Death, respawning, and penalty

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TitansCity
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(I'm sorry, there is too much

(I'm sorry, there is too much posts to read them all si if what i'm saying has already been say, please, consider to erase this message ^^)

On a game i played a long time ago, i liked and also dislike the fact that when dead, i was obliged to take back my corpse to revive. But, and that's the point, even if i dislike the idea to make the trip back to my corpse and fight again an over powered monster for my level (or even a group of monsters because i was not on the "right" area of hte map), i liked the fact of being in "another world", like in a shadow world or underworld or ghost world (check the right answer).
What i mean is that death can be a good thing in certain moments. So the penalty (of not reviving now) can be something to explore as "Would you like to revive now, are you strong enougth to revive ? or do you want to go to the light to see what it is and explore this unknown world". Ok, it could be a quest than a normal setting of the player's death, i conceed. But, i think the idea could be a good idea :)

Now, about the penalty, i think it depends on "where" or "when" you died. Did you died in a mission or just in running outside ? did you died during a fight against a boss (like the paladin <3) in a mission, during a fight against a boss outside, did you died "by accident" falling from the top of a skycraper ? Depending on the context, does death penalty must be the same ? Should the death be something commun "i-don(-mind-dying-because-its-too-easy-to-recover" or a more "shit-i-must-really-be-careful-to-not-die-because-it-s-something-hard-to-recover-from" ? Thats the whole point ^^ (what a discover !!! youhou \o/ ).

To my mind :

    - A debt of HP was a good idea in CoH. You can decide to keep on figthing where you fail assuming you will have to pay the efforts in a matter or another
    - A temporary debuff (maybe "erasable" by a support) is also a good idea for the short moment after the rez. You pay your due with it but it's pretty hard to make a fair death penalty like that. Sometimes it's to light, sometimes too strong, depending on lots of elements (the class can "ignore" this penalty as it's not a main penalty foir this class, by example)
    - Having to repair gears is also a good idea, but there is no equipment in CoT...
    - HP penalty is not a good thing for me. Because it prevent people to face the fail of. "I can't return, i'll be killed in a second... i must wait before going... damned ! i must find something else to do... i'll stop this mission for a while"
    - Endurance menalty could be a better thing. In a logical way it is because you must rest before keep on going ! You just died dude ^^ Stay calm !
    - The penalty could be graduated by the amount of momemtum ? You could draw on your momentum reserves to counterbalance the penalty. Not that your momentum is not recahrging, but you can decide to make the effort to draw on it to "erase" a little the penalty so as to go in the fight quickly ?

That was my suggestion :)

Cinnder
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

The only reason anyone used getting defeated, on purpose, as a play style was because there were powers that required you to die to use them, or required dead bodies of allies to work (like Vengeance). If you made Fire AoE powers and team buff powers like those, but without the need for someone to get defeated, then there's no longer any need to commit suicide as part of your win strategy. Since there's no really pressing reason to tie defeat to the ability to activate a power, there's no really pressing need for using defeat as a strategy, is there? If the devs simply don't make powers that require you or a friend to be defeated to be able to activate them, then you won't have any reason to get defeated on purpose as a part of your strategy, right?

I never said it was a need, just a perfectly viable option that shouldn't be penalised. Even if there weren't powers that acted after defeat, some players might have RP reasons for dying in combat. There's also the hero who ends up getting killed while s/he holds off the hordes till teammates can escape or complete a mission goal. I don't think that sort of heroic behaviour should be discouraged through harsh penalties.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Radiac
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The thing that's heroic about

The thing that's heroic about throwing yourself on a grenade to save the day or standing on a crumbling bridge and saying "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!" to a giant demon is the fact that you're sacrificing something (in those cases, presumably your own life) for an altruistic purpose. The analog to that in an MMO is your character getting defeated. Therefore it stands to reason that if your character getting defeated doesn't really cost you anything or cause you any real loss of any kind, then there is no great heroism in sacrificing yourself anyway. I mean, you can still pretend, but everyone will have a good laugh about it basically. If my decision to "take one for the team" ends up with me just respawning in the sam eplace where I fell, without having lost anything, then it kind of takes the heroism out of the act.

I'm not arguing that toons should be deleted when you get defeated in a fight, but I think getting defeated ought to sting in some way in order to preserve the individual survival prerogative which I think is assumed by the devs when they create content. That is, the devs are writing content with the assumption that the players will actually try to do the content without getting defeated as a way to complete, bypass or otherwise circumvent the content.

I liked the debt system in CoX. I would just amend it to be IGC debt only for everyone, as the XP debt was pointless for level capped toons. Then scale the amount of debt as a function of character level. I also liked having to respawn at a remote location, partially because it gave you a reason to have an SG base.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

TitansCity
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I also liked having to respawn at a remote location, partially because it gave you a reason to have an SG base.

+1

ZeeHero
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Games are moving away from

Games are moving away from onerous death penalties and for good reason. Players don't need to be punished for being defeated, something they already dislike. FFXIV has a debuff applied to players who died and were raised which lasts about a minute or 2, which makes them deal a good deal less damage. this would be plenty, and has a mechanical reason for existing, unlike the old COH death penalty or the WoW one (when in the open world). it lowers raid dps when a player dies causing the group to be more likely to wipe to an enrage mechanic.

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Quick answer from Jazzhands,

Quick answer from Jazzhands, might be said multiple times or I´m the first. My number one hated penalty in Games is the 'repair equipment' mechanic. Balanced or not I simple dont like it.
Also i read earlier the 'corpse run', yes I dont like that either. In some points in some Game you revive with, lets say, 50% health and the mobs that killed you get a second chance to do so. So the CoX Hospital-Thing was actually better.
When it comes to Videogames we spend time to play, so the time spent to run to the mission again is okay. An Exp-loss is also very bitter.

Both the Ingame-Currency and EXP losses bends the attitude to: 'I do less so I dont get the aggro and die' or going with weak charakters into Dungeons so they can get stuff is also much more pain than gain.
I really hope they wont be a part of CoT, but in the end its your choice.

Hope my Thoughts can help!

"Walking down the street and you hear that heavy beat. You can't help but walk your feet, down all the way 'til we meet"~

blacke4dawn
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Jazzhands wrote:
Jazzhands wrote:

Quick answer from Jazzhands, might be said multiple times or I´m the first. My number one hated penalty in Games is the 'repair equipment' mechanic. Balanced or not I simple dont like it.
Also i read earlier the 'corpse run', yes I dont like that either. In some points in some Game you revive with, lets say, 50% health and the mobs that killed you get a second chance to do so. So the CoX Hospital-Thing was actually better.
When it comes to Videogames we spend time to play, so the time spent to run to the mission again is okay. An Exp-loss is also very bitter.

Both the Ingame-Currency and EXP losses bends the attitude to: 'I do less so I dont get the aggro and die' or going with weak charakters into Dungeons so they can get stuff is also much more pain than gain.
I really hope they wont be a part of CoT, but in the end its your choice.

Hope my Thoughts can help!

Last word from the devs has been that the worst penalty they will implement is a hospital run in the same way CoH had it. There has also been thoughts expressed about being able to rezz in-place on a long timer or, I believe, cash-shop consumables. Every character will also have an interruptable long-ish cast rezz to rezz others.

Jazzhands
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I like that. Hrm, when there

I like that. Hrm, when there is a final word, then it should be closed then?

"Walking down the street and you hear that heavy beat. You can't help but walk your feet, down all the way 'til we meet"~

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