, it sometimes leaves me scratching my head on priorities. Dancing controller is cool, but are people really going to want that as a priority powerset at launch? Clicky cape is cool, but again, really doesn't seem like something that would be the priority of a game which is supposedly so crunched for development time. Am I really the only one befuzzled by these activities, especially when contrasted with the messaging of the devs?

I am not saying that there should be a polished video with cheesy music and voice over posted once a month. All I want is some consistency in when there will be an update, and it should show something interesting that is going to be integral to the game. Switching animations between male and female, as boring and mundane as that is, is very important, and what I think everyone would appreciate more of. Whether the updates are posted in writing or video doesn't matter to me. A simple list of "this is what we worked on this month" posted as a word document would be a huge upgrade from the current state of updates.

Fallout1
Fallout1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 48 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 06/23/2015 - 19:48
I agree with you Kid. I

I agree with you Kid. I realize that all the developers have full time jobs; however, this is also the case with SoH. Their timetable is impressive and I think it keeps their work focused. I am also not trying to be negative on CoT. In fact it is my primary choice when it comes to the successor project. I prefer the current time world setting versus the futuristic. The graphics of the buildings I have seen are fantastic. I believe they have the most lore and story elements and in the end, I think they will have a more substantial game at launch.

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
I want to be a bigger

I want to be a bigger supporter than I am. This is why I'm here making these pleas.

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 37 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Oh, just in case you are not aware, CoH did not ' thrive with almost no PR or advertising'.

Actually, it did.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

I want to be a bigger supporter than I am. This is why I'm here making these pleas.

And I do appreciate it.

I was, however, confused over the statement about August. We did do weekly streams, but when I check, three of them are not there. Am looking into it now to find out why.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Kid Rad wrote:
I want to be a bigger supporter than I am. This is why I'm here making these pleas.
And I do appreciate it.
I was, however, confused over the statement about August. We did do weekly streams, but when I check, three of them are not there. Am looking into it now to find out why.

Thanks for that. I'm rarely able to be in the steam when it happens, so if it isn't available after the fact, it may as well have not happened.

KidDynamo
KidDynamo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer
Joined: 03/08/2016 - 16:40
Fallout1 wrote:
Fallout1 wrote:

I agree with you Kid. I realize that all the developers have full time jobs; however, this is also the case with SoH. Their timetable is impressive and I think it keeps their work focused. I am also not trying to be negative on CoT. In fact it is my primary choice when it comes to the successor project. I prefer the current time world setting versus the futuristic. The graphics of the buildings I have seen are fantastic. I believe they have the most lore and story elements and in the end, I think they will have a more substantial game at launch.

Actually SoH doesn't have an all volunteer staff of developers. Most SoH developers have full time jobs...working on SoH.

"MOP: How large is your team right now? Are they all volunteers or is anyone drawing a salary? Are there plans to bring everyone together under a single physical office space?

CM: We have a small team and some are volunteers. I do not draw a salary as CEO because I want this game to succeed. The other members of the team are paid, highly skilled professionals. We do not plan to bring everyone together under a single office location because we have a team that is happy and productive working remotely, and we don’t need to add office costs right now."

http://massivelyop.com/2017/01/17/massively-op-interview-why-ship-of-heroes-is-taking-city-of-heroes-into-space/

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

The thing I am complaining about here, whether it is PR or not, I dunno, are a number of factors working together to present an overall aura of disorganization and misplaced priorities.

To be fair Kid, you have been kinda all over the place with your issues. You went from lack of media at pax to disliking the idea of friendly competitions to the devs time management to how the kick starter funds were spent to a desire for more information to issues of professional PR. Pretty much every issue you have said you have you only voiced after someone else made mention of it first.

Don't get me wrong Kid, you can express any issue you want to. It's just hard to get a read on what your underlining issues are. For a while there I was sure you just didn't understand the costs of developing an MMO for release given that you continued to discuss it for some time. So I made the effort to explain a few things I thought you had missed and you immediately jumped to PR and time management issues without so much as a backward glance.
My concern in discussing things with you is that you will again shift your issues to something else without acknowledging any misunderstanding on your part after something gets explained.

If I may be so bold, and without any accusation, I think you may just be generally frustrated with this games progress and are just tossing out whatever comes to mind without considering them too deeply. Brainstorming, as it were, for a way to feel better about the project. Do you think that might be the case?

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

If you recall, the original discussion point was over my comment of having update topics we want to present which we lacked writers for.

Yes, but it seems that Cinnder and notears have a different point they are making. They seem to think that it is a better idea to not worry that much about updates at all.

I just wanted to point out that our previous discussion was a separate issue so the two did not get conflated into one big mess of conflicting opinions.

Kid Rad
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2017 - 12:52
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

If I may be so bold, and without any accusation, I think you may just be generally frustrated with this games progress and are just tossing out whatever comes to mind without considering them too deeply. Brainstorming, as it were, for a way to feel better about the project. Do you think that might be the case?

You are absolutely correct in your assessment. I've been all over the place with my criticism, because I really want to wholeheartedly support the project and see it succeed, and I get the sense that something is awry. What it is is hard to put my finger on exactly, so I guess I jump from one thing to the next trying to figure it out. I apologize if this comes across as excessively critical or petulant, but again, I want nothing more than to be able to fully and totally support this game and see it have a successful launch.

The video and update just released did directly address some of the issues I had voiced above (not as a reaction to my comments I'm sure, seems they had planned to release it anyway), so if things keep moving in this direction, and updates like this continue to show more and more functional versions of the game, I promise to pipe down. I will definitely be contributing to the second chance funding if there is a substantial and coherent presentation of how far the game has come in it's development thus far.

Doctor Tyche
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 39 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
It was for the most part

It was for the most part prepared before the panel. We did some adjustments to prevent the panel footage from covering up anything critical.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Actually, it did.

I'm sorry man, but you either not remembering some things correctly, are unaware of some things or are misunderstanding some things.

CoH did in fact have quite a lot of advertising and PR. Here are just some examples:

They had an extensive website.
They used targeted marketing to advertise each update (I can explain this if you are not sure what I mean.)
The had elaborate pos display pieces for their physical product.
They paid for/allowed product placement in other media.
They had ads/articles in gaming magazines.
They released 'special editions' and 'game of the year' copies of the core game and expansions.
They always had a presence at major conventions (including a booth babe dressed as Ghost Widow who went around creeping people out).
They held their own conventions (one had an elaborate real life mission where people went around answering questions about CoH's lore for prizes).
They did fundraiser for various charities.
They had contest in conjunction with hardware/software companies like Nvidia in which players used in game resources to win things like graphics cards, software or money.

CoH did not operate by word of mouth alone, they understood the value of PR and advertising just as MWM does.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

You are absolutely correct in your assessment. I've been all over the place with my criticism, because I really want to wholeheartedly support the project and see it succeed, and I get the sense that something is awry. What it is is hard to put my finger on exactly, so I guess I jump from one thing to the next trying to figure it out. I apologize if this comes across as excessively critical or petulant, but again, I want nothing more than to be able to fully and totally support this game and see it have a successful launch.

There is nothing wrong with it man. I was just trying to understand where you are coming from. I mean I hope some of the things that have been discussed (like the issues of how the funds are spent for example) are at least helping. You have not come across as anything but a fan who wants the game to succeed. Asking questions, offering suggestions and even discussing criticism are productive tools for the developers.

Kid Rad wrote:

if things keep moving in this direction, and updates like this continue to show more and more functional versions of the game, I promise to pipe down.

Seriously Kid, I was not in any way trying to get you to 'pipe down'. I fully understand that there is a difference between criticism and hate. I expect that the devs do as well. If you have a concern, even if you can't express it fully, you should discuss it. If someone tries to dismiss you and your concerns with typical responses like calling you a 'trol'l or telling you to 'go away' just ignore them. You have just as much right to talk about the game as anyone else. If you remember that just because you can't think of a reason for something does not mean there isn't one and you should be fine with anything you discuss.

Blue Battler
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/26/2014 - 12:21
Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Blue Battler wrote:
It also means that I have three chances at finding a community that I enjoy spending time with as opposed to just one.
The argument made in the stream is the same one that has been made on forums everywhere. The community in CoH is what kept people involved and playing the game. The players are the ones responsible for creating the community. The developers are just there to setup the framework for giving people something to do. If the player base is transitory or splits time amongst multiple games there is less of a chance to form and cultivate the community that everyone seems to be seeking.

It's been five years since COX shut down. If COT (or any of the successors) are so fragile that competition will doom them they have got a prayer anyway. There are other games out there-- people have moved on and joined other communities. And no game at start up is going to live up to what COX was at shutdown in terms of content, endgame, powers and archtypes. Even if there was just ONE successor it would still be facing competition and an uncertain reaction from the former COX community.

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 58 min ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Kid Rad wrote:
Kid Rad wrote:

Nate said specifically he sacrificed the ability to show a video for the sake of streaming. Not sure why exactly it had to be either or.

The plan was to use a phone to stream and a laptop for the video. The phone's streaming sucked too much, so the laptop was repurposed for streaming, and they didn't have another laptop for the video. Stuff happens.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Online
Last seen: 7 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Nate said specifically he sacrificed the ability to show a video for the sake of streaming. Not sure why exactly it had to be either or.
The plan was to use a phone to stream and a laptop for the video. The phone's streaming sucked too much, so the laptop was repurposed for streaming, and they didn't have another laptop for the video. Stuff happens.

Refer to my post in the other thread about the other two projects (SoH & VO) not offering up their laptops to allow Nate to run a video. Yeah, thanks guys. Lots of brotherly love and kumbaya crap.

Pages