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Death, respawning, and penalty

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TitansCity's picture
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
(I'm sorry, there is too much

(I'm sorry, there is too much posts to read them all si if what i'm saying has already been say, please, consider to erase this message ^^)

On a game i played a long time ago, i liked and also dislike the fact that when dead, i was obliged to take back my corpse to revive. But, and that's the point, even if i dislike the idea to make the trip back to my corpse and fight again an over powered monster for my level (or even a group of monsters because i was not on the "right" area of hte map), i liked the fact of being in "another world", like in a shadow world or underworld or ghost world (check the right answer).
What i mean is that death can be a good thing in certain moments. So the penalty (of not reviving now) can be something to explore as "Would you like to revive now, are you strong enougth to revive ? or do you want to go to the light to see what it is and explore this unknown world". Ok, it could be a quest than a normal setting of the player's death, i conceed. But, i think the idea could be a good idea :)

Now, about the penalty, i think it depends on "where" or "when" you died. Did you died in a mission or just in running outside ? did you died during a fight against a boss (like the paladin <3) in a mission, during a fight against a boss outside, did you died "by accident" falling from the top of a skycraper ? Depending on the context, does death penalty must be the same ? Should the death be something commun "i-don(-mind-dying-because-its-too-easy-to-recover" or a more "shit-i-must-really-be-careful-to-not-die-because-it-s-something-hard-to-recover-from" ? Thats the whole point ^^ (what a discover !!! youhou \o/ ).

To my mind :

    - A debt of HP was a good idea in CoH. You can decide to keep on figthing where you fail assuming you will have to pay the efforts in a matter or another
    - A temporary debuff (maybe "erasable" by a support) is also a good idea for the short moment after the rez. You pay your due with it but it's pretty hard to make a fair death penalty like that. Sometimes it's to light, sometimes too strong, depending on lots of elements (the class can "ignore" this penalty as it's not a main penalty foir this class, by example)
    - Having to repair gears is also a good idea, but there is no equipment in CoT...
    - HP penalty is not a good thing for me. Because it prevent people to face the fail of. "I can't return, i'll be killed in a second... i must wait before going... damned ! i must find something else to do... i'll stop this mission for a while"
    - Endurance menalty could be a better thing. In a logical way it is because you must rest before keep on going ! You just died dude ^^ Stay calm !
    - The penalty could be graduated by the amount of momemtum ? You could draw on your momentum reserves to counterbalance the penalty. Not that your momentum is not recahrging, but you can decide to make the effort to draw on it to "erase" a little the penalty so as to go in the fight quickly ?

That was my suggestion :)

Cinnder's picture
Last seen: 2 hours 59 min ago
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Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

The only reason anyone used getting defeated, on purpose, as a play style was because there were powers that required you to die to use them, or required dead bodies of allies to work (like Vengeance). If you made Fire AoE powers and team buff powers like those, but without the need for someone to get defeated, then there's no longer any need to commit suicide as part of your win strategy. Since there's no really pressing reason to tie defeat to the ability to activate a power, there's no really pressing need for using defeat as a strategy, is there? If the devs simply don't make powers that require you or a friend to be defeated to be able to activate them, then you won't have any reason to get defeated on purpose as a part of your strategy, right?

I never said it was a need, just a perfectly viable option that shouldn't be penalised. Even if there weren't powers that acted after defeat, some players might have RP reasons for dying in combat. There's also the hero who ends up getting killed while s/he holds off the hordes till teammates can escape or complete a mission goal. I don't think that sort of heroic behaviour should be discouraged through harsh penalties.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Radiac's picture
Last seen: 1 day 22 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/19/2013 - 15:12
The thing that's heroic about

The thing that's heroic about throwing yourself on a grenade to save the day or standing on a crumbling bridge and saying "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!" to a giant demon is the fact that you're sacrificing something (in those cases, presumably your own life) for an altruistic purpose. The analog to that in an MMO is your character getting defeated. Therefore it stands to reason that if your character getting defeated doesn't really cost you anything or cause you any real loss of any kind, then there is no great heroism in sacrificing yourself anyway. I mean, you can still pretend, but everyone will have a good laugh about it basically. If my decision to "take one for the team" ends up with me just respawning in the sam eplace where I fell, without having lost anything, then it kind of takes the heroism out of the act.

I'm not arguing that toons should be deleted when you get defeated in a fight, but I think getting defeated ought to sting in some way in order to preserve the individual survival prerogative which I think is assumed by the devs when they create content. That is, the devs are writing content with the assumption that the players will actually try to do the content without getting defeated as a way to complete, bypass or otherwise circumvent the content.

I liked the debt system in CoX. I would just amend it to be IGC debt only for everyone, as the XP debt was pointless for level capped toons. Then scale the amount of debt as a function of character level. I also liked having to respawn at a remote location, partially because it gave you a reason to have an SG base.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

TitansCity's picture
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
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Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I also liked having to respawn at a remote location, partially because it gave you a reason to have an SG base.