Announcements

See our latest update! Lift Off - Fly Today in Titan City!

Get the latest Patch now! The MacOS Client Launcher is Now available in the store! If you've already donated $50 or more, you'll find the Mac Launcher on your rewards page. https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/

Join the conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2

Discuss: In Just Seven Days, I Can Make You A Man.

86 posts / 0 new
Last post
warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Discuss: In Just Seven Days, I Can Make You A Man.

Project Lead

Fils Du Nord
Fils Du Nord's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 13:03
Damn, those moves!

Damn, those moves!

Codename : Doctor Plague
Archetype : Ranger - Hunter
Primary : Atrophic Blast (Diseases)
Secondary : Illusion (Miasmas)
Tertiary : Undecided
Mastery : Eliminator
Movement : Teleportation, Flight

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 16 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
That animation might be a

That animation might be a slight improvement over what we had in CoH.

Possibly.

Maybe.

Woot!

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 34 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Thanks for the view of your

Thanks for the view of your lab, and for showing us what's on the slab!

Please add to the list of proposed Dance emotes: The Time Warp.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
Very nice! Love to see stuff

Very nice! Love to see stuff like this. Keep squashin' those bugs!

TriNitroToluene
TriNitroToluene's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/03/2013 - 15:47
Shut up and take my money.

Shut up and take my money. Oh wait, you already have that. In that case, keep talking and moving forward. With an occasional back or side-step.

On the subject of emotes can we get the hokey pokey? :)

Timothius
Timothius's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/04/2013 - 23:07
"I'm thinking capes... wait,

"I'm thinking capes... wait, plural?"

I hope this means what I think it means. That I can create a character with multiple capes on at the same time. You guys have oft talked about being able to combine multiples of the same costume slot.

Appreciate you guys giving an overview of what the character designer has been through. It's really exciting and while I'm hoping this means we have a builder before the year is over, I don't wanna rush perfection.

harpospoke
harpospoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 00:13
Awesome! Looks great guys.

Awesome! Looks great guys. Loving the "things are speeding up" comment too. :D

Culach
Culach's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/11/2013 - 18:12
Please tell me we can get the

Please tell me we can get the gold lame platform disco shoes...and bell-bottoms, gotta have bell-bottoms...

Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
Please have a version of

Please have a version of those boots that are transparent with goldfish swimming around inside.

DesViper
DesViper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
So this area of tech-savv is

So this area of tech-savv is beyond me :p But what's with the changing skin patterns as he's moved to the side?

I'm excited for multiple capes though ;)


PR, Forum Moderator
My Non-Canon Backstories
Avatar by MikeNovember
Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

So this area of tech-savv is beyond me :p But what's with the changing skin patterns as he's moved to the side?

We do not have the UI for pattern selection, so we used a simple Y-axis pattern selector. Trivial to implement and show off patterns.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

DesViper
DesViper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

desviper wrote:
So this area of tech-savv is beyond me :p But what's with the changing skin patterns as he's moved to the side?
We do not have the UI for pattern selection, so we used a simple Y-axis pattern selector. Trivial to implement and show off patterns.

Slick! But looking closely, it looks like only the colours are changed, not the pattern.


PR, Forum Moderator
My Non-Canon Backstories
Avatar by MikeNovember
Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
desviper wrote:
So this area of tech-savv is beyond me :p But what's with the changing skin patterns as he's moved to the side?
We do not have the UI for pattern selection, so we used a simple Y-axis pattern selector. Trivial to implement and show off patterns.
Slick! But looking closely, it looks like only the colours are changed, not the pattern.

Same approach on the X axis. Just tells me which way it is facing in relation to the movement.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Halae
Halae's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/17/2014 - 09:37
Oh man, the thing that got me

Oh man, the thing that got me when I was watching that little video was the hand articulation. That was some seriously well done finger movement.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Airhead
Airhead's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 56 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 23:38
Looking good, especially the

Looking good, especially the video!

I feel some of the stills have a gorilla-like quality, supported by his haunches and not his joints, and shoulders drooped. It reminded me of Champions Online (although I haven't seen that in a long time). However the silver shiny body and the "red boots" figure stand tall with purpose. City of Heroes mastered the purposeful idle poses, I could watch me all day. So my favorites here are silver guy, redboot guy and animated guy.

"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
"One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
If you check earlier updates,

If you check earlier updates, you may see me swearing at the shoulders. You're seeing things from old to new - and huh, funny how redboots is the last thing shown before the video.

Project Lead

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 50 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
This is looking really good,

This is looking really good, folks! Like the movement, and also the way the style seems to be aiming for that sweet spot between too cartoony (*COughCOugh*) and too realistic. Once again, CoT seems to be heading down the path I was hoping for.

Would it be possible to get higher-res versions of those screen caps? At least the ones where he's wearing the red outfit. It's hard to see detail, and zooming in doesn't really help.

Darth Fez wrote:

Woot!

You're just saying that cuz they included a fez. :-p

Spurn all ye kindle.

Hero_Zero
Hero_Zero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/20/2015 - 11:54
WOW! Just WOW!

WOW! Just WOW!
This looks great. It's really coming together.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

desviper wrote:
So this area of tech-savv is beyond me :p But what's with the changing skin patterns as he's moved to the side?
We do not have the UI for pattern selection, so we used a simple Y-axis pattern selector. Trivial to implement and show off patterns.

Would it be possible to have costume parts that rotate through a set of colors similar to this? Perhaps some that look like a window on a starship could be doable?

"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 34 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Woot!

You're just saying that cuz they included a fez. :-p

Hey, fezzes are cool!

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 16 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Woot!

You're just saying that cuz they included a fez. :-p

Hey, fezzes are cool!

Foradain is my man.

Da fez is where it's at, yo.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
So the bottom line is that

So the bottom line is that the final product will look like if City of Heroes and Champions Online had a love child.

dvirbl
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 11 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 05/03/2014 - 22:49
loved it.

loved it.
great to see things progressing along.
really liked what i saw.
keep up the great work you all are doing.

Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

So the bottom line is that the final product will look like if City of Heroes and Champions Online had a love child.

I'm not sure you should take that as the absolute final character model. For instance, they probably don't have any skin textures installed, and they said the hair is only a placeholder - that may be why the model looks like a mannequin.

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Godling wrote:
So the bottom line is that the final product will look like if City of Heroes and Champions Online had a love child.
I'm not sure you should take that as the absolute final character model. For instance, they probably don't have any skin textures installed, and they said the hair is only a placeholder - that may be why the model looks like a mannequin.

Yeah, from what they said, that model basically IS a mannequin--at least as far as surface detail. Hasn't been dressed up yet. But shows underlying movement well!

Great work guys, keep it up!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Halae
Halae's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/17/2014 - 09:37
Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

Godling wrote:
So the bottom line is that the final product will look like if City of Heroes and Champions Online had a love child.
I'm not sure you should take that as the absolute final character model. For instance, they probably don't have any skin textures installed, and they said the hair is only a placeholder - that may be why the model looks like a mannequin.

Yeah. The difference between a character with and without textures is staggering, we're not liable to get cell shading, none of the clothing he was wearing had any flow to it, the hair needs to be done...

Really, this isn't even close to what the final thing is going to look like. It gives us a basis, shows us some progress, but that's it.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

Interdictor wrote:
Godling wrote:
So the bottom line is that the final product will look like if City of Heroes and Champions Online had a love child.
I'm not sure you should take that as the absolute final character model. For instance, they probably don't have any skin textures installed, and they said the hair is only a placeholder - that may be why the model looks like a mannequin.
Yeah. The difference between a character with and without textures is staggering, we're not liable to get cell shading, none of the clothing he was wearing had any flow to it, the hair needs to be done...
Really, this isn't even close to what the final thing is going to look like. It gives us a basis, shows us some progress, but that's it.

I don't normally like to inflate anyone's ego, but this really does show how much work was invested. It might not seem like much to some, but to someone like me, who is chugging away still, at full steam ;) on kissUI (a User Interface builder using 3D mesh), i can see why MWM should be proud of their progress. But, there's still more left to do, and do, and do, and do.. even more. :p

It's a Climb!

Halae
Halae's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/17/2014 - 09:37
Oh, don't get me wrong; this

Oh, don't get me wrong; this is incredible progress, particularly for a group of folks that have never made an MMO before. I'm just trying to remind people that it's still an unfinished product.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Cyclops
Cyclops's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 35 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/10/2015 - 17:24
I am totally pumped. A

I am totally pumped. A milestone has been crossed! Thank you to the devs, artists, and all who helped make this possible.

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:

Oh, don't get me wrong; this is incredible progress, particularly for a group of folks that have never made an MMO before. I'm just trying to remind people that it's still an unfinished product.

Precisely. This showcases a lot of impressive things, as Izzy said, but it's not visually polished at all yet.

Which is good news. Because you visually polish THAT in UE3 with good art, and you really got somethin.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 34 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:
Halae wrote:

Oh, don't get me wrong; this is incredible progress, particularly for a group of folks that have never made an MMO before. I'm just trying to remind people that it's still an unfinished product.

Precisely. This showcases a lot of impressive things, as Izzy said, but it's not visually polished at all yet.
Which is good news. Because you visually polish THAT in UE3 with good art, and you really got somethin.

And imagine how good it will look in UE4!

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

Nyktos
Nyktos's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 11 months ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2014 - 16:07
I liked it. The dance

I liked it. The dance reminded me a bit of Napolean Dynamite and it certainly is leagues better then CoH's dances (which I honestly always found weird even way back near the start of the game).

Formerly known as Bleddyn

Do you want to be a hero?

My characters

Silent Sillo
Silent Sillo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/03/2014 - 08:23
Great progress!

Great progress!
The moves alone show way more physics than other MMOs. Says a lot for the upcoming combat movement.

RAN Ink

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

And imagine how good it will look in UE4!

LOL! Yeah, even better, right?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Godling
Godling's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 13:28
Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Halae wrote:
Interdictor wrote:
Godling wrote:
So the bottom line is that the final product will look like if City of Heroes and Champions Online had a love child.
I'm not sure you should take that as the absolute final character model. For instance, they probably don't have any skin textures installed, and they said the hair is only a placeholder - that may be why the model looks like a mannequin.
Yeah. The difference between a character with and without textures is staggering, we're not liable to get cell shading, none of the clothing he was wearing had any flow to it, the hair needs to be done...
Really, this isn't even close to what the final thing is going to look like. It gives us a basis, shows us some progress, but that's it.
I don't normally like to inflate anyone's ego, but this really does show how much work was invested. It might not seem like much to some, but to someone like me, who is chugging away still, at full steam ;) on kissUI (a User Interface builder using 3D mesh), i can see why MWM should be proud of their progress. But, there's still more left to do, and do, and do, and do.. even more. :p
It's a Climb!

I have seen the battle of the odobots vids and even the odobots look good . It just a matter of lighting, textures, and environment to be something more awesome.

Nadira
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/01/2014 - 13:25
I am not sure if there is

I am not sure if there is still time for it but on the off chance that the female body mesh is not finalised, please consider the following.
In a normal human female body the height of the nipples will be roughly equidistant between the shoulders and the top of the hipbones (or bellybutton for easier reference) with a tendency to be up to an inch above that midpoint. Or below that height for large breasts. The main ligament is /attached to/ the collarbone, meaning the breast itself rests below it, not on top of it the way it seems to do in the second picture.

This of course illustrates the danger of using a unimesh for male and female bodies. They are not quite extrapolations of each other. Or rather, they are but the relation is not a simple translation. Men's nipples rest pretty much directly on top of the pectoral muscles. But when a young woman starts to develop she adds an increasing amount of milk glands and fat between pectoral muscle and the skin (with the nipple). Due to the laws of gravity most of that additional mass ends up in the lower two third of the breast, and the more glands and fat are added the more this comes to overhang where the skin connects to the ribcage (for lack of an easier way to describe what actually happens).
What this does is: if moves the nipple away from the ribcage, pretty much as is shown in the second image. However, what it /also/ does is move the center of the breast (with the nipple) =sideways=. This because the ribcage is round and that is how the additional tissue settles on what is effectively a cylinder. (typically the tip of women's breasts have a 45 degree angle between them (depending on size), while for men they are pretty much facing straight forward).
And of course the center of the breast will move down, because of gravity and because Cooper's ligaments only serve as a form of scaffolding to keep the disparate tissues together (without being quite as stretchy as skin) but are by no means preformed bra cups.

For heroically idealised body shapes like MWM is going to use (like every computer game, and most every artist does since the time of the Greek sculptors) the same pinciple applies, though there is a difference between how much of the extra height is assigned to the legs (which is traditional) and how much is taken up by the length of the chest. In the later case breasts naturally end up slightly (!) higher on the chest, though in case of the stereotypical head sized breasts this actually would not make a difference (except by destroying the poor woman's back, that is).

Ideally you would want to find some (nude) reference picturs of athletic women in a rest or at most an A pose (not a T pose because lifting the arms that high also lifts the pectoral muscles). Then find a similar (or the same) model wearing a sports bra and see how that presses the breast down towards the ribcage, but not up towards the collarbone. The center of the breast is roughtly where it was without that sportsbra, but just flattened. To the point of it would be hard to immediately notice a woman has breasts at all if she is not a C cup or bigger to begin with.

(the point of a sports bar is to bind down your breasts before they escape and do themselves, or you, an injury. Regular bras are less concerned with restriction (though not unconcerned) and more with concealing (of nipples) and lifting and separating (for creating a more appealing picture to whomever is looking at you).)

dreamcatcher
dreamcatcher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/03/2013 - 17:12
Well, that was both

@Nadira: Well, that was both informative and unexpected; do you have some medical training or education? Curious to know where such specific knowledge comes from.

@MWM: Anyway, to that which I came to this forum to discuss: if you read the comments on the actual Kickstarter update, the general tone is quite a bit different to that on these forums.

While I have tried to shine a different light on the state of things to inform, and hopefully provide an alternative viewpoint, the general consensus is that this is taking too long, people have wasted their money, and have relegated this to vapour-ware, etc.

To some degree they have a point; if you set aside logic, do not have some prior knowledge of (game) software development and don't inform yourself, the fact that the promised 2-year development cycle has not been met is demoralising.

While general communications have been quite good, aside from those pesky mass-mail issues, I feel there may be a communications gap which MWM should seriously look at closing. Specifically, you have not revised backer expectations regarding delivery dates.

Now, I know some of the updates have addressed this issue to a certain degeree, but I think it's time you sent out a targetted update on this and only this.

Even if all the communication amounts to is: an apology for getting the plan wrong, an admission that you just don't know when you'll be done, and a date by which you think you will be able to give us more concrete information, I believe that will go a long way towards ameliorating 'concerned citizens'.

Something to think about, at any rate.

of Phoenix Rising
Am I

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Thank you. I'm still not able

Thank you. I'm still not able to commit to a hard date, but I feel, provided nothing goes wrong, the character creator is a matter of 'sooner' rather than 'later' and the demo is 'pretty soon after that'.

Project Lead

Fils Du Nord
Fils Du Nord's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 13:03
warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Thank you. I'm still not able to commit to a hard date, but I feel, provided nothing goes wrong, the character creator is a matter of 'sooner' rather than 'later' and the demo is 'pretty soon after that'.

Very nice. Keep up the good work!

Codename : Doctor Plague
Archetype : Ranger - Hunter
Primary : Atrophic Blast (Diseases)
Secondary : Illusion (Miasmas)
Tertiary : Undecided
Mastery : Eliminator
Movement : Teleportation, Flight

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
The new newsletter is going

The new newsletter is going out right now.

Project Lead

harpospoke
harpospoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 00:13
dreamcatcher wrote:
dreamcatcher wrote:

@MWM: Anyway, to that which I came to this forum to discuss: if you read the comments on the actual Kickstarter update, the general tone is quite a bit different to that on these forums.

That makes me a little sad.

I get the impatience....really I do. (Don't get me started on the CoH "talks") But reading these forums definitely gave me a better picture of how much work this sort of thing takes. There are a lot of people putting a lot of effort into it and they certainly do not seem to be losing their enthusiasm for creating something special. Maybe that vibe is not coming across on KS page for some reason.

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 50 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
I just received Warcabbit's

I just received Warcabbit's email update and -- while I didn't have any doubts to start with -- I think he did a great job of addressing all these issues.

Spurn all ye kindle.

warcabbit
warcabbit's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/06/2012 - 17:39
Thanks for the feedback,

Thanks for the feedback, Cinnder! I'm glad we seem to have finally got a way past the spam issues. Just takes forever.
Also I have to empty the sent items mailbox repeatedly or I blow out the quota.

Man, I wish it was like a month from now. Things are starting to come together.

Project Lead

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 14 hours 50 min ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

Man, I wish it was like a month from now. Things are starting to come together.

You're such a tease!

Spurn all ye kindle.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 24 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

I am not sure if there is still time for it but on the off chance that the female body mesh is not finalised, please consider the following.
In a normal human female body the height of the nipples will be roughly equidistant between the shoulders and the top of the hipbones (or bellybutton for easier reference) with a tendency to be up to an inch above that midpoint. Or below that height for large breasts. The main ligament is /attached to/ the collarbone, meaning the breast itself rests below it, not on top of it the way it seems to do in the second picture.
This of course illustrates the danger of using a unimesh for male and female bodies. They are not quite extrapolations of each other. Or rather, they are but the relation is not a simple translation. Men's nipples rest pretty much directly on top of the pectoral muscles. But when a young woman starts to develop she adds an increasing amount of milk glands and fat between pectoral muscle and the skin (with the nipple). Due to the laws of gravity most of that additional mass ends up in the lower two third of the breast, and the more glands and fat are added the more this comes to overhang where the skin connects to the ribcage (for lack of an easier way to describe what actually happens).
What this does is: if moves the nipple away from the ribcage, pretty much as is shown in the second image. However, what it /also/ does is move the center of the breast (with the nipple) =sideways=. This because the ribcage is round and that is how the additional tissue settles on what is effectively a cylinder. (typically the tip of women's breasts have a 45 degree angle between them (depending on size), while for men they are pretty much facing straight forward).
And of course the center of the breast will move down, because of gravity and because Cooper's ligaments only serve as a form of scaffolding to keep the disparate tissues together (without being quite as stretchy as skin) but are by no means preformed bra cups.
For heroically idealised body shapes like MWM is going to use (like every computer game, and most every artist does since the time of the Greek sculptors) the same pinciple applies, though there is a difference between how much of the extra height is assigned to the legs (which is traditional) and how much is taken up by the length of the chest. In the later case breasts naturally end up slightly (!) higher on the chest, though in case of the stereotypical head sized breasts this actually would not make a difference (except by destroying the poor woman's back, that is).
Ideally you would want to find some (nude) reference picturs of athletic women in a rest or at most an A pose (not a T pose because lifting the arms that high also lifts the pectoral muscles). Then find a similar (or the same) model wearing a sports bra and see how that presses the breast down towards the ribcage, but not up towards the collarbone. The center of the breast is roughtly where it was without that sportsbra, but just flattened. To the point of it would be hard to immediately notice a woman has breasts at all if she is not a C cup or bigger to begin with.
(the point of a sports bar is to bind down your breasts before they escape and do themselves, or you, an injury. Regular bras are less concerned with restriction (though not unconcerned) and more with concealing (of nipples) and lifting and separating (for creating a more appealing picture to whomever is looking at you).)

Ironically some have accused me of being the overly "obsessed" one when it comes to the subject of how female nipples ought be depicted in this game. Compared to everything I've ever talked about (in support of having reasonable NATURAL breast physics) in these forums you practically just presented a doctoral dissertation on the subject.

It almost surprises me we've been on opposite sides of the debate in the infamous "jiggle physics" thread. Despite your misconceptions of my position I've actually always been opposed to "the stereotypical head sized breasts [that] destroy women's backs" that most comic books force us to accept. I just want the OPTION to have the reasonable sized breasts that we'll hopefully get in CoT to MOVE naturally as well. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
1) Many human parts jiggle.

1) Many human parts jiggle. Some Superhuman parts might jiggle even more (elasticity powers, Blob-like powers)

2) Insomuch as these jiggles can be practically rendered, it adds to realism, customization, and fun

3) Insomuch as gender-specific and sexual body parts have exaggerated or accentuated jiggle (biologically gender-specific and sexual, not personal-identity gender), we get into a form of hypersexualization that is not necessarily wrong per se, but that probably is not a good idea in the City of Titans MMORPG, for sundry reasons

Obviously this is all subjective--but that's up to the Devs and there's no way around that.

Nuff said? (I'll assume not, and take my answer off the air ;P)

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 24 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Insomuch as gender-specific and sexual body parts have exaggerated or accentuated jiggle (biologically gender-specific and sexual, not personal-identity gender), we get into a form of hypersexualization that is not necessarily wrong per se, but that probably is not a good idea in the City of Titans MMORPG, for sundry reasons

Obviously this is all subjective--but that's up to the Devs and there's no way around that.

I agree with all of this completely. That's why I've ALWAYS been a proponent of reasonably subtle amounts of jiggle in games like this. I've said this literally dozens of times by now all across these forums - I'm almost surprised I have to keep clarifying myself on this every time it comes up.

Unfortunately people who tend to be against this concept always seem to think there can only ever be two completely binary types of jiggle in games: A) zero jiggle OR B) stupid fanservice amounts of jiggle. It never dawns on them that there could easily be a third, in-between type that would be a reasonable compromise for everyone. Nuff said.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
No Lothic, those who are

No Lothic, those who are against this do not feel even moderate jiggle is worth the time invested, increase in requirements or potential issues.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 24 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

No Lothic, those who are against this do not feel even moderate jiggle is worth the time invested, increase in requirements or potential issues.

Your singular non-omniscient opinion is noted. Even I don't pretend to "speak for everyone" in these cases. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Your singular non-omniscient opinion is noted. Even I don't pretend to "speak for everyone" in these cases. *shrugs*

Seriously Lothic, calling me out for over this nonsense when you had just said this.

Lothic wrote:

Unfortunately people who tend to be against this concept always seem to think there can only ever be two completely binary types of jiggle in games: A) zero jiggle OR B) stupid fanservice amounts of jiggle. It never dawns on them that there could easily be a third, in-between type that would be a reasonable compromise for everyone. Nuff said.

Can't you pretend to be civil on this topic.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 24 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Your singular non-omniscient opinion is noted. Even I don't pretend to "speak for everyone" in these cases. *shrugs*
Seriously Lothic, calling me out for over this nonsense when you had just said this.
Lothic wrote:
Unfortunately people who tend to be against this concept always seem to think there can only ever be two completely binary types of jiggle in games: A) zero jiggle OR B) stupid fanservice amounts of jiggle. It never dawns on them that there could easily be a third, in-between type that would be a reasonable compromise for everyone. Nuff said.
Can't you pretend to be civil on this topic.

Notice the word "tend". Please let me know if English is not your native language. Here's a hint: You're likely in the "tend" portion of the population due your continued intransigence on this issue.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 14 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Agreed, let's not bring that

Agreed, let's not bring that row over here.

{Edit} Gah! Too late. May I suggest that 'tend' does not mitigate 'always' and 'never'? Also, insulting people who disagree with you is rarely a winning strategy.

Nadira's post made no mention of jiggle, she was reacting to the body-models shown in this update. She made a very detailed observation about how the weight of body masses changes the way they naturally fall and how support garments affect the shape of those masses. If I wear a corset under my spandex, you might not notice how MY shape is non-optimal. *grin*

I'm looking forward to seeing more about how body-models and costume elements may interact in CoT.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Online
Last seen: 14 min 24 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Fireheart] May I suggest that
Fireheart wrote:

May I suggest that 'tend' does not mitigate 'always' and 'never'? Also, insulting people who disagree with you is rarely a winning strategy.

Oh I was pretty much directing my comments toward Brainbot directly if that wasn't obvious. But at least I wasn't targeting ALL people who are anti-jiggle. I have to assume that SOME of them are reasonable enough to accept that jiggle can come in more than two speeds so-to-speak. But my comment still stands because many anti-jigglers TEND to only see things in black or white when it comes to jiggle. That established subset ALWAYS fail to realize that almost anything can be compromised upon.

And for what it's worth I don't insult people in forums like this... I only insult flimsy arguments. I'll accept that it may be hard to see the difference but ultimately there's not too much I can do about that except maybe hold back a colorful adjective or two in future.

Fireheart wrote:

Nadira's post made no mention of jiggle, she was reacting to the body-models shown in this update. She made a very detailed observation about how the weight of body masses changes the way they naturally fall and how support garments affect the shape of those masses. If I wear a corset under my spandex, you might not notice how MY shape is non-optimal. *grin*

I'm looking forward to seeing more about how body-models and costume elements may interact in CoT.

Nadira might not have specifically used the word "jiggle" but she mentioned just about every other facet related to how breasts/nipples should be positioned, their masses and reactions in the game environment. If that didn't imply "breast physics" in some form or fashion then I'll be amazed.

Regardless I agree that it'll be interesting to see how MWM puts all the pieces together and how all the body model dynamics will react with the clothing physics.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Agreed, let's not bring that row over here--snip--I'm looking forward to seeing more about how body-models and costume elements may interact in CoT.
Be Well!
Fireheart

My apologies for my part in bringing this particular topic to this thread when it has it's own. I should have posted that over there. I think I may have lost track of what thread I was on when the infamous "jiggle" term turned up :P.

By all means, back to the body-models/costume elements discussion.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Notice the word "tend". Please let me know if English is not your native language. Here's a hint: You're likely in the "tend" portion of the population due your continued intransigence on this issue.

Yes English is my native language and I noticed the 'tend'. The manner in which it was used was to describe the relation between the nouns of 'people' and 'concept'.
What you had said was that people who make a habit of disagreeing with you always think one way and never another.

But I understood what you meant was that you thought people had a tendency to focus on the extremes of the issue and I offered a counterpoint to that summation. Then you decided it was ok to make hay of my wording which was obviously not meant to speak for everyone.
And calling me intransigent? Pot, kettle.

ooglymoogly
ooglymoogly's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 09/05/2014 - 11:13
terrific work for all the

terrific work from all the developers involved with this - the update looked pretty damn impressive.

one humble request/suggestion for you - given the way you've modeled avatar running to date, is it possible to change it to make it a little more realistic?

as an example (from a company with vastly more budget and engineering resources, obv) this looks stellar:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/7/12839040/sony-ps4-pro-mass-effect-andromeda-gameplay

just a thought - certainly not a showstopper by any means given the enormous hills you've climbed and those still left to scale.

keep up the great work, one and all!

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 16 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
I believe the intent remains

I believe the intent remains to have a game that takes advantage of modern technology but retains much of the feel of City of Heroes. As such, realism is not particularly high on the list of desired traits. The key is to emulate comic books, not real life.

Also remember that this figure is very far from complete. Depending on the textures MWM decides to add, this figure could either look very cartoony or very realistic.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I believe the intent remains to have a game that takes advantage of modern technology but retains much of the feel of City of Heroes. As such, realism is not particularly high on the list of desired traits. The key is to emulate comic books, not real life.
Also remember that this figure is very far from complete. Depending on the textures MWM decides to add, this figure could either look very cartoony or very realistic.

Just to add: As has been oft-mentioned on these forums, while a "Marvel Cinematic" looking game would be cool, the more realistic the look, the shorter the shelf-life. Staying closer to a comic book look would give a more graphic style that would age better.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

DesViper
DesViper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
I'm for either pole of comic

I'm for either pole of comic-stylized or photo-realism, but don't end up in a rubberman uncanny valley please :/


PR, Forum Moderator
My Non-Canon Backstories
Avatar by MikeNovember
Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 14 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

I'm for either pole of comic-stylized or photo-realism, but don't end up in a rubberman uncanny valley please :/

I'm for a fairly realistic comic-look, for instance Ghost in the Shell.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 1 month ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'm for a fairly realistic comic-look, for instance Ghost in the Shell.

I'd like a distinctive art style personally. Something that you don't see everywhere so comparisons are not as much an issue. Like how Bruce Timm has an iconic style,

I don't mean for them to copy his style but for MWM to come up with their own style that can become instantly recognizable as their own.

If they do decide to go for a more realistic look I think this is about the most they should do,

And they should probably not go this far

Or to put it another way, This much realism is good enough for me,

and this is more than I need

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Yeah, I haven't played, but

Yeah, I haven't played, but from screenshots, Marvel Heroes actually doesn't look that bad. A little "plastic doll" looking sometimes, but not bad. Way better than Champions and DCUO. They're both REALLY "plastic doll" looking.

Not a fan of the "plastic doll" look :P.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

ooglymoogly
ooglymoogly's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 09/05/2014 - 11:13
Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

I believe the intent remains to have a game that takes advantage of modern technology but retains much of the feel of City of Heroes. As such, realism is not particularly high on the list of desired traits. The key is to emulate comic books, not real life.
Also remember that this figure is very far from complete. Depending on the textures MWM decides to add, this figure could either look very cartoony or very realistic.

apologies, i wasn't clear in the post. i didn't mean to imply MWM should be shooting for photo-realism. I was commenting with regard to the movement of the avatar. in the link provided notice how the toon walks, begins to run, and runs. I completely agree MWMs videos thus far are all early renderings, and quite impressive for that, I'd just like to offer the ME model up as a possible target for movement dynamics if it's practical.

btw totally agree about the comic look & feel. it was one of the key visual features of CoH and worked quite well. photo-realism tends not to age well anyway.

Baalumbral
Baalumbral's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/04/2013 - 17:50
Welp now I gotta come up with

Welp now I gotta come up with a Dazzler-esque disco superhero concept.

(looks over old CoH stable to see if anyone could be shoehorned in)

Excellent work, CoT team! Love what I'm seeing!

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 16 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
ooglymoogly wrote:
ooglymoogly wrote:

I was commenting with regard to the movement of the avatar. in the link provided notice how the toon walks, begins to run, and runs. I completely agree MWMs videos thus far are all early renderings, and quite impressive for that, I'd just like to offer the ME model up as a possible target for movement dynamics if it's practical.

Smooth and natural movement is definitely a big plus. I can imagine that realism might be tricky here, as well, since this also involves a lot of iconic poses / postures that bear very little resemblance to reality. However, the aesthetic decoupling might allow MWM to provide good options for every taste.

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 14 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'm for a fairly realistic comic-look, for instance Ghost in the Shell.

...this is more than I need

Wow, that's almost exactly what I'd be looking for, though perhaps not so dark.

Be Well!
Fireheart

harpospoke
harpospoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 00:13
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
Just to add: As has been oft-mentioned on these forums, while a "Marvel Cinematic" looking game would be cool, the more realistic the look, the shorter the shelf-life. Staying closer to a comic book look would give a more graphic style that would age better.

Good point. Really realistic probably would age badly.

I was trying to figure out why the look of CoH worked so well for me. It didn't look realistic at all, but the movements of the characters really looked good. I totally bought how they ran and jumped and even stood around.

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
harpospoke wrote:
harpospoke wrote:

I was trying to figure out why the look of CoH worked so well for me. It didn't look realistic at all, but the movements of the characters really looked good. I totally bought how they ran and jumped and even stood around.

Yep, the comic book graphic art style and very nice smooth action in CoH was much, much better than the, to varying degrees, jerky plastic dolls in the current superhero games.

Something in that spirit but updated for tech and the times would be spectacular IMO.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

harpospoke wrote:
I was trying to figure out why the look of CoH worked so well for me. It didn't look realistic at all, but the movements of the characters really looked good. I totally bought how they ran and jumped and even stood around.
Yep, the comic book graphic art style and very nice smooth action in CoH was much, much better than the, to varying degrees, jerky plastic dolls in the current superhero games.
Something in that spirit but updated for tech and the times would be spectacular IMO.

A pet peeve:
I really don't want to see Lunging part of all archetypes. Tertiary / Pool power, OK, but not too effective and long recharge time. is OK.

Why do i dislike it?
I might be recalling this wrong, but I think it was SW:TOR that had a power where you almost teleport instantly into a Foe.
Wait, maybe it was DCU Online. Whichever.
Hate it. My eyes can't track the other players when they all do it. Takes my brain way too long to process the situation, i could be devoting to whats coming next.

In COH, Shield Charge was OK since it didn't happen immediately. since there was a warm up period of 2 or 3 seconds before the actual lunging. My brain can handle it better as I already predict what actions to undertake, as a Scrapper... start running towards the Foes a second before the tank Shield Charges into a group. As a Healer or DeBuffer, a seconds before the Tank Lunges, AOE DeBuff the Foes. Etc... Etc...

Sorry for derailing. just a Peeve of mine. :p

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 26 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

A pet peeve:
I really don't want to see Lunging part of all archetypes. Tertiary / Pool power, OK, but not too effective and long recharge time. is OK.
Why do i dislike it?
I might be recalling this wrong, but I think it was SW:TOR that had a power where you almost teleport instantly into a Foe.
Wait, maybe it was DCU Online. Whichever.
Hate it. My eyes can't track the other players when they all do it. Takes my brain way too long to process the situation, i could be devoting to whats coming next.
In COH, Shield Charge was OK since it didn't happen immediately. since there was a warm up period of 2 or 3 seconds before the actual lunging. My brain can handle it better as I already predict what actions to undertake, as a Scrapper... start running towards the Foes a second before the tank Shield Charges into a group. As a Healer or DeBuffer, a seconds before the Tank Lunges, AOE DeBuff the Foes. Etc... Etc...
Sorry for derailing. just a Peeve of mine. :p

Talk about your non sequiturs. Are you sure you posted that to the correct thread?

As long as there is PvP there will be gap-closers. Melee types need a way to get within melee range of other players who have ranged abilities, so the gap-closer was invented. Then range characters got gap-openers, pushbacks or retreats.

Camelot Unchained is an all PvP game that is currenlty in alpha testing and some beta1 testing and City State Games has stated that there will be no gap-closers in that game. They want front lines to be front lines and they don't like it when someone can basically teleport across the battlefield. That's just one more reason why I am looking forward to that game. So, Izzy, it looks like there are other people out there like you who do not like seeing instantaneous lunging.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Izzy
Izzy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 11:09
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Talk about your non sequiturs. Are you sure you posted that to the correct thread?

Yea.. talk of `Smooth Natural Animation Movements` made me think of how CoH did it with Shield Charge, and how some Others did it. :s
Same effect, but in CoH, Shield Charge was not as jarring! ;)

Nadira
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/01/2014 - 13:25
dreamcatcher wrote:
dreamcatcher wrote:

@Nadira: Well, that was both informative and unexpected; do you have some medical training or education? Curious to know where such specific knowledge comes from.

Actualy, an Arts minor :) Lots of anatomy in that study. You can't properly learn to draw something if you don't know how it works physically.

Nadira
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/01/2014 - 13:25
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Ironically some have accused me of being the overly "obsessed" one when it comes to the subject of how female nipples ought be depicted in this game. Compared to everything I've ever talked about (in support of having reasonable NATURAL breast physics) in these forums you practically just presented a doctoral dissertation on the subject.
It almost surprises me we've been on opposite sides of the debate in the infamous "jiggle physics" thread. Despite your misconceptions of my position I've actually always been opposed to "the stereotypical head sized breasts [that] destroy women's backs" that most comic books force us to accept. I just want the OPTION to have the reasonable sized breasts that we'll hopefully get in CoT to MOVE naturally as well. *shrugs*

1) I only commented that the female body mesh shown in image 2 looked unnatural, and explained /why/ it did so, by referring to human anatomy for what it should like instead to come across as natural. I also mentioned that this is one of the few cases where using a unimesh for both male and female characters can work against you.
I also expect that the mesh is all but finalised (and better than the early image 2), but on the off chance that there is still some tweaking possible, I would like the developers to take a quick look to see if the female body shape more closely matches actual human bodies.

2) I really do not want to drag the whole jiggle physics discussion into another thread, but I am inclined to think that pointing out that breasts sit lower on the chest than shown in one (early) picture, is not quite the same as questioning what purpose jiggle physics serve. That said, I'm not going into the actual discussion here (nor in the originating thread I might add as I am quite done with the tone of voice in that discussion).

(p.s. Programs like Poser and Daz Studio nowadays use a unimesh for their models (I am not sure if this is also true for e.g. Maya), but then have to rely on quite a few rather complex morphs to switch between natural (if typically heroically idealised) male and female bodies. This works for render and animations programs because there is no real time requirement there, but it does put a greater strain on the graphics card if applied in a game. It is in fact the ages old trade off between speed and memory usage. A unimesh allows for a smaller amount of geometry data in the graphics card, allowing more detailed worlds, but at the cost of a heavier computation load. Separate meshes require two or three times the memory footprint, but frames can be calculated more quickly, so less detail but higher fps.)

Minotaur
Minotaur's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 weeks ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 12:49
So with these animated

So with these animated fingers we can create several emotes that are incompatible with a Teen rating and one that may be trademarked by Star Trek. Now to find constructive uses :)

Tech Team and Forum Moderator

Darth Fez
Darth Fez's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 hours 16 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/20/2013 - 07:53
Homage.

Homage.

Everything is fair in love and homage, amirite?

- - - - -
Hail Beard!

Support trap clowns for CoT!

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 34 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Since Mr. Nimoy said he got

Since Mr. Nimoy said he got it from half of a multi-millennia old Terrohuman religious gesture, I'd make a claim of "public domain", like certain religious writings.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Millennium City Refugee.
Avatar courtesy of Satellite9

DesViper
DesViper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 8 hours ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Minotaur wrote:
Minotaur wrote:

So with these animated fingers we can create several emotes that are incompatible with a Teen rating and one that may be trademarked by Star Trek. Now to find constructive uses :)

Rock, Paper, Scissors!

Or nerdier derivations thereof.

Some ASL (American sign language) might be nice to have, although I couldn't pick a top ten to put animations for.


PR, Forum Moderator
My Non-Canon Backstories
Avatar by MikeNovember
Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 26 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
it would be pretty cool to

it would be pretty cool to see squads of police or soldiers using hand signals as they deploy.

It would be cool to give a countdown by counting with fingers.

If you're going to be drinking tea, you'd better have your pinky extended.

If I've got my eyes on you, then I'm doing the 'v' with my fingers between my eyes and yours.

I wonder if we could make shadow puppets?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Airhead
Airhead's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 56 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 23:38
Index fingers in ears. Not

Index fingers in ears. Not listening / don't care.
Contemplating with steepled index fingers held to the lips.
Air guitar.
Air trombone / sax.
Air piano (especially if there's also real pianos).
Pick nose.
Finger whistling.
Baseball catcher signals.

"The illusion which exalts us is dearer to us than ten thousand truths." - Pushkin
"One piece of flair is all I need." - Sister Silicon

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 9 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
(No subject)


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
ScorpionKing
ScorpionKing's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/07/2015 - 13:28
Will there be an option to

Will there be an option to have classic Mitten Hands?

You see these claws. If I manage to scratch you you'll be out of blood faster than you can call an ambulance.

Warpdrive
Warpdrive's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 21:08
I liked this update quite a

I liked this update quite a bit, actually. Showing that they were making some progress with the character models. How they'll move, improving the collision detection and such. The little dance at the end made me chuckle. I know it may not seem like a lot for some people, and they'd rather see fighting, or actual gameplay, but this is a huge step forward to actually making the game look pretty. The more these little videos and updates go on, the more they poke at the spark of hope I have that this game will really be CoX's spiritual successor.

Wormholes are just silly. One moment you're here. The next you're stunned and over there. Ha. Gravity is silly.

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
I think the count down emote

I think the count down emote is a great idea but I think visibility might be issue. Hands are very small when your character (or someone elses who might be occulded by themselves yourself or someone else) is only taking up 1/10th of the screen. So I suggest a chat bubble aid like the old rock paper scissors or coin flip or roll dice emotes. Having that count down as an automated e-mote would be great as it came up frequently enough in game. Unless you had it set as a bind or macro this was not the easiest thing in the world to do. It would also standardize the "when do we go?" thing. Presumably /e_321go would always have the go at the end. I've put too much thought into this now.

Shadow Elusive
Shadow Elusive's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/10/2013 - 09:38
The female shown here is not

The female shown here is not the final, and it is likely at least some of the points made here are being addressed for the final.

--------------------------

Interior Map Lead and UI Designer
Nadira
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/01/2014 - 13:25
Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The female shown here is not the final, and it is likely at least some of the points made here are being addressed for the final.

Thank you for the update. I'm looking forward to see how it will turn out.

Culach
Culach's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/11/2013 - 18:12
On the subject of realistic

On the subject of realistic motion:
I like more realism, but want to see the game have movements that fit the world being built. This means that, at least in this case, I want both style AND substance...

On the subject of jiggle physics:
If the complaint is about resources of the devs being taken up, that may be reasonable, but it is something that the UE4 engine seems more than capable of handling. If the issue is with computer resources, I work on a 6 year old comp, and play on it, and it handles jiggle physics fine. If you are having issues it is probably time to upgrade so you can actually continue to play the games that are coming out.

On realistic appearances:
I'd like to have a more realistic appearance for the characters, as long as it fits the style of the game. That said, unrealistic breasts irritate me, and I am a guy, thus I would normally be grouped with the individuals who want super-heroic breasts (ala on female avatars. please...no Mighty Endowed
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aOJezM25IGc/S6ypm3VimsI/AAAAAAAAAAU/c037tVjm_IE/s1600/Mighty+Endowed+02.jpg