Why didn't you release those videos earlier? That's what I've been waiting to see not more Lore posts.. You asked a lot of people to take things on faith and holding back signs of genuine work and progress makes it a lot harder to convince others that you're not a fly-by-night operation. Of course it wasn't going to look perfect, but it was a lot more informative of the state of production than the character builder video or the materials video in terms of how the systems are going to actually fit together.

Why don't you release a weekly/monthly video of the current state of the engine? Seeing progress like that makes it a lot easier to talk up what's coming to other people.

I really like the smoothness of the animations, and the effects of that pyre power are boss.

And city hall!

I'm glad you guys were able to get this update out for the new year.

Happy New Year to us!

And Cyrano de Bellygerac.

Oh Empy, TMI!!!!!

Back to the subject, this is looking so much like the game I've been waiting for. Heck, I'd almost pay just to play the game looking like this, and you say the art team has barely gotten their hands on it yet.

You folks just keep confirming my faith in MWM. Thanks, happy holidays, and keep up the good work!

Tatterdamalion wrote:

Why didn't you release those videos earlier? That's what I've been waiting to see not more Lore posts.. You asked a lot of people to take things on faith and holding back signs of genuine work and progress makes it a lot harder to convince others that you're not a fly-by-night operation. Of course it wasn't going to look perfect, but it was a lot more informative of the state of production than the character builder video or the materials video in terms of how the systems are going to actually fit together.
Why don't you release a weekly/monthly video of the current state of the engine? Seeing progress like that makes it a lot easier to talk up what's coming to other people.

I don't think you read the text of the update, 'why we hadn't released them' was a major part of it. It may well be we were wrong or you don't agree, but the reasons we didn't are there. We're *very* leery of giving people the wrong idea, and I spent a lot of time all over the net correcting all the wrong impressions these vids made when they were first released.

We don't really consider trying to sell other people on us a wise course of action at this time. Glad you want to, but we can't support that right now. Leave 'em alone until...well actually, pretty soon. Those teasers are for something big.

I don't think you comprehend the level of work that would go into making even a halfway professional such video on such a regular basis. We barely have the time to make this game. We don't have time for shiny videos about it very often unless they basically happened in the course of development - like AmIEvil's vids did.

That said, we've just hit the point where more visually impressive stuff is happening more naturally. So, there should be more like this from now on. How much more, should start slow but ramp up. That's just a very informed guess though.

Wow, this was the best update in a long time. Makes me excited for the game again. Please give us more updates like this one.

This is something that should generate some real enthusiasm as it makes the rounds.

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

From the article, quoting an official statement:
Quote:
All assets in these vids are owned by MWM but many will not be used as shown in them.
Does this mean the animation blockage has been resolved, or was this statement in error (if, admittedly, an understandable one -- people often forget that animations are "assets" just as much as meshes or UI elements)?

Dude, it says 'many' not all. It's an open ended statement so people know not to expect everything they see, without me trying to guess and make shaky statements about which. No asset is particular, animation or otherwise, is being singled out.

The assets I *know* are in heavy question of long term use are all the ones from Infinity Blade, which are legally free to use but not necessarily ones we want. But because it's early testing vids using whatever is convenient, theoretically every asset is in question, by nature, and I wanted to make sure people realized that so we wouldn't get torched for something we dropped later.

Tatterdamalion wrote:

Why didn't you release those videos earlier? That's what I've been waiting to see not more Lore posts.. You asked a lot of people to take things on faith and holding back signs of genuine work and progress makes it a lot harder to convince others that you're not a fly-by-night operation. Of course it wasn't going to look perfect, but it was a lot more informative of the state of production than the character builder video or the materials video in terms of how the systems are going to actually fit together.
Why don't you release a weekly/monthly video of the current state of the engine? Seeing progress like that makes it a lot easier to talk up what's coming to other people.

Part of the answer is because the earlier videos were done by the coder before he came onto our project and he was using his precious work and integrating it with some of our systems.

Another reason is to most people work in progress at the prototype level can be misleading to people who are not familiar with the development process. They require explanations and caveats wjich weren't providedd because they weren't done quite at the colaborative level.

It was still very nice of the Valiance team to show them as an example of progress to combat some negativity towards our efforts.

Shadow Elusive wrote:

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
As a comment: if y'all are going to keep producing internal-only videos or things that need disclaimers, you might want to look into using the post-processing stage to add a "watermark" across the video that indicates that it is prototype footage. I would say "at the UI layer" except then it wouldn't show up if you turn off the UI, you'd have to worry about Z-fighting, etc. Doing it in the post stage is liable to be much simpler.
So far as I can tell, adding a simple translucent 'stamp' in the post should be reasonably simple with recent versions of the engine -- if you look at https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Rendering/PostProcessEffects/PostProcessMaterials/PostProcessDemoMaterialOverview/index.html and assume that you use a text-driven "texture" rather than loading in image samplers, you have probably 80% of it right there.

That...is not a bad idea. Although it may not be necessary. The Evil leak is pretty easy to understand, he was posting them normally to his personal youtube channel, which worked fine until Massively dug it up. Now he's taking standard precautions with how he posts them (hidden status, stuff like that). We've currently got no reason to expect the standard precautions not to be sufficient. We simply weren't taking them. Derp.

True, and I wouldn't have suggested it at all if it didn't appear to be something that had much of the work already available in an example. I just *also* figured that y'all might eventually want it for more general watermark purposes as well, especially once things reach a certain stage where it becomes more relevant.

The priority will obviously vary based on what you need when, but I figured it didn't hurt to point out that it was possible today, even if you don't use it for a while yet. :)

I got some interesting information about focus by showing part of the video to the wife just now. Apparently the character animations take up about 99% of my attention, and I barely see stuff near the edge of the screen. At about 5:53, she said, "Oh, there's trouble over the bridge," and I wondered how she knew what was coming up next till she pointed out the mission text over to the right...

I'm considering watching the video again with a sticky note pasted over the centre of the screen.

Lookin' good!

I noticed on some of the burning melee that the punches do burn damage. Is that from a Boost or is that Fire Melee? Or are these irrelevant since these were leaked? :p

I hope that ice PBAoE is for realz because that is awesome!

*fanboys*

Because I'm not a *complete* curmudgeon and grump of a sheep, some positive reinforcement:

The elemental indicator on the damage numbers is a lot saner in the presented video. Personally I'm not convinced that it won't still be visual clutter that ends up serving no purpose, but hopefully that will end up just being an option you can turn off or whatever. Or may not even make it into the final, I do realize it is a prototype. But as shown there it is still a whole lot better than it was... "earlier", for example in the first video linked from the Massively article.

Another positive that I only just realized was the case: a lot of the issues with previous videos seem to be resolved, and as a bonus (or maybe part of resolving it?) this one is available in glorious 720p. Still hoping we can get 1080 someday, but I realize that's less of a "boost" for more of a cost (i.e. diminishing returns).

Godling wrote:

Awesome Video.
The city reminded me of King's Row mixed with some Bricktown and a touch of Praetoria.
According to the model both hit points and mana points go up with each level.
Even though Power points or energy points might be more super heroic.

That's not our actual combat mechanic there. The developer just threw something together for his testing and this demo. It's not far off though. Still a WIP for the UI/UX and Gameplay teams.

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Shadow Elusive wrote:
Dude, it says 'many' not all. It's an open ended statement so people know not to expect everything they see, without me trying to guess and make shaky statements about which. No asset is particular, animation or otherwise, is being singled out.

Then you may need to talk to MassivelyOP, because that was a cut-and-paste from the statement as given on their site (in the article linked from the KS update).
And the "all" is the main reason I asked, because... well, it surprised me, and seemed unlikely to be true quite this soon. So I asked.

Oh wait I see, you were referring to my statement that we owned them all, not that we might not use them all. Yes, we own them all. These are mostly Unreal Market animation packs we've bought.

Shadow Elusive wrote:

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:
Dude, it says 'many' not all. It's an open ended statement so people know not to expect everything they see, without me trying to guess and make shaky statements about which. No asset is particular, animation or otherwise, is being singled out.

Then you may need to talk to MassivelyOP, because that was a cut-and-paste from the statement as given on their site (in the article linked from the KS update).
And the "all" is the main reason I asked, because... well, it surprised me, and seemed unlikely to be true quite this soon. So I asked.

Oh wait I see, you were referring to my statement that we owned them all, not that we might not use them all. Yes, we own them all. These are mostly Unreal Market animation packs we've bought.

And the goal is to have something which is visibly presentable in a video while other areas are under development. Things will be replaced before we release. But they serve the goal of enabling work to be done elsewhere without being blocked. For a prototype, they do the job.

I am highly encouraged by these vids! I felt right at home in Level 1-8 territory, LOL. I want, no, I NEED, to be playing this game naoooo. Have you released the costume creator yet? That would at least be something solid! But I don't think it's been released yet. I'm excited for Valiance Online & I've donated to them as well. But I'm still holding out for CoT :D Those are some mighty tasty, tempting looking vids--but I know the real present will come to life when CoT has the first few waves of beta tests, 'cause then I'll be there!

*Dabs eyes* So... beautiful.... CITY HALL..

Um... what sorry someone was cutting onions. As to the video looking good. I tried to help ease things on the web explaining it was leaked not meant for public release. I knew right away it was City of Titans video because I played the VO pre-alpha build and know the graphics, partial effects of both games.

My guess we find out more about the Avatar Creator very soon.

All I have to say is keep up the good work. And I say that to ALL who are involved. This is a game that will be best for what it is meant to be by taking the time you folk need to make it happen. Just be sure, at some point, if you haven't already, to plant a stake in the ground and say, THIS is the code base we will build on. Yes, we will tweak it, and update it, but doing let feature creep and 'engine improvements' force you to restart all over again.
But at the same time, keep the hooks there to be ABLE to go back and replace modules of the code with engine updates and improvements... LATER, once you have the core of the whole in place and start to enter real alpha and beta.

Again, keep up the good work!
Thrillseeker, Guardian server

desviper wrote:

Lookin' good!
I noticed on some of the burning melee that the punches do burn damage. Is that from a Boost or is that Fire Melee? Or are these irrelevant since these were leaked? :p
I hope that ice PBAoE is for realz because that is awesome!
*fanboys*

There is no 'fire melee'. Nor are the damage types or even the particle effects representative of a final state. One thing to keep in mind when watching this video is that it is of the prototype-still-in-progress. As explained in the update, the gameplay mechanics are being handled in another project. Once both projects are at a sufficient level of completion, the will be integrated.

If you look at the avatar creator screens we have apparently space for a primary secondary and tertiary lines.
Or, we may have three pallets to chose from there is a surprisingly abundance of lavenders(purple/pinks) but
a lack of Oranges. Not sure if the red button toggles through pallets or rotates the color selection or does something else.

This is more of what we need to see! I saw the videos posted before and was all "Why aren't they showing these videos so we see the progress!"

The amount of sheer confusion, speculation, and snap judgement this whole thing has generated--even after MWM clearly explained precisely where the videos came from, what they do and don't represent, and that many elements, both present and absent, are there or not there simply due to the game being incomplete--highlights exactly why they didn't show them before their hand was forced.

Still, what these videos actually represent is exciting to say the least.

Godling wrote:

If you look at the avatar creator screens we have apparently space for a primary secondary and tertiary lines.
Or, we may have three pallets to chose from there is a surprisingly abundance of lavenders(purple/pinks) but
a lack of Oranges. Not sure if the red button toggles through pallets or rotates the color selection or does something else.

The red button at the top right is a badly side button with a "?" in it. It's the help button. :) I'm still working on that. I hope to have the options button next to it.
The colors are an early stage of development; didn't you see the thread on the color picker mockup?

Brutum wrote:

Agreed, though I'm not sure if I'll ever make an obese character having the option is an excellent addition to the family of body types. Especially with concepts like The Blob as you mentioned.

Actually the obese character came from a joke about Christmas and Santa I believe but it was nice to show off what could be done.

this is very nice to see and the world itself (even for just being a test world) looks pretty damn good, imo. looking forward to seeing more! really....share more video's! :)

Brutum wrote:

Ah, regardless it was a nice update and if it makes it into the game it would be a nice addition if spruced up a bit. Happy New Years to everyone on the forums by the by.

Ditto... Happy New Year to everyone on the forums btw. ;D

Godling wrote:

So we will have a stock of base colors and the ability to do the 3 dimensional numbers too for all those that precise shade of whatever.
Can't wait till the November of the new year that's my prediction of playable test or real product will be out.

Yep.

And Happy New Years everyone!

AlienMafia wrote:

My only complaint is the shaking of the camera on every punch and it shakes too much to the point that it annoys me.
Little to no shaking on the weaker attacks and have it scale up with stronger attacks.

I agree. My brother watched the video and said "I really hope that shakiness isn't how the finished product will look"
A friend of mine assured me that most games have the shakiness as an on/off option, but I think Alien Mafia here is along my line of thinking. That said, if it were me:

-No shaking on weak attacks.
-Shaking on MAJOR attacks (like your 5-minute recharge attacks) could be fun

Outside that, I agree the video was just what I wanted for Christmas. But while I know you guys don't want to commit to an actual release date, "we might be celebrating Christmas in Titan City" was extremely heartening to me.

Thanks for the serious update! Just in time for new year!

So I took a second look at the video, taking the time to stop and look at some things in the background:

Street names: I fully understand that Dr. Tyche Road, Warcabbit Lane, AmIEvil Drive, and Gaming Drive are just placeholder names. But what they hold the place of is important. I don't see any street signs at all in CO (even though some of the streets have real-world analogs, like that curve in E. Congress Street before the I375 looks like the spot where the tutorial used to start) and I don't recall any in DCUO. I consider having in-continuity street names to be both good for immersion and for communication. I recall the first time in CO I heard that Black Harlequin was attacking at the bank... The bank the PC's use at the RenCen? One of the several banks where there are the occasional Bank Robbery instances? Even this past week I saw in chat people asking where that particular bank was at. Being able to name the corner would make things much easier. Hmm, maybe a search feature on the city map? ++++++++++++++

Ads on bus shelters: I liked that one of the ads seemed to be for Unreal. It's a good place to put real-world advertising if the devs decide to seek out advertisers. +++

The phone number on the apartment building: It might be good for immersion to find an unused area code (or codes) for Titan City. I'm not sure how many people outside the Raleigh, NC area are likely recognize the 919 area code (I didn't), or look it up (I did. I was curious, all right?), but if we can find an unused one we don't have to consider it at all. Whether or not we'd still need to keep the 555 exchange code anyway is something else to consider. =

Still hoping the AB is ready for Beta soon. But don't rush to much! ^_^

Foradain wrote:

So I took a second look at the video, taking the time to stop and look at some things in the background:
Street names: I fully understand that Dr. Tyche Road, Warcabbit Lane, AmIEvil Drive, and Gaming Drive are just placeholder names. But what they hold the place of is important. I don't see any street signs at all in CO (even though some of the streets have real-world analogs, like that curve in E. Congress Street before the I375 looks like the spot where the tutorial used to start) and I don't recall any in DCUO. I consider having in-continuity street names to be both good for immersion and for communication. I recall the first time in CO I heard that Black Harlequin was attacking at the bank... The bank the PC's use at the RenCen? One of the several banks where there are the occasional Bank Robbery instances? Even this past week I saw in chat people asking where that particular bank was at. Being able to name the corner would make things much easier. Hmm, maybe a search feature on the city map? ++++++++++++++
Ads on bus shelters: I liked that one of the ads seemed to be for Unreal. It's a good place to put real-world advertising if the devs decide to seek out advertisers. +++
The phone number on the apartment building: It might be good for immersion to find an unused area code (or codes) for Titan City. I'm not sure how many people outside the Raleigh, NC area are likely recognize the 919 area code (I didn't), or look it up (I did. I was curious, all right?), but if we can find an unused one we don't have to consider it at all. Whether or not we'd still need to keep the 555 exchange code anyway is something else to consider. =
Still hoping the AB is ready for Beta soon. But don't rush to much! ^_^

I paid attention to the street signs because Amievil treated us devs with having a few of them with our nicknames on them (I was watching for mine more obviously :p - I'm there. Yay!). I saw the leasing sign but missed the rest. I'm definitely going to watch again. Thanks for pointing all that stuff out. The dev who did it apparently hid a lot of Easter eggs. This is going to be fun. :D

I have been following this industry ever since the first time I played Pong. Decades and decades of digging up clues, locating public file servers that really should be private, and other activities both nefarious and honorable in the constant craving to know what's coming next.

I gotta say, for internal videos never designed for public release these were some of the finest early prototype efforts I have ever stumbled across. I'm glad they wound up out in the public forum. The quality of work they represent is, at least to me, quite stunning. If this follows the normal trajectory, there is no doubt in my mind it will impact the gaming world just as deeply as City of Heroes did when it was first released.

Very impressive work, MWM. Very impressive, indeed.

And the body size/shape range of the character creator is beyond awe-inspiring. This sets the bar so high I don't know how even the Asians are going to keep up. Five million different faces on four body types versus infinite body types with a few thousand possible faces is not even a contest. Once it's created, 99% of players will never again look at their character's face, but everyone who does not play in FPS view is going to spend thousands of hours staring at their character's body.

once Art’s had their wicked, wicked ways on this bare skeleton
I'd still like to get that look as a costume option. Oh the possibilities (true, mostly robots... but still).

Greyhawk wrote:

I have been following this industry ever since the first time I played Pong. Decades and decades of digging up clues, locating public file servers that really should be private, and other activities both nefarious and honorable in the constant craving to know what's coming next.
I gotta say, for internal videos never designed for public release these were some of the finest early prototype efforts I have ever stumbled across. I'm glad they wound up out in the public forum. The quality of work they represent is, at least to me, quite stunning. If this follows the normal trajectory, there is no doubt in my mind it will impact the gaming world just as deeply as City of Heroes did when it was first released.
Very impressive work, MWM. Very impressive, indeed.

I started gaming with Pong myself though most of my stuff for the longest was arcades, tabletop/pnp gaming.
And the body size/shape range of the character creator is beyond awe-inspiring. This sets the bar so high I don't know how even the Asians are going to keep up. Five million different faces on four body types versus infinite body types with a few thousand possible faces is not even a contest. Once it's created, 99% of players will never again look at their character's face, but everyone who does not play in FPS view is going to spend thousands of hours staring at their character's body.

Empyrean wrote:

The amount of sheer confusion, speculation, and snap judgement this whole thing has generated--even after MWM clearly explained precisely where the videos came from, what they do and don't represent, and that many elements, both present and absent, are there or not there simply due to the game being incomplete--highlights exactly why they didn't show them before their hand was forced.Still, what these videos actually represent is exciting to say the least.

I'll agree with this sentiment. I personally find the videos interesting anyway though and I forgot to say this but I love how City Hall and some of City looks from those videos. I definitely got flashbacks to my first time entering Paragon City.

Thanks for the video. This game is starting to look vaguely like something I want to play very soon. I would also echo the comment above about the camera shake upon punches landing. Not something I want for every attack, hope it can be turned off entirely, or maybe just used more subtly for basic attacks and then more strongly for better, more momentous, long-recharge, high damage attacks..

It's remarkable how many people have brought up "smooth" and "flow" in regards to the movement. CoH was my first and only game until it was turned off, and one thing that surprised me to varying degrees in the other games I've played is the "jerkiness" of the movement. Twitchy, jerky movement is just so ugly and unnatural looking.

So a big fat +1 to all the posts about the nice, smoothly flowing movement!

Empyrean wrote:

It's remarkable how many people have brought up "smooth" and "flow" in regards to the movement. CoH was my first and only game until it was turned off, and one thing that surprised me to varying degrees in the other games I've played is the "jerkiness" of the movement. Twitchy, jerky movement is just so ugly and unnatural looking. So a big fat +1 to all the posts about the nice, smoothly flowing movement!

+1

Some of the Issues involved in Smooth Animation:
https://youtu.be/OeYdPCbEsEQ

Im not an animator but i see there are 12 Basic Principles of Animation (2D):
https://vimeo.com/93206523

But I bet a few might relate to 3D, too. ;)

Truvidien wrote:

I was wondering is this the final version for superspeed? :)

You might be kidding, but, in case you're not, based on all that MWM has said, I"m pretty sure that none of this is the final vesrion of anything. :)

islandtrevor72 wrote:

I would much prefer MwM took a few weeks and produced a polished video showcasing the game better.

That's just the thing. They're not showcasing the game, they're showing us their progress on the game.

As for the screen shake, I assumed that was something like a fighting game setting that hadn't been turned off. It's not something I'd want happening to my screen while playing a MMO.