I played Controllers extensively in CoH and enjoyed the way they played very... very much. I was curious about what type of Crowd Control system you were going to implement? In CoH ALL CC skills relied on the magnitude system. Take Stone Control for example, Our tier one power was a Magnitude 3 single-target immobilize for 16.8 seconds (if I remember right). Our tier 2 skill was Fossilize which was a MAG 3 Hold for about half that time. I could go on and on about the rest of the tree but will stop there for simplicity! Minions had a mag resistance of 2 to IMMOB and HOLD meaning it would take only one application for either cc type to take effect. While lieutenants had a MAG resistance of 3, my IMMOB and HOLD would still only take one application to take effect. Bosses had a mag resistance of 4, Elite bosses were 5-6 depending on the zone. Giant Monsters (depending on the type and zone) where anywhere from 50-150 MAG resistance, another variable also included how many players were in the zone as they would scale up per player. Now, for bosses to immobilize them it would take 2 applications of a magnitude 3 hold to beat their mag-4 resistance and hold them for x-duration. The duration was determined by the CC duration on your powers themselves and was stackable but still kept separate timers for applications as so: Tier 1 Power Single-Target Immob(MAG-3)-16 sec duration- applied to boss -MAG-4 resist (NO CC EFFECT/applies the DoT) / By the time the power recharges our original application is down to 11 seconds , we attack again with our Tier 1 Power Single-Target Immob(MAG-3)-16 sec duration which is kept on its own separate timer but the MAG level stacks and looks like this on a boss debuff bar: MAG-3 Immobilization -11 seconds / MAG-3 Immobilization -16 seconds <---- This totals a mag level of 6, beating the resistance level of 4 and thus the target is immobilized. This system was extremely efficient and enjoyable as well, I noticed for you first controller set you have CC type called "Restrain" but in order to use it, I have to basically restrain myself by being rooted in order to channel it. I can't think of very many skills where we had to channel much of anything aside from the revive and the blasters sniping powers. I know the modern day CC system stacks numerically ie: Guild wars 2 / Aion / World of Warcraft.. the list goes on. But the way CoX handled CC, buff/debuff, burns, everything really.. was on an application of the power itself basis and that was what set it apart from every other game out there and still does to this day.
Fri, 05/15/2015 - 13:13
#1
CoX Crowd Control System: Will it be used here?
The precise details of the Crowd Control system are not yet known, There is a good chance that it is tied in with the (also yet unrevealed) momentum/reserves system.
The details of combat are all obviously subject to change in Alpha and Beta testing so I'd caution you away from looking for any concrete "numbers" and/or Magnitude. But you are NOT alone in wanting to hear the details. I too am waiting with bated breath.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I can't divulge details yet but can tell say that we won't have binary control systems whenever possible. The cityof's mag system was entirely binary and thus we won't be matching the numerical values thereof nor the exact operations either.
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Is it that binary is ineffecient? By exact operations are we talking about Holds / Sleeps / Stuns / Immobilization / Slows / Confusion / Placate ? Things like this?
No it's because binary is all or nothing. The target is either a helpless pinata or it's completely unaffected to use holds as an example. CoT is saying there will be a middle ground.
Yes - so for instance in the case of a "Hold" power - instead of either "Not Held" or "Held", there could be "Not Held", one or more levels of "Impaired" (like a slow), and then "Held".
*LE GASP*
I've got it! The crowd control system is going to essentially be a sliding scale of CC that ranges from completely unaffected to completely hapless, and certain powers have certain probability curves depending on how strong a CC power is such that when they hit, they each have their own mean CC output with their own standard deviation depending on how wide-ranged the effects of the CC are. More than likely, lesser effects will stack on top of greater effects where applicable, and have their effects magnified the higher the percentage the enemy is affected. I can almost imagine how it'd be set up...
|0% affected|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|100% affected|
+ = "And." Both effects develop simultaneously once a certain percent-affected is reached.
/ = "Or." One effect or the other develop once a certain percent-affected is reached.
Slow = Movement speed is reduced.
Attackslow = Attack speed is reduced.
Debuff = Stat is lowered.
Sleep = Opponent is held until attacked.
Hold = Opponent cannot do anything.
Recoil = Power animation is interrupted.
Disorient = Powers cannot be used, movement reduced/clumsy like in CoX.
Stagger = Opponent stumbles back, but is not knocked down.
Knockdown = Opponent is knocked down.
Knockout = Knockdown and Disorient combined.
Knockback/Knockup = Opponent is sent flying.
Home Run = Opponent is sent flying a great distance- see [i]Force Bolt[/i] for an example. Knockout is assumed.
KNOCKBACK SCALE:
|Recoil|---|Stagger|---|Knockdown|---|Knockback/Knockup|---|Home Run|
DISORIENT SCALE:
|Acc/Def Debuff|---|Recoil|---|Attackslow|---|Disorient|---|Stagger+Disorient|---|Knockout|
IMMOBILIZE SCALE:
|Slow|---|Def Debuff|---|Immobilize|
HOLD SCALE:
|Recoil|---|Slow+Attackslow|---|Immobilize/Disorient|---|Hold|
...I'll probably include some more examples for the more exotic CCs, if my assumptions aren't too blatantly wrong.
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They've already mentioned they've got a prototype system worked out for knockdown/knockback/etc.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
@AAlbusUUmbra Sounds like an interesting idea, but progressing through those scales would eliminate other skills in the progression. If I wanted to just slow an enemy group by using quicksand or an ice slick and the enemies are on the Location AoE for too long, they would eventually become immobilized. Or what about a power that just causes disorient like Stalagmites, how would these powers be able to jump over certain stepping stones but not reverse travel through them(OR maybe they would?) as the duration expired?
Presumably, not all effects would be manifested for certain powers. That, and the [i]effect curve[/i] of the powers may be so slim that it shuts out all the higher-level effects from ever happening.
For instance, with [i]Quicksand[/i] and [i]Ice Slick,[/i] the progression from a 0% Slow to a 100% Slow (AKA Immobilize) would likely follow a logarithmic growth as the enemy remains in the AoE, with the highest capacity for the status effect capped at, say, 50% Slow.
As for the [i]Stalagmites[/i] power? Well, with all the groupings I gave, it is assumed that they are all different levels of Disorient by their very nature. For instance, if someone hits you in the head, you'll naturally want to recoil, plus it'll screw up your coordination, thereby lowering Acc and Def. Get hit harder, and you'll have trouble bringing yourself to fight as you worry more about clearing your head, thus lowering attack speed. Get hit even harder, and you'll be too stunned to keep swinging. Essentially, all the powers listed are part of a sliding scale for the given effect. [b]Nonetheless,[/b] one may still jump over certain stepping stones (as you said) by coding the status effect to not appear once the % Affected threshold is reached. In the [i]Stalagmites[/i] power, the % Affected curve for it may range from Recoil to Disorient. The effect between those two points- Attackslow- may activate if the % Affected reaches, say, 40%. If you wanted to eliminate the in-betweens like Attackslow, then when the % Affected score is at 40%, you could simply remove the Attackslow debuff from the power's listed effects, therefore allowing the power to continue only making the enemy recoil until the % Affected finally scores whatever would be the % for Disorient. As for reverse-traveling, this could be solved in a similar manner (if need be) by simply going down to the next CC/debuff after whatever you were trying to skip having to reverse-travel through.
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I can give you a couple of...hints.
Debuffs are not implicit to a control effect. They are separate effects unless the control effect is designed to ilicit a particular behavior. Intended behaviors are an important factor (winks).
Knockdown and Knockback are separate effects, they are not designed with the magnitude scale like cityof.
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Excellent! I think i see where you are going with this... >:)