Has anything come up regarding non-human leg arrangements? I remember something mentioned somewhere about if there are NPC's with snake tail lower bodies, that would be a PC option, but I was curious about how non-human legs, like paws or hooves, are going to be handled?
Most of CoH's non-human legs left a bit to be desired for me, they hit somewhere in uncanny valley for me. It always bothered me that I couldn't apply patterns to the feet, continuing down from the legs. Probably because they were somewhat of an afterthought, added in during CoV and thus made to conform to the default model skeleton.
And yeah, for the record I also did always want a serpentine lower body option like the Snakes and some of the Talons as well.
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I think digigrade legs would be an awesome option, provided there are enough customizable parts. I would love to see advanced sliders to change the size of each individual leg part (thighs, calves, feet etc). I'm not so much interested in the serpentine lower body, as it's not something I see myself using, but I think that's also a great option for players who are looking for that.
Can we get new dev insight on this? Please?
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I don't remember where I saw it - probably one of the comments on a kickstarter update - but they aren't ready to promise proper digitigrade legs; the shortcut CoH and CO used of making a non-animated lower-leg-and-upper-foot section is the best they're sure they can get working.
After all, when you suddenly make the leg have three segments instead of two, you need to re-do all of your animations; even if you've got an inverse-kinematics approximation mechanism, you still need to double-check everything by hand to make sure your IK engine didn't cause egregious clipping or make the knees bend the wrong way or something. (I've played around with IK some, in other contexts, and it's really neat - but has some potential issues, especially when you've got three or more segments and there's no longer a single unique solution.)
Still, they also mentioned that they were looking into some possible solutions that "looked promising", so we can hope.
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This is another one of those suggestions where "it'd be great to have" but I could live with it being a post-launch update.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I concur. As much as I would like to have the full kitten effect for Amerikatt, I'm willing to wait until after launch, just as long as I can have *something* (like Feline Face and Feline Ears) to indicate that Amerikatt is, indeed, a cat.
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Also agree. Would be nice to have the options, but are most certainly not necessary at launch.
Anatomically speaking, human legs and digigrade legs have the exact same number of segments(thigh, calf, foot, toes) and joints(knee, ankle, ball of foot), everything even bends the same direction. The difference, skeletally speaking, is that the ankle is off the ground and the segments are slightly different relative lengths.
That said, that small difference is enough to cause headaches in rigging and animation.
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There are sources, like [url=http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_91/91mast.htm]this article[/url], that have illustrations showing the joint angles for digitigrade gaits that could be used to rig the animation.
The only reason that it 'changes from two segments to three' -- which, by the way, is wrong; there are four for both -- is that some gait and pose animations don't bother animating the toe and ankle joint and lock the foot and calf together at a fixed angle; more accurate gait animations model all four segments -- thigh, calf, foot, toes (picture the last part of a stride just before you lift your foot -- your toes are on the ground and your heel is elevated, so there are four segments moving); the same four segments are there for digitigrade gaits, they're just proportioned differently and move in a different sequence.
Sorry to necro, but didn't want to start a whole new thread--just curious if there's any news on this topic?
We had several options for this in CoH in the Monstrous catagory, so I would think UE 4 could handle it.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
That depends on how you define "handle it".
If you mean just being able to flip a switch between plantigrade and digitigrade (and even unguligrade) then I'm pretty sure that would be a "no". As stated above, there would need to be some significant changes to the leg and foot models and the related animations to do it properly.
One of the things that founds really off-putting in CO is having the leg portion in the form of digitigrade but almost no feet being of the digitigrade kind having you still stand on the whole sole of the foot. Even if MWM doesn't do it mechanically they should be able to fairly easily give the visual part.
I would be happy with just the visual like CoH had. I really didn't have a problem with it.
I mean, it'd be great if were fully functional mechanically, but I'd rather have it "well-faked" than not at all.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Awesome idea; guess I am not the only one whom would like to see something like this. I always wanted the quadruped stance, I would wager that minion options would allow this, if created pets options make it in-game.
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Yeah, awesome idea. How many thousands of man-hours is it going to cost to do?
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None....None thousand hours
http://valiance.shogn.net/forum/valiance-request/6-customize-minions
Maybe not the hero, but it would be cool to at least modify the pets. To my understanding, those VO people are planning to allow a minion creator which rivals the hero creator? Is that what those folks in the thread are talking about?
But check this out
http://valiance.shogn.net/forum/valiance-request/6-customize-minions?start=12#70
I suppose having some sort of non-human features are not as far-fetched as we may think. Different game, I am aware, but I am good with having sort of creator which allows the OP's request, being hero or pet. I believe CoT is looking into minion options as-well? Maybe we will get some sort of options, even if it is not for the hero. Not a deal breaker for me, but I wholly understand where the OP is coming from.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
My biggest problem with digitigrade legs is when artists try to apply them to Bipedal locomotion, instead of quadrupedal. Because only Birds do bipedal digitigrade for any period of time. Closest other, that I can think of, is Bears and they do NOT walk on two legs for long, or quickly.
The reason is that bipedal digitigrade is horribly inefficient. Worse, most artistic renderings of bipedal digitigrade legs are completely unbalanced. The poor wolf/cat/beast-person would Fall Over, if they didn't simply fall Down, with legs that ignore gravity like that.
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From a technical/implementation point they are saying that both the hero and the minion "creators" will use the exact same system just that they will have different UI's and a somewhat different selection of options. I've gathered that they will overlap mostly in the human (humanoid?) selections.
Not sure if MWM will take this route as well but it wouldn't surprise me if they did, so if they do then the major difference in minion customization between these two games will be rooted in the differences in character customization as a whole.
I'm sure MWM has said that quadraped minions will be implemented, just that they won't be getting the same range of customization as humanoid minions will, which won't get as wide range of customization as PC's. If quadraped minions will be an option when they release pet classes is another thing, and I don't think it will be but I'm hoping it will.
And there you have it. Something for Nothing.
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This is true.. but neither can people ignore gravity and fly under their own power, or shoot lasers out of their eyes--and digitigrade legs on bestial heroes, villains, and monsters is a classic and common comic book trope.
I do see your point, I just don't think it is an applicable criticism in this particular case given the genre conventions. More of a pet peeve--which I have a few of myself so I totally understand :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
To add, don't forget expending several orders of magnitude more energy than what they take in, that we can verify, when they battle or do similar stuff.
Everything doesn't have to follow our "laws of physics", it just have to be consistently applied.
I'd simply like to see the legs more realistically drawn. Also, can we not do the 'Hulk Hunch' posture? It doesn't look comfortable, or natural. Let's just pay attention to kinesiology, right?
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Fireheart
Since when has comic books stuck with 100% realistic body proportions or real world physics when it comes to the implied motion of its characters?
Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see the artists assoicated with these books and games try their best to "get things right" as well. But on the other hand we're probably always going to have cases like the one highlighted in the following pic where it looks like someone was comparing/contrasting Sailor Moon's drawn proportions (on the left) to that of a perhaps more "real life human" version of her (on the right):
[img=400x400]http://pre06.deviantart.net/4b4f/th/pre/f/2014/229/8/4/sailor_moon_crystal_character_design_by_peace_choi-d7vitj4.png[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I would certainly love to see this implimented. It just gives more options, but I believe the issues with the legs in CoH was the same issue with why there weren't many non-humanoid enemies in the game. I believe the base system in place have all NPCs and PCs being human and not flexible, but the team did try hard by making creatures like the Snakes in the Rogue Islands and I had noticed when fighting Hydra that I could see a small human head on the basic model.
With these new games (City of Titans and Valiance Online) the creators should be able to put in some more interesting and unique character models for the game. I can't wait to see what the City of Titans people bring us. I've already been playing the Pre-Alpha of Valiance Online and it's quite promising so far, but staying on topic i believe that instead of simply "Beast legs" or something it should give you the option to change between Plantigrade and Digitigrade or even Unguligrade which would suit making a character that looks similar to [url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=631407689]this one[/url] from Dreamfall Chapters to allow more choice for odd-looking humanoid creatures that could be of any origin like mutant, creature from another world, alien, demon and anything else that comes to our creative minds :)
It's not really a question of if they "can" create these different body types. The modern SW techology will certainly allow for it and I'm sure the artistic Devs involved could accomplish it. The real question almost always boils down to whether they have the time and/or money to do it. We certainly know that money is a limiting factor for MWM at the moment.
The only reason CoT will likely stick to "normal human" body shapes at least for launch is that it would be far easier to focus on that one primary body type for all the necessary animations and costuming issues related to it. Every time you have to deal with another fundamental body shape in a game like this you have to produce all the other associated graphics functionality to support it which simply is not a trivial task.
So CoT might eventually get all the "snake people" and other leg configurations you're talking about here. But I just would not automatically assume that any of those extra things will make it to the game by launch day.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I can imagine they might be able to do one or two of the leg configurations, but of course I'm not expecting them to have EVERY option. Even CoH had added MANY body parts all over the years and costume pieces that were never in the game at launch. Some being added via suggestions and others based on events and things like when they added Cimmeria and the roman-like robes they brought in. I remember how awesome it was when they brought in Wings as a costume slot, but it was hilarious seeing demonic beings as heroes and angelic beings as villains. Eitherway, as I said I totally agree I don't expect these to be at launch, but mentioning it early may get it put on the Dev's radar.
Just bear in mind the CoH Devs had 8.5 years after the game's launch to accomplish many of those cool extra things. While we can hope it won't take as long for the CoT Devs it's likely going to take multiple years for certain things regardless.
I had always envisioned my original main character in CoH having flapping demonic wings and an animated pointy tail. It took her about 2.5 years to get the wings and something like 5+ years to get the tail. I suppose good things come to those who wait. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I really can't wait and I'm certain the Devs will want to bring us as many options as possible, but will also need to realistically focus on having an actual game and then focus on many more different costume parts at a later date. Certainly not as long as CoH, but I agree it will certainly take a little time. Especially depending on how funding goes.