Discuss: Run. Jump. Fly. Port. Cling? (Tech)

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Zerohour
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Ok, hopefully this works.

Ok, hopefully this works. Here's my idea. Made with crummy MSpaint so I couldn't get the lower half to rotate properly to match up, but I hope you guys get the idea

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

Lin Chiao Feng
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I'm not having any trouble

I'm not having any trouble with PNGs. The icons I posted are all PNGs.

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Ok, hopefully this works. Here's my idea. Made with crummy MSpaint so I couldn't get the lower half to rotate properly to match up, but I hope you guys get the idea

Tier 9 shuriken power? ;)

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Ok, hopefully this works. Here's my idea. Made with crummy MSpaint so I couldn't get the lower half to rotate properly to match up, but I hope you guys get the idea

Either that guy is bisected by a buzzsaw or that tutu masked a second stage separation. What rotation couldn't you do? I'm having a hard time guessing.

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the thing in the middle is

the thing in the middle is meant to be a portal, and the top half of him is coming through it, while the bottom half is still in the original location but i couldnt rotate the leg bit to match up with the direction of his torso. so yes, it does look like he's being cut in half lol. i was trying to convey movement through the portal.

it was the best i could do with MSpaint and a mouse

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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It's gonna look like he's

It's gonna look like he's jumping through a hoop...

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Significant technical investment to mix and match with all power sets. Possibly a variant future power set. Technology is there, but there's a lot of effort for the amount of return.
Most likely to wind up in a shapeshifting power set, full game plus one year. Zero promises.

More specifically: it requires, at the *very* least, a complete additional skeletal setup for quadrupeds that is compatible with the UE4 systems that exist to simplify things like hand and foot placement. To be blunt, I personally wouldn't expect to see it unless and until Epic's toolkit supports generating one in the first place. And while they've expressed some potential interest in it in the long term, and some *other* tools do have this already, my sense is that it is maybe not at the top of *their* priority list.

And until MWM is making scads of money, they simply aren't realistically going to be able to afford to create one without that sort of support. It will be huge enough even if Epic provides the under-layer -- keep in mind that "the skeleton" is the very first thing you define about your characters, in general. And while I have no idea what is actually implemented, right now they can theoretically get away with "all of the major skeletons are sufficiently minor variations on a theme that you can animate it once and apply it to all of them".

To put it another way: there's a reason it took the old game well over half a decade to get around to implementing a quad skeleton that could actually move around usefully, and there's a reason that the only things you could do with it were basically "move around" and were shared with things like the dog pet. The reason quite simply being "that's all the animations they had resources to do" (at least up to that point).


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

My point is that people shouldn't become so hyper-concerned in case CoT doesn't end up running "perfectly" on low end machines in 2016 because almost by definition no game runs "perfectly" on low end hardware. People wouldn't bother buying or selling high end machines if lower end machines were always adequate for everything. By the time 2021 or 2026 comes around the "$500 laptop" of the day should be more than capable of running CoT on what will then be considered "full" settings.

If history is any guide, a $500 laptop in 2021 is going to leave a $3000 desktop of today sitting out in the cold. Alone. Waiting to die. Sad. In the snow.

Lothic wrote:

CoT should not be geared down so much that it works wonderfully on all machines at launch at the sacrifice of making it look too dated and antiquated just a few years later. If anything this game should shoot for the technological realities of 2020, not 2010.

In an ideal world one would create various props and bodies and all sorts of other goodies using artistic tools that are capable of both A) "helping" existing work by techniques such as interpolating additional high-frequency detail from the existing low-frequency detail, once a model starts to age enough that its "top end" is no longer top-end-enough, and B) representing most models in such a way that they can be turned into meshes of arbitrary granularity on demand.

Why? Because that means 1) you can generate multiple LODs with very minimal effort (generally just 'human review and minor retouch where the algorithm guessed wrong on the very rough level LODs), and 2) you can "slide" what the LODs mean without having to change your source material. So if LOD 1 today is 500 vertices and LOD2 is 200, two years from now you might see LOD 1 at 2000 and LOD 2 at 500. If you build things in a way that is future-proofed, sliding those numbers around is as simple as typing in your new target count (or, at worst, typing in numbers a few times and seeing what results, until you find one that gives you something of roughly the right budget).

Will CoT create their assets that way? Frankly, I couldn't say, beyond "the concept has been known since before the KS, the implementation is the sticking point." Which is a statement about as obvious as "the sky is blue" to anyone who has worked with assets of that sort before, so nobody should really be surprised by this. There are definite benefits, and very definite challenges, to it. But it is one of the only ways I know of to *really* future-proof something on a ten year time scale, in computer graphics.


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In order to avoid derailing

In order to avoid derailing onto non-travel UI stuff, I will simply note that I have started a UI-relevant thread at http://cityoftitans.com/forum/case-mod-support


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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

Ok, hopefully this works. Here's my idea. Made with crummy MSpaint so I couldn't get the lower half to rotate properly to match up, but I hope you guys get the idea

Darth Maul meeting his end?

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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

1) you can generate multiple LODs with very minimal effort (generally just 'human review and minor retouch where the algorithm guessed wrong on the very rough level LODs), and 2) you can "slide" what the LODs mean without having to change your source material. So if LOD 1 today is 500 vertices and LOD2 is 200, two years from now you might see LOD 1 at 2000 and LOD 2 at 500. If you build things in a way that is future-proofed, sliding those numbers around is as simple as typing in your new target count (or, at worst, typing in numbers a few times and seeing what results, until you find one that gives you something of roughly the right budget).

So, do you think the Graphics Quality Slider will change from Low,Med,High,Ultra.. to Years? ;)
..and let the user pick the year: 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016?

Or, have a utility run to check the users hardware and determine how good it handles different operations, and based on the results:
ex:
So, GPU is set to High. (which also has a subsections for FX Particles and such)
CPU is set to Med. (which also has a subsection for Physics and such)
etc...

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Or, have a utility run to check the users hardware and determine how good it handles different operations, and based on the results:
So, GPU is set to High. (which also has a subsections for FX Particles and such)
CPU is set to Med. (which also has a subsection for Physics and such)
etc...

That's pretty much what the GeForce experience does. It has all your GPU stats in the program and optimizes games for the GPU you have. It's really nice!

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Zerohour wrote:
Ok, hopefully this works. Here's my idea. Made with crummy MSpaint so I couldn't get the lower half to rotate properly to match up, but I hope you guys get the idea

Darth Maul meeting his end?

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As for teleport icons, the

As for teleport icons, the best and simplest thing I've ever seen for them is pretty straightforward: a figure on the left, a figure on the right, and an arrow from left to right, in between them. I do realize one of the designs in the thread could be summed up that way -- and it is, in fact, the *only* design I've seen in the thread that even came close to expressing 'teleport', or at least 'movement', to me without requiring someone to already know most of the context of what the icon *might* be trying to express.

Unless you plan on folks making portals in mid-air and walking through, the 'portal' style is going to be confusing. The "fade" style is pretty much never going to be intuitive at least to me, given that "invisibility" is more likely to come to mind, and teleporting rarely ever involves a "fade". The classic sound-bubble for it is, after all, "*BAMF*". Sudden. Startling. The sound of air rushing into a vacuum where a body used to be, the opposite of a lightning strike (albeit much smaller). Related to the sound of cavitation bubbles collapsing, which means it is the perfect travel power for a mantis shrimp.

What expresses teleportation in a way that isn't covered by any other power? Quite simply, "now you're here, now you're there" -- without moving through the intervening space. Go with the "international signage" body style, and a simple set of arrowing of some form (whether that ends up being chevrons, three arrows stacked, or whatever). "Here" plus "to" plus 'there". Done.


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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
1) you can generate multiple LODs with very minimal effort (generally just 'human review and minor retouch where the algorithm guessed wrong on the very rough level LODs), and 2) you can "slide" what the LODs mean without having to change your source material. So if LOD 1 today is 500 vertices and LOD2 is 200, two years from now you might see LOD 1 at 2000 and LOD 2 at 500. If you build things in a way that is future-proofed, sliding those numbers around is as simple as typing in your new target count (or, at worst, typing in numbers a few times and seeing what results, until you find one that gives you something of roughly the right budget).

So, do you think the Graphics Quality Slider will change from Low,Med,High,Ultra.. to Years? ;)
..and let the user pick the year: 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016?

More like "three years after the game releases, when nobody is actually still using the minimum settings because every card that isn't ancient can handle at least medium without breaking a sweat, make the old medium the new low, the old high the new medium, and so on, up through "bump the top end of the asset polygon calculator up for the new ultra-ultra-spiffy so that it is now 64k vertices rather than 48k" (or whatever).

It is generally impractical to try to go back in and add detail that wasn't there in the first place to an asset; there are entire software suites built around helping to do this. On the other hand, if the asset is "a big red ball", and "a ball" is defined as "a sphere" rather than "a dodecahedron", "an icosahedron", "a soccer ball", "a d100", "a d1000", or whatever happened to be the top of the line at the time it was created, then your maximum resolution can be set arbitrarily high without exceeding the available detail.

Usually this is the domain of procedurally generated "stuff'"... or ray-traced stuff. On the other hand, physically-based rendering was *also* the domain of ray-tracing until the past couple of years. Whereas now Unreal has it. Fancy that. :)

Izzy wrote:

Or, have a utility run to check the users hardware and determine how good it handles different operations, and based on the results:
ex:
So, GPU is set to High. (which also has a subsections for FX Particles and such)
CPU is set to Med. (which also has a subsection for Physics and such)
etc...

Honestly? This utility right here might well be salable on its own. To this day I do not understand why it is not a standard part of every game engine out there. "Go through a level full of various effects and combinations of effects and record which ones have how much impact on the display, in various combinations, then provide a recommended set of settings (and ideally "why this level?" and "how big a deal is it to change this?", as well).

For ages I thought that the number of debris objects was causing issues in a certain other game. Because the couple of places I ever went that caused it seemed to be places where I was firing off powers that generated a *lot* of debris, and also had water.

Turns out that it was actually the level of bloom post-processing plus the water; debris had minimal effect, but as soon as I toned down the bloom, things went from "slideshow' to "maybe not a full 60fps, but not bad". But the bloom anywhere *else* wasn't an issue, either, which is why I'd originally discounted it as a possibility.


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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Izzy wrote:
Or, have a utility run to check the users hardware and determine how good it handles different operations, and based on the results:
So, GPU is set to High. (which also has a subsections for FX Particles and such)
CPU is set to Med. (which also has a subsection for Physics and such)
etc...
That's pretty much what the GeForce experience does. It has all your GPU stats in the program and optimizes games for the GPU you have. It's really nice!

I believe it actually mostly goes the other direction, optimizing your graphics hardware setting to be tuned to support whatever that particular game happens to have as its heavy loads? Also useful, but not quite the same; adjusting the graphics settings in the game lets you control where the effort is being spent in the first place.


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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

As for teleport icons, the best and simplest thing I've ever seen for them is pretty straightforward: a figure on the left, a figure on the right, and an arrow from left to right, in between them.

Empyrean wrote:

- 0 ---------> 0
- \|/ --------> \|/
_/'\_ -----> _/'\_
Nailed it.

Told ya I nailed it :P.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
As for teleport icons, the best and simplest thing I've ever seen for them is pretty straightforward: a figure on the left, a figure on the right, and an arrow from left to right, in between them.

Empyrean wrote:
- 0 ---------> 0
- \|/ --------> \|/
_/'\_ -----> _/'\_
Nailed it.

Told ya I nailed it :P.

Triple Archery ranged DPS set?

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Technological limitations due

I had to use three arrows due to the technological limitations of the text-based visual platform I was working in (ie., post wouldn't show too many empty spaces so I had to use an arrow on each line for the spacing to work out). But you know what I was going for.

Hey, I'm more of a conceptual artist. I'll let the graphics monkeys hammer out the details.

Triple-arrowed it!

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
As for teleport icons, the best and simplest thing I've ever seen for them is pretty straightforward: a figure on the left, a figure on the right, and an arrow from left to right, in between them.

Empyrean wrote:
- 0 ---------> 0
- \|/ --------> \|/
_/'\_ -----> _/'\_
Nailed it.

Told ya I nailed it :P.

Awesome!

Pengy wrote:

Triple Archery ranged DPS set?

ROFLMAO

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

The classic sound-bubble for it is, after all, "*BAMF*". Sudden. Startling. The sound of air rushing into a vacuum where a body used to be, the opposite of a lightning strike (albeit much smaller). Related to the sound of cavitation bubbles collapsing, which means it is the perfect travel power for a mantis shrimp.

I liked the Order of the Stick sound, where spells' casting phrases were just the name of the spell. So when someone uses Teleport, at the departing end you see them say "Tele-" and disappear, and at the arriving end you see them appear, saying "-port!" It would be fun to get a teleport sound like this to freak people out. (Yes, I know UGC sound is verboten; not talking about that.)

(Similarly, "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning" written on something.)

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Pengy wrote:
Pengy wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
As for teleport icons, the best and simplest thing I've ever seen for them is pretty straightforward: a figure on the left, a figure on the right, and an arrow from left to right, in between them.

Empyrean wrote:
- 0 ---------> 0
- \|/ --------> \|/
_/'\_ -----> _/'\_
Nailed it.

Told ya I nailed it :P.

Triple Archery ranged DPS set?

DSFH and I are pretty much in agreement. My marketing / art ad friend had recommended avoiding a human figure (even a silhouette) particularly in prototype but even later (because the alpha usage tends to stick) simply due to art constraints. KISS and all that. Similarly to the text based concepts above, have you ever really looked at CoH's icons for teleport? Other than the actual travel, tp friend and foe were just dots with lines between them and a little "hit" graphic (for tp foe).


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

have you ever really looked at CoH's icons for teleport? Other than the actual travel, tp friend and foe were just dots with lines between them and a little "hit" graphic (for tp foe).

. . . .

Why yes ... yes I have ...


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

DSFH and I are pretty much in agreement. My marketing / art ad friend had recommended avoiding a human figure (even a silhouette) particularly in prototype but even later (because the alpha usage tends to stick) simply due to art constraints. KISS and all that. Similarly to the text based concepts above, have you ever really looked at CoH's icons for teleport? Other than the actual travel, tp friend and foe were just dots with lines between them and a little "hit" graphic (for tp foe).

Here I have to disagree, although not horrifically. Given that we are presumably already going to need a basic silhouette for other reasons, it seems like using those helps convey the message by showing you the concept that there is a *person* going from here to there. Otherwise, it's just... an arrow, which is a bit *too* generic.

I'll point out that three of the five icons CoH used *do* have silhouettes, and the other two have "top down" silhouettes (well, "heads"). We're not necessarily talking terribly complex graphics here. :)


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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

I liked the Order of the Stick sound, where spells' casting phrases were just the name of the spell. So when someone uses Teleport, at the departing end you see them say "Tele-" and disappear, and at the arriving end you see them appear, saying "-port!" It would be fun to get a teleport sound like this to freak people out. (Yes, I know UGC sound is verboten; not talking about that.)

Seems like it would work if there is ever a "noise visualizer" equivalent. No idea if they'll do that, though; it works in CO because it fits the art style and nominal setting. On the other hand, it'd make for an awesome option for the audio effect part of a teleport power (who said decoupling is only for visuals?)

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

(Similarly, "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning" written on something.)

Does it count if, before reading the Obvious Tome Of Summoning (Is Obvious), you laid down as many trip mines as you could before the oldest started to time out? And set up your minions with the explosive attacks in a nice staggered circle so that they had clear fields of fire past each other? I mean, it isn't the *reader* getting blown to hell in that case, but still... as a Bots/Traps? Best. Moment. EVAR. Well, one of them, at least. It seriously left me with fits of maniacal giggling for hours afterwards.


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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
DSFH and I are pretty much in agreement. My marketing / art ad friend had recommended avoiding a human figure (even a silhouette) particularly in prototype but even later (because the alpha usage tends to stick) simply due to art constraints. KISS and all that. Similarly to the text based concepts above, have you ever really looked at CoH's icons for teleport? Other than the actual travel, tp friend and foe were just dots with lines between them and a little "hit" graphic (for tp foe).

Here I have to disagree, although not horrifically. Given that we are presumably already going to need a basic silhouette for other reasons, it seems like using those helps convey the message by showing you the concept that there is a *person* going from here to there. Otherwise, it's just... an arrow, which is a bit *too* generic.
I'll point out that three of the five icons CoH used *do* have silhouettes, and the other two have "top down" silhouettes (well, "heads"). We're not necessarily talking terribly complex graphics here. :)

And bear in mind that wall-climbing was switched from an animal shape to a silhouette shape. IMHO travel powers should all have silhouettes, since the player avatar is the focus of the operation.

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
I liked the Order of the Stick sound, where spells' casting phrases were just the name of the spell. So when someone uses Teleport, at the departing end you see them say "Tele-" and disappear, and at the arriving end you see them appear, saying "-port!" It would be fun to get a teleport sound like this to freak people out. (Yes, I know UGC sound is verboten; not talking about that.)

Seems like it would work if there is ever a "noise visualizer" equivalent. No idea if they'll do that, though; it works in CO because it fits the art style and nominal setting. On the other hand, it'd make for an awesome option for the audio effect part of a teleport power (who said decoupling is only for visuals?)

The latter case is what I was going for.

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
(Similarly, "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning" written on something.)

Does it count if, before reading the Obvious Tome Of Summoning (Is Obvious), you laid down as many trip mines as you could before the oldest started to time out? And set up your minions with the explosive attacks in a nice staggered circle so that they had clear fields of fire past each other? I mean, it isn't the *reader* getting blown to hell in that case, but still... as a Bots/Traps? Best. Moment. EVAR. Well, one of them, at least. It seriously left me with fits of maniacal giggling for hours afterwards.

I used to do that all the time. The field of mines was my "flower garden". Slotted two recharge reducers into Trip Mine so I could get more out there. And if the ragdoll physics were more predictable, I would have tried to do something akin to skipping stones across the lake.

The smaller version of this was when I'd lay about four mines out in a semicircle next to a wall, then shoot a Rikti Headman Gunman and then duck behind the wall to stand in the center of the semicircle. The Headman Gunman would invariably teleport right into the mines and get completely blown up by three of them before the teleport animation finished.

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I'm trying to keep my eyes

I'm trying to keep my eyes open for interesting UI menus, and this seems very easy, while allowing for an enormous selection of choices.

Video here: ... note: Mature content* +18 (sorry)
https://youtu.be/-tBpWgOkxFU?t=6m22s

Plus, as you will see, there is No Text, just large icons.

I guess The Sims does that as well, but I feel i'm stuck behind a learning curve.. cant jump in and have it be super easy from the start. :/

Thoughts?

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

I'm trying to keep my eyes open for interesting UI menus, and this seems very easy, while allowing for an enormous selection of choices.
Video here: ... note: Mature content* +18 (sorry)https://youtu.be/-tBpWgOkxFU?t=6m22s
Plus, as you will see, there is No Text, just large icons.
I guess The Sims does that as well, but I feel i'm stuck behind a learning curve.. cant jump in and have it be super easy from the start. :/
Thoughts?

I don't know, it would depend on where and how it is used.

I would not recommend using it for something like the main menu since having to memorize what icon goes to what would probably turn some people off. As far as I can see the only place where it would really do "justice" would be at places where you need quick and easy access to a large number of option like the character creator and possibly the crafting system.

I'd say that it's at least worth looking at and see if it fits.

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Put me down as a great hater

Put me down as a great hater of no-text icon buttons (or palettes or whatever) representing commands in UIs. Icons are nouns, commands are verbs. That's not a New Document, that's a sheet of paper. That's not Open, that's a folder. That's not Save, that's a floppy disk (which anyone who hasn't used computers from before five years ago won't recognize). Sure, you can be trained to match these icons with verbs, but the choice of icons is still arbitrary.

We've already demonstrated that there's a degree of arbitrary needed for CoT's power icons for this very reason. The best we can do is keep things consistent.

BTW, Izzy, almost everything in that UI you linked is nouns, not verbs, which is why it works at all. Poses are nouns, body parts are nouns, clothing items are nouns. It works the same as in art-program palettes: the palette icons represent the tools that are emulated, the objects created, or the modes (selection, drag, crop, etc.) entered.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Put me down as a great hater of no-text icon buttons (or palettes or whatever) representing commands in UIs. Icons are nouns, commands are verbs. That's not a New Document, that's a sheet of paper. That's not Open, that's a folder. That's not Save, that's a floppy disk (which anyone who hasn't used computers from before five years ago won't recognize). Sure, you can be trained to match these icons with verbs, but the choice of icons is still arbitrary.
We've already demonstrated that there's a degree of arbitrary needed for CoT's power icons for this very reason. The best we can do is keep things consistent.
BTW, Izzy, almost everything in that UI you linked is nouns, not verbs, which is why it works at all. Poses are nouns, body parts are nouns, clothing items are nouns. It works the same as in art-program palettes: the palette icons represent the tools that are emulated, the objects created, or the modes (selection, drag, crop, etc.) entered.

Technically, every verb is a noun, in the sense that it is a concept (this isn't the same as "what the verb represents" being a noun). At least in English. Of course, by the same token, every noun can be verbed...

More relevant, however: the way to address the problem in situations where you *do* need a tight menu, but not all of the relevant information has any visually obvious encoding, is twofold:

  1. Have *good* tooltips. Even better, have good *multi-level* tooltips anywhere that it is relevant. The UE4 editor has this, although only a few spots have been set up to really use it well, yet. But where it is done, it actually works *really* well -- you hover over it (or whatever other action is normally expected for 'display tooltip') and it gives you a very brief description. In the case of, say, power icons, it would tell you what the name of the power was. *Maybe* the "percent recharged", depending on user feedback, since I know of exactly zero graphical representations of a recharge level that work "at a glance" on a small button. Hit a modifier key (or more than one; UE4's editor defaults to Ctrl+Alt) and it will expand into a significant description. That might or might not even be the *complete* description, but it would cover everything that one might realistically need to know in any "momentary" time frame. which is to say "any time the user is focused on playing rather than researching".
  2. Make tooltips optional at multiple levels: normally "hover" is the default trigger, but it would be nice to be able to say "only if I am holding down the '3' on the keypad" as a trigger, rather than just "hover" or "nothing". Same for configuring the "show me more". Probably 90% or more of folks are fine as long as they have at least "hover" and "off", but supporting the ability to set up the rest for the folks who care isn't particularly difficult in UE4. Where "not particularly difficult" means "I don't recall it off the top of my head, but I know where to look to find out in less than ten minutes, and expect to need no more than half an hour to get the core pieces set up and working".

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Yes, every verb can be

Yes, every verb can be repurposed into a noun, but this property does not grant every verb a corresponding unambiguous icon image. Hence half this thread.

And the whole point of my rant was to at least imply tooltips (guess I should have been more explicit), but even better would be labeled icons, which are compatible with touch interfaces in the way that any hover-based UI isn't, and has no time delay to access. Triggered tooltips are a nice solution for the latter problem, and a way to expand the tip to full-on help is even better.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Yes, every verb can be repurposed into a noun, but this property does not grant every verb a corresponding unambiguous icon image. Hence half this thread.
And the whole point of my rant was to at least imply tooltips (guess I should have been more explicit), but even better would be labeled icons, which are compatible with touch interfaces in the way that any hover-based UI isn't, and has no time delay to access. Triggered tooltips are a nice solution for the latter problem, and a way to expand the tip to full-on help is even better.

As an interesting point of note, there are some fairly profound differences between touch UIs and mouse UIs -- or rather, between obscuring and non-obscuring interaction (whether your selection mechanism blocks visual feedback from what you are trying to interact with) and between coarse and fine resolution targeting. Which covers more than just touch and mouse, but those are the two biggest examples.

In case it isn't obvious from the above: touch UIs are obscuring/coarse, mouse UIs are generally non-obscuring/fine. Contoller UIs are non-obscuring/coarse, as a rule. I can't think of a good example of obscuring/fine, possibly because it is almost an oxymoron (in general to get fine control you must have immediate visual feedback). Maybe a stylus UI for some cases.

The implication of this is that there may well be very good reasons for having two completely separate but standard UIs, at least for parts of the game or associated software that are expected to run and be used extensively on both "desktop" and "mobile" -- things that make a great deal of sense, or are even bordering on "absolutely necessary" on one can easily be things that feel clunky and nearly unusable on the other.

So whether "labelled icons" is better depends a great deal on the exact context in question; they definitely *are* better for those unfamiliar, UIs that have the room to spare, UIs that have trouble representing icons well, or UIs that are primarily actions that don't map well to visual indicators. On the other hand, they're a really poor choice for a UI that needs a very compact representation, a lack of extraneous information (including redundant information), require a high information density, and/or where users are expected to quickly memorize and internalize the icons for whatever thing is represented so long as they are even arguably mnemonic.

... and most MMOs have both of them, not infrequently onscreen at the same time. Not a small challenge. I'm hopeful that they'll find a way to not *have* to compromise, because honestly, I have yet to see any compromise that was not either A) so complex to set up that it was almost its own problem (mods tend to fall into this group), or B) at best a strained compromise that showed a lot of the seams and never really felt 'good' at either end.


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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

I think we'd be more likely to do horses first.
They always want to be the centaur of attention.
(insert sad trombone noise)
Ahem. So... who says you can't customize your shapeshifted power set? Don't write limitations into things till they're done.
Still, we'll have to see what happens. It'd be a _lot_ of fairly expensive work.

What about tech origin people? Transformers?

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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You mean like this?

You mean like this?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

You mean like this?

Dear gods.... loved that anime as a kid.

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Heh...

Heh...

Got 200 tons of cargo to get into orbit fast and only a short field? No problem...

The Herc's got competition for shortest time and distance to 1000 AGL...

Now that we're at angels 400, level off and set course heading away from our orbital path...

Because orbital insertion is one long 2 G Immelmann...

Welcome to 200 miles up.

That's the Pacific up ahead...

Hey, it's what I could get to work in 2005.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
You mean like this?

Dear gods.... loved that anime as a kid.

We're gonna have to look at you funny if you liked Southern Cross.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
You mean like this?
Dear gods.... loved that anime as a kid.
We're gonna have to look at you funny if you liked Southern Cross.

My Vanir/Alfar hybrid magesmith Crux stares right back. After you look away, she flips the visor of her helmet down and transforms her powered armor back into a motorcycle before riding away....

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
You mean like this?
Dear gods.... loved that anime as a kid.
We're gonna have to look at you funny if you liked Southern Cross.

The original Anime is quite good. The Robotech bastardization..... not so much.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Planet10 wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
You mean like this?
Dear gods.... loved that anime as a kid.
We're gonna have to look at you funny if you liked Southern Cross.
The original Anime is quite good. The Robotech bastardization..... not so much.

Aww, I'm watching that right now on Netflix and feeling some great nostalgia though I do laugh from time to time at the premise of the Zentraedi and their reactions to human emotions. Also, being older the spartan animation techniques now leave something to be desired. Otherwise, the kid in me says mechs, a race of giants, battles, explosions and GIANT ship/robot, AWESOME!

RIP Roy Fokker and Ben

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

Aww, I'm watching that right now on Netflix and feeling some great nostalgia

If you haven't already, watch Martian Successor Nadesico ^_^

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

You mean like this?

Exactly what I mean

What is that? It looks cool.

As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
You mean like this?

Exactly what I mean
What is that? It looks cool.

That is Cyclone armor from the Robotech anime. It is a modular armor / transport system that allows the user / rider to transform between the two states.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Phararri wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
You mean like this?
Exactly what I mean
What is that? It looks cool.
That is Cyclone armor from the Robotech anime. It is a modular armor / transport system that allows the user / rider to transform between the two states.

Robotech itself being an American bastardization of The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, with "Cyclone" being a renaming of the latter's MOSPAEDA (Military Operation Soldier Protection Emergency Aviation Dive Armor).

It was nice when the 80's ended and people could finally admit that Americans could watch anime without completely rewriting it.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

It was nice when the 80's ended

YOU TAKE THAT BACK THE EIGHTIES WERE AMAZING

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
It was nice when the 80's ended
YOU TAKE THAT BACK THE EIGHTIES WERE AMAZING

It was indeed...

Although I *cannot* watch a single episode of She-Ra.... He-Man, not a problem...

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
It was nice when the 80's ended
YOU TAKE THAT BACK THE EIGHTIES WERE AMAZING
It was indeed...
Although I *cannot* watch a single episode of She-Ra.... He-Man, not a problem...

The saccharine content is pretty high in those shows. I'm surprised more children from the 80s didn't have juvenile diabetes. Maybe it was because our parents actually kicked us out of the house to go skin our knees and dirty our hands in the outside world until the sun was going down. #TheMoreYouKnow #GIJooooooeeeeee

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" . . . And Knowing is Half

" . . . And Knowing is Half the Battle!"

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"Information is ammunition."

"Information is ammunition."

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"Knowledge is power."

"Knowledge is power."

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I grew up in the 80s and have

I grew up in the 80s and have fond memories, mostly of cartoons like Thundarr, The Barbarian, Thundercats, etc. That said, the 60's and 70's were really the golden era for that. Race Bannon killed people on early episodes of Johnny Quest. Dead. Those were the days when the robot toys were made of toxic plastic and the plastic missiles actually fired out of the spring-loaded launchers like FAR across the room.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

and the plastic missiles actually fired out of the spring-loaded launchers like FAR across the room.

Dude, my Mattel Shogun Warriors Godzilla's fist shot like 10 feet and it was solid plastic, way heavier than Great Mazinga's shooting fist--it must have weighed a pound (http://geekleagueofamerica.com/2011/09/15/jeffs-favorite-70s-and-80s-toys/2/).

Gave my little brothers lots of goose eggs with that thing :P

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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All that 80's stuff you guys

All that 80's stuff you guys mention was written for the US market in the first place, though. Some of it was good, most not so much. I'm personally partial to Galaxy Rangers...

Detective Briscoe in Space!

I was talking about the stuff that was beat up beyond recognition when it was brought over here. Gatchaman turning into Battle of the Planets, Super Sentai turning into Power Rangers, and the aforementioned Robotech being the three big examples that come to mind.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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I never had much time for the

I never had much time for the cartoons of the 80s (I was a bit more a child of the 70s) but I do appreciate good spoofs of them such as:

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

I was talking about the stuff that was beat up beyond recognition when it was brought over here. Gatchaman turning into Battle of the Planets, Super Sentai turning into Power Rangers, and the aforementioned Robotech being the three big examples that come to mind.

Robotech was three big examples all by itself! ^_^

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Loved those cartoons, but I

Loved those cartoons, but I can fully admit, after rewatching the first season of the original Voltron, it feels very bad now :(

He-Man, She-Ra, Thundercats, Jem...these do not...but Voltron. *sigh* The memories are better!

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say can someone give me a

say can someone give me a link to this update? I can't see it anywhere...

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

say can someone give me a link to this update? I can't see it anywhere...

https://cityoftitans.com/forum/run-jump-fly-port-cling-tech

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

notears wrote:
say can someone give me a link to this update? I can't see it anywhere...
https://cityoftitans.com/forum/run-jump-fly-port-cling-tech
Be Well!
Fireheart

thank you

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For the teleport (tp) icon

For the teleport (tp) icon what about 2 people with an arrow pointing from one to the other? Maybe also have the 'arm' of the arrow segmented?
If needed/possible fade the inner half of each person to show them fading out/in?

The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer

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cybermitheral wrote:
cybermitheral wrote:

For the teleport (tp) icon what about 2 people with an arrow pointing from one to the other? Maybe also have the 'arm' of the arrow segmented?
If needed/possible fade the inner half of each person to show them fading out/in?

We discussed that some time back. I even proposed an icon:

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Looks like I missed a whole

Looks like I missed a whole page of comments lol.

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