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Discuss: Moguls and Landmarks: Revisiting Alexandria

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JWBullfrog
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Discuss: Moguls and Landmarks: Revisiting Alexandria

If you haven't already, you can read the original post here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/moguls-and-landmarks-revisiting-alexandria

Once again, thanks to Nathan, and Carol for their hard work, and to all our Mogul Backers for their inspiration.

And, as an additional note, the PR/Update team is going to be taking a little time off. We'll be putting aside our regularly scheduled updates for the next two weeks to give everyone a chance to catch their breath, enjoy the Passover/Easter holidays, and to give some time for other ideas to come together.

We will still be around for questions, and just in case something SHINY pops up. Enjoy your holidays, we'll see you again in a few weeks.

-JWB

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Nice! Thanks for the update :

Nice! Thanks for the update :)

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I'm really starting to love

I'm really starting to love the eclectic and varied architecture. Sometimes I boggle at a building, but I'm no architect, so I clearly can't speak for their stability, Ephesus University Harlan Law Center looks both amazing and scary, that entire campus looks amazing! It really makes the city feel like it's existed through the eras and it's architecture is a mark of it's ages. Great job, even the buildings I don't care for make the city feel like it's a living thing.

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LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

I'm really starting to love the eclectic and varied architecture. Sometimes I boggle at a building, but I'm no architect, so I clearly can't speak for their stability, Ephesus University Harlan Law Center looks both amazing and scary, that entire campus looks amazing! It really makes the city feel like it's existed through the eras and it's architecture is a mark of it's ages. Great job, even the buildings I don't care for make the city feel like it's a living thing.

I feel the same way!

I'm also really looking forward to standing in front of the Phoenix Statue for the first time!!

"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."

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Thanks again for the sneak

Thanks again for the sneak-peek of the Moguls. As always looking forward to seeing how it all comes together in-game. :)

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As always, I love it !

As always, I love it !
Thanks Missing Worlds Media

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Very nice work! I especially

Very nice work! I especially like that Phoenix though! Very nice!

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I like the FFM. ^_^

I like the FFM. ^_^

I hope we have more architecture coming soon!

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Gotta say, the last four

Gotta say, the last four updates have been top notch. Great work, keep it up!

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The fire/flame motif for the

The fire/flame motif for the Fire Department made me think of Roxanne

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The Phoenix statue is pretty

The Phoenix statue is pretty awesome!!

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Agreed, awesome, scary, awe

Agreed, awesome, scary, awe inspiring architecture!
Agreed: Phoenix Statue had some love poured into it, great job.

Just one question: Mausoleum...zombies?

Also, Agreed: Great Updates!

You guys enjoy your break as well, looking foreard to whatever comes next!

Meh. Bah!

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That Phoenix is really

That Phoenix is really awesome.

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I love d the update!

I love d the update!
Wouldn't have minded a bit more text under the building, but is still great as is now.

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Overall fave :) Love me some

Overall fave :) Love me some greco-roman!

I love the texture on the globe, I hope the final in-game texture is similar to this blue marble :)


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I've not been with the

I've not been with the Phoenix Statue with its current textures, or the similarly updated city hall, but I've walked around both in earlier form. They've come a long ways.

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I'm still of the opinion that

I'm still of the opinion that the "Phoenix Egg" ought to not be a solid ball (of stone?) as depicted here.

I honestly think that a superior choice would have been to take the "cage" (or net) of mesh around a Fabergé egg and "delete" the solid egg inside of the cage/mesh and then use the cage/mesh to provide the "egg" defining shape and let the "egg" be hollow inside the cage/mesh. Build the cage/mesh out of 304 stainless steel (to cut down on maintenance needs) and provide a silvery contrast to the bronze color of the Phoenix.

Note that this would provide more of a challenge to reaching the top of the egg for PCs than a solid ball egg would (mind the steps!), while also potentially being more artistic in design ... especially if the intersections of the mesh for the egg have lights that turn on at night.
Also, with a "hollow egg" design like this, you could potentially have elevator tracks that run around the inside of the egg on the girders to reach a (tourist trap) observation lounge at the top of the egg. That way, part of the cost(s) of maintaining the statue/plaza are supplied by tourist dollars.

The Phoenix (bird) itself would be fine for this and wouldn't need to change at all.
The only downside I can think of if such a change were to be implemented is the increase in the number of polygons used for the entire structure, which depending on detail levels might be rather high.


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Actually the statue isn't

Actually the statue isn't that large. I think I recall it being maybe 10-20 feet tall at best. It's been a while though and my memory is a bit hazy.

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I strongly disagree with the

I strongly disagree with the suggestion that the globe be replaced with an egg.


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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Actually the statue isn't that large. I think I recall it being maybe 10-20 feet tall at best. It's been a while though and my memory is a bit hazy.

Wait ... so the Phoenix isn't the size of Atlas Statue in Atlas Park?
You mean it isn't the dominant feature of Phoenix Plaza?


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The globe that the Phoenix is

The globe that the Phoenix is carrying is supposed to be an homage of our "lost home".

So, No to the egg idea.

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I don't think that the intent

I don't think that the intent was to change the shape, but make it a wiremesh of the globe instead of a big ball?

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LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

I don't think that the intent was to change the shape, but make it a wiremesh of the globe instead of a big ball?


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

I don't think that the intent was to change the shape, but make it a wiremesh of the globe instead of a big ball?

I'm stealing this response.

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Eh, not a fan of a wiremesh

Eh, not a fan of a wiremesh either, but I have a soft spot for stone ;p


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Eh, not a fan of a wiremesh either, but I have a soft spot for stone ;p

I can see the pull of either, I like the idea of the wireframe with the continent over it? In my mind it gives the impression of fragility and makes the world something that feels like it needs protecting. Though, these are pre alpha, sooo, things change.

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LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

I don't think that the intent was to change the shape, but make it a wiremesh of the globe instead of a big ball?

So when you guys are saying "wiremesh" are you talking more like the World's Fair Unisphere:

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Um, shouldn't the Phoenix be

Um, shouldn't the Phoenix be 'on fire', or something? Maybe the fire is inside the globe? So, metaphorically 'protect/support the light/fire of the world'?

Protecting the world is certainly good, and the Phoenix is 'reborn' to do it. In fact, wasn't there an element in the myth of re-vitalizing the whole 'world', through the Phoenix's cycle of rebirth?

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Um, shouldn't the Phoenix be 'on fire', or something? Maybe the fire is inside the globe? So, metaphorically 'protect/support the light/fire of the world'?

Protecting the world is certainly good, and the Phoenix is 'reborn' to do it. In fact, wasn't there an element in the myth of re-vitalizing the whole 'world', through the Phoenix's cycle of rebirth?

Be Well!
Fireheart

It doesn't look flamy to you? I mean, I can get behind a literal torch, but I appreciate the artistic fire. It might be too complicated or too busy to make it a Unisphere-like(Thank you for the name, Lothic) globe and fire.

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I much prefer the phoenix's

I like the phoenix's solid stone sphere just as it's pictured. I like it a lot.

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As to the size I said my

As to the size I said my memory is a bit hazy. It's been a couple of years since I walked around the plaza.

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Well, certainly, the Phoenix

Well, certainly, the Phoenix statue appears made of fire, or feathers, or both. Very artistic and well done. And I expect that a City which has experienced big fires would not want any large sources of live flame sitting around where accidents might happen. And, even a natural-gas torch doesn't burn completely clean, so smog might be an issue.

But it might be nifty and elementally exciting to make a sculpture out of Fire... or on fire... or with fire. Maybe use a flickering laser-light-show at night, to mimic more fieriness...

Be Well!
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I like the blue marble motif.

I like the blue marble motif. It's very Apollo/Sagan-esque.

Lets get a little interpretive. There is a LOT going on with this piece. The pheonix has a couple meanings. To the citizens of Titan City it represents their spirit their recovery from fires and hurricanes. If you wanted to commercialize and belittle it, you'd call that spirit "Titan Strong" and sell it on little yellow silicone bracelets. Getting a bit more meta it represents this community. It represents us sticking together even through we were washed out of our home and setting a new fire.

The pheonix is carrying this massive blue marble on it's back. Which as I stated before is our blue marble. For the citizens that can mean a lot of things. For some it could mean that they are the ones responsible for protecting that marble, to carry out the duty of saving the world from all harm, and for others it could represent their leading the world to new scientific breakthroughs and discovery. For our community it is our digital world. A representation of a make believe home that held our dreams and fantasies gave them a place and kept them warm.

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City of Heroes already had a

City of Heroes already had a framework sphere, a creative variation away from lat-long concept, in Cap au Diable.

http://www.cityofheroes.ca/game_info/geography/the_zones_of_the_rogue_isles_c.html (Image 2)

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Airhead wrote:
Airhead wrote:

City of Heroes already had a framework sphere, a creative variation away from lat-long concept, in Cap au Diable.

http://www.cityofheroes.ca/game_info/geography/the_zones_of_the_rogue_isles_c.html (Image 2)

As did Champions Online, but I can't find an image. The Perk was called "Journey to the Center of the Earth." ^_^

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

But it might be nifty and elementally exciting to make a sculpture out of Fire... or on fire... or with fire. Maybe use a flickering laser-light-show at night, to mimic more fieriness...

Fireheart

In a world with magic you could have a very cool sculpture of literal fire. Like permanent firebending :)


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

In a world with magic you could have a very cool sculpture of literal fire. Like permanent firebending :)

In a world with "Sufficiently Advanced Technology," it could be Holographic. Or Plasma. Still, that IS a pretty cool statue.

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Little Tip: Pho-En-Ix. I

Little Tip: Pho-En-Ix. I have to remind myself every time.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Little Tip: Pho-En-Ix. I have to remind myself every time.

Be Well!
Fireheart

That's way better then my "PhEE-Oh-Nix" mnemonic :p


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I wrote a long, involved

I wrote a long, involved character backstory involving 'The Phoenix' (myth, not statue), so I had to develop a way to spell it correctly since my spell-checker was gimpy. Now, I use Grammarly, which still gets it wrong, when I'm working with 'Exotic' subjects. It gets panicky when I start writing Old Norse, correctly.

Be Well!
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Makes me think of:
Nose Boop OF DOOM!

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Fireheart

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One aspect of the Phoenix

One aspect of the Phoenix statue that will be more clear in the game with additional light and texture effects is that the statue is a fountain and water will be surrounding the ball. It will look like those fountains with a large marble ball floating on water. This is why the look is solid marble in the picture.

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Red_Warlock wrote:
Red_Warlock wrote:

One aspect of the Phoenix statue that will be more clear in the game with additional light and texture effects is that the statue is a fountain and water will be surrounding the ball. It will look like those fountains with a large marble ball floating on water. This is why the look is solid marble in the picture.

Love it!


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I can verify the fountain.

I can verify the fountain.

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Ohhh! Kugel Fountain?
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LeadWanderer wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

Ohhh!

Kugel Fountain?

I can't say with absolute certainty if that's correct but I have a vague recollection that that might be the case. Would explain the smaller size of the globe wouldn't it? :D

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:
LeadWanderer wrote:

Ohhh!

Kugel Fountain?

I can't say with absolute certainty if that's correct but I have a vague recollection that that might be the case. Would explain the smaller size of the globe wouldn't it? :D

It would, we have one in my hometown, so I like it more now, kind of brings an unintentional sense of home. They're all over the world though. Very cool.

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If it's a Kugel Fountain then

If it's a Kugel Fountain then the ball (and statue) won't be anywhere near as large (or landscape dominating) as Atlas Statue in Atlas Park, simply because it "can't" be that big and still function as a Kugel Fountain. You'd need a water pumping system capable of generating more water pressure than the total weight of the egg/stone being floated upon it, if only to be able to successfully "start" the fountain from a dry/at rest state. Kind of hard to do that with a stone ball that weighs in at tens or hundreds of thousands of tons (let alone a million+ tons) of solid polished round rock. Definitely a situation where the Square Cube Law combined with (municipal) economics argues in favor of a smaller installation than a grand multi-story high one.


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Yeah but like....magic :p

Yeah but like....magic :p


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Yes, Kugel is the concept. No

Yes, Kugel is the concept. No, it won't be small. And yes, Titan City has not only magic, but super technology that could make a large fountain like this work.

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With the power of love,

With the power of love, everything's possible!

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Red_Warlock wrote:
Red_Warlock wrote:

Yes, Kugel is the concept. No, it won't be small. And yes, Titan City has not only magic, but super technology that could make a large fountain like this work.

lol, yas


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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

As to the size I said my memory is a bit hazy. It's been a couple of years since I walked around the plaza.

I thought I remembered some concept drawings that showed very tiny people standing around a massive statue, but when I just re-watched the first Independence Day video, the camera perspective (presumably from the POV of a walking PC) seemed more in line with 20 feet or so ... certainly far smaller than Atlas.

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Riptide wrote:
Riptide wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

As to the size I said my memory is a bit hazy. It's been a couple of years since I walked around the plaza.

I thought I remembered some concept drawings that showed very tiny people standing around a massive statue, but when I just re-watched the first Independence Day video, the camera perspective (presumably from the POV of a walking PC) seemed more in line with 20 feet or so ... certainly far smaller than Atlas.

The plaza modeling has evolved since that video to look more like the concept you saw earlier. The Phoenix is larger now.

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Secretly replaces the stone

Secretly replaces the stone 'egg' with Balsa-wood.
Let's see if anyone notices?

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Fireheart

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Red_Warlock wrote:
Red_Warlock wrote:
Riptide wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

As to the size I said my memory is a bit hazy. It's been a couple of years since I walked around the plaza.

I thought I remembered some concept drawings that showed very tiny people standing around a massive statue, but when I just re-watched the first Independence Day video, the camera perspective (presumably from the POV of a walking PC) seemed more in line with 20 feet or so ... certainly far smaller than Atlas.

The plaza modeling has evolved since that video to look more like the concept you saw earlier. The Phoenix is larger now.

That's good to know.
I like the idea of it being a massive centerpiece to the world.

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I never liked the idea of
Red_Warlock wrote:

Yes, Kugel is the concept. No, it won't be small. And yes, Titan City has not only magic, but super technology that could make a large fountain like this work.

I never liked the idea of magic or super-science becoming so common that it's used for mundane purposes--at least in regards to a superhero MMORPG. Because then, well, it's just status quo. So it's not that magic or super-science is rare and special, it's just that magic and super-science are another mundane, everyday aspect of life. Making it by definition not "super".

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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I agree. It's why I wince at

I agree. It's why I wince at futuristic successors: they're technologically elevated to a plane where baseline humans are almost "super" compared to regular people today.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

I agree. It's why I wince at futuristic successors: they're technologically elevated to a plane where baseline humans are almost "super" compared to regular people today.

I honestly believe this is one reason why Star Trek Voyager is among my least favorite Star Trek series. Turns out I actually used to consider it the -worst- series until Star Trek Discovery decided to steal that "honor" for itself. Anyway as far as Voyager goes it's set so far "into the future" of the Star Trek universe that it always seemed like every time there was a serious problem all they had to do was to use some semi-magical bit of "super-hyper-fancy" tech to save them.

Basically the show's writers relied way, way too much on "fantastical technobabble" solutions instead of the characters using their brains or diplomacy or anything else. Back in Kirk's/Picard's time the shows were more dynamic and the "resolution" to the week's story could come from among any type of clever way to deal with things. It just seemed like EVERY Voyager episode was eventually resolved by a "trans-photonic metaphasic recombinator" or whatever the technobabble word of the week was.

I don't hate sci-fi technobabble. I just hate when it's used as a crutch for every... single... episode of a given show.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I think I was more suggesting

I think I was more suggesting that a healthy dose of the MST 3K Mantra might be in effect.

read all about it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra

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Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

I think I was more suggesting that a healthy dose of the MST 3K Mantra might be in effect.

read all about it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra

While that certainly is part of suspension of disbelieve and is needed to actually enjoy the game (or any other media) it only goes so far before we can't suspend our disbelieve anymore. I think the notion was more that if the technological or magical "level"/artifacts I am using can be bought by anyone at the corner store then what is it that elevates me to "super" status?

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I'm thinking that use of

I'm thinking that use of magic and/or super technology in the construction and/or operation of one of the most visible pieces of art in the city hardly constitutes being able to buy superpowers at the corners store.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

I think I was more suggesting that a healthy dose of the MST 3K Mantra might be in effect.

read all about it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra

wut

An MST3K reference! Nice! I'm also a big RiffTrax fan.