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Discuss: Character Creation, T-shirts, and Anthem Meets American Star

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Shadow Elusive
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Discuss: Character Creation, T-shirts, and Anthem Meets American Star

Here you go - blast us! Don't forget to use twice as much ammo for twice as much update!

Link to original update: http://cityoftitans.com/content/character-creation-t-shirts-and-anthem-meets-american-star

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jimminey crickets, rippable

jimminey crickets, rippable costume parts? that's completely awesome! in addition, I am really grooving on all the locations available to play with for costumes. :)

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I am looking forward to some

I am looking forward to some nice asymmetrical costumes in the future :)

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I LOVE PHYSICS IN GAMES >-

I LOVE PHYSICS IN GAMES >-

Have a nice day!

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Point of information: Once

Point of information: Once they graduate from MCRD (San Diego or Parris Island), they're no longer recruits. So, either this Marine base has something in common with Camp Pendleton (where recruits from MCRD San Diego have rifle range and basic infantry training, or at least we did back when), or they aren't recruits. Newbies would be appropriate slang in the latter case.

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

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I hope I'm not reading too

I hope I'm not reading too much into the snippets you've shown us, but I'm really digging the art style you seem to be implying!

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Ripping parts on a costume

Ripping parts on a costume would be a lot of fun to mess around with. I just hope some medieval armor is in there...

-Green Cheetah

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Point of information: Once they graduate from MCRD (San Diego or Parris Island), they're no longer recruits. So, either this Marine base has something in common with Camp Pendleton (where recruits from MCRD San Diego have rifle range and basic infantry training, or at least we did back when), or they aren't recruits. Newbies would be appropriate slang in the latter case.

Different world, slightly different training setup. I will ask robin on it.

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I can only assume given the

I can only assume given the timeline stated in the blurb about the t-shirt that this shirt will arrive before any of the other ones I've already ordered? Or are the Kickstarter shirt and the Cosmogulus shirt on the way too? Because I haven't received those yet, and I'm a little nervous that my address might have gotten screwed up, given that the earlier website stuff needed you to re-0enter the shipping address like three times to make sure it was right.

Apart from that concern.... just WOW. I've said this before but it bears repeating now: Tthis game is going to look GORGEOUS.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I can only assume given the timeline stated in the blurb about the t-shirt that this shirt will arrive before any of the other ones I've already ordered? Or are the Kickstarter shirt and the Cosmogulus shirt on the way too? Because I haven't received those yet, and I'm a little nervous that my address might have gotten screwed up, given that the earlier website stuff needed you to re-0enter the shipping address like three times to make sure it was right.
Apart from that concern.... just WOW. I've said this before but it bears repeating now: Tthis game is going to look GORGEOUS.

The Kickstarter and Cosmogulus shirt orders were submitted last week I was told, so they should be heading out from Teelaunch soon I was assured.

I'm waiting on mine too, mind you. How many people get to dress their entire families in their own face?

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Only question: will there be

Only question: will there be asymmetry applicable to facial features, or is the head one piece as shown?

Other than that, it's like you guys don't know to disappoint! ;)

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O... M... G

O... M... G

The guys in my SG were excited about the costume I designed for Fasionista but they kept asking "Can mine be a swimsuit version" .. "I want mine to be short sleeved to show off my tattoos!" "I want mine to show the tights on the arms and just the breast of the jacket"..

I said "we'll see" to all of them but mostly was scared that we'd all look a bit too identical. NOW that I know they can show what they want and still keep the design.. they will be MUCH happier now that they know that they don't all have to wear wedge heel boots to fit in. COSTUMES! Thats like the best part of the game for me.. seeing Kontrol come to life will just...

*Brainsplosion*

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I like the dynamic between

I like the dynamic between American Star and Anthem. She's looking for 'how' and he's giving her 'why', as if 'how' doesn't matter...

Personally, I can totally agree. As long as you have 'why' completely covered, 'how' is just a random variable.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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More good stuff. Yay!

More good stuff. Yay!

I agree with Fireheart. There must be a lot of comedy gold in a man from 1890 trying to teach the ropes to a woman (and a soldier, at that) from 1990.

Classic villain blunder. Never, ever, plan a coup where the successor to a major hero is likely to be (much less lives/works). They're frequently almost more effective as a competent 'normal' than they are once they put on the mantle.

This avatar builder is going to be da bomb (as I'm certain they say... somewhere).

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Only question: will there be asymmetry applicable to facial features, or is the head one piece as shown?

This is pure speculation on my part but I have to figure the heads/faces of these characters are going to work in unique ways based on the likely number of facial sliders and what not. The faces are likely going to be considered their own "zone" that'll be handled in their own way as far as symmetry/asymmetry goes.

As far as zones for the rest of the head goes it might make sense to at least have separate left and right sides. This would allow for say a single earring in one ear or maybe an asymmetrical horn like Venger from the old D&D cartoon.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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We don't have much promise

We don't have much promise for the head portion with the current diagram.
If we took a look at what the other games had or have.

CoX
Face
Hair
Detail 1
Detail 2
Helm
Helm Detail 1
Helm Detail 2
Helm Detail 3

DCUO
Face
Makeup
Eyes
Hair

CO
Headware
Hairstyle
Eyes
Mouth accessory
Top accessory
Side Accessory
Eyebrow
Collar

Hero Smash
Do I really need to say anything.

It would be nice if face patterns were separate feature from make up,
and separate from masks and separate from helms.
All 4 separate features.
I remember reading a lot of posts form Cox about that particular feature.

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You are correct, folks. The

You are correct, folks. The face and head is not finalized. We're going to be giving you a lot of options on the face.
A _lot_ of options. And it's going to be a bit complicated, especially when we put hats on top of hair.
So we're treating it as a second-generation issue, rather than a first.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

You are correct, folks. The face and head is not finalized. We're going to be giving you a lot of options on the face.
A _lot_ of options. And it's going to be a bit complicated, especially when we put hats on top of hair.
So we're treating it as a second-generation issue, rather than a first.

Are you using the phrases "first and second generation" as Devspeak for "some things will be present at game launch and other things will be added after launch"? That's completely understandable if that's what you mean. Clearly things like being able to put hats on top of any kind of hair will be a step beyond what CoH was able to provide and I could see where something like that might take more time to sort out.

Just to throw in my proverbial "two cents" I still would favor the idea of allowing for as many asymmetrical head details as possible. For example my earring idea from my last post. Anything like this should be able to be flagged either "left side only", "right side only" or "both sides". This could include things like horns, antenna, ear coverings, ear shape, eye details (like monocles) and so on.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Clever to mix tech and lore

Clever to mix tech and lore in one update so it's difficult for anyone to completely dismiss it. ;-)

I like the news about the avatar tech, especially the solution to the exact robot-arm issue I had with Cinn in CoX.

As for the lore part, Anthem is coming across exactly as I anticipated from her picture. Nice work. Also really enjoyed: "I didn’t think of myself as a superhero. He said that was good." Reminds me of the old quote, "The best politician is someone who doesn't want to be one."

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

warcabbit wrote:
You are correct, folks. The face and head is not finalized. We're going to be giving you a lot of options on the face.
A _lot_ of options. And it's going to be a bit complicated, especially when we put hats on top of hair.
So we're treating it as a second-generation issue, rather than a first.

Are you using the phrases "first and second generation" as Devspeak for "some things will be present at game launch and other things will be added after launch"? That's completely understandable if that's what you mean. Clearly things like being able to put hats on top of any kind of hair will be a step beyond what CoH was able to provide and I could see where something like that might take more time to sort out.
Just to throw in my proverbial "two cents" I still would favor the idea of allowing for as many asymmetrical head details as possible. For example my earring idea from my last post. Anything like this should be able to be flagged either "left side only", "right side only" or "both sides". This could include things like horns, antenna, ear coverings, ear shape, eye details (like monocles) and so on.

More " costume creator launch" vs "game launch"

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The Trick to use use hat

The Trick to use use hat level with various hairstyles.
Give us the tools and put the onus on us.
You may have to add hat sliders in some cases as well.

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warcabbit wrote:
warcabbit wrote:

You are correct, folks. The face and head is not finalized. We're going to be giving you a lot of options on the face.
A _lot_ of options. And it's going to be a bit complicated, especially when we put hats on top of hair.
So we're treating it as a second-generation issue, rather than a first.

Hmmm... Would using a Vertex Color on the Mesh Hair work? Meaning, the Hat Mesh would be used as a Mesh Collider, and in code you would paint the Mesh Hair Verts Alpha color to transparent and use a Shader that used the Verts Alpha Data to hide strands of hair that stick out.

I'm guessing to make it work better, you might have to make a Extra/Separate Hat Mesh Collider to really do the job right.

But this way, you might not have to worry about making the hair out of stitched together pieces of mesh. Plus I always think of Afro Hair 1st for Hats. How you would handle it. Stitching meshes might not work the Best. But Vert Painting might yield better results, if the Hair mesh has more Verts though. ;)

Side note:
At one time I was thinking the same approach could be taken for Limbs. Instead of Stitching limb pieces, Vert Paint Alpha Transparent and just attach the new limb mesh to the correct bone and ur Done! ;)

Errr.. not that easy, but something to this effect?!? Of course, this would also mean there are more verts to draw. Ehhh. :P

Also, the same approach might be handy when trying to hide the Ruffles on a Ruffled Sleeves Shirt, when a jacket is worn over it. ;)

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Okay thanks warcabbit. I had

Okay thanks warcabbit. I had a few ideas I couldn't make in CoH because of the head types. One character would have half his face burnt (hound from Game of thrones for example) or deformed, maimed. (Hex, Two-face). So being able to make half the face distorted, scarred, or just different than the other half is something I look forward to.

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Anthem kind of reminds me of

Anthem kind of reminds me of korra from avatat....

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+1

+1

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"The first thing to

"The first thing to understand when looking at this is it isn’t just a map of potential clothing locations. This body is a fused mesh - each one of these colored sections is a distinct piece. The biggest takeaway is that every piece can be substituted with an alternate mesh. I’ll leave that to your imagination for the moment."

Does that mean I can make a person with feet hands, or decide that my character doesn't look good with legs and decide to not use them?

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Esorono wrote:
Esorono wrote:

"The first thing to understand when looking at this is it isn’t just a map of potential clothing locations. This body is a fused mesh - each one of these colored sections is a distinct piece. The biggest takeaway is that every piece can be substituted with an alternate mesh. I’ll leave that to your imagination for the moment."
Does that mean I can make a person with feet hands, or decide that my character doesn't look good with legs and decide to not use them?

We would first need to put hands as a foot option. The location has to stay the same in order for the skeleton to meet up.

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Your friendly neighborhood

Your friendly neighborhood sheep wandering by.

First thing to be aware of is that it is a very, very "raw" prototype. For example, the asymmetry support for the torso is not (yet) enabled for that model because we have not yet fully worked out the details of what will or won't work with patterns vs. fundamentally different mesh shapes (as in, whether we can / will support something like "a metallic skeleton on the left part and a bubble-filled fluid on the right part" (or is that front/back, or all four quadrants... you get the idea). The answers to some of those questions affect how we handle certain other things, like pattern asymmetry. Not "whether," so far as can be seen at the moment, just "how."

The same situation, writ larger, is going on with the head; hair and accessory pieces and such are still in significantly more flux than "how to handle the basic body shape," so for this round -- which was under time pressure as well -- we deliberately did not attempt to show various possibilities, because we don't yet have a good enough feel for which ones are going to end up workable.

As for 'fused', that is actually a technical aspect that most folks will, with any luck, never have cause to think about -- for the simple reason that in the "cheap and easy" approach done with transparency and overlaid body parts, which *is* supported by UE4 (and is approximately what Izzy was describing), every single color you see in that image would be a separate "draw call" (a call out to the graphics card to draw an entity). For those who don't want to try to count them, the reason the selection is so garish is that I went and hunted down a site that would calculate visually distinguishable colors, and had to set it up for about two dozen. So... fusing is the difference between "you can have 10 people in a costume contest" or "you can have 250 people in a costume contest", approximately.[*]

[*] Disclaimer: this is not a promise that you will be able to have 250 people connected in one place... or a statement that you won't. Answer hazy, ask again later.

As for foot-hands, that sounds remarkably like the sort of thing that might show up in a simian body arrangement. Are they still called bipeds, at that point? Or are they quadmans?

As for skipping the legs entirely, that might be a bit beyond what is really plausible, certainly at any early stage, mostly because you're starting to get into changes to the fundamental skeletal structure of the body, and that has implications for things like the animations that go with that skeleton.

Now, I wonder what happens when you try to put on a long-sleeve shirt and opera gloves...

Er, wait, I just said that in my out-loud voice, didn't I?

*flash* What you saw was sunlight reflecting off of the tapetum lucidum...

Edit/Addendum: it is likely that some of the region boundaries may shift slightly, and there may end up being slightly more or fewer (but much more likely 'more' than 'fewer') divisions. Again, a matter of timing.


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MWM understands that it is a

MWM understands that it is a better marketing approach to promise less and deliver more, if possible, than to make lots of promises and not deliver on half of them?!

Egads, they've cracked the Code!

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Now, I wonder what happens when you try to put on a long-sleeve shirt and opera gloves...

Fashion police happens. >.>

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Fashion police happens. >.>

We All know opera gloves go Under!

:o Officers, Arrest dem!

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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Your friendly neighborhood sheep wandering by.
First thing to be aware of is that it is a very, very "raw" prototype. For example, the asymmetry support for the torso is not (yet) enabled for that model because we have not yet fully worked out the details of what will or won't work with patterns vs. fundamentally different mesh shapes (as in, whether we can / will support something like "a metallic skeleton on the left part and a bubble-filled fluid on the right part" (or is that front/back, or all four quadrants... you get the idea). The answers to some of those questions affect how we handle certain other things, like pattern asymmetry. Not "whether," so far as can be seen at the moment, just "how."
The same situation, writ larger, is going on with the head; hair and accessory pieces and such are still in significantly more flux than "how to handle the basic body shape," so for this round -- which was under time pressure as well -- we deliberately did not attempt to show various possibilities, because we don't yet have a good enough feel for which ones are going to end up workable.
As for 'fused', that is actually a technical aspect that most folks will, with any luck, never have cause to think about -- for the simple reason that in the "cheap and easy" approach done with transparency and overlaid body parts, which *is* supported by UE4 (and is approximately what Izzy was describing), every single color you see in that image would be a separate "draw call" (a call out to the graphics card to draw an entity). For those who don't want to try to count them, the reason the selection is so garish is that I went and hunted down a site that would calculate visually distinguishable colors, and had to set it up for about two dozen. So... fusing is the difference between "you can have 10 people in a costume contest" or "you can have 250 people in a costume contest", approximately.[*]
[*] Disclaimer: this is not a promise that you will be able to have 250 people connected in one place... or a statement that you won't. Answer hazy, ask again later.
As for foot-hands, that sounds remarkably like the sort of thing that might show up in a simian body arrangement. Are they still called bipeds, at that point? Or are they quadmans?
As for skipping the legs entirely, that might be a bit beyond what is really plausible, certainly at any early stage, mostly because you're starting to get into changes to the fundamental skeletal structure of the body, and that has implications for things like the animations that go with that skeleton.
Now, I wonder what happens when you try to put on a long-sleeve shirt and opera gloves...
Er, wait, I just said that in my out-loud voice, didn't I?
*flash* What you saw was sunlight reflecting off of the tapetum lucidum...
Edit/Addendum: it is likely that some of the region boundaries may shift slightly, and there may end up being slightly more or fewer (but much more likely 'more' than 'fewer') divisions. Again, a matter of timing.

Well I think you're over thinking this whole "hands for feet and having a character with no head" thing. It's not really a matter of making a whole new body type or rig. It's a matter of just a simple costume piece for the feet that look like hands and having the option to turn you're limbs or head invisible not change things around or remove pieces from the rig completely. The hand feet costume pieces don't even have to move or grab things at all anymore than wings have to give people the ability to fly, and just giving us the option to make our legs invisible well please a lot of "I want to make a character who has smoke instead of legs" people because they could make that effect with just the right leg aura and that would be it. It's not a matter of rig at all.

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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

As for skipping the legs entirely, that might be a bit beyond what is really plausible, certainly at any early stage, mostly because you're starting to get into changes to the fundamental skeletal structure of the body, and that has implications for things like the animations that go with that skeleton.

Aw, though we can still have invisible limbs with the skeleton still there like the costume 'glitches' in CO, right? Having invisible body parts creates a lot of neat character concepts.

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The Invisible Stomach strikes

The Invisible Stomach strikes again!

>.> <.<

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Esorono wrote:
Esorono wrote:

DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
As for skipping the legs entirely, that might be a bit beyond what is really plausible, certainly at any early stage, mostly because you're starting to get into changes to the fundamental skeletal structure of the body, and that has implications for things like the animations that go with that skeleton.

Aw, though we can still have invisible limbs with the skeleton still there like the costume 'glitches' in CO, right? Having invisible body parts creates a lot of neat character concepts.

There was a related thread recently discussing the idea of "invisible costume items" and no, I don't mean in order to make "nude" costumes easy to do. The idea was specifically to make things like shadow horns that wouldn't be visible if you looked at them directly but you could still see them sticking up in any shadow you cast.

Now admittedly I don't have much first-hand experience with how UE4 does texturing, but it would seem that it might be possible to turn the opacity of a body part all the way down to 0% so that it's effectively "invisible" even though it's still there as far as animations and game physics goes. And to carry this one step further it would seem like you could control that kind of 0% opacity via wearing certain costume items that confer that "invisibility" to whatever body part that costume item was covering.

The main problem I'd see come from this is that it might become too easy for people to wear full invisibility bodysuits and run around like that permanently. While that would certainly be "possible" for a superhero to do it would likely cause too many game balance problems, especially (and obviously) for PvP. There would have to be arbitrary limits to just how invisible you could make your body become with this method. Maybe it'd have to be limited to only external parts like horns, wings, tails or anything else that's not strictly part of the core human body model or maybe you could only do legs/arms but not torsos/heads.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Esorono wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
As for skipping the legs entirely, that might be a bit beyond what is really plausible, certainly at any early stage, mostly because you're starting to get into changes to the fundamental skeletal structure of the body, and that has implications for things like the animations that go with that skeleton.

Aw, though we can still have invisible limbs with the skeleton still there like the costume 'glitches' in CO, right? Having invisible body parts creates a lot of neat character concepts.

There was a related thread recently discussing the idea of "invisible costume items" and no, I don't mean in order to make "nude" costumes easy to do. The idea was specifically to make things like shadow horns that wouldn't be visible if you looked at them directly but you could still see them sticking up in any shadow you cast.
Now admittedly I don't have much first-hand experience with how UE4 does texturing, but it would seem that it might be possible to turn the opacity of a body part all the way down to 0% so that it's effectively "invisible" even though it's still there as far as animations and game physics goes. And to carry this one step further it would seem like you could control that kind of 0% opacity via wearing certain costume items that confer that "invisibility" to whatever body part that costume item was covering.
The main problem I'd see come from this is that it might become too easy for people to wear full invisibility bodysuits and run around like that permanently. While that would certainly be "possible" for a superhero to do it would likely cause too many game balance problems, especially (and obviously) for PvP. There would have to be arbitrary limits to just how invisible you could make your body become with this method. Maybe it'd have to be limited to only external parts like horns, wings, tails or anything else that's not strictly part of the core human body model or maybe you could only do legs/arms but not torsos/heads.

The idea of an invisible object casting a shadow.....

I'm going to look into this.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

The idea of an invisible object casting a shadow.....
I'm going to look into this.

Yeah it might not have to be a costuming priority but it might be a neat thing to consider as some kind of post-launch update.

Maybe as a method to keep this kind of thing from being abused or overpowered you could limit the amount of "invisibility" you could get from this to say like 5% or 10% opacity. This way you could see these "phantom limbs" if you looked closely but they would still be mostly invisible or very ghost-like.

It would be pretty cool to have things like ghostly wings, horns or tails to hint at "supernatural" connections or even do something like the Phantom Limb from the Venture Brothers:

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One potential issue I could

One potential issue I could see is with animations, e.g. if a player decides a character has no arms but the animation set originates powers from the hands.

Then again, I put such decisions squarely on the player. If the player has an issue with such things, they shouldn't choose such animation sets for that character. Or, to put it more succinctly, "Stupid is as stupid does."

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

One potential issue I could see is with animations, e.g. if a player decides a character has no arms but the animation set originates powers from the hands.
Then again, I put such decisions squarely on the player. If the player has an issue with such things, they shouldn't choose such animation sets for that character. Or, to put it more succinctly, "Stupid is as stupid does."

Sure it might look weird for power blasts to come from arms/hands that are invisible. On the other hand it might actually look kind of cool if the player sets the rest of it up with the right costume and colors. Either way this should be the kind of thing that a player could decide for themselves.

The main advantage of this suggestion for "invisible costume parts" is that it shouldn't involve having to physically modify the body model or the animations in any way - all we're talking about here is affecting the visual opacity of certain parts which may turn out to be relatively easy to do.

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Clever trick, assuming an

Clever trick, assuming an invisible "part" can cast a shadow... ;-)

A lot going on in there, photons, perceived solidity, quantum physics, phase states??? Awesome stuff!

There are a lot of great ideas going on this topic.
It looks like a lot of forward thinking about customization is going on and I love hearing it!
Creating a unique character both backstory and costume/look/feel was so much fun in CoX, I am so looking forward to what everyone at CoT comes up with.

My two cents, I am wondering if it will be possible to have "floating" costume parts, for example halo's, detached wings floating just off the back, etc? I know it's a bit silly but those are some of the crazy details that can make a character stand out, so to speak...

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

The idea of an invisible object casting a shadow.....
I'm going to look into this.

Er. Don't bother, I can tell you how to do it off the top of my head? :)


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Not going to try to quote

Not going to try to quote everything in separate responses, here. So, in no particular order:

  • Blasts originating from hands and feet that aren't there? What, do you think we have an 'advanced mode' planned where the rules are "if it breaks you get to keep the pieces" or something? Er, wait, that's *exactly* what's been planned from, er, about the time we decided that there was actually enough value in "make it easy and simple to not look actively *bad*" to make that a default.
  • My point about a simian costume set is that, indeed, all that is required to support it is making hand-shaped "feet". However, even for most of the creatures that have them, the feet aren't actually quite the same shape as the hands, so it really look right, you'd want to start from a hand-like mesh and then tweak it and arrange it to behave a bit more like an actual foot of that structure does.
  • Functional gripping by the feet is out of scope for launch. Whether it is out of scope, period, is an entirely different discussion, however...
  • There is absolutely nothing that says that any particular chunk of mesh has to be attached to any other, unless they need to have physics applied that only work if there is something to transmit force, or something similar (... and even then, there are options).
  • Invisible body parts are easy, but if you want a body part of smoke, why don't we just make a body part pattern that presents it in a way that that volume is filled with smoke in the first place? Not that that in any way would rule out using a smoke aura as well, of course.
  • Yes, 'full invisibility' on a full range of body parts would be somewhat problematic in terms of things like PvP or even just social chatting (rule #1 of being a "dark" (unseen) staffer on a game: never, ever, EVER go somewhere without announcing your presence the instant you show up, or the instant anyone else arrives, no matter how public). However, that doesn't rule out "visible invisibility" sorts of effects, nor does it rule out being able to do at least some things as invisible. There are probably several departments that would need to have input about limitations on such things, so all I can say for now is that in any purely technical sense, it is not only possible, it is more or less trivial. A significant number of the screenshots you've seen to date actually had invisible chunks of things in them that, well, you didn't see...
  • Have I mentioned that UE4's switch to physical shaders means that it now handles index of refraction logic? Next hero: Prismacolor! Er, wait, that might cause some trademark concerns...
  • When I spoke about rigging, etc, for "no legs", I was speaking in terms of literally *no* legs, with the feet attached just below the pelvis. Not invisible legs. There is a world of difference from the engine's perspective. And that of the character now missing almost half their height, I suspect, as well.
  • As for opera gloves, long sleeves, etc: seriously? I go to that much trouble and nobody catches the implications?
  • As for the other thing everyone missed: okay, clearly I'm being way too subtle. There a part of the character that is showing off a completely different type of costume piece and a different style. For those who know UE4: even with that being true, every single piece you see is using the same material (different material instances).

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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Not going to try to quote everything in separate responses, here. So, in no particular order:
Blasts originating from hands and feet that aren't there? What, do you think we have an 'advanced mode' planned where the rules are "if it breaks you get to keep the pieces" or something? Er, wait, that's *exactly* what's been planned from, er, about the time we decided that there was actually enough value in "make it easy and simple to not look actively *bad*" to make that a default.
My point about a simian costume set is that, indeed, all that is required to support it is making hand-shaped "feet". However, even for most of the creatures that have them, the feet aren't actually quite the same shape as the hands, so it really look right, you'd want to start from a hand-like mesh and then tweak it and arrange it to behave a bit more like an actual foot of that structure does.
Functional gripping by the feet is out of scope for launch. Whether it is out of scope, period, is an entirely different discussion, however...
There is absolutely nothing that says that any particular chunk of mesh has to be attached to any other, unless they need to have physics applied that only work if there is something to transmit force, or something similar (... and even then, there are options).
Invisible body parts are easy, but if you want a body part of smoke, why don't we just make a body part pattern that presents it in a way that that volume is filled with smoke in the first place? Not that that in any way would rule out using a smoke aura as well, of course.
Yes, 'full invisibility' on a full range of body parts would be somewhat problematic in terms of things like PvP or even just social chatting (rule #1 of being a "dark" (unseen) staffer on a game: never, ever, EVER go somewhere without announcing your presence the instant you show up, or the instant anyone else arrives, no matter how public). However, that doesn't rule out "visible invisibility" sorts of effects, nor does it rule out being able to do at least some things as invisible. There are probably several departments that would need to have input about limitations on such things, so all I can say for now is that in any purely technical sense, it is not only possible, it is more or less trivial. A significant number of the screenshots you've seen to date actually had invisible chunks of things in them that, well, you didn't see...
Have I mentioned that UE4's switch to physical shaders means that it now handles index of refraction logic? Next hero: Prismacolor! Er, wait, that might cause some trademark concerns...
When I spoke about rigging, etc, for "no legs", I was speaking in terms of literally *no* legs, with the feet attached just below the pelvis. Not invisible legs. There is a world of difference from the engine's perspective. And that of the character now missing almost half their height, I suspect, as well.
As for opera gloves, long sleeves, etc: seriously? I go to that much trouble and nobody catches the implications?
As for the other thing everyone missed: okay, clearly I'm being way too subtle. There a part of the character that is showing off a completely different type of costume piece and a different style. For those who know UE4: even with that being true, every single piece you see is using the same material (different material instances).

Alright cool, thanks for the info :3

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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

As for opera gloves, long sleeves, etc: seriously? I go to that much trouble and nobody catches the implications?

Ohhh... We can have the same Scarf over most types of Hair? :D

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"Invisible body parts are

"Invisible body parts are easy, but if you want a body part of smoke, why don't we just make a body part pattern that presents it in a way that that volume is filled with smoke in the first place? Not that that in any way would rule out using a smoke aura as well, of course."

Because some concepts work better without them, and it quickly became the most frustrating part of creating something for me in CoX and CO because a lot of concepts I had worked better with a ghostly tail or no legs at all. Though CO has a few NPCs that have invisible legs and uses an aura to achieve a tail effect then put them into hover mode, which would allow for a much larger variety of character creation than just smoke legs.

Introducing a similar costume part with a ghostly tail that can be transparent, opaque, or invisible would allow for creations such as Wyrms, shades, ghosts, and quite a few other options.

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Esorono wrote:
Esorono wrote:

"Invisible body parts are easy, but if you want a body part of smoke, why don't we just make a body part pattern that presents it in a way that that volume is filled with smoke in the first place? Not that that in any way would rule out using a smoke aura as well, of course."
Because some concepts work better without them, and it quickly became the most frustrating part of creating something for me in CoX and CO because a lot of concepts I had worked better with a ghostly tail or no legs at all. Though CO has a few NPCs that have invisible legs and uses an aura to achieve a tail effect then put them into hover mode, which would allow for a much larger variety of character creation than just smoke legs.
Introducing a similar costume part with a ghostly tail that can be transparent, opaque, or invisible would allow for creations such as Wyrms, shades, ghosts, and quite a few other options.

It was more about pointing out that we don't actually need invisible body parts to be able to do things like those -- not that we should not have them, just that we could do a better job of not forcing folks to have to "hack together" everything.

Especially given the other concerns brought up regarding true invisibility in costuming available to PCs that we really would need to sort out an answer to before we could make it a generally-available option. That, more than anything else, is likely to be the thorniest spot in the whole thing, since from a technical perspective it is dead simple to do.


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DeathSheepFromHell wrote:
DeathSheepFromHell wrote:

Esorono wrote:
"Invisible body parts are easy, but if you want a body part of smoke, why don't we just make a body part pattern that presents it in a way that that volume is filled with smoke in the first place? Not that that in any way would rule out using a smoke aura as well, of course."
Because some concepts work better without them, and it quickly became the most frustrating part of creating something for me in CoX and CO because a lot of concepts I had worked better with a ghostly tail or no legs at all. Though CO has a few NPCs that have invisible legs and uses an aura to achieve a tail effect then put them into hover mode, which would allow for a much larger variety of character creation than just smoke legs.
Introducing a similar costume part with a ghostly tail that can be transparent, opaque, or invisible would allow for creations such as Wyrms, shades, ghosts, and quite a few other options.

It was more about pointing out that we don't actually need invisible body parts to be able to do things like those -- not that we should not have them, just that we could do a better job of not forcing folks to have to "hack together" everything.
Especially given the other concerns brought up regarding true invisibility in costuming available to PCs that we really would need to sort out an answer to before we could make it a generally-available option. That, more than anything else, is likely to be the thorniest spot in the whole thing, since from a technical perspective it is dead simple to do.

Well here's hoping invisible limbs make it in :).

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Well I am really looking

Well I am really looking forward to the ability to be able to 'tear off' your sleeve so you can show up your tattoo part, or simply to make it more unique xD Sounds pretty neat.

Now the other thing which I noticed and wondered is most of the main chars females? Because in the brief story part I couldn't ignore the info that we had 2-3 women and just one guy... I hope you don't plan to concentrate over females as protagonist in our heroes development.... and will keep it balanced...

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is Joss Whedon a member of

is Joss Whedon a member of the dev team!?!

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I like what I see......

I like what I see......

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Nah, we got plenty of guys,

Nah, we got plenty of guys, trust me.

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Great progress, you are

Great progress, you are filling the gaps of previous games i enjoyed.
Are you planning on allowing multiple limbs or varied flight motions? To avoid all flyers flying the same.

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I am really pumped now for

I am really pumped now for character creation.
...................................Is there any discussion about releasing the character creator before the game? (heck, I would even pay cash money for that)
I would be nice to learn the ropes before the first day. I could easily spend hours in the old COH creator...now with even MORE options, having a head start, and maybe even being able to save a costume, I could leap right into the game on opening day!

Every time I read more stuff about this game, I get more excited.

Devs, you have a winner with this game!

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Everything Cyclops said I

Everything Cyclops said I second! I am really looking forward to getting into the character creation and seeing what I can create!

Question though, is there any idea of what the character creation background will look like, will it just be a plain color like in CoX, or will it be as if you are creating it in the city like in Valiance.

I personally don't know what I like better, CoX was the best character creator I've ever seen so I don't know how I would improve it.

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Question though, is there any idea of what the character creation background will look like, will it just be a plain color like in CoX, or will it be as if you are creating it in the city like in Valiance.

I'd like it to change like it does in DCUO, but over time, more themes added to the Avatar Builder Backgrounds Pack.. for a tiny Price. ;)
Free for Subscribers, of course. ;D

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Question though, is there any idea of what the character creation background will look like, will it just be a plain color like in CoX, or will it be as if you are creating it in the city like in Valiance.

I'd like it to change like it does in DCUO, but over time, more themes added to the Avatar Builder Backgrounds Pack.. for a tiny Price. ;)
Free for Subscribers, of course. ;D

I like the background of the character creation in DCUO, could be a little less cluttered though. I prefer subtle elegance, maybe a cross between CoX and DCUO ?

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As I recall, the CoH

As I recall, the CoH Character Builder Background could be replaced or modified. One had to do some file-swapping, as there was no background control in the UI.

Having a background/environment switching function in the CoT Avatar Builder would be a nifty feature.

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I'd like to eventually see

I'd like to eventually see the background be changeable, like FFXIV's is. It's got options to see your character in the typical creator screen, three in-game zones with the lighting of those zones, and an indoor room. I remember that it wasn't unusual for a character to look slightly different in the in-game lighting in CoH than it did in the creator. Having options for different in-game sample backgrounds when making the character really helps.

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Don't listen to these guys. A

Don't listen to these guys. A simple color for the background is FINE. Release it when ready and upgrade the background later.