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Discuss: First Costume Contest

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Treed
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Discuss: First Costume Contest

A lot of people have put a lot of time into making our Character Creator, which we have also called the Avatar Builder. (We'll be testing the waters before a command decision is made on the name) But the real credit belongs with Charles Logan and Jamie 'GeeksGoneBad' Cunningham on their insanely hard work bringing the Avatar Builder together, not to mention FleshForge for his hard work on the body - as well as our various clothiers - Kaylynn and Don especially.

You have probably seen the "Make Anyone" ad campaign we've been running lately. Those have been creations made by the few people in the development loop. This time, we've asked other devs who haven't been involved in its development to test it out, try to break it, and record comments, suggestions and bugs they've discovered.

Since most users have so far spent about an hour or more for each character they've designed, we realize that we will need to provide some pre-made options to help streamline the creation process for players who may not want to spend that kind of time, or to at least plant some ideas in players' heads when they step into it. In order to provide a little incentive to participate in the testing and to take advantage of the publicity it could generate, we also decided to take this opportunity to hold a competition and publish the results of the competition. The winner would get their design included in the choices of pre-select options in the character generation process.

The voting judges were the executive board of Missing Worlds Media. Each judge voted for their three favorites, using whatever criteria they wanted. The designs with the most votes are as we showed in the update.

There is a very good chance that the next costume contest you see will be player-made submissions.

What are your thoughts and questions about it?

You can find the update here.

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I think we’ve all been

I think we’ve all been waiting so long to see something like this and now that it’s finally here, I’m really impressed!

Non-humanoid options come across as tacky to me in a sense (just personal preference) but the fact that the beetle shape was made with various bits and pieces is impressive. I appreciate the level of creativity that went into it.

It’s also nice to see the characters looking really distinctive compared to each other, can’t wait to eventually see the rest !!

Well done red names, you all should be so proud :D

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My favorite is Schwartzchild,

My favorite is Schwartzchild, but I like that Fire Beetle looks so inhuman. I am really looking forward to playing with this character builder!!!

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I’m just happy to see the

I’m just happy to see the character creator used to make good-looking characters. Coral Snake in particular looks like a legit villain, and I like how there is a subtle “M” in Mass’s costume.

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I've been looking forward to

I've been looking forward to seeing this since I saw the tweet announcing it. This looks great! I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on it and giving it a try.

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I think these examples are

I think these examples are really outstanding. To me, they are the best examples so far of well-coordinated, works-as-a-whole costumes we've seen so far. I'll be happy to play a game where I encounter characters or NPCs that look like this.

I do find it interesting that none of these costumes shows the character's face. We've seen a few faces over time, but I'd still like to see how well the CC/AB can create a non- or minimally-masked Golden Age simple spandex n' cape hero.

Also, was there any sort of coordination between contestants? I find the similarities between pairs of the winners remarkable. Fire Beetle looks like Coral Snake powered up at level 50 for a task force, and Mass kinda looks like Schwarzschild after Thankgiving dinner.

After some of the more random looking examples we've seen lately, I think these costumes will go a long way towards showing the true potential of the CC/AB. As always, I appreciate the detailed descriptions that explain some of the behind-the-scenes info so we can truly appreciate what's been done without yet getting our hands on the game.

So how will the 'first wave of backers' whom you intend to give access by the end of the year be determined?

Also, will all competitions in CoT result in one Grand Prize with everyone else tying for First? :-)

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I wanna know how Fire Beetle

I wanna know how Fire Beetle looks in motion. Seems like it might be awkward.

I also love how 3 tied for 1st place and then there's a Grand Prize Winner. :P

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Very nice. I have a hoping

Very nice. I have a hoping feeling that Christmas is when people might start getting something to toy with at last. Also the full implementation of being able to make fatter characters is definitely something I had been hoping for.

Puny Heroes.

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Beef Ninja wrote:
Beef Ninja wrote:

I wanna know how Fire Beetle looks in motion. Seems like it might be awkward.

I think that's probably my biggest concern as well. It looks good as is, but when about when he's running around? Jumping? Fighting? I have a few characters that are rather "beastly" in nature, and if they just straighten up when they fight or run around, it really breaks the reason for taking the beastly stance at all.

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Treed wrote:
Treed wrote:

You have probably seen the "Make Anyone" ad campaign we've been running lately. Those have been creations made by the few people in the development loop. This time, we've asked other devs who haven't been involved in its development to test it out, try to break it, and record comments, suggestions and bugs they've discovered.

The winner would get their design included in the choices of pre-select options in the character generation process.

The voting judges were the executive board of Missing Worlds Media. Each judge voted for their three favorites, using whatever criteria they wanted. The designs with the most votes are as we showed in the update.

Where has this ad campaign been running? I have heard about the "Make Anyone" concept in a couple threads here, but I have not heard anything about an ad campaign.

I think it posting the top three in GIF form was a good idea. Stances & auras really benefitted (from GIF) and would look a little odd in a still frame. The angle of the lighting from all three perspectives places shadows smack dab in the middle of each character's waist. Plus using black as a prominent color and or material choices make it difficult to actually "see" the character in question (I assume that is totally intentional for Schwarzschild). If you are going to have some preset examples, I would also suggest using slightly scaled back costume copies of The Paragons (like a homage or a wannabe copycat).

Would it be possible to get simple screen shots of the other submissions to get a sense for what is possible in this version of the Avatar Builder (and maybe the creative output of the devs)?

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I'm really impressed of what

I'm really impressed of what was done here, either by the chargen dev team and by the contestants :) They have a huge imagination ^^
I like, as well, seeing the different stances in the first costume !

but... i'm disturbed by the fire aura which seems just like a camp fire under the legs of the character and not a real aura around the legs, arms, chest, etc... Does this means when we fly, the aura will stay on the floor as well ? :s
Do they use the latest version of the chargen or an old version ?


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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

i'm disturb by the fire aura which seems to see just like a camp fire under the legs of the character and not a real aura around the legs, arms, chest, etc... Does this means when we fly, the aura will stay on the floor as well ? :s

Agreed, all of these auras just seem to be placed under the character.
I would want a couple more aura options:
> emanate from a point (scalable radius), in front, behind, to the side, from above
> an outline glow
> a coating of the entire character (i.e. the character is on fire, not standing on a fire), or just portions of costume / body

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Treed wrote:
Treed wrote:

What are your thoughts and questions about it?

The art department produced concept drawings of The Paragons in the Where We Stand : The Spandex update a year and a half ago. iirc MWM has mentioned that the Avatar Builder / Character Creator will be used to create the costumes for every PC / NPC in the game. Have the costumes for The Paragons been created yet? If so, can we see them?

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

i'm disturb by the fire aura which seems to see just like a camp fire under the legs of the character and not a real aura around the legs, arms, chest, etc... Does this means when we fly, the aura will stay on the floor as well ? :s

That's a fair point/question.

Planet10 wrote:

The art department produced concept drawings of The Paragons in the Where We Stand : The Spandex update a year and a half ago. iirc MWM has mentioned that the Avatar Builder / Character Creator will be used to create the costumes for every PC / NPC in the game. Have the costumes for The Paragons been created yet? If so, can we see them?

I would love to see that!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

My favorite is Schwartzchild, but I like that Fire Beetle looks so inhuman. I am really looking forward to playing with this character builder!!!

Schwartzchild was also my favorite, I really liked the Tron-like light portions against the very dark black.

I liked the difference in stances between the various characters. Will those be options to set for default body position when not in motion?

As a side-note: Will the terminology be 'Character Generator' or 'Character Creator?' The update used the term 'Character Creator' where previously and consistently referred to as 'chargen'. I honestly never liked the term 'chargen' because when it was expressed as such in all lower-case, I didn't know immediately what it was when I first read it. Of course, context clues helped me to figure it out but its just my opinion that it should be more obvious when truncating a term as to what its referring to.

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I'm going to go against the

I'm going to go against the grain here and say... I'm less than impressed.

Someone else pointed out the aura issue already, and besides the clever design of Fire Beetle being all human parts, none of these have a real wow factor to match how long we've been waiting to see more material.

To be fair, I could be just getting impatient and eager to get my hands on it, but I feel like we've seen much cooler designs in CoH and even CO. The graphics are certainly better, at least.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I do find it interesting that none of these costumes shows the character's face. We've seen a few faces over time, but I'd still like to see how well the CC/AB can create a non- or minimally-masked Golden Age simple spandex n' cape hero.

So far from among all the characters that have been shown recently this would be my only real "pseudo-criticism" so far.

For example I don't outright dislike characters like Schwartzschild or Fire Beetle because they are definitely creative and show off various cool capabilities of the Avatar Builder but they are simply not generally the type of characters I might tend to create. Again that certainly doesn't make them bad/wrong - it's just making me more impatient to see if this game can create the kind of character I might typically want to create.

As a case in point I grabbed the following "royalty free" image of a superheroine from a quick google search:

Obviously the artistic style of this pic might not match with the general style of CoT but the basic question I would wish to pose to MWM would still be relevant: Can the CoT Avatar Builder make a reasonably identical copy of this? I'm simply asking because I honestly can't recall seeing anything publicly released that's even remotely close to what ought to be a fairly "generic" version of a superhero like this.

Having a super-fancy Avatar Builder that offers millions of unique features isn't going to be worth much if it can't handle the "basics" like this.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I like Mass and Fire Beetle,

I like Mass and Fire Beetle, because they really show what the AB can do that we couldn't do in CoH. The beast stance is neat, too. It's all very impressive stuff for what was presumably these people's first crack at the AB. Can't wait to see what we'll see once a few thousand people have had the chance to mess with it for a while!

For the not so thrilling, Coral Snake shows the kind of clipping I'd really hoped we wouldn't see: the forearm goes halfway into the thigh. Also, there's definitely something up with Coral Snake's right foot. I'll also jump on board that the auras need some work. And, finally, I'm not a fan of that floating animation. That arm movement makes it look like he's hanging there, or working too hard to stay where he is. I'm sure we'll have other variants, so that's probably a minor quibble.

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I don't see your picture

I don't see your picture Lothic but as i'm on a Phone it's probably normal.


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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

I don't see your picture Lothic but as i'm on a Phone it's probably normal.

The URL for the pic is the following: https://cdn2.vectorstock.com/i/1000x1000/45/76/superheroine-standing-tall-vector-20504576.jpg

It's showing up for me - don't know what the problem could be otherwise. Basically the pic is a "totally generic" Supergirl-styled clone.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Love the characters folks.

Love the characters folks. Really looking good and I'm itching to get ahold of the CC.

My only complaint is that Issue 0 hasn't even happened yet, and somebody already took one of my names :)

(Schwarzschild Radius was my Gravity Controller in CoH) :)

Edit: [Not really a complaint, just in case you couldn't tell]

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After reading everyone's

After reading everyone's criticism and then going back and re-looking, I feel like this is encouraging as a "getting there" update.

As others have pointed out, there is a lot to clean up and costume styles that show more of the person underneath remain to be demonstrated as also looking good, but the bones are there and I assume MWM will be constantly at work busily cleaning up and improving all aspects of the game like any team on an actively developed game.

So... overall, exciting for the future :).

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

For the not so thrilling, Coral Snake shows the kind of clipping I'd really hoped we wouldn't see: the forearm goes halfway into the thigh.

I hadn't noticed that before, but I agree this is a significant issue. It's one thing to have odd combinations of costume parts raise clipping issues, but it seems to me to be a more foundational problem if a skinny, nearly-naked avatar's body has problems detecting collisions with itself. That's pretty much bone passing through bone there, something I (perhaps incorrectly) thought UE4 would prevent.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

For the not so thrilling, Coral Snake shows the kind of clipping I'd really hoped we wouldn't see: the forearm goes halfway into the thigh.

I hadn't noticed that before, but I agree this is a significant issue. It's one thing to have odd combinations of costume parts raise clipping issues, but it seems to me to be a more foundational problem if a skinny, nearly-naked avatar's body has problems detecting collisions with itself. That's pretty much bone passing through bone there, something I (perhaps incorrectly) thought UE4 would prevent.

At least we're still in the "pseudo-Alpha" (or whatever MWM is calling it) testing timeframe. I'll only be worrying about stuff like this if the game is still allowing clipping like that on launch day.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Schwartzschild is very good.

Schwartzschild is very good. I love the Jack Kirby "Dot" aura. The helmet details are tough to see but they look awesome. And I love that glowy parts available for launch.
That was a costume thread request and once again we see the Devs are listening to us. THANK YOU DEVS!

Coral Snake: I like the beast stance. and y'all are right, he does look menacing. Simple spandex design, with a great result.
The variety of stances shown in this update really excite me. Same with the backgrounds. This Chargen is going to be amazing!

Mass: Interesting character. The costume design makes him look very threatening. The face plate that would normally go on armor looks especially inhuman here and completes the villainous effect. I love the design. I suggest that if Mass becomes a stock villain, that after a few encounters you have The Kingpin don his outfit and totally surprise the players when a super strength boss/tank starts tearing up the party.

Fire Beetle: This looks like a fun villain. The armor is especially good as it breaks the human-esque mold. I would like to see physics randomly move the extra insect legs, maybe use them for firing points.
--as for the aura...we need a second fire aura for launch. the in-between-the-legs fire makes him look more like the Chili-Cookoff King, if you get my drift.

All in all, four good costumes, all worthy of Chargen winners.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I do find it interesting that none of these costumes shows the character's face. We've seen a few faces over time, but I'd still like to see how well the CC/AB can create a non- or minimally-masked Golden Age simple spandex n' cape hero.

Likely the Devs are still working on skins and faces. The devs did say they wanted to allow for expressions and that may be the hold up here: every face has to be programmable. Skin texture is different from costume textures. The look here is far more realistic than COH/CO so faces will be more complex as a result.

I would rather wait for issue Zero to have good quality skins/stock faces than to get it unfinished but early. Release of a good product ALWAYS helps future sales.
With that in mind, I challenge Dev artists to make game ready faces when the Chargen progresses that far. This might even help generate the basic characters needed for good stock faces for actual release.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I do find it interesting that none of these costumes shows the character's face. We've seen a few faces over time, but I'd still like to see how well the CC/AB can create a non- or minimally-masked Golden Age simple spandex n' cape hero.

Likely the Devs are still working on skins and faces. The devs did say they wanted to allow for expressions and that may be the hold up here: every face has to be programmable. Skin texture is different from costume textures. The look here is far more realistic than COH/CO so faces will be more complex as a result.

It's certainly possible (likely actually) that they are still working on the facial elements of the body models in general. But handling facial-based emotes would be a different thing than whether or not all the facial sliders are working properly in the Avatar Builder. Certainly there may be some overlap there, but whether or not faces are "ready" for the Avatar Builder shouldn't be completely tied to whether "facial emote expressions" are going to be a thing or not.

I'm just getting this strange feeling being able to have a "basic face" in the Avatar Builder is somehow not completely functional yet based on the proportion of examples we've seen without one. Obviously since we're still barely into the "pre-beta Issue 0" phase I wouldn't expect everything to be working regardless - it'll simply be interesting to see the state of things once Issue 0 has in fact been released.

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I really would love to see

I really would love to see what a pretty gal would look like with a big grin on her face. The realistic nature of our avatars does bring in a lot more to work with than the COH comics look. Now we have to pay a lot more attention to lipstick, eyelashes and basic make up. Thats why initially I will have to rely on the stock faces provided.

Once player artists have had a while to work with this and share their new faces in the forums, this will be a whole new ballgame. "Make Anyone" will be a unique feature to this game alone. I'm not aware of our competitors even coming close to what MWM is offering.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

After reading everyone's criticism and then going back and re-looking, I feel like this is encouraging as a "getting there" update.

As others have pointed out, there is a lot to clean up and costume styles that show more of the person underneath remain to be demonstrated as also looking good, but the bones are there and I assume MWM will be constantly at work busily cleaning up and improving all aspects of the game like any team on an actively developed game.

So... overall, exciting for the future :).

This pretty much captures my thoughts. Even with the details that need work this is still making me very excited to get my hands on the Chargen!

Keep in mind these are submissions by devs that hadn’t played with the Chargen before and only their first hours work. Frankly some of the details that need work aren’t any worse than some gripes we had with COH years after they had been up and running. Overall still a very positive update!

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I really would love to see what a pretty gal would look like with a big grin on her face. The realistic nature of our avatars does bring in a lot more to work with than the COH comics look. Now we have to pay a lot more attention to lipstick, eyelashes and basic make up. Thats why initially I will have to rely on the stock faces provided.

Once player artists have had a while to work with this and share their new faces in the forums, this will be a whole new ballgame. "Make Anyone" will be a unique feature to this game alone. I'm not aware of our competitors even coming close to what MWM is offering.

This is again why I'm hoping the "body model slider" save files feature will be a functional thing relatively early in this process. The Devs here have now told us several times that most people who have played with the Avatar Builder to create a character have spent an hour or more tinkering around with it. I don't know about anyone else but I usually don't like to go more than a few minutes without saving my progress no matter what I'm doing (whether coding, CADing, text editing or whatever).

The positive side-effect of being able to save facial sliders settings will be people being able to create perfect "celebrity faces" (i.e. Brad Pitt, Cristopher Reeves, Lynda Carter, etc.) and share them with each other. They of course don't even have to be "real people" faces - expertly crafted generic faces will likely be in demand for trade to those players who either can't or don't want to create good ones for themselves.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

I really would love to see what a pretty gal would look like with a big grin on her face. The realistic nature of our avatars does bring in a lot more to work with than the COH comics look. Now we have to pay a lot more attention to lipstick, eyelashes and basic make up. Thats why initially I will have to rely on the stock faces provided.

Once player artists have had a while to work with this and share their new faces in the forums, this will be a whole new ballgame. "Make Anyone" will be a unique feature to this game alone. I'm not aware of our competitors even coming close to what MWM is offering.

This is again why I'm hoping the "body model slider" save files feature will be a functional thing relatively early in this process. The Devs here have now told us several times that most people who have played with the Avatar Builder to create a character have spent an hour or more tinkering around with it. I don't know about anyone else but I usually don't like to go more than a few minutes without saving my progress no matter what I'm doing (whether coding, CADing, text editing or whatever).

The positive side-effect of being able to save facial sliders settings will be people being able to create perfect "celebrity faces" (i.e. Brad Pitt, Cristopher Reeves, Lynda Carter, etc.) and share them with each other. They of course don't even have to be "real people" faces - expertly crafted generic faces will likely be in demand for trade to those players who either can't or don't want to create good ones for themselves.

Yep, I am banking on that. I have zero talent for art, digital or otherwise. Sharing faces and costumes will be a big part of COT. And we have the foresight of the Devs to thank for it! This game will blow the other games out of the water!

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WOW!!! Love the beast stance.

WOW!!! Love the beast stance. I hope the animations reflect the same feral feel of it . Fire Beetle nice noice work , again hope beast stance stays during combat and animations. If this comes out by X-mas best gift ever!

The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.

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Wow! cannot wait to try this

Wow! cannot wait to try this out. I love the fire beetle one especially!

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Christmas is coming!

Christmas is coming!

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Of all these character, Fire

Of all these character, Fire Beetle would be the scariest to go up against. Devs, these guys would make some good stock villains for the game.

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I'm in the "less than

I'm in the "less than impressed camp" I guess, but it might be a difference in style: I like complicated "loud" costumes with wings and auras and shoulder missiles :p So I love fire beetle, and I like Shwartz, but I was hoping for more noise.

I agree on the clipping with Coral Snake, however, if the alternative is an assload of work to get skin-to-skin collision....I can deal :p

I don't remember my first CoH costume, but I think it'd've been the overly loud costume you'd expect of a 14 year old.

However, in "make anyone" campaign I've seen some stuff I love so I'm excited :)

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https://giant.gfycat.com

https://giant.gfycat.com/FairGleamingGlassfrog.webm|

Also, are we seeing this in Low graphics? His chest seems very low res.

https://giant.gfycat.com/BleakSentimentalIrrawaddydolphin.webm

Also, also, a critisism of the "fat slider", he's breathing up and down it seems, but his belly doesn't move at all.... It almost seems like he's just shrugging.


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The purpose of this update

The purpose of this update was to show off the results of a competition. As a result, the characters we see were picked not as representatives of any specific look or feature, but based only on their appeal to the judges.

I've read some comments regarding the lack of visible faces and of more classical costumes. It is safe to say their absence is more a product of the nature of the competition than of any shortcoming in the game tools.

Maybe I'll get a chance to show off some of the facial capabilities before issue #0. Or maybe we will wait to see what the rest of you Titans can make it do. But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

Bringing City of Titans to all the people.

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Thanks Treed, that's good to

Thanks Treed, that's good to hear. I do like what the competition produced. I still think it would help the advertising if someone at MWM were to make a really good basic hero/heroine.

Are you allowed to talk yet about how the first wave of limited access to the CC will work?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Yea like for us stupid people

Yea like for us stupid people who did not throw money at you during kickstart . Can we just have like a window to look at all the smart people having fun with issue zero

The needs of the many , far outweigh the needs of the few . Or the one.

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Treed wrote:
Treed wrote:

The purpose of this update was to show off the results of a competition. As a result, the characters we see were picked not as representatives of any specific look or feature, but based only on their appeal to the judges.

I've read some comments regarding the lack of visible faces and of more classical costumes. It is safe to say their absence is more a product of the nature of the competition than of any shortcoming in the game tools.

Maybe I'll get a chance to show off some of the facial capabilities before issue #0. Or maybe we will wait to see what the rest of you Titans can make it do. But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

It's gotta be so frustrating fighting the urge to go "yeah, well how about THIS" then the critics get shut down :p


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

It's gotta be so frustrating fighting the urge to go "yeah, well how about THIS" then the critics get shut down :p

I say don't fight it. Give into the urge!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Can't wait!

Can't wait!

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I agree with Lothic.

I agree with Lothic.

The examples shown demonstrate good versatility for the program; but they are all grotesque (in the literary sense), and not one of them exhibits a human-like face.

Faces are very important psychologically. Along with masks, and various non-/trans-/post-human faces, it should be simple to create conventionally attractive human-like faces. The difficulty of doing so in Champions Online, for example, is one big strike against that game, IMHO.

Please show us that you can do better!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Nice Update! Great job to

Nice Update! Great job to the winners! Fan of the creatuvity and ingenuity (Beetle)!

Had the same thoughts about where the Auras originated from and the clipping in beast stance. No surprise there.

On the No Faces line: I’m good without a face, kind of a default perspective on my part as every one of my CoH characters had most/all of their facial features obscured somehow. That being said...I need Others to have faces in order to have the impact felt. But I’ve seen some decent faces as it is and can’t wait for more faces to cover up!

I’d like to note the new location/ Chamber where the folks are hanging out, nice change up from the dark/neon street corner/alley.

Thank you for teasing us with the idea of a player-based costume contest, can’t wait for that either!

Meh. Bah!

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Interesting contest the Mass

Interesting contest the Mass has a decent backstory to him

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Treed wrote:
Treed wrote:

The purpose of this update was to show off the results of a competition. As a result, the characters we see were picked not as representatives of any specific look or feature, but based only on their appeal to the judges.

I've read some comments regarding the lack of visible faces and of more classical costumes. It is safe to say their absence is more a product of the nature of the competition than of any shortcoming in the game tools.

I appreciate the intent, but if you are going to "show off the results", why use a lighting & camera angle scheme that obscures so much of each character?

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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I've been envisioning a

I've been envisioning a character that looks like Mass ever since we were told we would have 'fat sliders'. To that end, I am quite pleased.

For a game made by an all-volunteer crew (and STILL made in comparable time to fully-paid, fully-staffed studios), and considering we're about to be at the very beginning of said game (does anyone really expect EVERYTHING at the very start, or that NO IMPROVEMENTS OR ADDITIONS whatsoever will be made after said start?), I am well satisfied. I have never regretted backing City of Titans, and I look forward to a quality launch.

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I really like Schwarzchild

I really like Schwarzchild the best. I am a fan of minimalist design, and I could see myself making this costume. Simple, yet with enough flair to make it interesting. I get the most inspiration from this one.

I really dig Coral Snake also. Another not-complex costume design, but the colors make sense and the use of sliders to make longer, thin limbs and beast stance really makes him creepy.

Mass is good. Costume is 'meh'; for me, but another demonstration of good slider use. He's got a look that makes him noticeable beyond just being a fat guy. You take notice of him, and the backstory fits so well.

Not a fan of Fire Beetle. I can appreciate a complex costume, but I just think 'to much' when I look at it. And there is something weird going on just to the left (our left) of his head. Looks like a grey bar with a pointy black tip? It barely moves. Is it the same thing that looks like a black cylinder coming out of his right arm in the top right image? I don't notice either of these in the top left image.

Questions:
1. So his belly is fat, but his arms just look muscular and his legs look super beefy and muscular (legs don't really look fat). Is fatness separate from musculature? And can only bellys, and not arms or legs, be fat?
2. Coral Snake. If his limbs were not stretched would he still clip? Or is it the beast stance? Or a combo?
3. The particle and flame effects. On SC they go to his chest. On FB it goes just past his head. On Mass it looks like it goes a bit higher above his head. Is this 'height' of the effect customizable, or is what I am seeing just a result of character height and stance?

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I like the feature of the "3

I like the feature of the "3 sides visuals" (I hope that's a game feature now :D) and the standing poses of Schwartzschild particularly. I hope there is a flying pose similar to that (same legs) but with crossed arms, like the one I showed you sometime ago in a suggestions thread ( https://cityoftitans.com/forum/permanent-hovering ) often used by Magneto, Black Adam and the likes (powerful flying villains).

Everything is amazing. I suggest the other forum users to read the descriptions too, Schwartzschild for example is not really glowing but it's an "illusion" of glow due to contrast (it's visible on the shoulders, where the light seems to black out when he breathes, that must be some kind of metal/reflective material creating the illusion). I love this kind of genius inputs on player's created content.

Note1: The story of "Mass" resembles the one with Doctor Light and the Teen Titans (Doctor Light was defeated by childs over and over because the Justice League made him an "idiot" breaking his mind, but he is one of the most powerful beings in DC Universe since he is capable of manipulating any energy form, he even absorbed the kryptonian solar energy within Superboy from the eyes).

Note2: Other than the large head/helm, I think Fire Beetle also reduced the size of the arms while increasing the size of the legs to make an even more non-human body.

Note3: About the collision in the serpent one, it was difficult to notice it for me and it's easily resolvable, good that you show us everything so the forum-users can point these little bugs to you already. I personally think that's nothing compared to all the good you showed to us with this update, keep it up and I'm very excited.

Note4: About the unmasked faces, I'm sure my main char will have one, I may show something as soon as I get my hands on the avatar builder (if we get permission to do so of course, depending on NDA). Lately my preferences on costumes are directed to either "Sentry" style or "Superboy Conner Kent" style, which is very t-shirt/jeans.
Both kind of heroes/styles don't have masks covering the face, so that's an important matter to me, like Lothic and the others pointing this.

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I love the costumes, but I’ll

I love the costumes, but I’ll note again that the font is horrible. It’s so bad that whoever wrote the text about Schwarzchild didn’t read the name correctly.

When the text is smaller, it’s like an eye exam. Is that “TIED” or “TIEO”? Hope your prescription is up to date.

And the kerning in “MASS” around the A is bad.

Kickstart Backer # 771

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I do find it interesting that none of these costumes shows the character's face. We've seen a few faces over time, but I'd still like to see how well the CC/AB can create a non- or minimally-masked Golden Age simple spandex n' cape hero.

So far from among all the characters that have been shown recently this would be my only real "pseudo-criticism" so far.

For example I don't outright dislike characters like Schwartzschild or Fire Beetle because they are definitely creative and show off various cool capabilities of the Avatar Builder but they are simply not generally the type of characters I might tend to create. Again that certainly doesn't make them bad/wrong - it's just making me more impatient to see if this game can create the kind of character I might typically want to create.

As a case in point I grabbed the following "royalty free" image of a superheroine from a quick google search:

Obviously the artistic style of this pic might not match with the general style of CoT but the basic question I would wish to pose to MWM would still be relevant: Can the CoT Avatar Builder make a reasonably identical copy of this? I'm simply asking because I honestly can't recall seeing anything publicly released that's even remotely close to what ought to be a fairly "generic" version of a superhero like this.

Having a super-fancy Avatar Builder that offers millions of unique features isn't going to be worth much if it can't handle the "basics" like this.

This^^^^ A thousand times this. I favor Golden / Silver age characters. While the stuff I've seen looks interesting. None of it has been of something I would create. So, can we make a Golden / Silver age character?

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I really like Schwartzschild

I really like Schwartzschild and Mass - they both look kinda like characters I have in mind. The Auras look a bit off for Schwartzschild and Red Beetle though - Red Beetle in particular looks like he's squatting over a campfire rather than it being a true "covered in flames" aura, which might leave some people unsatisfied (unless that is just one of many options we have in the builder).

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Treed wrote:
Treed wrote:

But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

Ahahahah ! That's exactly what everybody wants since some months now.
"You" (MWM) just show some pictures about characters (and only characters) and each time, people are asking for something more than that (show us some ennemis, some heros of Titan City, etc) but you don't answer their demand (or sometimes don't listen to... that's my feeling). And now that people ask for faces, you are teasing us once more.
What i'm about to say is probably too strong but i feel like we are like pigeons waiting for seeds that you throw away at your convenience. And your answer is, for me, like a snub my friend ;)
Maybe i'm reacting like that because i'm really impatient to play CoT, but all those mysteries withtout knowing when i will be able to access the game, is really frustating... Oh, i think that's it, i'm frustated... that's why i'm reacting like that i guess :/


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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:
Treed wrote:

But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

Ahahahah ! That's exactly what everybody wants since some months now.
"You" (MWM) just show some pictures about characters (and only characters) and each time, people are asking for something more than that (show us some ennemis, some heros of Titan City, etc) but you don't answer their demand (or sometimes don't listen to... that's my feeling). And now that people ask for faces, you are teasing us once more.
What i'm about to say is probably too strong but i feel like we are like pigeons waiting for seeds that you throw away at your convenience. And your answer is, for me, like a snub my friend ;)
Maybe i'm reacting like that because i'm really impatient to play CoT, but all those mysteries withtout knowing when i will be able to access the game, is really frustating... Oh, i think that's it, i'm frustated... that's why i'm reacting like that i guess :/

I know what you mean, TitansCity. I think perhaps the problem is that we are having trouble understanding MWM's marketing strategy.

Players: 'We'd very much like to see x. We're slightly concerned how x will be handled in the game.'
MWM: 'Oh, we have x. We just haven't shown you yet.'
Players: 'Um...yeah? Well, why not then?'
MWM: '...'

Maybe if we knew why the things we ask for are not being shown to us even though they're apparently already in the game it would be easier on us.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

I know what you mean, TitansCity. I think perhaps the problem is that we are having trouble understanding MWM's marketing strategy.

That's probably that indeed. i don't really know how to explain what i feel in english but i think you are touching it :)

(and once more, i'm really enjying what i see and the work made by MWM as volunteers ^^ otherwise i would not spent so much time to translate news for the french community xD ... and surprisingly, for US people which seems to need a website to gather the information of the forum ! ^^ i have about 40% of the visitors that are from the US ^^)


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I think you got your point

I think you got your point across well, and given all the work you do to promote the game in French no one can accuse you of being anything but constructive in your criticism.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
TitansCity wrote:
Treed wrote:

But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

Ahahahah ! That's exactly what everybody wants since some months now.
"You" (MWM) just show some pictures about characters (and only characters) and each time, people are asking for something more than that (show us some ennemis, some heros of Titan City, etc) but you don't answer their demand (or sometimes don't listen to... that's my feeling). And now that people ask for faces, you are teasing us once more.
What i'm about to say is probably too strong but i feel like we are like pigeons waiting for seeds that you throw away at your convenience. And your answer is, for me, like a snub my friend ;)
Maybe i'm reacting like that because i'm really impatient to play CoT, but all those mysteries withtout knowing when i will be able to access the game, is really frustating... Oh, i think that's it, i'm frustated... that's why i'm reacting like that i guess :/

I know what you mean, TitansCity. I think perhaps the problem is that we are having trouble understanding MWM's marketing strategy.

Players: 'We'd very much like to see x. We're slightly concerned how x will be handled in the game.'
MWM: 'Oh, we have x. We just haven't shown you yet.'
Players: 'Um...yeah? Well, why not then?'
MWM: '...'

Maybe if we knew why the things we ask for are not being shown to us even though they're apparently already in the game it would be easier on us.

I was actually just thinking the same thing the other day. This is some of the worst, or at least hardest to understand, marketing I've ever seen.
From what we understand, kickstarter backers are getting access very soon. Second chance kickstarter is right around the corner. And all we've got is a few (and I hate to say it) underwhelming gifs. I would think there'd be some tailored screenshots, maybe a video or two showing things off and including the relevant websites/dates. Stuff to put out on social media and youtube. Should be drumming up interest, showing off the goods.

When you say "I have lots of cool things, but I'm not gonna show it" makes people think that no, you don't actually have anything, and does not get them hooked on what you're selling.

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:
Treed wrote:

The purpose of this update was to show off the results of a competition. As a result, the characters we see were picked not as representatives of any specific look or feature, but based only on their appeal to the judges.

I've read some comments regarding the lack of visible faces and of more classical costumes. It is safe to say their absence is more a product of the nature of the competition than of any shortcoming in the game tools.

Maybe I'll get a chance to show off some of the facial capabilities before issue #0. Or maybe we will wait to see what the rest of you Titans can make it do. But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

It's gotta be so frustrating fighting the urge to go "yeah, well how about THIS" then the critics get shut down :p

Cinnder wrote:

I say don't fight it. Give into the urge!

*whispering to desviper and Cinnder* Be quiet dudes, I think I almost annoyed Treed into doing something like that just so he could "shut me up". ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I'm thinking the status of "x

I'm thinking the status of "x" changes very quickly. Also we don't have a full time marketing staff to develop a plan and execute on contingencies as "x" changes. The resulting experience for most of us may be a bit disjointed or even jarring, but it's enough to know that progress is being made.

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A couple of thoughts:

A couple of thoughts:

1) There was some concern among a few here that the look of the game would be too realistic. I think what we've seen from the costume contest is very much a genre-compatible look that is easy enough to get a comic book feel out of--though again we haven't seen a well done iconic small or no mask/spandex looking hero yet. Still, from what we've seen I don't see any reason that it couldn't be done well.

2) On the marketing front, due to the modular nature and the pre-alpha status of development, I doubt that there is that much that is truly marketing-ready, and, even if there is, MWM probably don't consider themselves even in the marketing phase yet.

Anyway, all IMHO, YMMV, void where prohibited :P. I may well be incorrect in some of my assumptions, this is just based on what I've seen and heard. If I've missed a salient piece of info somewhere, by bad.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Thanks Treed, that's good to hear. I do like what the competition produced. I still think it would help the advertising if someone at MWM were to make a really good basic hero/heroine.

I think that's a fair recommendation/ask.
I 'd love to see Codebreaker, Liege or Ty Fischer in the CC very soon...and, of course, Anthem : )

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Catherine America wrote:
Catherine America wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Thanks Treed, that's good to hear. I do like what the competition produced. I still think it would help the advertising if someone at MWM were to make a really good basic hero/heroine.

I think that's a fair recommendation/ask.
I 'd love to see Codebreaker, Liege or Ty Fischer in the CC very soon...and, of course, Anthem : )

+1 to all of this!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

2) On the marketing front, due to the modular nature and the pre-alpha status of development, I doubt that there is that much that is truly marketing-ready, and, even if there is, MWM probably don't consider themselves even in the marketing phase yet.

I also thought along the same lines, but when they say things like:

Treed wrote:

You have probably seen the "Make Anyone" ad campaign we've been running lately.

I have to wonder what it is that they are doing.

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It's nice to see some of the

It's nice to see some of the range the Avatar Builder is able to produce, and the winners pictured do look very cool; I can understand why they might have stood out, and been chosen by the judges. They aren't, however, the sort of characters I'm likely to create -- I suppose Schwarzchild probably comes the closest.

I tend toward simple, distinctive and minimalist designs. In CoH, almost none of my characters were masked, and they often wore variations on the traditional spandex, or some kind of basic street clothing. I did a lot with colors and patterns... some of the more basic hairstyles... but very little with armor or robotics or spiky shoulders or anything of that sort. I seriously doubt I'll make much use the body sliders -- once I've got a body type that I'm happy with, I'll probably stick with it for most of my characters, aside from some slight adjustments here or there.

So personally, I'm less concerned with what spectacular things can be created at the extremes, than in what distinctive appearances can be crafted with a classic or minimalist look. Now, I don't have any doubt that the MWM art team have got that well-covered, and I realize that such things don't generally have the sort of "wow" factor that wins contests or makes for good advertising copy. So I'm not at all worried about it, but I am eager to get in there and start exploring what can be achieved with classic simplicity.

These contest winners are much more the sort of folks I'd like to fight, than the sort of folks I'd like to BE. I think it's great that the builder has the flexibility to do so much, even if I won't probably use it myself. But what I'm eagerly waiting for is the chance to explore the less spectacular middle ground.

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The only character creator

The only character creator that was close to what you have provided was in the anime Overlord.
And their character creator does not come out til 2100.

Stealing technology from a an alternate universe wit different laws of physics and from the future.
I see the kickstarter money has been wisely invested and has put many corporate and government budgets to shame.

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Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

The only character creator that was close to what you have provided was in the anime Overlord.
And their character creator does not come out til 2100.

Stealing technology from a an alternate universe wit different laws of physics and from the future.
I see the kickstarter money has been wisely invested and has put many corporate and government budgets to shame.

I love that show! :)

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Catherine America wrote:
Catherine America wrote:

I think that's a fair recommendation/ask.
I 'd love to see Codebreaker, Liege or Ty Fischer in the CC very soon...and, of course, Anthem : )

Actually, getting the Paragons in the character creator would be a really good marketing strategy, since they're some of the characters you're going to end up interacting with a lot. Not really appropriate for this thread, though, so I'm gonna go put that as its own suggestion on the Suggestions Forum.

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:
Cinnder wrote:
TitansCity wrote:
Treed wrote:

But either way, we've already got so much you just haven't seen yet. And there are still more capabilities to come.

Ahahahah ! That's exactly what everybody wants since some months now.
"You" (MWM) just show some pictures about characters (and only characters) and each time, people are asking for something more than that (show us some ennemis, some heros of Titan City, etc) but you don't answer their demand (or sometimes don't listen to... that's my feeling). And now that people ask for faces, you are teasing us once more.
What i'm about to say is probably too strong but i feel like we are like pigeons waiting for seeds that you throw away at your convenience. And your answer is, for me, like a snub my friend ;)
Maybe i'm reacting like that because i'm really impatient to play CoT, but all those mysteries withtout knowing when i will be able to access the game, is really frustating... Oh, i think that's it, i'm frustated... that's why i'm reacting like that i guess :/

I know what you mean, TitansCity. I think perhaps the problem is that we are having trouble understanding MWM's marketing strategy.

Players: 'We'd very much like to see x. We're slightly concerned how x will be handled in the game.'
MWM: 'Oh, we have x. We just haven't shown you yet.'
Players: 'Um...yeah? Well, why not then?'
MWM: '...'

Maybe if we knew why the things we ask for are not being shown to us even though they're apparently already in the game it would be easier on us.

I was actually just thinking the same thing the other day. This is some of the worst, or at least hardest to understand, marketing I've ever seen.
From what we understand, kickstarter backers are getting access very soon. Second chance kickstarter is right around the corner. And all we've got is a few (and I hate to say it) underwhelming gifs. I would think there'd be some tailored screenshots, maybe a video or two showing things off and including the relevant websites/dates. Stuff to put out on social media and youtube. Should be drumming up interest, showing off the goods.

When you say "I have lots of cool things, but I'm not gonna show it" makes people think that no, you don't actually have anything, and does not get them hooked on what you're selling.

Moot point. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. I agree with you, but it doesnt matter.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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I can think of a good reason

I can think of a good reason why they haven't shown many faces. It's actually very difficult to create good-looking faces without sliding into the Uncanny Valley.

But why not just say that up front?

Given the incredible challenges that the devs here are in the process of overcoming, it would not be a defeat to admit that slider-based faces may have to wait until later, and instead provide a broad field of face pre-sets for launch.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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So, I don't have any issues

So, I don't have any issues with the characters shown, though I can understand and sympathize with many of the arguments in this thread.

What I'm not at all certain about is that any of those designs should be a preset (though I suppose Schwarzchild or even Mass wouldn't be bad options for presets) for the character generator. They're mostly too distinctive, whereas a preset should be a common template upon which distinctive heroes can be quickly built. While Fire Beetle is an impressive design and deserved to win a contest, he is also hands-down the worst option for a preset

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DariusWolfe wrote:
DariusWolfe wrote:

While Fire Beetle is an impressive design and deserved to win a contest, he is also hands-down the worst option for a preset

I whole-heartedly agree with Darius! Some of us may have been thinking this, but Thank You for saying it!

Maybe, just maybe, the Grand Prize should be modified to include the Winning Design as an NPC/Villian/Contact (like in a dark, neon lit alley...cuz he’s creepy like that)

Ask the winner, that may be cooler than a Preset...

Meh. Bah!

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I agree, It's a terribly

I agree, It's a terribly preset. Presets should be fairly generic and recognizable, because their purpose is to give noobies something to start on.

I vote villain contact.


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Sorry, but while a good

Sorry, but while a good detail, the winners are... bland. I know I'm weird, but Here's a couple of my characters ripped from another game:

http://www.immortalmusic.net/Demi%20SC1.jpg
http://www.immortalmusic.net/DynaSC6-5.jpg

I am glad you got something, but am still holding out for more details ;)

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Maybe this isn't tonally

Maybe this isn't tonally sensitive, but that second one is pretty simple too...


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Not to focus on faces but I

Not to focus on faces but I would like to see a smiling hero, and an evil grin on a villain.
so far all the faces have been serious.
Maybe we could do an expressions update...with some wild hair as well

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Looking at the auras they


Looking at the auras they each have something in common. They emanate not from the character, but from the ground at the character's feet. Thats why the firebug guy with fire between his legs. The aura needs to generate from the torso and be a bit wider in effect.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:


Looking at the auras they each have something in common. They emanate not from the character, but from the ground at the character's feet. Thats why the firebug guy with fire between his legs. The aura needs to generate from the torso and be a bit wider in effect.

The version of the CC/AB being used is not a beta version. It is Allpha, and the auras are representative of something that worked in prototype and will get better as the CC/AB is iterated. Auras will be connected to sockets and the associated locations will be selectable in the UI.

Faces do exist. There are presets already done and more being worked on. There is sooo much that can be done with faces .


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The version of the CC/AB being used is not a beta version. It is Allpha, and the auras are representative of something that worked in prototype and will get better as the CC/AB is iterated. Auras will be connected to sockets and the associated locations will be selectable in the UI.

Faces do exist. There are presets already done and more being worked on. There is sooo much that can be done with faces .

1) Ah, this is still in Alpha. Understood. Now its making sense.
2) Thanks for the news on the faces. I was starting to worry. As always you guys are a step ahead of me.

eagerly awaiting the next update.
PS, thanks to Tannim and the Devs for always being there with a quick answer!

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Yeah I had thought this was

Yeah I had thought this was nearly the beta we'd be playing with in coming months, now I understand.

When're the "Dev of the Year Awards: People's Choice" and when can I vote for Tannim :p


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Auras are still very quick

Auras are still very quick and dirty. Other parts are more sophisticated.

There's nothing casual or quick about making a contest winner part of canon. Somebody else suggested it internally, we had to repeatedly assure Lore we weren't going to do that to them.

On Fire Beetle as a Preset. Is it useful for design? Well not for someone who wants to enter the game with a variation on a preset design. But it is good immortality and does not mean you won't have the same number of more useful presets. Heck, maybe in time we'll give that kind of thing its own preset category, a subset for the snazzy and unique. Perhaps we'll call it something implying it is there to suggest how advanced a design can be. Expert, perhaps. Something to show how deep the rabbit hole goes and inspire them to go for broke. We'll see. It's early days, that kind of thing is flexible. The important part is that just because we're putting in Fire Beetle doesn't mean you won't have plenty of practical ones, or that practical ones will not be the norm. There's a number of such designs in there already. Perhaps we'll show those sometime, but...there's more to show than we have time (or manpower) to show. Some things will have to wait till you have it.

I was a bit disappointed myself that so many simpler designs won, but just as many here are pretty happy to see them. Faces? Also a coincidence of voting. We'll be releasing a face/female face/ethnic face make anyone soon, that should reassure anyone who sees it.

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Thank you Shadow. I found

Thank you Shadow. I found everything in that post reasonable and reassuring. (And amusing, when picturing Lore's reaction to the idea of adding another character to canon!)

Spurn all ye kindle.

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More specifically, having one

More specifically, having one added via the highly random factor of 'which design made by who knows who got the most votes'. They did not like this idea. Luckily I hadn't actually been in favor of it.

Also. About Schwartzchild. I apologize. The same person wrote that as made the graphic, me. It's not a matter of reading it. It's just that I'm Jewish and Schwartz is a jewish last name, I know several and a friend and former classmate is named Schwartz. Every time I typed that damn word I'd try to write Schwartz, and it looks like it happened in the writeup and nobody noticed. I've fixed it now. The T just feels too natural in there, my fingers put it in for me.

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Apparently the Schwartz is

Apparently the Schwartz is strong in you. ;-)

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

More specifically, having one added via the highly random factor of 'which design made by who knows who got the most votes'. They did not like this idea. Luckily I hadn't actually been in favor of it.

Also. About Schwartzchild. I apologize. The same person wrote that as made the graphic, me. It's not a matter of reading it. It's just that I'm Jewish and Schwartz is a jewish last name, I know several and a friend and former classmate is named Schwartz. Every time I typed that damn word I'd try to write Schwartz, and it looks like it happened in the writeup and nobody noticed. I've fixed it now. The T just feels too natural in there, my fingers put it in for me.

What is funny is that Schwarz means Black in German ^^


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Yeah presets should be very

Yeah presets should be very simple and easily readable for the newbs. Preset costumes should also have the base for what need to be done so you can look at it and think about what you want to add. A secret agent preset should be someone in a business suit with sunglasses, a wizard should be someone in generic robes with a hood, stuff like that, and if these costume contest winners are made into presets they should be counted as way less than the many generic presets that are already in the game.

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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I'll be the counter

I'll be the counter-contrarian and say that fire beetle is a useful preset. It sounds like a lot of people want to make presets very basic. I think that is something like an easy-mode. Flip to easy change some color or textures and a body dimension and play. Now imagine what happens when you open hard-mode fire beetle preset. You don't know what to do with that. You start to EXPLORE all the sliders and settings that allowed the AB (my vote is for AB over CC) to generate something so monstrous. At then end the user is more well versed in the AB and their next forray will be much more informed and allow them to twist, paint, and slide a new character into being that much more interesting and diverse than they would if only given easy-mode presets.

I'd also really like to see some of the characters from the lore show up in the AB. Particularly the lead heroes. Or if those are being saved until all the bugs are worked out to avoid setting them in stone, then the dev characters. Since those characters wont be critical I think it would be great to see them generated. Either set of characters would go a long way to showing the capability of the AB to generate an image with which the user base is already somewhat familiar. The characters that won the contest do a good job of showing one extreme end of the spectrum. I think a few of the other images from the AB on the instagram show the other end of the spectrum, but enough is never enough.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I'll be the counter-contrarian and say that fire beetle is a useful preset. It sounds like a lot of people want to make presets very basic. I think that is something like an easy-mode. Flip to easy change some color or textures and a body dimension and play. Now imagine what happens when you open hard-mode fire beetle preset. You don't know what to do with that. You start to EXPLORE all the sliders and settings that allowed the AB (my vote is for AB over CC) to generate something so monstrous. At then end the user is more well versed in the AB and their next forray will be much more informed and allow them to twist, paint, and slide a new character into being that much more interesting and diverse than they would if only given easy-mode presets.

I definitely see the advantage you point out here.

I tend to make characters with subtle costumes more often than not but this is a great way to really explore what can be done with the creation tools, which I hadn’t fully considered until you pointed it out. A springboard from which to jump.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I'll be the counter-contrarian and say that fire beetle is a useful preset. It sounds like a lot of people want to make presets very basic. I think that is something like an easy-mode. Flip to easy change some color or textures and a body dimension and play. Now imagine what happens when you open hard-mode fire beetle preset. You don't know what to do with that. You start to EXPLORE all the sliders and settings that allowed the AB (my vote is for AB over CC) to generate something so monstrous. At then end the user is more well versed in the AB and their next forray will be much more informed and allow them to twist, paint, and slide a new character into being that much more interesting and diverse than they would if only given easy-mode presets.

I'd also really like to see some of the characters from the lore show up in the AB. Particularly the lead heroes. Or if those are being saved until all the bugs are worked out to avoid setting them in stone, then the dev characters. Since those characters wont be critical I think it would be great to see them generated. Either set of characters would go a long way to showing the capability of the AB to generate an image with which the user base is already somewhat familiar. The characters that won the contest do a good job of showing one extreme end of the spectrum. I think a few of the other images from the AB on the instagram show the other end of the spectrum, but enough is never enough.

Why not both? Have these presets here and then have a bunch of generic ones. That way if someone goes "I want to make a cowboy" they can load up the cowboy preset, but if they want to go "I want to familiarize myself more with the character creator" they can load up fire beetle

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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I understand the concept that

I understand the concept that presets should, to some extent, show a basic example of a concept but would it also not be good to show some examples of what you can create if you go above and beyond? Maybe presets should also state the items/colours/etc used so a basic preset may have only 5 items but an above and beyond has 12 (numbers purely for example).

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You know....that's a good

You know....that's a good argument, Grim!


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