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Customizable Emblems?

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Hyperbolt
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Customizable Emblems?

Someone may have asked this before but it's something I've wanted to know. Is it possible to make your own hero emblem to some extent? A Superheroes Emblem is just as important as the rest of his/her suit. Superman has his big S and The Flash has his lightning bolt on top a white circle. Some of my heroes I'm creating for COT might have some unique emblems. It's not likely that emblems will be fully customizable, but are you guys planning on any type of customization on emblems? When I was on DCUO They had various emblems but you could only customize the color.

Foradain
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Yes and maybe no. It was one

Yes and maybe no. It was one of the add-ons available from the Kickstarter, but the consensus seems to be that making it generally available would likely require a great deal of dev attention to prevent obscene or locally illegal symbols, like that Hindu good-luck symbol that had the misfortune to be associated with the government of Germany about eighty-five years ago. This requirement may raise the cost significantly.

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Hyperbolt
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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Yes and maybe no. It was one of the add-ons available from the Kickstarter, but the consensus seems to be that making it generally available would likely require a great deal of dev attention to prevent obscene or locally illegal symbols, like that Hindu good-luck symbol that had the misfortune to be associated with the government of Germany about eighty-five years ago. This requirement may raise the cost significantly.

Oh yeah the Swastika, Well I'm sure there will have to be some limits.

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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Yes and maybe no. It was one of the add-ons available from the Kickstarter, but the consensus seems to be that making it generally available would likely require a great deal of dev attention to prevent obscene or locally illegal symbols, like that Hindu good-luck symbol that had the misfortune to be associated with the government of Germany about eighty-five years ago. This requirement may raise the cost significantly.

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Dark Ether
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This could be ultimately a

This could be ultimately a huge problem area unless the symbols were submitted and approved beforehand and then placed in game so that the design could not be altered in any way. You just know that some kid would whine about how his character would not be the same without his personal emblem. "Why? What's his name?" "The Enormous Schwanzstucker."

You *know* that would happen.

(insert pithy comment here)

Hyperbolt
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Maybe you guys could make an

Maybe you guys could make an assortment of emblem "pieces". Example: Making an archer named Blue Arrow: Piece #1. a circle, Piece #2. The letter B, Piece #3. A diagonal arrow. What I'm saying is make lots of pieces so that the player can choose among those pieces to construct an emblem.

Dark Ether
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Now layering could be a thing

Now layering could be a thing, for sure. It would all depend on how it was set up, but selectable colors for each piece and layering of a few over one another could do a lot. There would have to be 'clear' available as a color, though, so that you could arrange the overlay properly.

(insert pithy comment here)

Hyperbolt
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Dark Ether wrote:
Dark Ether wrote:

Now layering could be a thing, for sure. It would all depend on how it was set up, but selectable colors for each piece and layering of a few over one another could do a lot. There would have to be 'clear' available as a color, though, so that you could arrange the overlay properly.

Yeah, we wouldn't want the arrow to cover the letter...unless someone wants it that way but I doubt it.

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Ah, yes, Captain Beeline and

Ah, yes, Captain Beeline and his B➜ insignia...

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Huckleberry
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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Yes and maybe no. It was one of the add-ons available from the Kickstarter, but the consensus seems to be that making it generally available would likely require a great deal of dev attention to prevent obscene or locally illegal symbols, like that Hindu good-luck symbol that had the misfortune to be associated with the government of Germany about eighty-five years ago. This requirement may raise the cost significantly.

I don't think there was any consensus on that at all.

In fact, the discussion got quite polarized.
I, for one, don't think it will be much of a cost to manage at all since I don't believe pre-approval makes any business sense. Rather, I believe it should be managed by other players reporting if they see something offensive. If the Devs include a warning in the Avatar Builder that any inappropriate character designs will be removed and could result in penalties up to and including account suspension, then that covers their legal butts.

No matter whether the game is rated E for everyone, T for Teen or M for Mature, there will always be the same disclaimer that online interactions are unrated, just like every MMO has ever done.

So there isn't going to be a dev reading all the chat full time to see if someone is being offensive. No, there is a report system for poor behavior or inappropriate character names, and so it should be no further effort to add inappropriate character designs to the list of reportable items. Because I guarantee you that someone will try to make a character with a phallus for a head. The devs can't catch everything, and if they try they will put themselves out of business.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Cobalt Azurean
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Foradain wrote:
Yes and maybe no. It was one of the add-ons available from the Kickstarter, but the consensus seems to be that making it generally available would likely require a great deal of dev attention to prevent obscene or locally illegal symbols, like that Hindu good-luck symbol that had the misfortune to be associated with the government of Germany about eighty-five years ago. This requirement may raise the cost significantly.
I don't think there was any consensus on that at all.
In fact, the discussion got quite polarized.
I, for one, don't think it will be much of a cost to manage at all since I don't believe pre-approval makes any business sense. Rather, I believe it should be managed by other players reporting if they see something offensive. If the Devs include a warning in the Avatar Builder that any inappropriate character designs will be removed and could result in penalties up to and including account suspension, then that covers their legal butts.
No matter whether the game is rated E for everyone, T for Teen or M for Mature, there will always be the same disclaimer that online interactions are unrated, just like every MMO has ever done.
So there isn't going to be a dev reading all the chat full time to see if someone is being offensive. No, there is a report system for poor behavior or inappropriate character names, and so it should be no further effort to add inappropriate character designs to the list of reportable items. Because I guarantee you that someone will try to make a character with a phallus for a head. The devs can't catch everything, and if they try they will put themselves out of business.

I dunno... I could be hired on the cheap to blue banhammer the stupid out of people... >8)

In all seriousness though, I agree with what you're saying. And I think customizable emblems with be a nifty perk for the respective supporters. I had forgotten it was a KS thing, to be honest.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Foradain wrote:
Yes and maybe no. It was one of the add-ons available from the Kickstarter, but the consensus seems to be that making it generally available would likely require a great deal of dev attention to prevent obscene or locally illegal symbols, like that Hindu good-luck symbol that had the misfortune to be associated with the government of Germany about eighty-five years ago. This requirement may raise the cost significantly.
I don't think there was any consensus on that at all.
In fact, the discussion got quite polarized.
I, for one, don't think it will be much of a cost to manage at all since I don't believe pre-approval makes any business sense. Rather, I believe it should be managed by other players reporting if they see something offensive. If the Devs include a warning in the Avatar Builder that any inappropriate character designs will be removed and could result in penalties up to and including account suspension, then that covers their legal butts.
No matter whether the game is rated E for everyone, T for Teen or M for Mature, there will always be the same disclaimer that online interactions are unrated, just like every MMO has ever done.
So there isn't going to be a dev reading all the chat full time to see if someone is being offensive. No, there is a report system for poor behavior or inappropriate character names, and so it should be no further effort to add inappropriate character designs to the list of reportable items. Because I guarantee you that someone will try to make a character with a phallus for a head. The devs can't catch everything, and if they try they will put themselves out of business.

I'm fast, I could seek out all offensive symbols in game and report them before you can say "Where did he go?"
Seriously, whenever I'm in game I will try to report whatever offensive symbols I see. Hyperbolt: Hall Monitor Against Offensive Symbols reporting for duty (salutes 300 times per min)

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

In all seriousness though, I agree with what you're saying. And I think customizable emblems with be a nifty perk for the respective supporters. I had forgotten it was a KS thing, to be honest.

To be fair to @Foradain, the kickstarter perk wasn't just a custom emblem.
It was working "with one [the MWM] artists to design an exclusive emblem for your personal use, supergroup or share with friends anywhere that emblem may be applied. (chest, spotlight, base decorations.)"
It was the Iconic add-on for $150.

There's a big difference between that and making your own emblem with whatever tools are included in the Avatar Builder.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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*looks at the thread*

*looks at the thread*

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Dark Ether
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Tease.

Tease.

(insert pithy comment here)

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The game Warframe allows a

The game Warframe allows a completely customized Clan symbol added to the game. You submit the symbol and it is reviewed, and modified (if required for whatever reason) and added to the game. Of course I've no idea what their internal process is, but at least at the Clan (Super Group) level they manage to do it.

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Something about this seems

Something about this seems like a perfectly reasonable cash shop item to me.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

To be fair to @Foradain, the kickstarter perk wasn't just a custom emblem.
It was working "with one [the MWM] artists to design an exclusive emblem for your personal use, supergroup or share with friends anywhere that emblem may be applied. (chest, spotlight, base decorations.)"
It was the Iconic add-on for $150.
There's a big difference between that and making your own emblem with whatever tools are included in the Avatar Builder.

You said earlier in this thread that "I don't believe pre-approval makes any business sense." Does this mean you would be against something like the Iconic Kickstarter add-on if that deal was resurrected/reworked into a service buyable after launch in the in-game store? If the Devs provide this service as defined then "pre-approval" is pretty much implied as a given.

I understand that you feel that in-game policing by GMs should be enough to handle the random idiot who'd want to custom design an offensive symbol for their outfits. In a perfect world I would agree, I'm just not sure we're collectively mature enough for that yet.

It could very easily come down to either having no customized symbols (due to the fear of offensive examples) OR being able to get customized symbols through some kind of vetted mechanism like the Iconic add-on. Given that scenario the latter would at least be more than we had in CoH.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

You said earlier in this thread that "I don't believe pre-approval makes any business sense." Does this mean you would be against something like the Iconic Kickstarter add-on if that deal was resurrected/reworked into a service buyable after launch in the in-game store? If the Devs provide this service as defined then "pre-approval" is pretty much implied as a given.
I understand that you feel that in-game policing by GMs should be enough to handle the random idiot who'd want to custom design an offensive symbol for their outfits. In a perfect world I would agree, I'm just not sure we're collectively mature enough for that yet.
It could very easily come down to either having no customized symbols (due to the fear of offensive examples) OR being able to get customized symbols through some kind of vetted mechanism like the Iconic add-on. Given that scenario the latter would at least be more than we had in CoH.

Hell no I wouldn't be against making that service available for all for a fee. I think there would be enough whales to pay $150 for it to make it worth developer's time. And I would back you if you wanted to propose it.

But for the rest of us who just want to put a star on our chest that is different than everyone else's chest stars, I don't think it makes business sense to get it preapproved.

And I do believe that we are collectively mature enough to police ourselves. Just look at all the sjw's out there in the world. For every idiot that wants to put a swastika on his sleeve there will be a dozen players who will report him. I don't think we'll have anything to worry about.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Hell no I wouldn't be against making that service available for all for a fee. I think there would be enough whales to pay $150 for it to make it worth developer's time. And I would back you if you wanted to propose it.

I think many others (including myself) have already suggested this in these forums for years now. ;)

Huckleberry wrote:

But for the rest of us who just want to put a star on our chest that is different than everyone else's chest stars, I don't think it makes business sense to get it preapproved.

I'd agree that there might be a valid question between "simple" custom designs and "complex" ones. An intricate design might be hard enough to make $150 "justifiable" whereas it might be overkill to ask for $150 for a simple (although unique) star shape. But given that we are talking about special Dev handling either way it's debatable that any level of customization like this needs to be relatively expensive for the players regardless. Remember the cost involved is itself a mechanic to prevent the Devs from getting overwhelmed by thousands of orders - only people who "really, really" want them will submit designs.

Huckleberry wrote:

And I do believe that we are collectively mature enough to police ourselves. Just look at all the sjw's out there in the world. For every idiot that wants to put a swastika on his sleeve there will be a dozen players who will report him. I don't think we'll have anything to worry about.

I'd agree that the random "idiot with a swastika" would likely get reported/disciplined fairly quickly. But if things like that are even allowed in the game, however briefly, the game could get a negative rap for it. I'm just not sure that the overwhelming love/desire for "unlimited customization" is enough to justify having a game with no restrictions whatsoever. If I can accept the game will not allow me to have a character named "Superman" I can also accept that it would prevent me from slapping a swastika on his chest as well. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I'd agree that the random "idiot with a swastika" would likely get reported/disciplined fairly quickly. But if things like that are even allowed in the game, however briefly, the game could get a negative rap for it. I'm just not sure that the overwhelming love/desire for "unlimited customization" is enough to justify having a game with no restrictions whatsoever. If I can accept the game will not allow me to have a character named "Superman" I can also accept that it would prevent me from slapping a swastika on his chest as well. *shrugs*

We've been down this path before. Let's agree to disagree. Otherwise I point you back to this one of several threads that have beat this argument to death already. The ability to parse a text string for groupings that match a watchlist is orders of magnitude simpler than identifying potentially offensive images, and can be automated too. Whereas examining images would take human effort(with today's technology). I'd rather see MWM outsource that effort to their playerbase than take developer resources to do it.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lothic
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

We've been down this path before. Let's agree to disagree. Otherwise I point you back to this one of several threads that have beat this argument to death already. The ability to parse a text string for groupings that match a watchlist is orders of magnitude simpler than identifying potentially offensive images, and can be automated too. Whereas examining images would take human effort(with today's technology). I'd rather see MWM outsource that effort to their playerbase than take developer resources to do it.

I know we've been here before - I'm simply saying it's likely "better safe than sorry" in this case. If the only way players can get customized logos into the game is via vetted submissions then the supposed "extra human effort" of checking them is incorporated into the overall Dev effort to add them to the game in the first place.

Let's let the GMs worry about in-game griefers without having to worry about judging offensive logos on a haphazard, individual basis - I'll gladly let the main Devs judge those things uniformly before it ever happens.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I prefer to have a man in the

I prefer to have a man in the loop, honestly. I remember when Paragon Studios first implemented reporting accounts for gold farming right from the chat window where it was a completely automated system at first. How do I know that? I was griefed by @$$holes who reported my account and it was automatically limited to being unable to talk in global channels, etc, like a trial account. No validation, no contact with a GM, just BAM no chat for you! I had been playing for quite a few years at that point, at least long enough to earn some enmity between myself and a certain playerbase subsect. It was remedied after I sent an extremely scathing e-mail to support.
I'm sure technology has come a-ways that perhaps errors like that can be avoided, but I prefer to trust someone who's officially empowered to enforce the rules than some script running on a server somewhere.

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Cobalt Azurean wrote:
Cobalt Azurean wrote:

I prefer to have a man in the loop, honestly. I remember when Paragon Studios first implemented reporting accounts for gold farming right from the chat window where it was a completely automated system at first. How do I know that? I was griefed by @$$holes who reported my account and it was automatically limited to being unable to talk in global channels, etc, like a trial account. No validation, no contact with a GM, just BAM no chat for you! I had been playing for quite a few years at that point, at least long enough to earn some enmity between myself and a certain playerbase subsect. It was remedied after I sent an extremely scathing e-mail to support.
I'm sure technology has come a-ways that perhaps errors like that can be avoided, but I prefer to trust someone who's officially empowered to enforce the rules than some script running on a server somewhere.

I think we're talking about GMs policing people on-the-spot for "offensive content/actions". That's a different topic than whether the system allows players to grief other players with "automatic" account restrictions/punishment.

Obviously I'd be against any game that allowed players to use the reporting system to auto-punish people based on any pretense (i.e. gold farming and/or swastikas). As you say there should always be a "man in the loop" when it comes to doling out serious account punishments.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012