I'd love to see this and I know that it's possible with the UR4 Engine.
Imagine you with your team charge into a building ready to beat the heroes to a smoldering pile of dust.
In your epic battle a hero gets hit by a a fireball, thrown back into a pillar which collapses on him.
Office cubicles are stomped down and debris is scatterd around the room. The chaos! The destruction!
Things like this give a lot more feeling to the game, it makes you feel that the watercooler in the corner is actually a watercooler and not an indestructible, immovable titanium block.
Of course, I see that this won't work in the open world, because obviously you'll have those guys going around wrecking the whole map. But while in a closed (maybe open) instance I see little reason not to do this. Although it'll probably be rather pc heavy for a MMO.
Just wanted to mention this I curious if this is a possibility
If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought.
I would point out that in City of Heroes, the [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mayhem_Mission]Mayhem Missions[/url] were essentially Chock-A-Block FULL of destructibles! The whole point of a Mayhem Mission was to [b]BLOW STUFF UP![/b] until there was nothing left on the map to smash and grab.
The mechanics of destructible environment stuff was then later incorporated in the [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/The_Protest_Event]Protest Event[/url] in Nova Praetoria, with the twist that you could either destroy the objects yourself or needed to prevent the destruction of the objects by NPCs that kept spawning in. This would be an example of an Open World PvE Event in which destructible environment "stuff" would appear.
So there's two examples of having a destructible environment be a part of the game ... one instanced ... one an open world event.
And if [url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/world-pve-control-points-city-titans]Control Points[/url] ever became a feature of City of Titans, I would fully expect destructible environment bits to be a very significant component of the PvEvP "tug of war" design for such features, so as to better deliver the kind of "street sweeping battles" you'd expect such events to be.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Yeah the CoH Devs really pushed the limits of what they could do with "destructible" environments with the tools they had available and for what it was worth it was fairly cool.
I don't know how much the CoT Devs have planned along these lines but at least the software tech they have available now is much more capable of handling these kinds of things. I suspect as CoT gets up and running we'll eventually see many examples of "player modifiable" elements throughout the game world.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I have seen it hinted at by devs here and there when the topic came up. From what I understood we might even get destructible walls in mission maps.
destructible environment? definitely would be nice to see in an instanced mission. open world would be cool too, but I can see problems arising from that though so I would be perfectly ok if it didn't have destructible items.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
Destructible is good but not good enough
Yeah it's awesome knocking a bad guy through a wall
But I want to pick up a street light and break it over his head
I want the objects to be not just destructible but fully interactive.
and I know you can do it because the did it in Freedom Force which was out before COH.
Let the bad guy throw a freekin car through the wall to take me out by surprise
I'll be alright I regenerate.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
CO has it where you can pick up cars, streetlights, etc and throw them at people/things.
While I think it would be a great idea and something worth trying. I'd rather we get a game out first and then expand upon it later. So for me, this would maybe be some kind of an expansion for a later date. I can't imaging how much coding would be involved to try to make this happen at launch. Sometimes I think we are getting a little too "Reach for the stars" happy and are trying to request too many things from the Devs. How bout we just request a working game that we can play and start with and then go from there?
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Hey man, we gotta dream.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
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One thing about the whole "pick up cars, streetlights, fire hydrants etc and use them as improvised weapons" thing puzzles me. The question is, how would one define if a character is able to pull off such a feat?
A strength stat we will not even have, so what else? The only thing we have is powers.
Maybe this could be a build in thing for the super strength attack set? A power that is called "improvise" or something, that lets you pick up one of those items and gives you bonus damage for a few attacks until that item breaks? Kind of like a build up power, that not only modifies your damage but gives your character a improvised weapon to wield as a visual effect for his attacks?
There's dreaming ... and then there's letting the Perfect be the enemy of the Good Enough (to keep building on).
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Depends on if the player will be able to get new powers as the game progresses or if they're stuck with what they choose at the beginning. Either way, there probably should be some objects in the environment that even a player without some sort of super strength could use if the game was going to do this.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
My suggestion for lifting goes like this:
Strength as a tertiary power Lifts 1 ton Paladin
Strength as a secondary Power Lifts 10 tons Spider-Man
Strength as a Primary Power Lifts 100 tons The Hulk
Strength with Enhancements & Buffs Lifts anything Superman
Of course this is just a starting place. The devs (God bless'em) would have to work out the details.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
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What about heroes and villains that want to be badass normals?
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
Max out at 1 - 1 1/2 tons.
There is a difference between lifting something and swinging it around as a weapon. For a game based on superheroes I will not demand (nor want) realism but anything much bigger than a car as melee weapon for a human sized being would overstretch my suspension of disbelief a little.
And if we just say characters who happen to have super strength as powerset are able to do more than characters who do not, we would have to implement something the other powersets can do to stair fair. A special move for every set. And that strikes me as a bit much work...
In this scenario: Not pick super strength. And since super strength is a powerset which is supposed to make your character look... well super strong, like Superman and the Hulk, I guess you would not want that anyway for a badass normal character...
I don't know if one has to be that strong to have super strength as a super power.
No, I wouldn't consider someone such as Captain America or Batman, who are supposed to be peak human strength (though I'd argue Captain America's peak human strength surpasses Batman's :p) who someone like Spider-Man would have real Super Strength.
Rogue at 50 tons is super strength but no where the levels of Hulk or Superman.
I agree that there is a difference between lifting something and swinging it around as a weapon
You can also push more than you can lift
push more on wheels than on the ground
push more downhill or on flat ground than uphill
frankly I'm not sure how detailed we want or need it
or are able to make it.
As I said, this is just a starting point.
but I think it's a good starting point because how much you can lift is the main measure of strength that most people think of.
Thanks "Marvel Universe Handbook".
as for people who want to be strong but not super strong,
COH had a power set called fitness which could put you at around 1000 lbs
any superhero should probably be stronger than an average dude so expect the starting point for heroes to be 500 lbs or vary according to Arch Type
While a typical normal person struggles with a weight of just 100 lbs.
as for Rogue lifting 50 tons which is more than Spider-man but less than the Hulk
Enhancements and buffs
Now I know what you're thinking:
"Everyone is going to want enhancements, so who's going to have the base strength?"
"Everyone who starts out as Spider-man will be Rogue in no time."
See I'm Telepathic.
It's possible that only serious role players will keep their strength where they "should"
but really what's he harm in interpreting the characters a little differently?
I once played a pen and paper game that started in the Marvel Universe, using Marvel Superheroes RPG, then moved to the DC Universe and the DC Heroes System. When we moved to DC everyone got stronger because it was just a different system.
besides that, You're NOT supposed to play Spider-man anyway.
You'll get hit with the Nerf Bat!
Will Smith will punch you and say "Welcome to Nerf"
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Would this not also be classified as an RP thing with the previously mentioned strength limitations?
The problem with it is that players will undoubtedly have their own interpretations on amount their characters can lift. For example, I remember a couple of instances in which players would use Super Strength, but not have Super Strength as an IC power, mainly because the power set was as close to boxing as one could get at the time, at least before Street Justice came out.
If strength were to be regulated to each power set, then certain players would feel like their character capabilities were hampered from their original concept. Captain Atom, for example, can lift well in excess of the Class 100 strength level, but arguably his power set would mean the Super Strength aspect of his character would be a tertiary move pool, and Energy Blast would be his primary.
Not to mention the fact that implementing a weaponisation engine into the game is complicated enough to balance, but also not likely to work with the functionality of the game.
I say this in the broadest sense mainly because City of Heroes still played drastically different to its counterparts of DCUO and Champions, and if CoT is to play more like CoH, then the game will not lend itself well to the idea of weaponisation. Running off to pick up an object to use in combat benefits the player better in more action based games. I will agree, using the environment to your advantage is a bit of a staple to the genre, but in regards to the system as it is, I feel that using it would provide more problems for the player than one would realise.
For example, in DCUO, a character could pick up a bus and throw it at their opponent. The defending character then has a certain amount of time between the bus leaving the hands of the attacker and reaching their position to hit the dodge button and move out of the way. This works, because the game is based around mechanics like this.
In Champions, players would be hit all the time anyway, except for bigger, more elaborate attacks, which they also have the capability to move out of the way from.
In City of Heroes, a mechanic like this would be complex. A character would have to find the bus, pick up the bus, and then throw it, but rely on their Accuracy and To-Hit to ensure the bus hits its mark and not fly off into the ether. It seems like a fair bit of effort by comparison, and a little imbalanced by comparison too.
In all three examples, the problem existed in that there was a good chance you would deal more damage at a faster rate with what you could already do without taking into account the use of throwable items.
The imbalance comes in with the fact that each of these items has to deal a certain amount of damage and act a certain way, each and every one of them. Cities tend to be filled with items like this, so it becomes a lot of work to go through already built maps, changing certain pieces of scenery to be usable, and having a specific stat based on its classification.
Picking up a lamp post might have a better attack rate than a mailbox, and with better range, it becomes the must have object on the street. It would be possible for an entire metagame would be spawned through this system.
Also, imbalance comes about from the classification system you proposed. If an Enforcer takes Super Strength, his limit would be 100 tons. Examples of this would be a 767 jet or a Cargo Jet, with lesser weights being things like tanks, semi trucks, humpback whales and the like. If weight plays a big part in how much damage these items can muster, would that mean that freshly made level 1 Enforcers would have access to damage far beyond their capabilities?
As for destructible environments in general, I can see this working. Cars exploding by being caught in an AoE blasts, or anarchists just having a fun day would definitely be viable, and the level of collateral damage could possibly be taken into account in the current iteration of the morality system.
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
How about [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z84lFV7qLTk&t=142]THIS[/url] as an example of Super Strength?
Some of us remember [i]Bionics[/i] from the 70s ... (thank you [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6bUeFwbKIQ]Steve Austin[/url] and [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wd6IuVya4M]Jaime Sommers[/url]).
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
If we assume that CoT will eventually allow us to use objects in the environment as weapons it might be far easier to keep things abstract as far as "character strength" and/or "object mass" goes. I'd also suggest we not worry about the differences between merely being able to lift a heavy object versus being able to effectively use that object as a weapon. Basically let's keep it as simple as we can.
I'd suggest a simple weight scale for every movable object be measured via five generic strength classes:
Average humans would have Class 1 strength. This means they have the strength to wield class 1 weighted items.
Class 2 strength people could wield things like mailboxes or motorcycles (these things being class 2 weighted items).
Class 3 strength people could toss around full sized cars (these things being class 3 weighted items).
Class 4 strength people could toss around 18-wheeler trucks (these things being class 4 weighted items).
Class 5 strength people could toss around main-line battle tanks (these things being class 5 weighted items).
So every character would then have a standalone "Environmental Strength" rating valued from 1 to 5 which would allow them to wield as a weapon any object of that weight class or lighter.
The problem then becomes how do player characters choose/determine their own strength class? Do they get stronger as they gain levels? What if you want to have a superstrong character at level one? How does the game maintain combat balance over this? My suggestion for this would be that everyone starts off with class 3 strength as a default. In effect the game would need to be geared on the assumption that everyone has (and regularly uses) their class 3 strength in combat. But if during character creation you choose to be weaker or stronger than class 3 you will either gain a set advantage (for weaker) or disadvantage (for stronger).
For instance let's say you choose to have only a class 1 strength. This essentially means you won't really be able to use anything massive in the environment as a weapon. In exchange for that loss you might gain say a global +10% bonus to XP gain or maybe a +10% bonus to ACC or some such. On the other hand if you want to have class 5 strength you'll have to accept some sort of disadvantage for that ability like a -10% XP penalty or maybe a -20% to all earned INF (for having the rep of breaking huge chunks of the city all the time). Obviously the bonus/penalty for choosing strength class 2 or 4 would be less drastic and also the exact nature of the bonus/penalty would be based on what the Devs would consider fair either way.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That can definitely work, I can see the value of keeping everyone at those levels. However, I would say that a bonus or penalty to XP would be best avoided, as most players might simply choose class 1 while levelling and then Respect into class 5 when at max. I would say a penalty/bonus to accuracy and/or attack rate would be better.
On top of that, perhaps this system would benefit from non-combat based mechanics, especially for heroic work, such as moving debris to rescue trapped civilians, or helping shift emergent supplies? Perhaps lifting things isn't restricted to a single item, and higher classes can shift more boxes as it were? Villains in bank heists could theoretically carry more loot, if not the entire safe by themselves.
I might elaborate more later, just got into work and typing on a iPhone is uncomfortable
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
Yeah as I mentioned the exact nature of what the Devs might use to regulate a player's choice of strength rating is completely up to what the Devs would work out. The key idea was that there should be a way for the Devs to balance out the combat effects of normal human strength versus superpowered strength via having pros and cons for each of those things.
Another thing this kind of simple scale system would allow for are new kinds of debuff effects that might temporarily reduce a PC or NPC's strength rating. That would make things interesting if a strength class 5 guy who's used to running around tossing buses at MOBs suddenly gets hit with the "kryponite ray" that makes him weak as a kitten. Obviously you could also have items/potions that could temporarily boost strength a few points as well that would be helpful for your non-combat ideas.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Just for the record, Olympic Weightlifting records from 2012 are in the 350-400 pound range. And this is with a barbell. an object designed to be lifted. :) Any human that can do even 1/4 of a ton would be plenty badass by any realistic standard.
Whole ton? Even a half? Super-human.
What about those supposed reports of people being able to lift cars enough to free trapped victims in extreme car crashes? As the theory goes people with hyper doses of adrenaline can lift improbably heavy things for at least a few seconds. I honestly don't know if any of that has been scientifically proven but at least the urban legends are out there.
Besides as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Men]Mystery Men[/url] has taught us:
The Spleen: What? What are you talking about? You lifted a bus once!
The Blue Raja: Yes, precisely! That story's legend'ry!
Mr. Furious: Yeah... It was really more of a...
[waves hand sideways]
Mr. Furious: ... a push, really, than a lift.
The Spleen: That still takes INCREDIBLE super-human strength.
The Blue Raja: Indeed, it does! To push an entire bus out of the way.
Mr. Furious: Well, actually, the driver kinda had his foot on the accelerator... JUST in the beginning; just to get it going. Then it actually was me. But he kinda...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
What about louis cyr? He was pretty strong
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
[url=http://www.foodworldnews.com/articles/14356/20150205/hafthor-bjornsson-viking-game-of-thrones-the-mountain-breaks-1-000-year-old-viking-record-video.htm]Hafthor Bjornsson Viking: ‘Game Of Thrones’ The Mountain Breaks 1,000 Year-Old Viking Record! [VIDEO][/url]
For the calculator impaired, 650kg = ~1430lbs ... and is well past half a ton.
And yes, the video shows him taking 5 steps carrying that weight on his shoulders ... and surviving.
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Hate to be picky but he only effectively "pulled" that log along those rails - it's hard to say if he really "lifted" it much more than necessary to overcome the resting inertia and friction. Still impressive for a technically "non super powered" human at any rate. Now if he had somehow clean lifted that log even as much as a few inches that would've been amazing.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That is very impressive, I would have to admit.
Still, I would have to say the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Cyr]Canadian Samson holds pretty impressive feats[/url]
The kicker is that in addition to being so strong, he also worked with the police for a short time, meaning that he technically was a genuine superhero :P
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
I don't know. I'm really not a big fan of the idea of destructible environment and being able to pick things up and swing them around. If I were a bad guy I can see doing this and understand it, but if I'm a good guy I wouldn't. The good guy is trying to NOT destroy things. Now I know what you are going to say, "Look at the battle between Zod and Superman! They destroyed a good chunk of Metropolis!". Yes, yes. I know. And I'm sure Supes was really upset about the amount of damage that was done to the city. I'm sure he'd like to do whatever he could to fix it all. If we have destructible environments I can just see people running amok and destroying everything they can. Picking up lamp posts out of the ground for the heck of it and then just tossing them to the side like toothpicks. This can't be good for the city. Who's going to clean it all up and then put it all back so the citizens can see at night when they drive down the road to avoid all the random pot holes put in the ground from people Foot Stomping every five seconds?
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
But the whole 'rip up a stop sign and use it to tie up the villain' is traditional!
I am going to have to disagree with the starting weight being 500lbs for heroes. Most heroes who lack enhanced strength of some degree will lift less than that.
A lot of X-Men are rated at normal human strength for someone who does a regular work out. Normal workout and normal human, not likely to be over twice their weight. Not that I think the game will know one's strength level and we have no idea if they'll have stat levels (would love it myself) for such things, but 500 doesn't seem to be the good starting point for me.
That said, 500 and lower may just mean piddly in the end anyways :p
I am still not a fan of the idea to give characters with super strength a bonus ability that nobody else can use. What do I get when super strength does not fit into my concept? The ability to pick up light stuff like a chair and use that for a weapon?
Well a chair is not a very useful weapon. It is way better than nothing but as a superhero I will likely have something better already. Like a magic sword or a gun or the ability to shoot laser beams from my eyes to only name a few.
For this to stay fair something like picking up a huge improvised weapon needs to be part of the powerset. Something like when you use the 'build up' power, your character picks up the next best thing and the other attacks of the set will now be animated as if the character swings the object as a weapon for a short time. This way it is only a graphic effect for a power. It would still look and feel like you are picking up a street light and use that to bash your foes, but it would be only a means for your character to boost his damage. Other sets will have their own way to achieve that and nobody will get special treatment just because he picked the right powerset.
Actually picking up stuff has disadvantages.
stuff breaks so most of the time you wont get to use it very much
and it's slow compared to almost any other attack
and it runs out (after it's all smashed, there's nothing left to pick up.)
you're fist might actually be better in single melee combat
objects would mostly be useful against groups, or for throwing,
and we're still not going to beat a blaster at ranged combat.
Finally if you're not a villain property damage can effect your rep and even alignment
We don't want it to get an unfair advantage
we want it because it's more realistic than super strong characters who can't lift anything and it's a lot of fun.
also don't forget that our opponents will be doing it to us so there's that.
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The time that it is useful is irrelevant. A short advantage is better than no advantage at all. And even if it slows you down and wont do you much good against single enemies, especially if they are agile, it is still a free AoE or ranged attack. And a ranged attack for nothing is worth a lot! Which I will not get, if I happen to create a character without super strength. I do not like to feel forced to pick super strength, if I want to compete.
Going to have to disagree. This being a trait of SS can just be part of having SS. If you want it, then grab SS.
Lutan does raise a fair point, but it depends on the actual usefulness of this aspect is.
There's balance between weaponisation being broken and useless..
If you want a system by which you use items in the world to throw about in combat, then there's going to have to be a valid reason as to why. The presence of a simple AoE attack that doesn't expend energy on your behalf is, as Lutan says, quite broken. You could potentially throw around everything within reach until the room is empty, but having not spent a single point of endurance, you are now at a huge advantage in comparison to your foe if they lack Super Strength themselves.
And, if we really wanted to get complicated, Psychic characters would have an advantage over SS users because they can do it [i]at range[/i]
So, the solution would be to have it expend endurance, right? Well, it certainly balances it out, since you're no longer dealing damage for free, but then how much damage is it dealing? If the damage is too much, it still remains imbalanced as you're dealing damage above your paygrade, and for a game that will play similarly to City of Heroes, i can only assume recharge rates will be a thing. Depending on how long it takes a character to pick up a thing and throw it, it could be dealing lots of damage and dealing it quickly.
If the damage is too little, then it runs the risk of being a feature that is unused. It would be easier and more efficient for the player to simply punch their target than it would be to bother finding the appropriate thing to hurl. Flavour-wise, it would be interesting, but mechanically almost defunct. This still holds one advantage, however, that would allow super strength characters to fill a hole that is inherent with the power set: a lack of range.
If the damage isn't as much as your normal attacks, then a normal combat situation wouldn't call for it, but what if there's a target that's out of range, and you happen to be of a specific build where you lack ranged attacks to supplement your character? Well, the game becomes almost impassable, especially if you don't have the travel powers to catch that pesky flier. The solution, then, would be to find whatever lies nearby and throw it.
SS had Hurl in its power set back in CoX, and it came with a -Fly debuff for that specific purpose. The damage wasn't spectacular, but it did the job; it allowed an all melee character to close the gap and do their job.
The problem [i]then[/i] becomes one of balance between other melee archetypes that might lack a ranged capability, or the same situation applied in a featureless room
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
It doesn't seem likely that the Devs would create an entire subsystem of "using environmental objects as weapons" and then restrict it to being used only by characters who select a specific powerset.
I probably wouldn't mind if a powerset called "Super Strength" had maybe some kind of extra bonus or unique advantage while using environmental objects as weapons. But being able to use those objects as weapons should be a baseline ability ANY character can do. Sure not everyone is going to be able to toss city buses around, but if you're desperate for a weapon then ANY character should be able to pick up a baseball-sized rock to throw at someone.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Okay ... Super Strength and Gravity Control.
Don't make me pull out a Titan Weapon on you. You wouldn't like the things I can do with a [url=http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//a/ac/TW_Railroad_Pike.jpg]Railroad Pike[/url] ... which, by definition, is a piece of the environment that's been ripped loose for use (from somewhere other than the City of Heroes setting, which featured ZERO level crossings with railway tracks!).
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
While CoH is always going to be the first place to start from when discussing suggestions for CoT I'll just point out that the "powersets" of CoT don't really need to be molded from exact analogs of CoH. For example will CoT even have or need a "Titan Weapons" powerset when you consider the expansion of power customization choices we'll have?
Regardless I see no specific need for a generic "environmental objects used as weapons" feature to be locked behind a handful of specific powersets as all. To me that can be a basic ability usable by anyone. Obviously some will be able to use it more effectively than others but that doesn't preclude anyone from trying it.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Hmmm.. I rather just SMASH. I'm not so patient to wait for the "Pickup the Car", the believable animation to play through.
Izzy just SMASH! ;)
If using Propel from Gravity Control, you get to experience the joy of CORPSE BLASTING! Boo-yah!
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[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Why don't we all just use [s]The Force?[/s]
Oh right, copyrights.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
If only George hadn't sold it to Disney.
He was pretty laid back about people referencing his work
Disney however uses piranha-mice for lawyers
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
One idea might be to put the ability to throw mailboxes and smash foes with streetlamps into a tertiary power set. That would allow anyone who would want the ability to get it without restricting the ability to just a few sets and/or classifications. Buy making it a purchased power it can hopefully be balanced against other such selections for power, end cost, etc.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
I would be fine with that. Good idea!
I'd feel better about it if anyone can pick up and throw stuff but stronger characters can pick up and throw heavier things.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
You know - I really wouldn't be too upset if we [I]couldn't[/I] pick up cars and throw them. I mean - it's a nice little gimmick they had in CO - but the thing is I NEVER actually used it in combat. It was just WAY easier to blast/punch stuff.
THAT SAID - it could be an interesting addition to a brawny character who has no real ranged attacks. So maybe as a feature of a strength power - with different max capability (and therefore damage) depending on whether the power is tertiary, secondary or primary? Maybe even extend a similar ability to certain "move object effect" powers like Telekinesis, Gravity Control, Magnetic Manipulation, Hard Light Constructs, various spells created by Bigby, etc......
Of course, this also begs the question - how ubiquitous to we want destructible objects? I sincerely doubt we will be able to knock over buildings in the main zone areas, but do we want throwable cars and street lamps, and breakable walls in the map zones, or do we want this kind of stuff restricted to missions or instances? Do we differentiate between stuff we can pick up and throw versus stuff we can simply break like walls or doors?
Another interesting thought - should characters receive a hit to his reputation or a bump to his violence stat for causing too much property damage? Hmmm....might cut down on the car-throwing contests in the starting zones - though the local car dealerships might appreciate the increased business lol.
I always got a bigger laugh out the Buick myself
Propel. Good times
Lay your hands on me
While I'm bleeding dry
Break on through blue skies
And take it high
Mayhem mishes rocked!
I would be fine with the base ability to say throw a trash can or the like. Lord knows, I'm no hero but I could lift and throw one. The problem is, how do you define "stronger character" without some kind of strength score? That's kind of the reasoning I had behind making it it's own tertiary set and let the player decide if they are strong enough regardless of their power selection or classification.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Syntax actually might be onto something by having environmental weapons as a tertiary power set, as it gives everyone the effective capability of Super Strength without tying in an additional mechanic altogether, and it keeps it separate from the core Super Strength pool in case you want such strength, but also want to be a martial artist to boot.
One way I could see it working would be like an adaptation of the Flashstep power they were going to give to blasters in issue 24, in which you can use it a certain amount of times in a short period before it forces a recharge. Let's say the first power in the set is something relatively light on the chart like a mailbox. You click the power button and that adds two powers to your tray: Smash and Throw. You can smash an enemy 2 or 3 times in melee range before the box breaks and you throw it aside, or you can use it as a ranged attack. After the mailbox is broken or thrown, the original power you activate to pick it up goes on moderate cool down. Each individual attack would have an associated endurance cost and each successive power in the pool would allow you to use progressively heavier items.
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See Post #13 Above
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
A tertiary powerset is a mighty fine idea. But would it be logical for a scrawny think-tank to be able to lift mass as the Hulk?
Maybe we could have the physique/weight cosmetic slider have some influence on what your maximum lift can be?
I do find it funny how this thread turned out. This wasn't my original thought but it sure does sound amazing.
I'd had in mind for exterior zones that all lanterns, mailboxes, statues, etc would be completely destroyable, and maybe have walls crumble/dent (depending on what they're made of, size, etc). The interior would actually behave more or less the same. I know this resembles the concept of a mayhem mission but, that's a mission not your everyday evironment and missions.
Giving the player a penalty/bonus to their reputation is a really interesting concept, which could limit the amount of destruction (or not).
The only thing that I can't wrap my head around is, how will respawns work without looking absolute derp.
If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought.
What if that scrawny think-tank uses telekinesis to augment his strength? What if the small frame is modified by superscience- cyberware? Or is a sentient robot, demigod, vampire, etc. with superhuman strength? There are lots of possibilities how one could explain being super strong without having to look super strong. So I think that the look should have nothing to do with how strong the character really is.
The tertiary power set syntaxerror37 suggested strikes me as the best idea until now.
Superman might not be "scrawny" but he's a lot smaller than the Hulk.
Same for Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, and the Silver Surfer
You know what else they all have in common.
They're stronger than the Hulk.
Size doesn't mean much in comic books.
Spider-man is a lot stronger than the Kingpin.
And Superman is stronger than Godzilla
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Hmmmm, yes you got a point there.
Although I do find that the tertiary power set is a good idea, the best idea here so far to be honest.
However I'm not sure I'd be prompted to spend power slots on getting them. Pulling a lantern out of the ground and throwing it a random villain crossing the street is really cool.
But I feel it should be more of a common thing to be able to do (if you want it).
I can't say I have a beautiful worked out alternative except for real complex sliders and complex calculations that handle mass, strength, weight, material?... that can be added for each costume. So you can be that small fragile scientist that hides in his titan battle suit.
This, to me, truly seems like a more accessible way of introducing something like this, although probably more difficult to get working.
If you realized how powerful your thoughts are, you would never think a negative thought.
I think the best way (though likely far from easiest!) to implement an Improvised Missile Power is through animation skins. If there are tertiary powers that do less damage than other tertiary powers, then they would be represented by trash cans, hub caps, potted plants, shoes, etc. More damaging tertiary powers, secondary powers, and primary powers would get increasingly more massive objects, as described in [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/85293#comment-85293]TheMightyPaladin's Post 13 Above[/url]. Now if we could find a way to use objects in the area as the source for the animation of the thrown object...
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I think getting it to work is not the problem at all. Balancing it is the big issue. To get an advantage, you have to pay something. And the only thing we have to balance are powers or...
Hmmm. There was talk about 'Power Set Augments' and static boosts for regeneration, travel speed and so on in this announcement: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/highway-danger-room
How about a strength- augment, that enables your character to use the heavier enviromental weapons?
Balance is one of the reasons I didn't want it to just be an inherent part of the CoT equivalent of super strength. Whether it was a primary, secondary, or tertiary, this extra ability would have to be balanced against all the other melee sets. Super strength would either have to be tuned down, or other sets tuned up. Either way, you end up making players unhappy. Making it an additional power, or as an augment (good idea by the way) that can be slotted into any melee power would make the balancing act a lot easier, and a lot more fair I believe.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
As I see it, Destructible items from the environment wont give you an overwhelming advantage in a fight.
So if its Optional, then it should be Purchasable.
The only thing I'm curious about is, How to Add it?
Should it only be available as a separate Powerset that can kick or punch object in the environment like a car or trash can, and it goes flying into the Foe dealing damage that way?
As well as directly punching or Kicking a foe Point Blank... and sending him/her flying into objects in the environment?
Well, actually.. I Do have reservations about having Too much Knockback in one powerset. Its no longer a Damage Melee set, Its a Controller powerset, and can get Old after some time. :/ Well, maybe not for some people.. that never get tired of seeing the NPC's ragdoll. ;)
Since it could be considered a Controller'ish powerset, Tank'ish archetypes might benefit from picking it. :|
Ahhh... just name it the BlockBuster melee powerset?! ;)
And, yes.. I know what you're going to say... Head Buts will Daze the Foe. :/
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Questions is:
- Is it OK to Segregate destructible objects that appear in the environment into a powerset that need to be Purchased...
...rather than having destructible objects be Free'ly available for All to kick/punch/throw?
TMP, I have two calls on hold for you. Line 1 is a group of piranha-mice complaining about being characterized as Disney lawyers and demanding a retraction. I'm not sure about Line 2, it's just someone screaming 'HULK IS STRONGEST ONE THERE IS' over and over again.