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Discuss: Design Evolution: UI Avatar Builder

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JWBullfrog
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Discuss: Design Evolution: UI Avatar Builder

Read the full update here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/design-evolution-ui-avatar-builder

Thanks goes out to Zack 'ShadowElusive' Singer for taking the time to put this update together.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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Interesting news about the

Interesting news about the Avatar Builder's UI.
The last version we have is really good to me. And I like it. Thanks for the good work Elusive.

But something still disturbe me... The last information we had about the beta (Issue 0) was that it was planned for December. However, you were 3 months late because of a technical problem...
We are 7 months after and we have still nothing about it ... or about the Second Chance (2nd Crowfunding)...

But Well, SuperJoe looks good and The Alpha Frontiersman is fun ^^

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This looks amazing! I have

This looks amazing! I have been joining the thousands of people rekindling their love of the original but seeing these updates really gets me excited to play this game. Keep up the good work and hopefully you open the 2nd Kickstarter soon so we can give you the resources to get this released.

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I am loving the look of the

I am loving the look of the Avatar Builder! While obviously not complete, it's at a great place so far and I can't wait to get my hands on it and spend hours and hours playing around. ^_^

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I can see spending a lot of

I can see spending a lot of time with this UI.. Keep up the good work!

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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I like the avatar builder,

I like the avatar builder, but I too am interested in hear any news about release

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U and I make a Team! <3

U and I make a Team! <3

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cloganart wrote:
cloganart wrote:

U and I make a Team! <3

+1

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I love the personal story

I love the personal story talking about the challenges to get it going. It humanizes the project and reminds us that this is being made by people who have setbacks, and it’s also a reminder of how much work goes into it.

Now... When do we get to test this out for you...? ;)

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It looks great!

It looks great!

The Phoenix emblem in the back is a little distracting. It almost looks like it's part of the costume in those stills.
It will probably look better in the live chargen when I can rotate the toon.

"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."

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Riptide wrote:
Riptide wrote:

It looks great!

The Phoenix emblem in the back is a little distracting. It almost looks like it's part of the costume in those stills.
It will probably look better in the live chargen when I can rotate the toon.

No, I agree. It's incredibly distracting and way too dark to properly fade into the background like it should. I think it needs to be removed. City of Heroes puts up a city skyline background on its character creator and other similar windows, not a huge emblem like that, and there's a good reason for it. It's distracting and interferes with the design process. The entire point of using that blank background option is to see what your character looks like in a vacuum. It's good to have that alternate option that shows an interior so you can get a better idea of how lighting in a scene will interact with the look of your character, but having a great big honking logo in the "blank background" view defeats the purpose.

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Great update! I agree there

Great update! I agree there is room for improvement but the UI has come a long way from the first examples.

I too like to hear about the ups and downs of the people working on the project. It helps me stay grounded when I start getting anxious for the Chargen release!

"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle

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Captain Citadel wrote:
Captain Citadel wrote:
Riptide wrote:

It looks great!

The Phoenix emblem in the back is a little distracting. It almost looks like it's part of the costume in those stills.
It will probably look better in the live chargen when I can rotate the toon.

No, I agree. It's incredibly distracting and way too dark to properly fade into the background like it should. I think it needs to be removed. City of Heroes puts up a city skyline background on its character creator and other similar windows, not a huge emblem like that, and there's a good reason for it. It's distracting and interferes with the design process. The entire point of using that blank background option is to see what your character looks like in a vacuum. It's good to have that alternate option that shows an interior so you can get a better idea of how lighting in a scene will interact with the look of your character, but having a great big honking logo in the "blank background" view defeats the purpose.

You're not alone in seeing that. Something that is planned for the build screen is a choice of backgrounds. The phoenix wings are just the default option. The office background is intended to be another one of those, and we're planning at least one 'Blank' option as well.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:
Captain Citadel wrote:
Riptide wrote:

It looks great!

The Phoenix emblem in the back is a little distracting. It almost looks like it's part of the costume in those stills.
It will probably look better in the live chargen when I can rotate the toon.

No, I agree. It's incredibly distracting and way too dark to properly fade into the background like it should. I think it needs to be removed. City of Heroes puts up a city skyline background on its character creator and other similar windows, not a huge emblem like that, and there's a good reason for it. It's distracting and interferes with the design process. The entire point of using that blank background option is to see what your character looks like in a vacuum. It's good to have that alternate option that shows an interior so you can get a better idea of how lighting in a scene will interact with the look of your character, but having a great big honking logo in the "blank background" view defeats the purpose.

You're not alone in seeing that. Something that is planned for the build screen is a choice of backgrounds. The phoenix wings are just the default option. The office background is intended to be another one of those, and we're planning at least one 'Blank' option as well.

If you can change it to something more neutral that’s good.

Literally every time I see a screenshot of a character in the avatar builder I think at first it has wings. Every. Single. Time.

Kind of like this:

IMAGE(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/3c/a4/a33ca40c355deb380a8a7245edcc9b3f.jpg)

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

Something that is planned for the build screen is a choice of backgrounds. The phoenix wings are just the default option. The office background is intended to be another one of those, and we're planning at least one 'Blank' option as well.

Would one option be a green screen? ^_^

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I think we talked about that.

I think we talked about that. I don't recall if that has become official or not.

MWM Editor- Public Relations Team Lead -All Purpose Frog

Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.

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It was kinda shown in the

It was kinda shown in the last Avatar Builder update which focused more on the costume than the UI.


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Changing the default to not

Changing the default to not have the logo, or to fade it out a lot, has been discussed before, we agree it's a problem as is. Just hard to say when we'll get to that particular thing.

--------------------------

Interior Map Lead and UI Designer
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I had forgotten about this

I had forgotten about this game. How long has it been since the last update? I feel like it’s been ages.
I’m no marketing expert, but you guys need to get a handle on things before everyone loses interest.

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

I had forgotten about this game. How long has it been since the last update? I feel like it’s been ages.
I’m no marketing expert, but you guys need to get a handle on things before everyone loses interest.

Update is a loose term here. Only 2 weeks since one of there 'one-shots'. From a front page official update, 5 weeks. There really isn't a schedule they go by anymore.

As far as marketing...I agree and disagree. They only need to really push leading up to the 2nd Chance...that's ultimately all that matters right now, Because if that doesn't do good, it won't be good. So as frustrating as things are right now, nothing is 'happening' from our perspective to really need to push marketing.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Love the battle brother

Love the battle brother silhouette XD

Have a nice day!

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The idea was to design around

The idea was to design around a very bulky silhouette, a 'worst case scenario' if you will. Make sure everything fit nicely for the biggest guy and it would work the rest of the time.

--------------------------

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Keep up the good work all

Keep up the good work all

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Hey guys, I have a request ..

Hey guys, I have a request ...
Can we see who's the character totaly in black on the first picture (the one where the UI looks a lot like City of Heroes).
You hide him in a shadow but we want to see him ! Please :)

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

Changing the default to not have the logo, or to fade it out a lot, has been discussed before, we agree it's a problem as is. Just hard to say when we'll get to that particular thing.

Fade it out is a good solution, like it being less in contrast. But I have another suggestion: put it under the feet, in the 3d podium, so you still got the phoenix symbol and no "wings" feeling.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Update is a loose term here. Only 2 weeks since one of there 'one-shots'. From a front page official update, 5 weeks. There really isn't a schedule they go by anymore . . .

No Schedule That YOU are aware of. Internally I'm sure that they do indeed have one. However, they are not beholden to reveal to you or anyone outside of the workplace.

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StellarAgent wrote:
StellarAgent wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Update is a loose term here. Only 2 weeks since one of there 'one-shots'. From a front page official update, 5 weeks. There really isn't a schedule they go by anymore . . .

No Schedule That YOU are aware of. Internally I'm sure that they do indeed have one. However, they are not beholden to reveal to you or anyone outside of the workplace.

Well, the 'schedule' they told us was every 2 weeks, alternating between large and small updates.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Can we see more on the actual

Can we see more on the actual game portion of the game, wherein one fights solo or as a team against environment or player enemies?

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fenianb wrote:
fenianb wrote:

Can we see more on the actual game portion of the game, wherein one fights solo or as a team against environment or player enemies?

I’d love to see that too but I don’t know if that’s possible.

They seem to be building this game the way you might build a bike. You create each piece as you go and the bike isn’t assembled until the end. So you make the frame, and the wheels, and the handlebars, the seat, and so on.

If someone wants to see progress, you show them the seat you designed; demonstrate the gel cushioning, the ergonomic shape, the ability to adjust height and pitch, the quick-release feature, and so on.

If someone wants to see you riding the bike around, you can’t. Not until it’s nearly finished. The pieces all have to be ready before you can put it all together.

Game design isn’t always done that way. Sometimes you throw together a crappy game that’s fully functional but low quality because it’s fast, then you go back and change things. I’ve done that before myself. But I believe that the way MWM is doing it will work better than my amateurish efforts were with games.

Remember that the “Issue 0” release we’re eagerly waiting for still won’t have the things in it you want to see. No combat, no missions, or even powers. Not that those things aren’t being worked on but what they show us now may look like hot garbage (so does a cake while it’s being made) or otherwise might not yet resemble what they plan to release.

But I do agree that if such things were possible I’d love to see them. We’ve only seen really, really rough prototypes from years ago.

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Combat is not ready yet.

Combat is not ready yet. Issue #0 will consist of character creation, chat, and an Island to run around on.

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OK. Can we see more

OK. Can we see more information on the status of people actually running around an island and chatting then? If that's what Issue #0 will be where's that progress on that?

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fenianb wrote:
fenianb wrote:

OK. Can we see more information on the status of people actually running around an island and chatting then? If that's what Issue #0 will be where's that progress on that?

There’s a part of me that thinks they’re hoping we all forget they promised this to us seven months ago

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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I want the character creator,

I want the character creator, I think we would make events here with best costumes (or roleplay threads with their stories) for months :D

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:
fenianb wrote:

OK. Can we see more information on the status of people actually running around an island and chatting then? If that's what Issue #0 will be where's that progress on that?

There’s a part of me that thinks they’re hoping we all forget they promised this to us seven months ago

Everyone would be happier if we all forgot about that lol

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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OK. read the update. the

OK. read the update. the faces and skin tones are a 100% improved. I love the UI. Everything has improved.
Now a challenge: I want to see a close up of a beautiful female face.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
fenianb wrote:

Can we see more on the actual game portion of the game, wherein one fights solo or as a team against environment or player enemies?

I’d love to see that too but I don’t know if that’s possible.

They seem to be building this game the way you might build a bike. You create each piece as you go and the bike isn’t assembled until the end. So you make the frame, and the wheels, and the handlebars, the seat, and so on.

If someone wants to see progress, you show them the seat you designed; demonstrate the gel cushioning, the ergonomic shape, the ability to adjust height and pitch, the quick-release feature, and so on.

If someone wants to see you riding the bike around, you can’t. Not until it’s nearly finished. The pieces all have to be ready before you can put it all together.

Game design isn’t always done that way. Sometimes you throw together a crappy game that’s fully functional but low quality because it’s fast, then you go back and change things. I’ve done that before myself. But I believe that the way MWM is doing it will work better than my amateurish efforts were with games.

Remember that the “Issue 0” release we’re eagerly waiting for still won’t have the things in it you want to see. No combat, no missions, or even powers. Not that those things aren’t being worked on but what they show us now may look like hot garbage (so does a cake while it’s being made) or otherwise might not yet resemble what they plan to release.

But I do agree that if such things were possible I’d love to see them. We’ve only seen really, really rough prototypes from years ago.

Beautiful analogy!


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It's funny: I really love the

It's funny: I really love the first and last designs, and dislike only the ones in the middle of the process. If I had to give one the edge over the other, it would actually be the original one, but that's probably mostly my fondness for the old game showing through. I have to admit the current design looks more modern.

DesViper wrote:
Atama wrote:

...They seem to be building this game the way you might build a bike...

Beautiful analogy!

Agreed!

Spurn all ye kindle.

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JWBullfrog wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

Read the full update here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/design-evolution-ui-avatar-builder.

Thanks goes out to Zack 'ShadowElusive' Singer for taking the time to put this update together.

Please edit the link to remove the "." (period)

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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It is nice to see the

It is nice to see the prototyping process. The current state looks good. I like the light sources in the ring down by the feet.

One thing I would like to be able to do in that UI is be able to swing the camera around and zoom in/out.
In most character creator environments that I have seen, "rotating the camera" is just rotating the avatar. The background shots in a few of the mockups make it look like a 3D environment (a TV studio set backdrop). I think it could help cement the 'reality' of the character if you could move the camera around the avatar and actually see the environment swing around as your perspective changes.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

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If they can't do unlimited

If they can't do unlimited rotation in the AB, another option is to give us unlimited costume changes during the beta process, until we all get a feel for how things look and react to changing light conditions.

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Could do that at the very

Could do that at the very beginning of the game too. i.e. you have 24 hrs to tweak your costume until it "looks just right'.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:
JWBullfrog wrote:

Read the full update here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/design-evolution-ui-avatar-builder.

Thanks goes out to Zack 'ShadowElusive' Singer for taking the time to put this update together.

Please edit the link to remove the "." (period)

I gotchu


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ThunderCAP wrote:
ThunderCAP wrote:

I want the character creator, I think we would make events here with best costumes (or roleplay threads with their stories) for months :D

Apparently the character creator cannot be released on its own due to their deal with Epic.

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fenianb wrote:
fenianb wrote:

Apparently the character creator cannot be released on its own due to their deal with Epic.

What kind of disjointed handicapped deal did they make that gimped the way they can release their product??

Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...

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Zerohour wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

What kind of disjointed handicapped deal did they make that gimped the way they can release their product??

Per Update 236 (May 16, 2019): "Why haven’t you shown off a tech demo of [thing] yet? I want to see [thing] in action! There’s really two answers to that. First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately. It’s also why we can’t just release the Avatar Builder for people to play with. That’s part of why Issue 0 is so important!

"Second, a lot of what goes into game development is very un-sexy backend programming and organization. It’s mostly not fun to look at. And, as we’ve discovered, sometimes showing off something uninteresting to our audience can be worse than showing nothing at all. We’re committed to doing an excellent job and are hard at work putting together all the necessary components for City of Titans to truly come alive."

What the specifics of the deal are I don't know.

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fenianb wrote:
fenianb wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

What kind of disjointed handicapped deal did they make that gimped the way they can release their product??

Per Update 236 (May 16, 2019): "Why haven’t you shown off a tech demo of [thing] yet? I want to see [thing] in action! There’s really two answers to that. First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately. It’s also why we can’t just release the Avatar Builder for people to play with. That’s part of why Issue 0 is so important!

"Second, a lot of what goes into game development is very un-sexy backend programming and organization. It’s mostly not fun to look at. And, as we’ve discovered, sometimes showing off something uninteresting to our audience can be worse than showing nothing at all. We’re committed to doing an excellent job and are hard at work putting together all the necessary components for City of Titans to truly come alive."

What the specifics of the deal are I don't know.

Wasn't the deal made back in either 2012 or when they switched engines in what, 2013? Last year they kept saying there were trying to get at least the AB out to fans before Issue #0. This seems very odd. It's also confusing what Issue #0 will be if what they release has to be a 'complete release'. Since obviously Issue 0 is NOT a complete release...no missions, no combat, etc...arguably the biggest portions of the game. It's disconcerting that they are still in legal limbo as to what they can actually release. How did they not about this last year when they kept telling us they would get us at least the AB if not Issue #0? Empty promises to keep us engaged?

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Wasn't the deal made back in either 2012 or when they switched engines in what, 2013? Last year they kept saying there were trying to get at least the AB out to fans before Issue #0. This seems very odd. It's also confusing what Issue #0 will be if what they release has to be a 'complete release'. Since obviously Issue 0 is NOT a complete release...no missions, no combat, etc...arguably the biggest portions of the game. It's disconcerting that they are still in legal limbo as to what they can actually release. How did they not about this last year when they kept telling us they would get us at least the AB if not Issue #0? Empty promises to keep us engaged?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
fenianb wrote:
Zerohour wrote:

What kind of disjointed handicapped deal did they make that gimped the way they can release their product??

Per Update 236 (May 16, 2019): "Why haven’t you shown off a tech demo of [thing] yet? I want to see [thing] in action! There’s really two answers to that. First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately. It’s also why we can’t just release the Avatar Builder for people to play with. That’s part of why Issue 0 is so important!

"Second, a lot of what goes into game development is very un-sexy backend programming and organization. It’s mostly not fun to look at. And, as we’ve discovered, sometimes showing off something uninteresting to our audience can be worse than showing nothing at all. We’re committed to doing an excellent job and are hard at work putting together all the necessary components for City of Titans to truly come alive."

What the specifics of the deal are I don't know.

Wasn't the deal made back in either 2012 or when they switched engines in what, 2013? Last year they kept saying there were trying to get at least the AB out to fans before Issue #0. This seems very odd. It's also confusing what Issue #0 will be if what they release has to be a 'complete release'. Since obviously Issue 0 is NOT a complete release...no missions, no combat, etc...arguably the biggest portions of the game. It's disconcerting that they are still in legal limbo as to what they can actually release. How did they not about this last year when they kept telling us they would get us at least the AB if not Issue #0? Empty promises to keep us engaged?

You're mis-remembering things. They always said Issue 0, which was the island/chat/costume builder. I'm wondering if part of the delay currently might have to do with Issue 0 not being considering "complete" enough for Epic. But that's all speculation. I'd love for a Dev to clarify how we went from "3 months behind" to 7 months later.

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I'd definitely contest that

I'd definitely contest that the Chargen is the biggest part of the game, with Aesthetic Decoupling as a close second.


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alltrueist wrote:
alltrueist wrote:

You're mis-remembering things. They always said Issue 0, which was the island/chat/costume builder. I'm wondering if part of the delay currently might have to do with Issue 0 not being considering "complete" enough for Epic. But that's all speculation. I'd love for a Dev to clarify how we went from "3 months behind" to 7 months later.

Im not misremembering. Last year, specifically during the first half of the year, devs stated, multiple times, they wanted to get the AB out to KS backers before Issue #0.

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Im not misremembering. Last year, specifically during the first half of the year, devs stated, multiple times, they wanted to get the AB out to KS backers before Issue #0.

I second that. It caused a bit of a ruckus when that didn’t happen either. I don’t understand what’s going on with all this stuff.

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They did want to release the

They did want to release the AB on its own. They announced that. Then they realized they couldn’t due to contractual obligations and announced the change.

That doesn’t mean Issue #0 will be the full game. Far from it. To my best recollection, it will be the avatar builder, a small starting area to run around in, and a chat system. But no combat, no powers, no missions, nothing like that.

When those other systems are ready they’ll be patched into that client rather than being a different release. So Issue #0 will pretty much just be the AB plus a little more, but will eventually turn into the full game.

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Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

They did want to release the AB on its own. They announced that. Then they realized they couldn’t due to contractual obligations and announced the change.

That doesn’t mean Issue #0 will be the full game. Far from it. To my best recollection, it will be the avatar builder, a small starting area to run around in, and a chat system. But no combat, no powers, no missions, nothing like that.

When those other systems are ready they’ll be patched into that client rather than being a different release. So Issue #0 will pretty much just be the AB plus a little more, but will eventually turn into the full game.

I'm curious how that fits with "First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately." Issue #0 isn't a complete release so how can they release it? Issue #0 sounds like a 'playable demo with incomplete features...'

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Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Atama wrote:

They did want to release the AB on its own. They announced that. Then they realized they couldn’t due to contractual obligations and announced the change.

That doesn’t mean Issue #0 will be the full game. Far from it. To my best recollection, it will be the avatar builder, a small starting area to run around in, and a chat system. But no combat, no powers, no missions, nothing like that.

When those other systems are ready they’ll be patched into that client rather than being a different release. So Issue #0 will pretty much just be the AB plus a little more, but will eventually turn into the full game.

I'm curious how that fits with "First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately." Issue #0 isn't a complete release so how can they release it? Issue #0 sounds like a 'playable demo with incomplete features...'

Issue #0 is not a release at all; it's just what they are calling the material which will be tested with large numbers of people (i.e., more than just the Devs). Eventually, those large numbers of people will include most of the KS backers, the exceptions would be the 89 people who did not pledge at "Construction Crew" or above, or who failed to keep their contact info up to date (hint hint!). Depending on the terms of the Second Chance fundraising, it may also include some of those people. But until Issue #1, there is no release, there is only the alpha- or beta-test version provided to those who are helping to test it.

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That's a good summarize

That's a good summarize Foradain :)
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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Atama wrote:

They did want to release the AB on its own. They announced that. Then they realized they couldn’t due to contractual obligations and announced the change.

That doesn’t mean Issue #0 will be the full game. Far from it. To my best recollection, it will be the avatar builder, a small starting area to run around in, and a chat system. But no combat, no powers, no missions, nothing like that.

When those other systems are ready they’ll be patched into that client rather than being a different release. So Issue #0 will pretty much just be the AB plus a little more, but will eventually turn into the full game.

I'm curious how that fits with "First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately." Issue #0 isn't a complete release so how can they release it? Issue #0 sounds like a 'playable demo with incomplete features...'

Issue #0 is not a release at all; it's just what they are calling the material which will be tested with large numbers of people (i.e., more than just the Devs). Eventually, those large numbers of people will include most of the KS backers, the exceptions would be the 89 people who did not pledge at "Construction Crew" or above, or who failed to keep their contact info up to date (hint hint!). Depending on the terms of the Second Chance fundraising, it may also include some of those people. But until Issue #1, there is no release, there is only the alpha- or beta-test version provided to those who are helping to test it.

Good "check your info" plug


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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

[Issue #0 is not a release at all

At this point, I'm kind of tempted to call what first escapes beyond dev control to the KS Backers for testing to be Issue -1 ... and then have the public beta phase prior to game launch be Issue 0 ... just to make things even more intuitively obvious.


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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Atama wrote:

They did want to release the AB on its own. They announced that. Then they realized they couldn’t due to contractual obligations and announced the change.

That doesn’t mean Issue #0 will be the full game. Far from it. To my best recollection, it will be the avatar builder, a small starting area to run around in, and a chat system. But no combat, no powers, no missions, nothing like that.

When those other systems are ready they’ll be patched into that client rather than being a different release. So Issue #0 will pretty much just be the AB plus a little more, but will eventually turn into the full game.

I'm curious how that fits with "First, our current license with Epic prevents us from publicly releasing something other than a complete release. No playable demos with incomplete features, unfortunately." Issue #0 isn't a complete release so how can they release it? Issue #0 sounds like a 'playable demo with incomplete features...'

Issue #0 is not a release at all; it's just what they are calling the material which will be tested with large numbers of people (i.e., more than just the Devs). Eventually, those large numbers of people will include most of the KS backers, the exceptions would be the 89 people who did not pledge at "Construction Crew" or above, or who failed to keep their contact info up to date (hint hint!). Depending on the terms of the Second Chance fundraising, it may also include some of those people. But until Issue #1, there is no release, there is only the alpha- or beta-test version provided to those who are helping to test it.

You can't just call it testing to get around the legalities in their contract. If that was the case then we would have the AB by now like they promised. But apparently they cant just give it to everyone for testing because of their contract. So, my question is why/how is Issue #0 different? Its not the full-release of their game either.

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We have to release a

We have to release a multiplayer on-line game. That is what is in the contract. What consists of s multiplayer online game. At minimum that requires an on-line environment where multiple users can interact (chat) with one mother in a virtual medium.

By using this as a starting point allows us to officially launch the game and keep within our contract as a “full release”. Nothing since you have to have combat in an mmo, a bae builder etc.

Basically - here is the game, now we can add to it.

Releasing just the AB is. Not an online multiplayer game, but would be considered a separate prospect of that type of game and thus we aren’t allowed to release it separately before we fulfill our contract.


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Thanks for the clarification;

Thanks for the clarification; that hasn't been mentioned before. So Issue #0 is, technically, a full-release. That is good to know.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

We have to release a multiplayer on-line game. That is what is in the contract. What consists of s multiplayer online game. At minimum that requires an on-line environment where multiple users can interact (chat) with one mother in a virtual medium.

By using this as a starting point allows us to officially launch the game and keep within our contract as a “full release”. Nothing since you have to have combat in an mmo, a bae builder etc.

Basically - here is the game, now we can add to it.

Releasing just the AB is. Not an online multiplayer game, but would be considered a separate prospect of that type of game and thus we aren’t allowed to release it separately before we fulfill our contract.

In even simpler (slightly less accurate) terms, if you have to download an avatar builder and later another game as two distinct applications, we've breached contract. If we can just push an update out to add the rest of the game to your already downloaded app, we haven't. The hurdle of course being we have to put the framework for the rest of the game in before we can release the builder. Basically.

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It's coming along pretty well

It's coming along pretty well now, nice work.
So when do we get to tinker with it? o_o *fiddly grabby fingers*

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Let's try to keep the Chargen

Let's try to keep the Chargen UI thread on the Chargen UI :)


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

We have to release a multiplayer on-line game. That is what is in the contract. What consists of s multiplayer online game. At minimum that requires an on-line environment where multiple users can interact (chat) with one mother in a virtual medium.

By using this as a starting point allows us to officially launch the game and keep within our contract as a “full release”. Nothing since you have to have combat in an mmo, a bae builder etc.

Basically - here is the game, now we can add to it.

Releasing just the AB is. Not an online multiplayer game, but would be considered a separate prospect of that type of game and thus we aren’t allowed to release it separately before we fulfill our contract.

So when might we see the status of online environment where multiple users can chat with each other in the virtual medium under the current production material? We've seen 3D renderings individually or in small groups. We've seen game UI images. We've seen background and world-building information. And we've seen the Avatar Builder, which looks marvelous and has for some time. When might we see anything as simple as tennis ball characters chatting inside a cube to indicate that part of Issue #0 is progressing?

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fenianb wrote:
fenianb wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

We have to release a multiplayer on-line game. That is what is in the contract. What consists of s multiplayer online game. At minimum that requires an on-line environment where multiple users can interact (chat) with one mother in a virtual medium.

By using this as a starting point allows us to officially launch the game and keep within our contract as a “full release”. Nothing since you have to have combat in an mmo, a bae builder etc.

Basically - here is the game, now we can add to it.

Releasing just the AB is. Not an online multiplayer game, but would be considered a separate prospect of that type of game and thus we aren’t allowed to release it separately before we fulfill our contract.

So when might we see the status of online environment where multiple users can chat with each other in the virtual medium under the current production material? We've seen 3D renderings individually or in small groups. We've seen game UI images. We've seen background and world-building information. And we've seen the Avatar Builder, which looks marvelous and has for some time. When might we see anything as simple as tennis ball characters chatting inside a cube to indicate that part of Issue #0 is progressing?

I have zero control nor have anything to do with time tables for pushing a release. There is more than just these 2 systems we need in place for issue 0 to be ready. There is a lot of work going On for this intended purpose.

A part of which is detailed in this current update/ the chargen UI.


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Not sure I understand the

Not sure I understand the question that's not about the Chargen UI. The chatbox was shown in the in-map UI.


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DesViper wrote:
DesViper wrote:

Not sure I understand the question that's not about the Chargen UI. The chatbox was shown in the in-map UI.

Unless I'm mistaken, that UI is a mock-up...not an in-game screenshot. You can tell by two different things; first, the face in the top left doesn't match the avatar's face. Second, the chat says "...when this eventually gets turned into the real thing."

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I mean discussion on the

I mean discussion on the Gameplay UI is over here


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

We have to release a multiplayer on-line game. That is what is in the contract. What consists of s multiplayer online game. At minimum that requires an on-line environment where multiple users can interact (chat) with one mother in a virtual medium.

By using this as a starting point allows us to officially launch the game and keep within our contract as a “full release”. Nothing since you have to have combat in an mmo, a bae builder etc.

Basically - here is the game, now we can add to it.

Releasing just the AB is. Not an online multiplayer game, but would be considered a separate prospect of that type of game and thus we aren’t allowed to release it separately before we fulfill our contract.

Thanks, Tannim. That makes sense and clarifies/ties together a couple aspects I had been wondering about till now.

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The license is for a single

The license is for a single product. As such, the issue is not so much releasing ahead, as ensuring what we release is legally perceived as part of the whole. We're in contact with Epic now to clarify some internal uncertainty on what that would require, and any contradictions you've seen posted are most likely a product of that.

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Shadow Elusive wrote:
Shadow Elusive wrote:

The license is for a single product. As such, the issue is not so much releasing ahead, as ensuring what we release is legally perceived as part of the whole. We're in contact with Epic now to clarify some internal uncertainty on what that would require, and any contradictions you've seen posted are most likely a product of that.

Fair enough. The last thing we want is some sort of legal snafu right at the start.

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Thanks for the clarifications

Thanks for the clarifications MWM. Now, it's crystal clear.
Keep up the good work guys. We still here to support you :)