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Discuss: Pieces of a Game

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warcabbit
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Discuss: Pieces of a Game

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Foradain
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Is that combat going on in

Is that combat going on in Titan City, or in a generic UE4 test space?

Be careful having combat in residential neighborhoods. You never know which house has a couple of mad scientists living there with their kids...

And a link until it goes up on our front page. ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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warcabbit
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As you wish, Foradain. I'll

As you wish, Foradain. I'll have to do my best to remember that from now on.

It's not a generic UE4 test space, but it's not a finished part of Titan City either. We needed a clear and open area to test sightlines for the AI - you'll notice enemies wandering around in it.
There is an area of Titan City that'll look substantially like this, mind you.

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It's interesting to learn

It's interesting to learn that combat, animations, etc. can be developed separately and that there are considerable advantages to doing so. It does seem to confirm what I've suspected: that one day MWM can put everything together and we'll get a video that puts everything else we've seen in the shade. Maybe we'll even get to log into the game before long, so we can all stand around and do nothing!

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

warcabbit
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To vastly simplify: when you

To vastly simplify: when you're working on the infrastructure and need to shut down and rebuild the database for three days, it helps if you have a different system that combat design can keep being developed in.

No sense shutting down three or four projects just to improve one.

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Great to hear of the

Great to hear of the modularity and great to see two modules making great progress! Thank you very much for the update, a lot of work being done and also kudos to those who wrote the update, it's very clear.

"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
"One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon

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Ooooh, nifty. I know it's

Ooooh, nifty. I know it's unfinished, but the suburbs are already looking extremely good already, compared to a lot of games I've seen around.

Can't wait for the character creator to get integrated, though - the gray crash dummies are good for quick builds, I understand, but the character customization was in the heart and soul of CoH; CoT just won't feel right until it's put in!

Thanks for the update! It looks great!

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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More excellent stuff, folks!

More excellent stuff, folks!

I liked seeing the combat in the residential neighbourhood and imagining what the final version will be like, but for some reason the bit with the devs standing around and chatting got to me more. I felt quite a wave of combined nostalgia and hope when I saw that.

It's getting harder to wait as it gets closer, but these glimpses help confirm that CoT is shaping up to be exactly what I have been missing.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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You continue to stoke my fire

You continue to stoke my fire. I'm always glad to see progress. Keep up the hard work, it will pay off in the end.

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The environment looks amazing

The environment looks amazing even at this early stage!
Thank you and keep up the great work!

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Good update. I liked the

Good update. I liked the chat demo. In that, at 1:25 Revolution takes to the air, and there's a pretty obvious "hover" animation loop happening for a few loops before he (or she?) flys away. Obviously that would be a thing to keep working on, not that this would be news to anyone, I don't think. Personally, with the "hover in place" motion, I would have the entire body more or less motionless, and then just let the whole body bob up and down and maybe wander a little left and right, maybe, just a little. The less the avatar moves its arms and legs in something like that the better.

Of course then again, maybe what I saw was the result of plain old-fashioned rubberbanding due to frame rate issues or network latency, etc. There was some of that in both videos too.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

warcabbit
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Nope, you're right. You see

Nope, you're right. You see Flight, Superjump, Superspeed, and I teleport when I vanish. Again, we've got the bare minimal animations there - just enough to know 'it works'. The blendspace'd flight is scheduled after the 4th.
Make it work, then we make it pretty.

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Really nice update, gets not

Really nice update, gets not only my hopes up for a really good game but also my "withdrawal" symptoms for a game that I can really loose myself in. Hardly any game has been able to do (after the novelty has worn off) it since CoX shut down.

Also nice to know that UE is built for that kind of segmentation since it'll make the overall development more effective. Speaks not only for the initial development but also for the continuous development and improvements after launch.

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Very cool update and nice to

Very cool update and nice to hear how you guys are separating things out to make it go smoother. Totally makes sense.

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Looking good :-) it's nice to

Looking good :-) it's nice to see clear progress, good work all you talented peeps!

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Just seeing avatars standing

Just seeing avatars standing around chat bubbling in an urban setting is enough to nostalgia me up.

Then a guy flies.

And that roundhouse fiery foot hadoken? The stuff of dreams.

I love you guys so much, keep it coming. I want to be there one day.

Formerly @Fireforged, member of In Hoc Signo Vinces
Characters: Fireforged, Shadowforged, Pyreforged, Grumpy Bear, Heal Machine, Stormalong, Kingdom Red 10-23, Jaster Mereel, Steam Rifle Scarlet, Nemesis Rector

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Great stuff guys - awesome

Great stuff guys - awesome update. Keep up the good work!

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Good work to see! That

Good work to see! That CharGen is looking much better too.

It's also good to see the networked space

Keep it up. We're counting on you.

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Networking is testing well.

Networking is testing well. The laucher is being reworked. We've got updated character models. We have a better looking chat UI that I just haven't moved in yet. In fact we have an active task force working and brainstorming on that very subject. It's a cross depart team as will be the map task force (already in assembly). The combat algorithm is near completion and being tested and debugged even now. We've got better server stuff coming along too. Lots of pieces just coming together and we've managed to recruit more team member so some of us (like yours truly) aren't spread out so thin.

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As usual, pleased by the new

As usual, pleased by the new videos popping up on the YouTube channel... Thank you for every step closer to launch day (or Character Creator Day), when I can get my family & friends back into the best style of superhero MMO.

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Thanks for the Update! Made

Thanks for the Update! Made my day!
What stood out to me was multiple firing points. The hand, the foot, and I think...the but. Now combat is going to be really interesting.

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Nope, not the butt. CoT is

Nope, not the butt. CoT is going to be a family friendly thing. No inappropriate regions will be available for powers. Ever.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Nope, not the butt. CoT is going to be a family friendly thing. No inappropriate regions will be available for powers. Ever.

Oh good. For a moment I was worried we'd get certain juvenile characters that do energy beams from hip thrusts or something. Glad to hear that's not the case.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

Shadow Elusive wrote:
Nope, not the butt. CoT is going to be a family friendly thing. No inappropriate regions will be available for powers. Ever.
Oh good. For a moment I was worried we'd get certain juvenile characters that do energy beams from hip thrusts or something. Glad to hear that's not the case.

But But But... FemBots?! :<

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

But But But... FemBots?! :<

Austin Powers was PG-13, buddy. Too racy for Titan blood :P!

Nice update. Looks to me like the scaffolding that the animations and art will rest upon is starting to come together. Great work!!!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Halae wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:
Nope, not the butt. CoT is going to be a family friendly thing. No inappropriate regions will be available for powers. Ever.
Oh good. For a moment I was worried we'd get certain juvenile characters that do energy beams from hip thrusts or something. Glad to hear that's not the case.
But But But... FemBots?! :<

Definitely not, nope.

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Quote:
Quote:

The blendspace'd flight is scheduled after the 4th.

This is an intriguing comment.

The first time I watched the chat video it seemed like you were all part of the most awkward guild.

The combat video was very interesting. I'd say his KD is totally over powered but I've no idea what level he is vs his opponents. The Capoeira fire slinging was awesome. My scrapper senses are already tingling. If the animations can be accelerated just a touch to give the movement a bit more feeling of power that would be great. I'm struggling not to let myself get too hyped.

Great update. I know there was some negative comments about the last update but I still feel like any update is better than none, which you get so often from other games and studios especially when they have been crowdfunded. I've funded a few projects and a few I've never heard from again. I appreciate more than anything that you've kept open to us and kept us up to date on progress even if it is just a peek at some different lore.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Nope, not the butt. CoT is going to be a family friendly thing. No inappropriate regions will be available for powers. Ever.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought it looked like that. :)

I was imagining making a tribute toon of The Spleen from Mystery Men.

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Bravo guys. The modular

Bravo guys. The modular aspect does make sense. Not being a programmer, those bits of info are interesting. Like the way you guys seem to be going with the animations. In the end, it'll all hinge on a combination of the animations, the supplemental (for lack of a better word) effects, and the sound I guess. Eagerly awaiting more! Haha. Great work guys.

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Congrats on the progress!

Congrats on the progress!
With the scenery updates and NPC activity,
will there be a secret identity sensor or alert?

The visual of pulling off a mask for your loved one would be cool to see instead of an automatic facial change.
Organically revealing your real face would look nice showing the metamorphosis

RAN Ink

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Networking is testing well. The laucher is being reworked. We've got updated character models. We have a better looking chat UI that I just haven't moved in yet. In fact we have an active task force working and brainstorming on that very subject. It's a cross depart team as will be the map task force (already in assembly). The combat algorithm is near completion and being tested and debugged even now. We've got better server stuff coming along too. Lots of pieces just coming together and we've managed to recruit more team member so some of us (like yours truly) aren't spread out so thin.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that reads like there's going to be a huge progress threshold being met soon :)

Kelgore Universe (my various toons)

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As a computer guy I realise

As a computer guy I realise that making videos robs development time.

As a backer I'm very encouraged to see visible signs of progress, thanks.

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grouchyguy wrote:
grouchyguy wrote:

As a computer guy I realise that making videos robs development time.

Not as much as you may think since they do have to test it at some point anyway, so why not make a video of it. Sure they most likely make it a bit more presentable than normal testing sessions go but that "extra" use of resources are not that big and can probably taken out of "meeting time" instead of "dev time".

Besides, if all those present in those videos are team leaders and/or managers of some sort then they are probably not producing that much code/assets compared to other members in the first place.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

grouchyguy wrote:
As a computer guy I realise that making videos robs development time.
Not as much as you may think since they do have to test it at some point anyway, so why not make a video of it. Sure they most likely make it a bit more presentable than normal testing sessions go but that "extra" use of resources are not that big and can probably taken out of "meeting time" instead of "dev time".

"Make it a bit more presentable" is typically not a trivial task. Testing a a piece of software, even a game, is generally neither fun nor interesting to watch.

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This looks like a job for SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!!!

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Networking is testing well. The laucher is being reworked. We've got updated character models. We have a better looking chat UI that I just haven't moved in yet. In fact we have an active task force working and brainstorming on that very subject. It's a cross depart team as will be the map task force (already in assembly). The combat algorithm is near completion and being tested and debugged even now. We've got better server stuff coming along too. Lots of pieces just coming together and we've managed to recruit more team member so some of us (like yours truly) aren't spread out so thin.

All of this is great news, to me.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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How close are you to showing

How close are you to showing a finished character model with at least a few finished outfits?

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Those odo bots already

Those odo bots already looking like cheap high tech robots . So if there included as a in game item or enemy, The answer would be now.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

How close are you to showing a finished character model with at least a few finished outfits?

Technically, we sort of just did. It's got a glitch or two we have to fix - and that's real work - but that screenshot has multiple outfits already.
Now, eyes and hair, that's a separate story... especially physics hair.

Working on it.

When will we show you something finalized? Er.
After the 4th, probably. Can't say when.

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I was actually asking about a

Thank you for replying. I was actually asking about a complete model, with textures, eyes and hair but I can wait.

What kind of hair physics are you going to use? Particle or polygon?
In case I am using the wrong terms for it this is what I mean by particle

And what I mean by polygon

Do you plan to use any kind of shaders for the game overall? Right now all of the videos are showing a much more photo realistic than I was expecting.
I was expecting things to look more like the 3d images from animations that have been rendered to look like traditional cell animation.

Or is the game going to go for a more realistic setting like in the Arkham games

It seems like right now the textures for your 3d models seem to be using the stock ones from UE or from a texture pack you purchased instead of ones you made yourself. I am assuming that the final atmosphere and rendering is not being shown in the videos you are showing so far but I cannot find anything that tells me what the final games atmosphere will be.
The cell animation look is more interesting to me and would probably hold up longer before they look dated than any kind of realistic graphics would.

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Cell shading has a bit of a

Cell shading has a bit of a bad taste after the efforts Champions Online displayed. That being said, either would count as 'post-processing', and would not show up at this level of development anyhow.

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Champions online was very 80

Again thanks for the reply. I was hoping you had decided on the final look of the game even if you were not at the post processing phase so could shed some light on it.
It might not change anything but I still think trying to make the game too realistic will be the wrong choice.

I agree that Champions online used cel shading poorly. It had a very 80's saturday morning cartoon look on both environment and character models. It was a dull use of cel shading with no soft shading and it had plain or solid textures.
I was thinking more along the lines of current uses of soft shading and cel shading combined. You can provide highly detailed models that do not age as quickly as technology advances Like here:

Shading for the environment can also use more detailed textures and techniques like in the movie Assault on Arkham. Focus on the background and not the character models.

A better example of pure cel shading vs cel shading with soft shading below. The first is almost pure cel shading and the second is cel and soft shading.

Just something to think about.

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The only good looking Cel

The only good looking Cel-Shading to my liking that i would give an OK to for CoT..
..is the one that `Guilty Gear Xrd` does.

example with how they do that: https://youtu.be/yhGjCzxJV3E

it's very time consuming and adds allot more effort i'm afraid. :p

Maybe someday, a good number of years, we can make cutscenes in player made UGC content, and be able to pick Cel-Shading as the style. :)

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I have to say the last couple

I have to say the last couple of videos are encouraging. Really looking forward to the day we get to have a poke around the City ourselves!

I have a few questions if I may. Appreciate any info you can share.

Are the capoeira-style animations an indication of something you anticipate being (or at least hope to have) in the game? I have a background in martial arts and it would be cool if there are a variety of options for the look of such things.

I'm not sure how to describe this in a technically accurate fashion, but are we seeing powers and animations that are dynamically connected? That is, are those fire blasts and the accompanying animations hard-wired together, or do you already have the capacity for aesthetic decoupling you have discussed in the past?

And as much as I enjoy seeing this technical progress, is there a possibility we'll see more game mechanics updates in the near future, with further info on powersets, augments, or something on those lines?

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What kind of processor and

What kind of processor and specs would you recommend for a computer to run smooth with COT?

RAN Ink

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

The only good looking Cel-Shading to my liking that i would give an OK to for CoT..
..is the one that `Guilty Gear Xrd` does.

example with how they do that: https://youtu.be/yhGjCzxJV3E

it's very time consuming and adds allot more effort i'm afraid. :p

Maybe someday, a good number of years, we can make cutscenes in player made UGC content, and be able to pick Cel-Shading as the style. :)

That is some great anime style cell shading and it looks great for that game but I don't think it fits this game.
I also really liked the cel shading in the Telltale games. Even the new Batman game they are doing looks pretty cool. Borderlands has neat looking cel shading too. But those games have pretty basic models and rely on cel shade textures to provide depths instead of more complex models. That technique would not look as good for city of titans. I think the examples I gave are a better choice.

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Silent Sillo wrote:
Silent Sillo wrote:

What kind of processor and specs would you recommend for a computer to run smooth with COT?

From what I understand, they're planning on having a slider for graphics details, so that it will work on older, slower machines, and they're testing it on a many-years-old Mac, among others. ^_^

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The point being, such as it

The point being, such as it is, that sort of shading is a post-processing effect - something that we can add after much of the game is built. It's not something we're inclined towards, but it's also not something we've been focused on yet.
Once we get to the point where we can focus on it, it is possible our inclinations will change.

Yes, the animations and attacks are fully dynamic - the fire blasts are actually the same FX animation, being triggered with three different attack animations.
We were waiting for someone to notice that. There's a few other things in there for people to notice if they look hard enough.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

The point being, such as it is, that sort of shading is a post-processing effect - something that we can add after much of the game is built. It's not something we're inclined towards, but it's also not something we've been focused on yet.
Once we get to the point where we can focus on it, it is possible our inclinations will change..

No I understood you were not at that point but I thought this was a place to offer our thoughts.

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Those manikin bots have GOT

Those manikin bots have GOT to be an available costume. Maybe make it available to people who funded the kickstarter or something like that.

Also, I love the reputation system you're working on. I just hope its not linear. What I mean by this is that someone with a stellar reputation as lawful is going to have his or her reputation harmed far more by an unlawful deed than someone with only a somewhat lawful reputation. You know how the public loves watching sensational stories of the mighty falling. Likewise some evil criminal kingpin will have his or her fear lessened by showing mercy to someone far more than if some kinda-evil guy does. And the opposite goes for improving a reputation. Someone with a stellar reputation is EXPECTED to be stellar, so any good acts only barely improve reputation. In other words reputations are a whole lot harder to build than they are to destroy.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Yes, the animations and attacks are fully dynamic - the fire blasts are actually the same FX animation, being triggered with three different attack animations.
We were waiting for someone to notice that. There's a few other things in there for people to notice if they look hard enough.

That is very cool. So you have the ability to attach different animations to the same power activation? I watched the video once more and it looks like currently the origin point of the projectile is always the same, but I suppose that is something in the works? I remember first reading about this idea and it's great to see it coming about. Being able to realize fire blast, for example, as coming from a weapon, a fantastic or alien race, a mutant ability or arcane power with appropriate animations would really help make characters feel like a personal creation--an extension of part of what made City of Heroes great to me.

I'm curious as to what else you're referring to. I do see some very nice visual effects, such as being able to see the interiors of the buildings, glare on the car windows, and trees/hedges swaying in the breeze.

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This looks so good so far! I

This looks so good so far! I am excited and I will start saving up for a box that can handle running this stuff at full graphics soon.

On the hair: the "Polygonal" hair definitely has more of a cartoony, comic book look and feel. Of course, as you can see by my signature, I could be a smidge biased.

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Thank you for replying. I was actually asking about a complete model, with textures, eyes and hair but I can wait.
What kind of hair physics are you going to use? Particle or polygon?

Do you plan to use any kind of shaders for the game overall? Right now all of the videos are showing a much more photo realistic than I was expecting.

I'm all for realism, but we must avoid the uncanny valley. Secret World could have been so much more popular if only the characters didn't creep people out. I'd much rather see a polygon approach done well than hyperrealism done poorly.


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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

grouchyguy wrote:
Besides, if all those present in those videos are team leaders and/or managers of some sort then they are probably not producing that much code/assets compared to other members in the first place.

Actually...the leads tend to do a lot of heavy lifting. Remember, we are a (very) small volunteer company...

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I assume "particle hair"

I assume "particle hair" requires more computing power devoted to it than "polygon hair", is that right? If so, I'm guessing that polygon will be more friendly to slower computers and particle may be more realistic looking but more lag-inducing. I think either one could be done reasonably well (CoX had mostly unmoving hair, and either of these is an upgrade from that). Since games like this tend not to focus on the face a lot, the particle hair might not be worth the effort. I mean it does look better and more realistic to me, but at what cost? That's the question.

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I will be rooting for

I will be rooting for Particle Hair over Triangle Hair in this fight. And not just because I'm a TMBG fan. ^_^

But as Radiac mentioned above, it's the cost.

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

I will be rooting for Particle Hair over Triangle Hair in this fight. And not just because I'm a TMBG fan. ^_^
But as Radiac mentioned above, it's the cost.

*sigh* Everything right is wrong again....

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Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback brother.

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This looks rather nice. Liked

This looks rather nice. Liked that little dev video, was getting CoH vibes there.

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Actually...the leads tend to

Actually...the leads tend to do a lot of heavy lifting. Remember, we are a (very) small volunteer company...

I'm a little bit anxious with this sentence... VERY SMALL !
Can we expect a game with a good graphic level? I'm so zealous to see character creator and all the costumes...
All the updates sound pretty good to me but i'm worried.

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Everything we've seen seems

Everything we've seen seems very "prototype" and "proof of concept" so far, to me. Like, what we're seeing now is the "Mark 1" Iron Man armor, and the finished product will be more like the suit he wore in "The Avengers". But that's just my impression.

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Are any new technologies

Are any new technologies being taken into account like DirectX 12 or Vulkan? Or is too late a stage to implement them? I have no idea when an actual developer can access any new technologies or is aware of them compared to when I read about them on various tech sites.

And someday, not anytime soon, it would be interesting to see a diagram of the various modules developed separately and how they will fit into each other.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Man, I just started to watch

Man, I just started to watch the original 1990's animated X-Men series again and I tell you what it's just making me want this game to be out even more. I need my superhuman fix bad but just keep doing what you guys already are haha.

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Brutum wrote:
Brutum wrote:

Man, I just started to watch the original 1990's animated X-Men series again and I tell you what it's just making me want this game to be out even more. I need my superhuman fix bad but just keep doing what you guys already are haha.

Word.

Take your time and do it right, MWM--but for the love of Mike, hurry! :P

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Ysangard wrote:
Ysangard wrote:

Actually...the leads tend to do a lot of heavy lifting. Remember, we are a (very) small volunteer company...
I'm a little bit anxious with this sentence... VERY SMALL !
Can we expect a game with a good graphic level? I'm so zealous to see character creator and all the costumes...
All the updates sound pretty good to me but i'm worried.

This shouldn't worry you really.

In perspective: We are small compared to AAA companies. We are huge compared to some indies. We may even have more people than some AAA smaller games have thrown at them even. We may be all volunteer, but we do have some very talented people involved.

Also remember that we are using the latest, greatest in game engines (Unreal 4). We were one of the first MMOs to sign on for it actually. Just look around the forum and you will see that some of the discussion everyone is having regarding the avatar creator and the graphics choices we have at our disposal in general. Particle hair, cloth physics, morph points, etc. I personally expect to see something between CoX's variety/ease of use and something like Black Desert's detail for the creator.

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SavageFist wrote:
SavageFist wrote:

Are any new technologies being taken into account like DirectX 12 or Vulkan? Or is too late a stage to implement them? I have no idea when an actual developer can access any new technologies or is aware of them compared to when I read about them on various tech sites.

My feeling is that that is primarily up to Epic Games and their updates to Unreal Engine, since any direct coding by MWM seems to be kept at an absolute minimum.

As for how soon devs (in general) can access them, I would say at latest with their official stable launch, many can probably get in at the alpha and beta stages. As for if it's actually viable to do it asap then I would have to say "no" since most often it's just not widespread enough to warrant the costs, especially if they them self have to do effectively all of the implementation (instead of the engine devs).

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Thanks Revolution for you

Thanks Revolution for you response.
It makes me happy, you made my day.

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A lot of those graphics

A lot of those graphics effects will come later too. What we are seeing now if compared to anatomy is the bones only. They aren't even articulated into a skeletal system. All the muscle and brains and skin will come later, which is where all the latest and greatest effects can be applied. We'll start to see it with the character creator but that will only be the start. I think by using the Unreal Engine they will have better access to graphical advances in the future. That will allow them to push new technologies into the game quicker than what we saw in COH.

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Looking great as usual guys!

Looking great as usual guys! A bit of a shock, I didn't realise how good you had gotten the graphics to look. Cant's wait until the game is out!!!

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Seahawk25 wrote:
Seahawk25 wrote:

Looking great as usual guys! A bit of a shock, I didn't realise how good you had gotten the graphics to look. Cant's wait until the game is out!!!

Actually I believe the graphics quality there wasn't actually at it's peak. You'll see better I think.

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As a follow up to my previous

As a follow up to my previous reply this video just got passed around the internal "water cooler":
http://digg.com/video/unreal-engine-house
I doubt we'd go this far (yet) just because I doubt there are many client machines than can handle rendering this (yet) but it is nice to consider the possibilities.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Seahawk25 wrote:
Looking great as usual guys! A bit of a shock, I didn't realise how good you had gotten the graphics to look. Cant's wait until the game is out!!!
Actually I believe the graphics quality there wasn't actually at it's peak. You'll see better I think.

Sorry, I actually just meant the graphics looked better compared to how it looked in the last video, which surprised me because of the short amount of time for improvement between the two. But if their is better to come i am looking forward to it. Thanks!!

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

As a follow up to my previous reply this video just got passed around the internal "water cooler":http://digg.com/video/unreal-engine-house
I doubt we'd go this far (yet) just because I doubt there are many client machines than can handle rendering this (yet) but it is nice to consider the possibilities.

Ok, that's seriously cool but I'm not sure a superhero game will actually benefit from being that lifelike. Primarily I'm thinking about everything that doesn't actually exist in our world and the potential to go into the Uncanny Valley instead of making it look good.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

As a follow up to my previous reply this video just got passed around the internal "water cooler":http://digg.com/video/unreal-engine-house
I doubt we'd go this far (yet) just because I doubt there are many client machines than can handle rendering this (yet) but it is nice to consider the possibilities.

hehe.. i watched that video.. THEN I just had to ckick on this one: http://digg.com/video/f1-sidecar-racing
Talk about throwing your Weight around. ;)

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The Progress is going good

The Progress is going good Guys, Hope to see further advancements soon. I and My Superheroes are waiting for a World to live and save.

I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero

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I think there's a place for

I think there's a place for realism and that the level of realism that video showed is probably too high to be sustainable and/or deliverable by the devs in a timely fashion for this game. That said, I don't want this game to look like "Archie and Pals Play Superhero". I want the world to be about as real looking as CoX was for it's time, but updated and "good" given the better graphics specs we have now. By that I mean, it's okay to have some thematic stuff going on in different areas, like Croatoa and Dark Astoria, etc, but let's not make the game terribly "cartoonish" on the whole. I want as little "Howard the Duck" and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" as possible and thus a mostly realistic looking world. Again, it doesn't have to be THAT level of realism from the video, but I'd like to leave out the slapstick Bugs Bunny stuff as much as we can. Even Overwatch is a little too anime and cartoony for me, I'm more into the Destiny look. It doesn't have to be all dark and "Iron Age" where ever city is a filthy den of gritty corruption, but I would like it to be more "Marvel cinematic universe" looking than "Beetlejuice" by a long shot.

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I feel like the visual style

I feel like the visual style is the last really big piece of the puzzle that we haven't seen much about.

We have been given a good sense of the capabilities of the engine, the overall direction of gameplay development, the map and the lore, etc., but I don't feel like I have a clear sense of what the in-game visual style will be like except for some comments from the devs about wanting it to be not too cartoonish, not too realistic, and leaning towards classic comics style--which all sounds absolutely perfect, actually, but I'd love to see an example at some point.

And visual style is very important. I remember when CoH closed down and I started playing Champions, my wife took one look at the Champions art style--even with cell shading turned off--and said "this looks like a children's game!" And DCUO is only a little better with the oddly proportioned, bow-legged plastic doll look.

CoH's art style seems to have taken a page right out of "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way " (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5tU2PuRdU8), which makes sense and, not surprisingly, turned out freaking great! I really think CoH nailed it for a style that screamed Superhero and yet wasn't childishly cartoon, but was stylized enough to age well.

Anyway, I know it may be too soon, but I'm waiting with bated breath to see what visual style we're going to have. I personally hope it stays as close to "CoH 2.0" as the other aspects of the game have--similar look but updated to take advantage of both modern graphics and the visual flavor of Marvel and DC movies and shows. That'd be the safe way to go AND I think it'd look really good.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

CoH's art style seems to have taken a page right out of "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way " (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5tU2PuRdU8), which makes sense and, not surprisingly, turned out freaking great! I really think CoH nailed it for a style that screamed Superhero and yet wasn't childishly cartoon, but was stylized enough to age well.

Thanks for that. What a great video. So cheesy, but that kinda makes it even better. Start watching at 15:30 where they discuss the figure. Very good stuff.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

CoH's art style seems to have taken a page right out of "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way " (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5tU2PuRdU8), which makes sense and, not surprisingly, turned out freaking great! I really think CoH nailed it for a style that screamed Superhero and yet wasn't childishly cartoon, but was stylized enough to age well.

One thing I always held a bit of an issue with in CoH was that it simply couldn't capture a non-heroic individual. Reporters with the proportions of superman, and the inability to go below a certain bust size (which already seems to have been covered) along with the general 'heroic' stance and general musculature made it so that it was difficult to make anybody that looked at all normal.

A few times I wanted to make a character that was magically very powerful but kinda wimpy physically, or could make robots or gadgets or something but was physically quite weak, but I couldn't manage it properly without something feeling off.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

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Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

A few times I wanted to make a character that was magically very powerful but kinda wimpy physically, or could make robots or gadgets or something but was physically quite weak, but I couldn't manage it properly without something feeling off.

I know what you mean, I had that problem sometimes too in CoH. But from what they've shown of the sliders, I don't think there will be too much we can't pull off no matter what the base build. So that's awesome :).

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Skinny people can be drawn

Skinny people can be drawn heroic too. I feel you.

Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop comes to mind, http://roguevincent.deviantart.com/art/Cowboy-Bebop-Spike-Spiegel-1-422701455

but then so does the imprisoned superman in the alternate earth of Justice League Flashpoint. http://comicbook.com/blog/2011/07/07/supermans-wildest-new-costume-yet/


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I think there's a place for realism and that the level of realism that video showed is probably too high to be sustainable and/or deliverable by the devs in a timely fashion for this game. That said, I don't want this game to look like "Archie and Pals Play Superhero". I want the world to be about as real looking as CoX was for it's time, but updated and "good" given the better graphics specs we have now. By that I mean, it's okay to have some thematic stuff going on in different areas, like Croatoa and Dark Astoria, etc, but let's not make the game terribly "cartoonish" on the whole.

Yeah - it's difficult to describe something as subjective as the look of a game isn't it? I agree - something like Champions, TF2 and Overwatch is very much on the "cartoony" side - something that I'd want to avoid in CoT (though it's perfectly fine in their own games and can sometimes help with it's longevity - at least graphically).

Something along the lines of CoH, and maybe even STO - not hyper-realistic but more along the lines of "plausible reality" - it looks like the real world but with a LITTLE "cartooniness(?)" added so the elements of the fantastic (often found in comics and sci-fi) don't look too out of place. With all the GFX goodies currently available to give it that extra polish of course. I believe this is what the devs are aiming for - at least I'm pretty sure this is what they have briefly described in the past.