Announcements

Check out our latest update: https://cityoftitans.com/content/unreal-engine-5-4-3-2-1-ignition

Get the latest Patch now! The MacOS Client Launcher is Now available in the store! If you've already donated $50 or more, you'll find the Mac Launcher on your rewards page. https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/

Join the conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2

Discuss: Lift Off - Fly Today in Titan City

67 posts / 0 new
Last post
Red Warlock
Red Warlock's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 32 sec ago
Developerkickstarter
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 22:09
Discuss: Lift Off - Fly Today in Titan City

Read the original update here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/lift-fly-today-titan-city

Feel free to comment on the update below.

Environmental Artist, PR Editor

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
I spent a bit of time with

I spent a bit of time with the new update, specifically testing the flight capability with the female model (in case that makes a difference). I'll definitely say it's a good start.

There are a few things to mention right out of the gate:

1) The stationary hover animation looks pretty good. The only obvious problem is that the left foot is badly clipping through the right knee and right calf. The left leg just needs to be angled out a bit to prevent that.

2) The current "keybinding" (for lack of a better term) seems a bit clunky, especially when switching between "fly mode" and "hover mode". It seems like the only way to switch between the two modes is to come to a dead stop. It should be possible to switch back and forth while still moving. Also even when hovering at a dead stop it takes multiple tries at the "shift+f" key chord to make it actually switch to fly mode. Basically the key commands for these things are not fluid and thus makes it hard to control.

3) Speaking of hard to control the mouse sensitivity is now currently way, way too sensitive and the controls to adjust those settings do not seem to work. For example I can move my mouse a few millimeters to the right and my character starts spinning 180 degrees or more. It's very nearly uncontrollable at this point. To be absolutely clear my mouse works perfectly well outside the game (and while playing other games) so the wonky sensitivity appears to be an issue with this build.

Like I said this is definitely a good start. Keep up the good work.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 days ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
I can hover (some nice

I can hover (some nice touches with the movement there) but I can't fly. Neither Shift key does anything, and I reset all bindings to the default.

Come to think of it, didn't LShift used to make a walking character run? It's not doing that either now.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Yeah, the keybinding stuff

Yeah, the keybinding stuff for flight needs to be improved, it's basically hard-wired and somewhat incomplete (the shift key behavior isn't quite what it should be, as you note).

Not sure what's going on with the mouse sensitivity. A lot of code around player controls was changed in the addition of flight, and I suspect the linkage to the mouse sensitivity got broken. I found it tolerable, but a bit twitchy on my machine. I've seen issues on the Mac where the mouse sensitivity seems to vary with the machine's frame rate, it might be helpful to try changing the frame rate lock setting to a lower frame rate and see if that affects what you're seeing. On the Mac, I had to add some special code to rescale mouse movements based on frame rate, but it didn't seem to be needed on Windows.

We wanted to get the flight and UI changes in the release out to people for testing and feedback, so I didn't chase down non-critical problems or even get to do the testing I usually do before releasing a new version. So I expected a lot of rough edges due to all the new code. You can't see it yet, but a bunch of combat infrastructure stuff has also been added to the character and character control system. I expect we'll be polishing things over the next couple releases.

Feedback is definitely welcome.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I can hover (some nice touches with the movement there) but I can't fly. Neither Shift key does anything, and I reset all bindings to the default.

Come to think of it, didn't LShift used to make a walking character run? It's not doing that either now.

The shift key code has changed, and no longer affects ground movement. When flying, the left shift *toggles* fast flight, and it will only turn on if you're not actually moving. Don't hold the key down like we are used to from the prior releases.

When moving fast, tapping LShift will toggle back to the slow flight (hover) mode. The code there was added recently and needs cleanup. None of the new keybindings goes through the key binding system set by the options menu, it's all hardwired at the moment. It will get fixed up for next release, I hope. I'd like to get a bug fix update out in the next few weeks, but I don't know if the keybinding stuff will make it. It can be a little tricky to make it work with the options settings correctly.

Flight is also a little tricky to figure out at first; you go where the camera is pointing, so the trick I use is to hold down the W key to move forward and steer with the mouse, which is basically what I've been doing on the ground in earlier versions.

Tech Team

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

Not sure what's going on with the mouse sensitivity. A lot of code around player controls was changed in the addition of flight, and I suspect the linkage to the mouse sensitivity got broken. I found it tolerable, but a bit twitchy on my machine. I've seen issues on the Mac where the mouse sensitivity seems to vary with the machine's frame rate, it might be helpful to try changing the frame rate lock setting to a lower frame rate and see if that affects what you're seeing. On the Mac, I had to add some special code to rescale mouse movements based on frame rate, but it didn't seem to be needed on Windows.

Well a telling symptom is that the mouse X/Y sensitivity controls don't seem to be doing anything on my computer. The sensitivity seems equally "twitchy" whether you set the slider all the way to the left or right. The Windows computer I'm using is relatively high-end (with a couple month old Nvidia RTX3060 with all graphics settings maxed) so I might be a victim of having more GPU horsepower than you're currently testing for. Regardless a player should be able to use your provided sensitivity sliders to compensate no matter how fast or slow their computer is.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 days ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

The shift key code has changed, and no longer affects ground movement. When flying, the left shift *toggles* fast flight, and it will only turn on if you're not actually moving. Don't hold the key down like we are used to from the prior releases.

When moving fast, tapping LShift will toggle back to the slow flight (hover) mode. The code there was added recently and needs cleanup. None of the new keybindings goes through the key binding system set by the options menu, it's all hardwired at the moment. It will get fixed up for next release, I hope. I'd like to get a bug fix update out in the next few weeks, but I don't know if the keybinding stuff will make it. It can be a little tricky to make it work with the options settings correctly.

Just to check, this means there's no way to run now? Understandable in a demo/alpha build if that's the case; no biggie.

Yep, I am trying to use LShift as a toggle and pressing it while not moving. I've tried it while hovering (which I assume is what we're meant to do) and while on the ground, and it doesn't do anything in either case.

P.S. I have no issues with the mouse sensitivity -- that's working fine for me.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

P.S. I have no issues with the mouse sensitivity -- that's working fine for me.

Yeah I can't really explain my mouse situation related to this new build. I've now tried playing 4 other games in the last hour or so just to double-check and I'm having no problem sensitivity-wise except with this new CoT build. I'm just using a standard logitech mouse - nothing special about it.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 days ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Re not being able to fly, I

Re not being able to fly, I looked up an old thread where we discussed some keybind issues, deleted both Input and GameUserSettings, allowing the game to re-create those, and it's still not working. :-(

Spurn all ye kindle.

Red Warlock
Red Warlock's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 32 sec ago
Developerkickstarter
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 22:09
Hey everyone,

Hey everyone,

Just a quick note about the mouse sensitivity and sprint / super jump.

First, the mouse sensitivity can be adjusted, and so this is exactly why we start out with testing like this to see what people like and what people think needs some adjustment. We can definitely work on that. It will be good to hear what people's feelings are overall about the sensitivity. Some players might like a little more or a little less, so keep sharing with us.

About sprint and super jump, those are being worked on as super powers that are going to come back with better features than the form they had been in, so super speed and super jump will be back but improved...

Hope everyone is enjoying testing out flight!

-Red

Environmental Artist, PR Editor

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Well a telling symptom is that the mouse X/Y sensitivity controls don't seem to be doing anything on my computer. The sensitivity seems equally "twitchy" whether you set the slider all the way to the left or right. The Windows computer I'm using is relatively high-end (with a couple month old Nvidia RTX3060 with all graphics settings maxed) so I might be a victim of having more GPU horsepower than you're currently testing for. Regardless a player should be able to use your provided sensitivity sliders to compensate no matter how fast or slow their computer is.

The problem is that mouse sensitivity isn't something that's implemented automatically for us by Unreal. Those options settings are not Unreal settings, they're game-specific settings, and they took extra code that I had to add to the player controller object a release or two ago. Same for Y-axis inversion. That player controller got a major workover when the flight stuff was added, and I think the sensitivity and Y inversion stuff just got lost in the process somehow. I need to look over the changes and put it back.

So in any case, the fact that the settings doesn't work doesn't tell my *why* things are so twitchy *now*. Did you have the sensitivity turned way down in the last release or two? We didn't even have it before that. If not, then something else is going on that I need to figure out. I assume you haven't changed machines recently.

Tech Team

amievil
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 3 hours ago
Developer
Joined: 10/21/2013 - 12:53
I will see if I can get a way

I will see if I can get a way for it to be adjusted by you guys instead of being hard coded out sooner rather than later.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

RavenPhantomX
RavenPhantomX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 17 hours ago
Joined: 04/23/2017 - 09:01
Well, time to bonk our heads

Well, time to bonk our heads while we learn how to fly properly. So that character creator it's getting stronger, I'm already planning lots of combinations.

As a Hero: Fhantom Raven, the Ghost from Heaven (League of Lights)
As a Villain: Greem Reaper, Toxic Wanderer (Empire of Thorns)
...............................................................

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 days ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Just had a thought about why

Just had a thought about why no flying for me: when the Left Shift key is pressed on a UK keyboard (even though it's set to US format), does that produce a different code from that produced by a native US keyboard?

Spurn all ye kindle.

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
I did manage to get the

I did manage to get the flight going, although it was a bit tricky. It seemed to have something to do with camera angle and/or distance (the view occasionally switched to put my character on the left side of the screen and at one point seemed to essentially be stuck there). Mostly the character hovered but suddenly the full speed flight would kick in. The bob during flight is a little odd, especially since the character's ankles or feet pass through each other.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

slagger
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 05/22/2021 - 18:41
Iathor][quote=Cinnder wrote:
Iathor][quote=Cinnder wrote:

Flight is also a little tricky to figure out at first; you go where the camera is pointing, so the trick I use is to hold down the W key to move forward and steer with the mouse, which is basically what I've been doing on the ground in earlier versions.

i hope that this i something that we will be able to change. you cannot look around and fly straight at the same time with this set up. i prefer "steering" with the arrow keys and moving the camera with the mouse

Kalideus
Kalideus's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 2 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 02/03/2014 - 15:54
Regarding mouse sensitivity,

Regarding mouse sensitivity, some mice are able to be manually changed on the fly. I have two different brands that have two buttons under the mouse wheel. Top one is for more sensitivity and bottom is less. That may help some of you.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
slagger wrote:
slagger wrote:

i hope that this i something that we will be able to change. you cannot look around and fly straight at the same time with this set up. i prefer "steering" with the arrow keys and moving the camera with the mouse

This concerns me as well. At the very least, we should be able to look down at landmarks for navigational purposes without having to repeatedly rise and dip or stop to look down.

I understand the simplicity of steering by camera, so maybe if the game wants to turn flying into a flight simulator they should give us the ability to look left right up and down with keybinds the way a flight simulator would. But then, how many dedicated keybinds would we need just to fly?

Like you, I think I'd prefer [W]&[S] (of WASD, the lingua franca of the gaming world) for forward and back, with [A]&[D] serving to strafe left and right.* This frees up the left and right mouse buttons to perform camera looks and directional changes, respectively. Rising would still be [space] and descending would need a dedicated keybind. This is the same configuration as just about every other game with flying and swimming, so it should be intuitive for the players. So that's just one dedicated keybind in addition to the keybind to activate flight. When I say this I'm assuming the same keybind used to sprint on land would be used for fast flight while flying, and the same keybind used to walk on land could serve to hover while flying. This also assumes three possible airspeeds: hover, fly and fast fly. Obviously if hover is as fast as flyers can go, then walking would not make them go any slower.

* Feel free to substitute arrow keys or any other keys you prefer if it helps you understand better. I use a Razor Nostromo's thumbstick emulating the arrow keys for my personal preference.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Well a telling symptom is that the mouse X/Y sensitivity controls don't seem to be doing anything on my computer. The sensitivity seems equally "twitchy" whether you set the slider all the way to the left or right. The Windows computer I'm using is relatively high-end (with a couple month old Nvidia RTX3060 with all graphics settings maxed) so I might be a victim of having more GPU horsepower than you're currently testing for. Regardless a player should be able to use your provided sensitivity sliders to compensate no matter how fast or slow their computer is.

The problem is that mouse sensitivity isn't something that's implemented automatically for us by Unreal. Those options settings are not Unreal settings, they're game-specific settings, and they took extra code that I had to add to the player controller object a release or two ago. Same for Y-axis inversion. That player controller got a major workover when the flight stuff was added, and I think the sensitivity and Y inversion stuff just got lost in the process somehow. I need to look over the changes and put it back.

So in any case, the fact that the settings doesn't work doesn't tell my *why* things are so twitchy *now*. Did you have the sensitivity turned way down in the last release or two? We didn't even have it before that. If not, then something else is going on that I need to figure out. I assume you haven't changed machines recently.

To add more info I've tried out every public release of the game to date and this release was the first one where I noticed the extreme mouse sensitivity problem. I don't think I ever had to mess around with adjusting it before - the "default settings" were previously reasonable for me. As I also mentioned in another post I can play other games without problems and without changing any sensitivity options.

I'll make the point again that the "sensitivity option sliders" in this CoT build don't appear to be affecting the sensitivity at all. Basically I would characterize what I'm seeing is that the game is pegged to the "maximum sensitivity level possible" without any way to change it.

Kalideus wrote:

Regarding mouse sensitivity, some mice are able to be manually changed on the fly. I have two different brands that have two buttons under the mouse wheel. Top one is for more sensitivity and bottom is less. That may help some of you.

My mouse can do that. But I would point out that even if that did help in this specific case that there is still something technically "wrong" with this game's sensitivity settings based on the simple notion that NOTHING else I run program-wise ever requires me to tinker with those controls to get it to work. The default range of sensitivity of CoT should be able to work like anything else and not be an "outlier" requiring radically different control settings.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

slagger
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 05/22/2021 - 18:41
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
slagger wrote:

i hope that this i something that we will be able to change. you cannot look around and fly straight at the same time with this set up. i prefer "steering" with the arrow keys and moving the camera with the mouse

This concerns me as well. At the very least, we should be able to look down at landmarks for navigational purposes without having to repeatedly rise and dip or stop to look down.

I understand the simplicity of steering by camera, so maybe if the game wants to turn flying into a flight simulator, they should give us the ability to look left right up and down with keybinds. But then, how many dedicated keybinds would we need just to fly?

Like you, I think I'd prefer [W]&[S] (of WASD, the lingua franca of the gaming world) for forward and back, with [A]&[D] serving to strafe left and right.* This frees up the left and right mouse buttons to perform camera looks and directional changes, respectively. Rising would still be [space] and descending would need a dedicated keybind. This is the same configuration as just about every other game with flying and swimming, so it should be intuitive for the players. So that's just one dedicated keybind in addition to the keybind to activate flight. When I say this I'm assuming the same keybind used to sprint on land would be used for fast flight while flying, and the same keybind used to walk on land could serve to hover while flying. This also assumes three possible airspeeds: hover, fly and fast fly. Obviously if hover is as fast as flyers can go, then walking would not make them go any slower.

* Feel free to substitute arrow keys or any other keys you prefer if it helps you understand better. I use a Razor Nostromo's thumbstick emulating the arrow keys for my personal preference.

yes to all. i use the orbweaver and cannot play without it any more. being able to map the keys to whatever i want for so many different games is nice. no worries about the game not letting me change and all

could even make it so that pushing both mouse buttons gives the mouse control flight

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
slagger wrote:
slagger wrote:

could even make it so that pushing both mouse buttons gives the mouse control flight

That's a good suggestion. In most games, holding the left and right mouse buttons simultaneously does result in forward movement. Accordingly, as you suggest, holding both buttons while flying would essentially be the mouse-controlled flight we are seeing now. A tip of my hat to you.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
slagger wrote:

could even make it so that pushing both mouse buttons gives the mouse control flight

That's a good suggestion. In most games, holding the left and right mouse buttons simultaneously does result in forward movement. Accordingly, as you suggest, holding both buttons while flying would essentially be the mouse-controlled flight we are seeing now. A tip of my hat to you.

Back when I played TOG I developed a relatively complex set of nested keybind files that allowed me to Hover, Fly and Group Fly while taking care of turning on/off all the other interrelated travel powers, including Walk. It's actually been years since I looked at these but below are some examples.

The following is the subset of my main keybind file related to the various flight and 'sprint' travel powers:

f "powexec_toggleon Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$bind_load_file_silent C:\Games\CityOfHeroes\Binds\FlySetNinjaRun.txt"
ralt+f "powexec_name Group Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$bind_load_file_silent C:\Games\CityOfHeroes\Binds\FlySetNinjaRun.txt"
g "powexec_name Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$powexec_toggleoff Magic Carpet"
ralt+g "powexec_name Prestige Power Slide"
h "powexec_toggleon Hover$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$bind_load_file_silent C:\Games\CityOfHeroes\Binds\FlySetNinjaRun.txt"

The following is the full contents of the FlySetNinjaRun.txt file:

f "powexec_name Hover$$powexec_name Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Group Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board"
g "powexec_toggleoff Hover$$powexec_toggleoff Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Group Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$bind_load_file_silent C:\Games\CityOfHeroes\Binds\FlyResetNinjaRun.txt"
h "powexec_name Fly$$powexec_name Hover$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Group Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board"

The following is the full contents of the FlyResetNinjaRun.txt file:

f "powexec_toggleon Fly$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$bind_load_file_silent C:\Games\CityOfHeroes\Binds\FlySetNinjaRun.txt"
g "powexec_name Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board"
h "powexec_toggleon Hover$$powexec_toggleoff Walk$$powexec_toggleoff Ninja Run$$powexec_toggleoff Rocket Board$$bind_load_file_silent C:\Games\CityOfHeroes\Binds\FlySetNinjaRun.txt"

Basically these keybinds would "redefine" several keys on the fly (no pun intended) based on whether I was Flying, Hovering or Running. This allowed me to smoothly transition between multiple travel powers (flying or ground based) regardless with just a few dynamically redefined keyboard keys (in this case f, g and h). These keybinds worked very well for years and were used on several dozen different characters.

The main reason I'm mentioning this is that I'm actually worried that if we're forced to accept a "predefined" set of key commands by the Unreal Engine then by default there will be a certain subset of the playerbase who will not like the key definitions no matter what they are. When the topic of keybinding in CoT has come up in the past we've been told that "it'll be complicated" and that they're considering holding off on implementing it until perhaps even after launch. I know the MWM Devs have their collective plates full developing all sorts of features for the game but if keybinding becomes "deprioritized" too much I fear we will essentially be stuck accepting the Devs' way of linking the keys to the various powers.

Bottomline it's a question of how much control we'll have to define the keys to do what we want in the game.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Just had a thought about why no flying for me: when the Left Shift key is pressed on a UK keyboard (even though it's set to US format), does that produce a different code from that produced by a native US keyboard?

I believe that by the time we see it, any nationality of the keyboard has been taken out, so if it's Left Shift on the keyboard, for whatever keyboard, we should see it that way. In the release, the key wasn't working in what I'd call a consistent way. AmiEvil already fixed that and I got a chance to test it, working much better now. Should make it into the next release.

For now, some things to keep in mind:
- Don't hold the shift key down like we used to for sprint on the ground, it's a toggle: tap on, tap again for off
- The released version doesn't handle the shift key quite right when you're in slow flight and moving, it ignores the tap. Stop and hover, and tap it, and you should be in fast flight when you start moving forward again (this has been fixed already in the internal code)
- When you're moving in fast flight mode, tapping the left shift key *will* toggle it back into slow flight

Also, left shift doesn't affect ground movement in the release version. That is also working again in our internal version.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I did manage to get the flight going, although it was a bit tricky. It seemed to have something to do with camera angle and/or distance (the view occasionally switched to put my character on the left side of the screen and at one point seemed to essentially be stuck there). Mostly the character hovered but suddenly the full speed flight would kick in. The bob during flight is a little odd, especially since the character's ankles or feet pass through each other.

I was seeing something similar in testing the fixes internally, but it seemed to mostly be some background stuff Unreal does causing some kind of lag spike. For me, this usually disappears after I've been on the map a few minutes. I've seen several different manifestations of this, including delayed reaction to keyboard commands, sudden camera shifts (I think delated reaction to mouse movement causes this, similar to the keyboard issue), and outright graphics freezes for a second or so. This kind of stuff is more likely to happen in our internal test builds where there's more stuff happening in the background, but I've seen it in release versions too. I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but it definitely seems to happen more often soon after zoning into the island, and generally stops fairly quickly.

Any more detailed reports of this sort of stuff might help us track it down, at least as far as what triggers it. Machine performance could easily be a factor here. If so, I'd expect to see it more on slower hardware.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
slagger][quote=Iathor wrote:
slagger][quote=Iathor wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Flight is also a little tricky to figure out at first; you go where the camera is pointing, so the trick I use is to hold down the W key to move forward and steer with the mouse, which is basically what I've been doing on the ground in earlier versions.

i hope that this i something that we will be able to change. you cannot look around and fly straight at the same time with this set up. i prefer "steering" with the arrow keys and moving the camera with the mouse

From some stuff AmiEvil was talking about, I think he is planning to allow looking around while flying, but I don't know exactly what the input model will be for it. I would like to make all movement be customizable, though some kinds of input in Unreal demand an analog, not binary, input. (I.e., mouse or analog joystick input). I'm a keyboard-steerer most of the time, myself, I usually use the arrow keys, so I'll certainly be looking for ways to make that possible.

First, we need to get the movement stuff itself nailed down, which AmiEvil is doing a wonderful job on. Trying the inputs to that is a lot easier to fiddle with, and I certainly intend to make it as customizable as Unreal allows (which is pretty customizable, if we use their input binding system).

Right now, the inputs for flight are just hardwired to specific keys, but I've done earlier work setting up the keybinding options, and I don't think it will be too hard to link most everything to customizable bindings. In the prior release, I did actually exclude the camera controls from the keybinding options, though it's internally supported. Unreal supports rebinding them, but when I played with it, it seemed to be more confusing than I was comfortable with. Screwing up the camera control bindings makes the game near-unplayable, I found. But then. I'm rather sensitive to unexpected, wild motions on the screen.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I'll make the point again that the "sensitivity option sliders" in this CoT build don't appear to be affecting the sensitivity at all. Basically I would characterize what I'm seeing is that the game is pegged to the "maximum sensitivity level possible" without any way to change it.

Yes, I believe that sensitivity adjustment code got lost in the current build. There's also no "standard" movement or turn rate in Unreal; the code actually *always* scales mouse movement values by some multiplier for both movement and turning; and this scale value normally gets modified by the sensitivity code. Also, this can be different for different movement modes. AmiEvil had to rebuild most of the movement input code to add flight in, and the scale factors could indeed have gotten changed along with losing the sensitivity hookup. He's looking into the current movement/turn rate issue, and will also probably get the sensitivity code connected back in. I expect this will be resolved in the next release, but we may then need to tweak further some of the scale factors for various movement mode, based on feedback.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
slagger wrote:

could even make it so that pushing both mouse buttons gives the mouse control flight

That's a good suggestion. In most games, holding the left and right mouse buttons simultaneously does result in forward movement. Accordingly, as you suggest, holding both buttons while flying would essentially be the mouse-controlled flight we are seeing now. A tip of my hat to you.

Unfortunately Mac trackpads and mice don't support "chording" the left and right buttons. And I don't think the Unreal input bindings support chords, either, with the except of modifier keys like shift and control, which can be added to most keyboard key binds (though not mouse movement or joystick analog value bindings).

So I'm not sure if this will work well for us, it would probably have to be hard-coded, not a bindable thing. We might be able to make an option to turn such a hard-coded binding on and off, though. But anything driven by that chord would also need an alternate binding for people who can't input the chord (at least without being forced to buy a separate input device).

I used to have trouble in WoW, which used the left-right mouse button chord by default to dive underwater when swimming. Fortunately, they added the ability to bind that movement mode to other input actions, so I could get around it.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The main reason I'm mentioning this is that I'm actually worried that if we're forced to accept a "predefined" set of key commands by the Unreal Engine then by default there will be a certain subset of the playerbase who will not like the key definitions no matter what they are. When the topic of keybinding in CoT has come up in the past we've been told that "it'll be complicated" and that they're considering holding off on implementing it until perhaps even after launch. I know the MWM Devs have their collective plates full developing all sorts of features for the game but if keybinding becomes "deprioritized" too much I fear we will essentially be stuck accepting the Devs' way of linking the keys to the various powers.

Bottomline it's a question of how much control we'll have to define the keys to do what we want in the game.

What you're calling keybinding, seems to be a conflation of keybinding (tying an input to an action) and macroing/scripting (creating an arbitrary string of actions which can be performed as a single action). CoH and some other games (I think STO, which is somewhat related to CoH) did do them as a unified thing, mostly because I think they were designed for command-line/script-driven control first, and then bound their commands to input keys. That's just not how Unreal natively handles inputs.

We already have keybinding, in my sense, but not macros/scripting. The latter will likely happen at some point, but it opens up a major can of worms related to how much automation is reasonable in the game. WoW went through a huge amount of trouble because their scripting system was too easily abused by gold farmers and players creating bots of various types. They spent a lot of time playing whack-a-mole, narrowing down exactly what user-level scripts were allowed to do, vs. "blessed" scripts written by Blizzard to drive the UI.

I have some notions on how to maybe make that work, but it's something I'd want to add very very cautiously. The scripting language itself is relatively trivial to add; I've written a couple extensible scripting systems myself in the course of my work career. But making sure the scripting capability doesn't ruin the game when someone abuses it ... that's very very hard to do right.

Tech Team

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The main reason I'm mentioning this is that I'm actually worried that if we're forced to accept a "predefined" set of key commands by the Unreal Engine then by default there will be a certain subset of the playerbase who will not like the key definitions no matter what they are. When the topic of keybinding in CoT has come up in the past we've been told that "it'll be complicated" and that they're considering holding off on implementing it until perhaps even after launch. I know the MWM Devs have their collective plates full developing all sorts of features for the game but if keybinding becomes "deprioritized" too much I fear we will essentially be stuck accepting the Devs' way of linking the keys to the various powers.

Bottomline it's a question of how much control we'll have to define the keys to do what we want in the game.

What you're calling keybinding, seems to be a conflation of keybinding (tying an input to an action) and macroing/scripting (creating an arbitrary string of actions which can be performed as a single action). CoH and some other games (I think STO, which is somewhat related to CoH) did do them as a unified thing, mostly because I think they were designed for command-line/script-driven control first, and then bound their commands to input keys. That's just not how Unreal natively handles inputs.

We already have keybinding, in my sense, but not macros/scripting. The latter will likely happen at some point, but it opens up a major can of worms related to how much automation is reasonable in the game. WoW went through a huge amount of trouble because their scripting system was too easily abused by gold farmers and players creating bots of various types. They spent a lot of time playing whack-a-mole, narrowing down exactly what user-level scripts were allowed to do, vs. "blessed" scripts written by Blizzard to drive the UI.

I have some notions on how to maybe make that work, but it's something I'd want to add very very cautiously. The scripting language itself is relatively trivial to add; I've written a couple extensible scripting systems myself in the course of my work career. But making sure the scripting capability doesn't ruin the game when someone abuses it ... that's very very hard to do right.

Just keep in mind how TOG handled things. In that context "keybinding" was technically "scripting" so yes the terms are fuzzy depending on context.

When you get around to tackling macroing/scripting with Unreal just follow TOG's example. They managed to provide scripting options that didn't really allow people to exploit the system anywhere near as bad as other games you could mention. For instance there was no effective way to create "bots" in TOG using keybinding because you couldn't make power activations "automatic". Botting was only seriously possible with multiple clients running simultaneously and I'm not sure there's too much you could do to prevent that.

I just don't want to be stuck doing things the "default" way no matter how clever you guys are with the defaults. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 24 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
For reference, some of us use

For reference, some of us use a different set of keybinds for movement in all games.
I gave up on WASD (with W/S being forward and back) more than a decade ago.
I retrained my muscle memory over the course of a week to instead use WERD (with E/D being forward and back, while W/R are strafe left and right) for control.

The WERD configuration for keybind controls wound up being so ergonomically superior for me that I'm NEVER going back to WASD for controls, ever.
For one thing, by shifting my left hand one key over to the right (going from W/S as a centerline middle finger location to E/D instead) I opened up the Q/A keys for use as throttle up/down keybinds (and as auto-run/walk options for ground movement), while at the same time still being able to reach the ESC and tilde keys up top with my left hand pinky finger as well as the Shift and Control keys with the same left hand pinky finger. My left index finger can reach all the way to the 6 and F6 keys on my (now 10 year old) Apple keyboard in reasonable comfort, and even the 7 and F7 keys at a stretch (not comfortable, but doable) while keeping the E or D keys pressed for continuous forward/backward movement. Before the change when using WASD, the it was uncomfortable to reach the 5 and F5 keys while in motion.

So for me, the WERD configuration allowed me to comfortably access more keys (tilde through 6) at the top of my keyboard than I could using WASD positioning (which limited me to tilde through 4 in comfort). Being able to easily access 2 more keys at the top of the keyboard in comfort was quite literally a Game Changer™ for playing games like City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Star Trek Online, and so on.

The other advantage of the WERD configuration is not just in the ergonomics of keeping your fingers naturally closer to the number and function keys at the top of the keyboard, but also the fact that a natural resting position for my left hand on the keyboard winds up being:
Left pinky on Shift key.
Left ring finger on W key.
Left middle finger on E key.
Left index finger on F key (which has a tactile bump on it on most keyboards!).
Left thumb on spacebar.

That tactile feedback from the little raised bump on the bottom of the F key winds up being an important subliminal feedback telling me that my left hand is positioned correctly over the keyboard so I can have greater confidence in my muscle memory and proprioception of the movements and positioning of my left hand so I can watch the screen and not have to look down at my hand on the keyboard to verify that I haven't gotten myself out of alignment with the keyboard. That little touch feedback cue has allowed me to train myself to spend more time watching what's happening on screen while being confident in my ability to maintain keyboard control the entire time.

For additional control keybinds, from the WERD location my left hand fingers can reach over to the T/Y and G/H and V/B keys with ease, while continuously holding down the E key to sustain movement. Once I started writing keybind files for Kheldian forms and Mastermind Pet Controls, easy muscle memory access to all of these extra keys became an imperative.

So to put it politely ... any game that uses hard coding to enforce a WASD keybind arrangement will absolutely receive a Hard Pass from me on being playable, let alone consideration for even wanting to play.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 12 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Red, we have a full rebinding

Red, we have a full rebinding solution, hanging about, the problem is, it's too early to implement it - travel and combat, at the very least need to be fully wired in and the targeting and ui need to exist in something more like a final stage. Right now, we're more running wires directly to the control system. So what you want is there, just not yet.

Project Lead

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

Unfortunately Mac trackpads and mice don't support "chording" the left and right buttons. And I don't think the Unreal input bindings support chords, either, with the except of modifier keys like shift and control, which can be added to most keyboard key binds (though not mouse movement or joystick analog value bindings).

So I'm not sure if this will work well for us, it would probably have to be hard-coded, not a bindable thing. We might be able to make an option to turn such a hard-coded binding on and off, though. But anything driven by that chord would also need an alternate binding for people who can't input the chord (at least without being forced to buy a separate input device).

I used to have trouble in WoW, which used the left-right mouse button chord by default to dive underwater when swimming. Fortunately, they added the ability to bind that movement mode to other input actions, so I could get around it.

First, I wholly expect it would need to be coded in, if UNREAL didn't already recognize it. I don't think LMB+RMB chord would or should ever be subject to keybinding.
Second, If you're limiting the controls available to PC players because of the limitations on Apple peripherals (and vice versa), then you're making a very big mistake. I use a Mac. I've used 3-button mice for decades on it. There are few if any limitations to their supportability by the Mac platform. If I were you I would operate under the assumption that Mac users will have PC style 3-button mice. In fact, I would even suggest putting that in the system requirements so Mac users don't get disappointed that they are unable to chord the LMB+RMB. (not that chording them is crucial to gameplay anyway)


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 days ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

For now, some things to keep in mind:
- Don't hold the shift key down like we used to for sprint on the ground, it's a toggle: tap on, tap again for off
- The released version doesn't handle the shift key quite right when you're in slow flight and moving, it ignores the tap. Stop and hover, and tap it, and you should be in fast flight when you start moving forward again (this has been fixed already in the internal code)

I was pretty sure I was already doing that, but I tested it again just now to be sure, and I still can't get anything more than hovering.

I'll just cross my fingers and wait for the next release that includes AmiEvil's fix.

Spurn all ye kindle.

slagger
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 05/22/2021 - 18:41
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Iathor wrote:

Unfortunately Mac trackpads and mice don't support "chording" the left and right buttons. And I don't think the Unreal input bindings support chords, either, with the except of modifier keys like shift and control, which can be added to most keyboard key binds (though not mouse movement or joystick analog value bindings).

So I'm not sure if this will work well for us, it would probably have to be hard-coded, not a bindable thing. We might be able to make an option to turn such a hard-coded binding on and off, though. But anything driven by that chord would also need an alternate binding for people who can't input the chord (at least without being forced to buy a separate input device).

I used to have trouble in WoW, which used the left-right mouse button chord by default to dive underwater when swimming. Fortunately, they added the ability to bind that movement mode to other input actions, so I could get around it.

First, I wholly expect it would need to be coded in, if UNREAL didn't already recognize it. I don't think LMB+RMB chord would or should ever be subject to keybinding.
Second, If you're limiting the controls available to PC players because of the limitations on Apple peripherals (and vice versa), then you're making a very big mistake. I use a Mac. I've used 3-button mice for decades on it. There are few if any limitations to their supportability by the Mac platform. If I were you I would operate under the assumption that Mac users will have PC style 3-button mice. In fact, I would even suggest putting that in the system requirements so Mac users don't get disappointed that they are unable to chord the LMB+RMB. (not that chording them is crucial to gameplay anyway)

i agree.

is there a ceiling? i flew until i couldn't tell that i was still going up, but it was hard to tell if i was still going or hit the cap.

wound up just stopping and turned off flight. took a few to get back down and i fell way outside the island. it was pretty neat. hit the water and kept sinking and sinking. watched the city get small fronm under it. same as flying, stopped before i hit could tell if i had hit a bottom. i was able to fly through the water and come up underneath and then through the island

slagger
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 05/22/2021 - 18:41
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Iathor wrote:

For now, some things to keep in mind:
- Don't hold the shift key down like we used to for sprint on the ground, it's a toggle: tap on, tap again for off
- The released version doesn't handle the shift key quite right when you're in slow flight and moving, it ignores the tap. Stop and hover, and tap it, and you should be in fast flight when you start moving forward again (this has been fixed already in the internal code)

I was pretty sure I was already doing that, but I tested it again just now to be sure, and I still can't get anything more than hovering.

I'll just cross my fingers and wait for the next release that includes AmiEvil's fix.

are you using the arrow keys? turns out i can use them for moving with hover, but i have to use w to use the fast flight

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Kalideus wrote:

Regarding mouse sensitivity, some mice are able to be manually changed on the fly. I have two different brands that have two buttons under the mouse wheel. Top one is for more sensitivity and bottom is less. That may help some of you.

My mouse can do that. But I would point out that even if that did help in this specific case that there is still something technically "wrong" with this game's sensitivity settings based on the simple notion that NOTHING else I run program-wise ever requires me to tinker with those controls to get it to work. The default range of sensitivity of CoT should be able to work like anything else and not be an "outlier" requiring radically different control settings.

This post is a follow-up for the "mouse sensitivity" issue I mentioned earlier. I gave the idea Kalideus suggested about the "mouse wheel" buttons a try and they actually allowed me to adjust the sensitivity way down to a controllable level. So that's a good workaround at least.

I still would think the mouse sensitivity thing needs to be looked at because again the GUI sliders are not adjusting sensitivity as expected. Also the reason I didn't initially remember the "mouse wheel" buttons in this case is that I never actually needed to use them for anything else. If no other game I've ever played has ever "required" me to use those buttons I don't really think CoT should be "requiring" me to use them either, especially considering that not everyone is going to be using a mouse that even has those buttons.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 2 days ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
slagger wrote:
slagger wrote:

are you using the arrow keys? turns out i can use them for moving with hover, but i have to use w to use the fast flight

Thank you! That was the problem. Strange that it works for one but not the other.

Now I can say I love the zoomy effect and the way the character banks (unlike in the old game), plus the superhero fast landing is kinda cool.

I will echo what others have said about wanting to be able to move/steer using the arrow keys and look around with the mouse.

Also, does the comment about UE4 not supporting the LMB-RMB chord mean that won't be a 'keep moving forward' toggle as it was in the old game? Or can MWM hardcode that, and it's just that chord doesn't support player-configurable keybinding?

Spurn all ye kindle.

amievil
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 3 hours ago
Developer
Joined: 10/21/2013 - 12:53
You will be able to move and

You will be able to move and steer while flying. The flight that's in now is the fastest flight not the complete movement system. There is another flight to be added that will allow what you guys are asking for, but it obviously won't be as fast.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
amievil wrote:
amievil wrote:

You will be able to move and steer while flying. The flight that's in now is the fastest flight not the complete movement system. There is another flight to be added that will allow what you guys are asking for, but it obviously won't be as fast.

So would you say the flight speed we're seeing in this latest build is more like some special kind of ultra fast "afterburner" version of flight that might be added later? I honestly don't mind if "standard flight" is a bit slower than say superjump or superleap so that there's a legitimate reason to pick those powers instead of flight. That "trade-off" worked completely fine in TOG.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
I think it is Blade & Soul

I think it is Blade & Soul that does it. When you go into sprint mode, the camera performs a dolly zoom and your vision narrows. This gives a real visceral feeling of speed and explains the need to keep looking directly ahead. I see this flight mode we are currently experiencing as something akin to that. It is the sprint mode of flying, and all of our focus needs to be directed ahead of us so we are unable to look to the sides. I think this is a fun touch and players will enjoy it for what it is with that knowledge. I can picture some barnstorming challenges and achievements for flyers using this mode of flight as well. DCUO has these kinds of challenges and I've enjoyed them.

Question for the devs: If I'm sprint-flying, will my character perform a superhero landing on the side of a building when I hit it if I also have the stick-to-walls power?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Thanks, Iathor, for telling

Thanks, Iathor, for telling us what toggles the Fast Flight. ^_^
The classic superhero three-point landing moves into standing up, so [Black Widow spoiler]Yelena can't call us posers,[/spoiler] unless we want to add that in as an option?
But after spending a bit of time up in the air, I noticed AIko's reflection in the sea:

Which seems to be too far away to be producing such a large reflected (if distorted) image.

That's what I've got so far.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Getting into position to take

Getting into position to take this shot may have caused the subsequent fatal error crash... Relaunching!

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

amievil
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 3 hours ago
Developer
Joined: 10/21/2013 - 12:53
Had no plans for it

Had no plans for it the super landing on walls question thought I copied it.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

amievil
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 3 hours ago
Developer
Joined: 10/21/2013 - 12:53
Yes this is the final fastest

Yes this is the final fastest version of flight that is there right now. It is supposed to be too fast for you to look around and such.

Senior Gameplay Engineer.

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

But after spending a bit of time up in the air, I noticed AIko's reflection in the sea: ....
Which seems to be too far away to be producing such a large reflected (if distorted) image.

The water used on the island map is weird with reflections, I remember reporting that back before I joined up (ack, it’s been a whole year now...?). It’s not been worth fixing since that’s a test map not intended to go into the game; there’s a different, larger version that will become a zone map.

I’m pretty sure we’re using different water in the real maps Red has been building for Alexandria. For one thing, the “water” on the island doesn’t have a visible surface if you’re underwater. It also doesn’t handle swimming. Basically it’s just a poor illusion of water if you’re above it. And if you look closely, I think you’ll find that characters are reflected inverted, for some reason.

Tech Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Getting into position to take this shot may have caused the subsequent fatal error crash... Relaunching!

Yeah, the flight ceiling on the test map is missing. I think there are also some other boundaries missing, so if you go to the right spots at the map edges, you can fall off.

Tech Team

slagger
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 05/22/2021 - 18:41
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Getting into position to take this shot may have caused the subsequent fatal error crash... Relaunching!

happened to me too. flew up until iw as not sure i was still going and then turned off flight. took a few to fall all the way back down then i hit the water and kept going. waited to see how far it would take me. i didn't crash, though. i was able to fly/swim up under the island. saw inside the buildings but couldn't go in. got back to the island by going through the grass

slagger
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 1 day ago
Joined: 05/22/2021 - 18:41
Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Getting into position to take this shot may have caused the subsequent fatal error crash... Relaunching!

Yeah, the flight ceiling on the test map is missing. I think there are also some other boundaries missing, so if you go to the right spots at the map edges, you can fall off.

does not seem to be a floor in the water, either. do you know if that is going to be the final fall animation?

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 24 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Getting into position to take this shot may have caused the subsequent fatal error crash... Relaunching!

This reminds me of the time I was able to exit Peregrine Island and wound up OUTSIDE THE WAR WALLS of Talos Island. Told everyone in zone chat to come see me outside the War Wall by the Skyway entrance and people couldn't believe that I was "outside the walls" while still in the zone and waving to them from the far side of the War Wall force field. Was able to use Flight powers to go "around the edges" of the zone and see underneath, where the water was just "pouring through" the zone from waterfalls and plummeting into the void below the land surfaces. All kinds of wacky 3D jiggery-pokery stuff outside the War Walls (and some of it was kinda 2D cheats ...).


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
slagger wrote:
slagger wrote:

does not seem to be a floor in the water, either. do you know if that is going to be the final fall animation?

Not sure exactly where the animations are at, I think the new stuff is all directly involved in flight, and the rest of the animations are still the default Unreal stuff. More than likely it will get tweaked, at least, and quite possibly replaced. I know there’s another set of ground movement animations that are pretty far along, as part of the full travel set, but they’re not in the current release.

The water and underwater areas on the island are definitely not the stuff that’s in the real maps, it was just a placeholder for the test zone. The pond on the island is messed up, too. We’re not really putting any effort into fixing stuff on the island map, since the map efforts are all going towards getting the launch maps built, and the test island actually is a cut down version of a zone that will be higher level than that.

Tech Team

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 20 min ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
In the update you say "Of

In the update you say "Of course, there’s more to come. There might even be a hint in the first gif..."

So, of course, I blew the gif up, pasted a screenshot in word, cropped it to see the what the white names said and got Officer Smith and Rooks Slicer (maybe its Rook Slicer).

I don't have the game yet, so I'm not sure if those people were already part of the island, but if not it might mean some kind of hostile interaction is looming on the horizon.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

warlocc
warlocc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 33 min ago
Developerkickstarter
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 16:38
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

In the update you say "Of course, there’s more to come. There might even be a hint in the first gif..."

So, of course, I blew the gif up, pasted a screenshot in word, cropped it to see the what the white names said and got Officer Smith and Rooks Slicer (maybe its Rook Slicer).

I don't have the game yet, so I'm not sure if those people were already part of the island, but if not it might mean some kind of hostile interaction is looming on the horizon.

I can tell you that they're not part of the island. Make of that what you will!

PR Team, Forum Moderator, Live Response Team

Iathor
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Developer
Joined: 07/16/2015 - 21:16
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

So, of course, I blew the gif up, pasted a screenshot in word, cropped it to see the what the white names said and got Officer Smith and Rooks Slicer (maybe its Rook Slicer).

I don't have the game yet, so I'm not sure if those people were already part of the island, but if not it might mean some kind of hostile interaction is looming on the horizon.

The two officers have been there since the last release, they just didn’t have nameplates. The Rook Slicer was added when I was testing adding some characters for REDACTED. But she doesn’t do anything but stand there at the moment.

Tech Team

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 12 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Question for the devs: If I'm sprint-flying, will my character perform a superhero landing on the side of a building when I hit it if I also have the stick-to-walls power?

That's planned, but if it has weird side effects like winding up inverted we might kill it.

Project Lead

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Question for the devs: If I'm sprint-flying, will my character perform a superhero landing on the side of a building when I hit it if I also have the stick-to-walls power?

That's planned, but if it has weird side effects like winding up inverted we might kill it.

Totally understandable.
As I'm sure you're already familiar, anyone who's put complex systems together will testify the individual systems might be challenging and show off the talent of the developers; but the real challenge, success and 90% of the difficulty comes with the interfaces between all the systems.

I assume that only one mode of travel will be active at any time, so turning on wall-walking would automatically toggle flight off. Would a collision into an obstruction while sprint flying procc that toggle into wall-walking if wall-walking is an option? So many edge cases for you guys to work out with that! I think a simple collision followed by a fall would be acceptable if you can't get super-landing onto a building to work:

I imagine that wall-sticking will procc within proximity to a wall, so maybe players could learn to toggle it on manually before they go splat(either into the wall, or onto the ground after a collision). Also I presume a character could fly or hover up against a wall and toggle it manually to translate from flight to wall walk in a far more controlled manner than sprinting into it head first.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I assume that only one mode of travel will active at any time, so turning on wall-walking would automatically toggle flight off.

I wouldn't automatically assume that we would only be able to have one travel power toggle power active at the same time in CoT. The main reason I came up with such admittedly convoluted keybind files for TOG was precisely because SOME powers could be active at the same time while others couldn't. The most efficient way to make sure things were on and/or off in the proper sequence without having to manually toggle every power was to have keybinds like that.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 20 min ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I assume that only one mode of travel will be active at any time

I hope that is not the case. In TOG you could toggle super jump and super speed together and that worked really well together, I would hope that would still be an option in this game.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I assume that only one mode of travel will be active at any time

Dark Cleric wrote:

I hope that is not the case. In TOG you could toggle super jump and super speed together and that worked really well together, I would hope that would still be an option in this game.

Lothic wrote:

I wouldn't automatically assume that we would only be able to have one travel power toggle power active at the same time in CoT. The main reason I came up with such admittedly convoluted keybind files for TOG was precisely because SOME powers could be active at the same time while others couldn't. The most efficient way to make sure things were on and/or off in the proper sequence without having to manually toggle every power was to have keybinds like that.

You both bring up good points. There might be some travel powers compatible with others. But I would refrain from using TOG as your rationale.

For example, TOG did superspeed poorly. If you want to know how to incorporate superspeed in an MMORPG, refer instead to DCUO. While not flawless (doorways and light posts are the bane of all speedsters in that game) it is very well implemented. In DCUO, a speedster can super jump off any surface, inclined and especially vertical surfaces can be used to launch a speedster for miles. So there might be no need for having super jump simultaneously with it in CoT.

My recommendation for MWM implementing superspeed: Put a line on the ground in advance of the speedster to show them where their current path will take them. In lore, speedsters are expected to have increased perception and reflexes to adequately navigate at their increased velocity. Unfortunately, the player base is operating at mere mortal speed. A path indicator would go a long way towards giving the player advanced warning that their current path will wrap them around a light post far enough in advance to actually avoid it.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Sure it's not simply a matter

Sure it's not simply a matter of what powers can be toggled on or off with what. Exactly how CoT implements its travel powers will definitely be a factor in how they'll react with each other.

I think it's plain enough to say that it'll be critical to allow the various travel powers in CoT to "dovetail" each other. What I mean by that is that it'll need to be easy to be able to transition between multiple modes of travel without too many "artificial" control/motion barriers. For instance we need to be able to transition between "Hover" and "Fly" seamlessly without having to stop dead in midair to make a hard switch between the two modes. We need to just be able to "slide" from one travel mode to another without hard breaks in motion.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

For instance we need to be able to transition between "Hover" and "Fly" seamlessly without having to stop dead in midair to make a hard switch between the two modes. We need to just be able to "slide" from one travel mode to another without hard breaks in motion.

I know you're just using this as a 'for instance's make your point. But in this for instance, here's the solution I hope MWM implements:

Flight is flight. There should be one keybind for it. Period. Hover is just the "walk" version of fly, so the same keybind one uses to walk on land should be the same keybind one uses to hover while flight is activated. If a character only spent enough advancement points to be able to hover, then it won't make a difference whether they "walk"or not. Likewise, while flight power is active, if the character activates "sprint" they should enter fast-flight mode. If they haven't spent enough advancement points to be able to enter fast-flight mode then "sprinting" will do nothing. Seems simple enough to me.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
I realize as you said it's
Huckleberry wrote:

Flight is flight. There should be one keybind for it. Period. Hover is just the "walk" version of fly, so the same keybind one uses to walk on land should be the same keybind one uses to hover while flight is activated. If a character only spent enough advancement points to be able to hover, then it won't make a difference whether they "walk"or not. Likewise, while flight power is active, if the character activates "sprint" they should enter fast-flight mode. If they haven't spent enough advancement points to be able to enter fast-flight mode then "sprinting" will do nothing. Seems simple enough to me.

I realize as you said it's not 100% useful to draw comparisons between TOG and CoT but "Hovering" was not simply the "walking version of Fly" back in TOG. Here were the fundamental differences between the two powers:

1) The top speed of Hover was slower than the top speed of Fly. This is the "obvious" difference between the two.
2) Hover wasn't technically a 'travel power' as much as it was a three dimensional Defense power. It provided Defense value (in terms of actual % values) as well as positional defense from Melee attacks. Fly provided no Defense value numbers-wise.
3) Hover provided much more inertial control than Fly did. You could literally "stop on a dime" with Hover whereas Fly always suffered from a degree of inertial drift when trying to come to a stop.
4) Also just to be complete Hover required effectively no END to run whereas Fly cost a relatively large amount of END to operate. Hover was "designed" to be used while in combat while Fly was costed to make it harder to use while in combat.

So it's not entirely certain how CoT will be handling the "operational dynamic differences" between Flying and Hovering.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 7 hours ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
In TOG, I would run 'Combat

In TOG, I would run 'Combat Jumping' and 'Fly' at the same time. Not just for the minor defense-boost, but it made Fly more stable.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

In TOG, I would run 'Combat Jumping' and 'Fly' at the same time. Not just for the minor defense-boost, but it made Fly more stable.

Yeah the "inertial control" from the Combat Jumping probably did help keep the basic Fly power under better control. I had several characters who basically never touched the ground for hours at a time - with my Fly/Hover binds it was fairly easy (via muscle memory) to "move" with Fly and "stop precisely" using Hover.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I realize as you said it's not 100% useful to draw comparisons between TOG and CoT but "Hovering" was not simply the "walking version of Fly" back in TOG. Here were the fundamental differences between the two powers:

1) The top speed of Hover was slower than the top speed of Fly. This is the "obvious" difference between the two.
2) Hover wasn't technically a 'travel power' as much as it was a three dimensional Defense power. It provided Defense value (in terms of actual % values) as well as positional defense from Melee attacks. Fly provided no Defense value numbers-wise.
3) Hover provided much more inertial control than Fly did. You could literally "stop on a dime" with Hover whereas Fly always suffered from a degree of inertial drift when trying to come to a stop.
4) Also just to be complete Hover required effectively no END to run whereas Fly cost a relatively large amount of END to operate. Hover was "designed" to be used while in combat while Fly was costed to make it harder to use while in combat.

So it's not entirely certain how CoT will be handling the "operational dynamic differences" between Flying and Hovering.

Have you ever toggled walk while on land? That is a completely different animation with different behavioral rules. Everything you described as "Hover" above is easily applied as the walk version of fly, so I really fail to see what point you are trying to make.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I realize as you said it's not 100% useful to draw comparisons between TOG and CoT but "Hovering" was not simply the "walking version of Fly" back in TOG. Here were the fundamental differences between the two powers:

1) The top speed of Hover was slower than the top speed of Fly. This is the "obvious" difference between the two.
2) Hover wasn't technically a 'travel power' as much as it was a three dimensional Defense power. It provided Defense value (in terms of actual % values) as well as positional defense from Melee attacks. Fly provided no Defense value numbers-wise.
3) Hover provided much more inertial control than Fly did. You could literally "stop on a dime" with Hover whereas Fly always suffered from a degree of inertial drift when trying to come to a stop.
4) Also just to be complete Hover required effectively no END to run whereas Fly cost a relatively large amount of END to operate. Hover was "designed" to be used while in combat while Fly was costed to make it harder to use while in combat.

So it's not entirely certain how CoT will be handling the "operational dynamic differences" between Flying and Hovering.

Have you ever toggled walk while on land? That is a completely different animation with different behavioral rules. Everything you described as "Hover" above is easily applied as the walk version of fly, so I really fail to see what point you are trying to make.

The point is that Hover was a fundamentally DIFFERENT power than Fly. It wasn't just "a slow 1st gear version of Fly". Do we know for sure what "secondary aspects" CoT will attach to their travel powers? Will CoT's "version" of Hover provide a Defense value benefit or an inertial control benefit? There's more to all this than just the relative "speeds" involved.

Now the question of how to activate powers in a new game is something we can certainly talk about. But if you don't fully appreciate how these various travel powers relate to each other then you're not going to be able to come up with a good way for a player to control these things.

P.S. The Walk power in TOG was very much the oddball considering its secondary side-effect was that it locked out almost every other power a character could use. Hopefully CoT's Walk will not be as draconian. It'd be nice to be able to move through the entire range of Walk, Jog, Sprint and/or Super Speed while being able to fight at ANY of those speeds.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I realize as you said it's not 100% useful to draw comparisons between TOG and CoT but "Hovering" was not simply the "walking version of Fly" back in TOG. Here were the fundamental differences between the two powers:

1) The top speed of Hover was slower than the top speed of Fly. This is the "obvious" difference between the two.
2) Hover wasn't technically a 'travel power' as much as it was a three dimensional Defense power. It provided Defense value (in terms of actual % values) as well as positional defense from Melee attacks. Fly provided no Defense value numbers-wise.
3) Hover provided much more inertial control than Fly did. You could literally "stop on a dime" with Hover whereas Fly always suffered from a degree of inertial drift when trying to come to a stop.
4) Also just to be complete Hover required effectively no END to run whereas Fly cost a relatively large amount of END to operate. Hover was "designed" to be used while in combat while Fly was costed to make it harder to use while in combat.

So it's not entirely certain how CoT will be handling the "operational dynamic differences" between Flying and Hovering.

Have you ever toggled walk while on land? That is a completely different animation with different behavioral rules. Everything you described as "Hover" above is easily applied as the walk version of fly, so I really fail to see what point you are trying to make.

The point is that Hover was a fundamentally DIFFERENT power than Fly. It wasn't just "a slow 1st gear version of Fly". Do we know for sure what "secondary aspects" CoT will attach to their travel powers? Will CoT's "version" of Hover provide a Defense value benefit or an inertial control benefit? There's more to all this than just the relative "speeds" involved.

Now the question of how to activate powers in a new game is something we can certainly talk about. But if you don't fully appreciate how these various travel powers relate to each other then you're not going to be able to come up with a good way for a player to control these things.

P.S. The Walk power in TOG was very much the oddball considering its secondary side-effect was that it locked out almost every other power a character could use. Hopefully CoT's Walk will not be as draconian. It'd be nice to be able to move through the entire range of Walk, Jog, Sprint and/or Super Speed while being able to fight at ANY of those speeds.

You're so stuck on TOG you fail to see what can be. First of all the combat systems in CoT are going to be completely different than those of CoX. So just because Hover provided a defense buff in the combat system of CoX, with all its mechanics and balancing and other issues that needed to be integrated holistically with other systems in mind, does not mean that Hover in CoT can or even should. CoT has its own set of mechanics, balance issues and systems to consider and integrate with holistically. So its too early to even want it to behave like Hover did in ToG, let alone expect it to.
We've already had the devs say this:

tannim222 wrote:

No Augments for travel powers. The don’t have sockets of any kind. They also do not provide any combat benefits as they are separate from the combat system and powers.


and from the most recent update:

Quote:

You can make a really decent flight power with improved speed and reduced cost and also reduce the Willpower rating which makes it harder for the travel power to be affected by a control.

So we know that enemies will be able to interact with our characters while traveling.

If you want to be able to hover in combat so as to keep a distance from grounded melee attackers, what's stopping CoT from making that the same as the toggled walk version of flight? If the sprint version of flight is the mouse-controlled looking forward only that we are experiencing on the island right now, and the normal version of flight enables the character to look around go up and go down, but offers no combat defenses; then what's stopping MWM from making the walk version of flight capable of using combat abilities? Seems logical to me.

If each travel power has its own version of sprint run and walk, then we might be able to start grouping their functions accordingly.
Sprint version of wall-walking uses grappling hooks(or aesthetically different alternatives that accomplish the same mechanic) for zipping from building to building, but while grappling no other actions can be taken.
Run version of wall-walking is actual wall running, but don't get hit or you could fall
Walk version of wall-walking is a crawl, and can be used in combat to scale the environment.

likewise with Teleport:
The sprint version of Teleport is just like the fast-fly we see on the island, but aesthetically looks more like Yugo from Wakfu:
as he builds up speed to get to this:
while the Run version of Teleport should behave similarly to how we experienced it in CoX.
and the walk version of teleport is a short ranged combat version that lets us use ground targeting control methods to blink around the battlefield, perhaps allowing it to be immune to movement control effects if we so choose to select such a slot for it.

and last but not least, Super Jump.
sprint version of super-jump is like fast-fly. Its farther and faster but we can only see ahead along our path.
run version of super-jump is just like CoX in that we have some semblance of control and can look around while in the air
walk version of super-jump is short range and meant for combat so we can jump around the battlefield like a flea, perhaps even allowing us to select a slot that provides resistance to knock back/up/down effects.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I realize as you said it's not 100% useful to draw comparisons between TOG and CoT but "Hovering" was not simply the "walking version of Fly" back in TOG. Here were the fundamental differences between the two powers:

1) The top speed of Hover was slower than the top speed of Fly. This is the "obvious" difference between the two.
2) Hover wasn't technically a 'travel power' as much as it was a three dimensional Defense power. It provided Defense value (in terms of actual % values) as well as positional defense from Melee attacks. Fly provided no Defense value numbers-wise.
3) Hover provided much more inertial control than Fly did. You could literally "stop on a dime" with Hover whereas Fly always suffered from a degree of inertial drift when trying to come to a stop.
4) Also just to be complete Hover required effectively no END to run whereas Fly cost a relatively large amount of END to operate. Hover was "designed" to be used while in combat while Fly was costed to make it harder to use while in combat.

So it's not entirely certain how CoT will be handling the "operational dynamic differences" between Flying and Hovering.

Have you ever toggled walk while on land? That is a completely different animation with different behavioral rules. Everything you described as "Hover" above is easily applied as the walk version of fly, so I really fail to see what point you are trying to make.

The point is that Hover was a fundamentally DIFFERENT power than Fly. It wasn't just "a slow 1st gear version of Fly". Do we know for sure what "secondary aspects" CoT will attach to their travel powers? Will CoT's "version" of Hover provide a Defense value benefit or an inertial control benefit? There's more to all this than just the relative "speeds" involved.

Now the question of how to activate powers in a new game is something we can certainly talk about. But if you don't fully appreciate how these various travel powers relate to each other then you're not going to be able to come up with a good way for a player to control these things.

P.S. The Walk power in TOG was very much the oddball considering its secondary side-effect was that it locked out almost every other power a character could use. Hopefully CoT's Walk will not be as draconian. It'd be nice to be able to move through the entire range of Walk, Jog, Sprint and/or Super Speed while being able to fight at ANY of those speeds.

You're so stuck on TOG you fail to see what can be. First of all the combat systems in CoT are going to be completely different than those of CoX. So just because Hover provided a defense buff in the combat system of CoX, with all its mechanics and balancing and other issues that needed to be integrated holistically with other systems in mind, does not mean that Hover in CoT can or even should. CoT has its own set of mechanics, balance issues and systems to consider and integrate with holistically. So its too early to even want it to behave like Hover did in ToG, let alone expect it to.
We've already had the devs say this:

tannim222 wrote:

No Augments for travel powers. The don’t have sockets of any kind. They also do not provide any combat benefits as they are separate from the combat system and powers.


and from the most recent update:

Quote:

You can make a really decent flight power with improved speed and reduced cost and also reduce the Willpower rating which makes it harder for the travel power to be affected by a control.

So we know that enemies will be able to interact with our characters while traveling.

If you want to be able to hover in combat so as to keep a distance from grounded melee attackers, what's stopping CoT from making that the same as the toggled walk version of flight? If the sprint version of flight is the mouse-controlled looking forward only that we are experiencing on the island right now, and the normal version of flight enables the character to look around go up and go down, but offers no combat defenses; then what's stopping MWM from making the walk version of flight capable of using combat abilities? Seems logical to me.

If each travel power has its own version of sprint run and walk, then we might be able to start grouping their functions accordingly.
Sprint version of wall-walking uses grappling hooks(or aesthetically different alternatives that accomplish the same mechanic) for zipping from building to building, but while grappling no other actions can be taken.
Run version of wall-walking is actual wall running, but don't get hit or you could fall
Walk version of wall-walking is a crawl, and can be used in combat to scale the environment.

likewise with Teleport:
The sprint version of Teleport is just like the fast-fly we see on the island, but aesthetically looks more like Yugo from Wakfu:
as he builds up speed to get to this:
while the Run version of Teleport should behave similarly to how we experienced it in CoX.
and the walk version of teleport is a short ranged combat version that lets us use ground targeting control methods to blink around the battlefield, perhaps allowing it to be immune to movement control effects if we so choose to select such a slot for it.

and last but not least, Super Jump.
sprint version of super-jump is like fast-fly. Its farther and faster but we can only see ahead along our path.
run version of super-jump is just like CoX in that we have some semblance of control and can look around while in the air
walk version of super-jump is short range and meant for combat so we can jump around the battlefield like a flea, perhaps even allowing us to select a slot that provides resistance to knock back/up/down effects.

It's obviously way too early to draw ANY conclusions about ANY of this. The only thing I know for sure is that I played with "TOG's version" of travel powers for thousands of hours and enjoyed it quite a bit. The Devs of CoT seem hell-bent to chuck virtually EVERYTHING that we know worked well in TOG in favor of their "vision" for how things will work. Will it be better than TOG or at least be "equivalently good"? Who's to say at this point. We've only been waiting almost 9 years and counting. I simply wonder what the chances are of building a much "better mousetrap" are when the one you're collectively eager to avoid like the plague was already pretty good to begin with. MWM can SAY whatever they want about how their overall travel power system will work but frankly I don't really care about what they have to SAY about it. The proof in the pudding will be what their game actually DOES regardless of their grandiose plans for it.

Bottomline I'm willing to see how this thing is going to work out when (if?) the folks at MWM decide to show us. Don't get yourself so worked up over this stuff one way or the other...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012