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Costume/Avatar Creator UI Elements

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Fireheart
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Costume/Avatar Creator UI Elements

It's been suggested that there will be Sliders. Quite possibly LOTS of sliders, controlling many aspects of the character's form, before we even look at 'costume' elements. Having recently worked with a character creator, to modify my character in another game, I thought I'd post here with... observations. Perhaps requests?

• Tabs. There should be tabs and… pages, and sub-tabs, to organize the layers and sections of the character’s form. So there would be a frame/tab that shows the whole body and a sub-tab that concentrates just on the head, and possibly a tab within that which deals with the eyes. These tabs should make it easy and intuitive to move between the various levels of detail.

• ‘Reset’ buttons. Within these layered tabs/frames, there should be a button to reset all sliders in that tab to ‘default’ and/or ‘current’ settings. Thus, if one has gone out of control with the sliders, one can return to default or to the current settings, if one is modifying an existing character, or Both, in case one wants to really start over.

• Color. It is Important that colors appear the same in-game, as they do in the creation-space. If the eyes seem to glow, then they should actually glow, and not look dull, when the character is finished. The effect of textures and shading should be consistent across the whole costume.
I have Pictures from CoH, demonstrating that the ‘tights’ texture was different between the ‘gloves’ and the rest, causing a visible color-shift.

• Numeric Metering. I mean that the sliders ought to have a numeric read-out regarding their position and one ought to be able to input numbers for precision slider positioning.

• Saving Sections. It would be useful to be able to save and/or freeze costume segments, such that, if one finds an attractive look, one could save it and upload it to another costume/character. One might, thus, be able to save and/or construct a character/costume in sections.

What other features should the Avatar and Costume Creation module have?

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Lothic
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

• Tabs. There should be tabs and… pages, and sub-tabs, to organize the layers and sections of the character’s form. So there would be a frame/tab that shows the whole body and a sub-tab that concentrates just on the head, and possibly a tab within that which deals with the eyes. These tabs should make it easy and intuitive to move between the various levels of detail.

Agreed. Any GUI that keeps the sliders organized would be helpful.

Fireheart wrote:

• ‘Reset’ buttons. Within these layered tabs/frames, there should be a button to reset all sliders in that tab to ‘default’ and/or ‘current’ settings. Thus, if one has gone out of control with the sliders, one can return to default or to the current settings, if one is modifying an existing character, or Both, in case one wants to really start over.

The idea of reset buttons would be good but I (by maybe just a tiny margin perhaps) would rather have "lock" buttons so that once I have certain parts of the character the way I want them I could lock them in place so those particular sliders couldn't be accidentally shifted. Overall I wouldn't mind having both reset buttons AND lock buttons but if we could only have one I'd rather the lock buttons. In effect they would basically serve the similar function of keeping things from "getting out of control" as you mentioned.

Fireheart wrote:

• Color. It is Important that colors appear the same in-game, as they do in the creation-space. If the eyes seem to glow, then they should actually glow, and not look dull, when the character is finished. The effect of textures and shading should be consistent across the whole costume.
I have Pictures from CoH, demonstrating that the ‘tights’ texture was different between the ‘gloves’ and the rest, causing a visible color-shift.

Yeah one of the more frustrating things from CoH was the fact that certain items that should have gone together like some of the tights pieces didn't actually match in terms of their fundamental color tone/hue. Sure you could make all those items "red" for instance but even if you choose the same "red" from the GUI you could often see major differences on screen with exactly which reds were used by the system for each item.

Another related problem I'll mention here is that some of the costume "sets" in CoH were incomplete. For instance CoH had a "shiny" version of tights but it only had that for the main full top and full bottom parts - there were no equivalent shiny versions for the gloves, bikini bottoms, or boots. This meant it was impossible to make a complete shiny "leotard" outfit because the shiny full top wouldn't match up with the non-shiny bikini bottoms.

Hopefully CoT will not only account for the matching color issue but also offer complete sets for any costume variations they provide.

Fireheart wrote:

• Numeric Metering. I mean that the sliders ought to have a numeric read-out regarding their position and one ought to be able to input numbers for precision slider positioning.

Yes this has been suggested many times for CoT.

Fireheart wrote:

• Saving Sections. It would be useful to be able to save and/or freeze costume segments, such that, if one finds an attractive look, one could save it and upload it to another costume/character. One might, thus, be able to save and/or construct a character/costume in sections.

As you probably recall CoH allowed us to save what they called "costume" files but those were full saves of everything related to a costume slot which included both costume items AND body slider settings.

We have been told that the Devs of CoT intend to make it so that you can save costume data separately from body slider data as two different kinds of save files. This means you can save a specific body layout separately from individual costumes which would be great for sharing things like supergroup outfits without having any body slider info locked into that and so on.

Fireheart wrote:

What other features should the Avatar and Costume Creation module have?

This is a kind of "pie-in-the-sky" request but it would be cool if the costume creator provided multiple lighting source settings so that you could see what your character looked like under different lighting conditions. It's amazing how often a certain outfit "looked OK" in the CoH creator but then looked weird once you got it out into the actual game. I recall CoH tried to give us generic lighter and darker settings but they didn't really help all the time. By being able to review our outfits against multiple lighting sources inside the creator it might save some of us from having to jump in and out of the creator trying to get things right.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Quote:
Quote:

This is a kind of "pie-in-the-sky" request but it would be cool if the costume creator provided multiple lighting source settings so that you could see what your character looked like under different lighting conditions. It's amazing how often a certain outfit "looked OK" in the CoH creator but then looked weird once you got it out into the actual game. I recall CoH tried to give us generic lighter and darker settings but they didn't really help all the time. By being able to review our outfits against multiple lighting sources inside the creator it might save some of us from having to jump in and out of the creator trying to get things right.

I so lost count the number of times I deleted a character to remake them because of this!

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The character creator should

The character creator should /start/ with the name, not drag you through the effort of creating a costume only to find two hours later that the name you planned to go with it is unavialable.

When a name is unavailable the character creator should suggest a number of similar alternatives that /are/ still available
(if it can).

And really, any name that ends in a bunch of numbers or is bracketed between X's or non-standard characters should be flagged for developer attention (and receive a warning of such). The game shouldn't look like a facebook contact page ...
Running into truckloads of names like xXxSupermanxXx or Spiderman_124793 (or even worse ASDKLFJASDKF) is kind of killing the immersion.

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Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

The character creator should /start/ with the name, not drag you through the effort of creating a costume only to find two hours later that the name you planned to go with it is unavialable.
When a name is unavailable the character creator should suggest a number of similar alternatives that /are/ still available
(if it can).
And really, any name that ends in a bunch of numbers or is bracketed between X's or non-standard characters should be flagged for developer attention (and receive a warning of such). The game shouldn't look like a facebook contact page ...
Running into truckloads of names like xXxSupermanxXx or Spiderman_124793 (or even worse ASDKLFJASDKF) is kind of killing the immersion.

Everything you just mentioned here will be either be completely eliminated or mostly mitigated by the global naming system that CoT will be using. There will be no such thing as "unavailable names" so it won't matter when the character creator allows you to enter a character name and because there will be no more "name locking" the motivation to use spaces, X's or numbers to try to make "unique" versions of a name will no longer be needed/justified.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

This is a kind of "pie-in-the-sky" request but it would be cool if the costume creator provided multiple lighting source settings so that you could see what your character looked like under different lighting conditions. It's amazing how often a certain outfit "looked OK" in the CoH creator but then looked weird once you got it out into the actual game. I recall CoH tried to give us generic lighter and darker settings but they didn't really help all the time. By being able to review our outfits against multiple lighting sources inside the creator it might save some of us from having to jump in and out of the creator trying to get things right.

I would like to expand on this to not only include different lighting conditions but different in-game locations with their day/night options, if outside.
Not only would you be able to see what it looks like "out in the world" but it would give us an unobstructed place to pose for screenshots.

Another thing I think would be cool is having a way to render an image at different graphics settings. Even if you had only a modest GPU you could get an idea what you look like to others running on ultimate.
I remember upgrading my graphics card a couple of years after starting CoX only to discover that what I thought looked pretty good was godawful at higher settings.

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Rigel wrote:
Rigel wrote:

I would like to expand on this to not only include different lighting conditions but different in-game locations with their day/night options, if outside.
Not only would you be able to see what it looks like "out in the world" but it would give us an unobstructed place to pose for screenshots.

Maybe they could link this into the Mission Architect with a handful of predefined empty mission areas that you can get to only through the Avatar Builder. Via a menu list in the Avatar Builder you could choose to be sent to your "posing location" in a default mission location (or cloned area of the main city zones) with no actual mission objectives. They could have "critters" to kill but you'd get nothing from them (Ino NF, XP or badge kill credit). That way you have a place to run around in all by yourself to see how you look. While you're in one of those little "pocket missions" you could also use all of your powers so this would allow people to test out powers which is something people wanted in CoH forever. Two birds, one stone.

Rigel wrote:

Another thing I think would be cool is having a way to render an image at different graphics settings. Even if you had only a modest GPU you could get an idea what you look like to others running on ultimate.
I remember upgrading my graphics card a couple of years after starting CoX only to discover that what I thought looked pretty good was godawful at higher settings.

This may sound circular but wouldn't you need the actual GPU hardware in question in order to see what your graphics would look like with that hardware installed? I mean I suppose it's possible to get the game to "simulate" (in software) what your screen might look like if you had the necessary GPU to process the highest graphics settings but if you could "trick" the software into doing that at all why wouldn't you just play the entire game in that mode?

I'm not technically against your idea here - I just don't know how you'd be able to do it under most ordinary circumstances. *shrugs*

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Wouldn't it be nice...

Wouldn't it be nice...
I think it would be nice if we could view or copy other players costume settings. In game one should be able to do something like right click the other player and save costume for later use. In the character creator one should be able to view saved costumes and also pull up a list of friends or maybe search by name to review other's costume settings.

I suspect there are some players that have little to no interest in the costume section of character creation. Perhaps a few defaults so those players can "click and go" would be good.

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Hero_Zero wrote:
Hero_Zero wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice...
I think it would be nice if we could view or copy other players costume settings. In game one should be able to do something like right click the other player and save costume for later use. In the character creator one should be able to view saved costumes and also pull up a list of friends or maybe search by name to review other's costume settings.

I could see getting a "right click to quick-save target's costume data" function. That would be pretty useful. On the other hand the problem with trying to provide some kind of "friend search" function embedded in the costume creator is that the "friend" in question might have dozens of costumes associated with a single character and/or a whole account full of characters. That could get real messy real quick. Also there's such a thing as "privacy" - maybe your friend wouldn't want to allow you to have direct access to or knowledge about every costume they have available.

Hero_Zero wrote:

I suspect there are some players that have little to no interest in the costume section of character creation. Perhaps a few defaults so those players can "click and go" would be good.

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say they'll have some "default" costumes for those who don't really want to think about it too much.

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I think I'd rather not have

I think I'd rather not have some stranger 'cloning' my costume. Let them take a screenshot and put a little Work into it and, even then, I'm uncomfortable at the idea of someone copying my carefully crafted look.

There's certain to be default tights and there might even be a 'random' button. Perhaps there will be a bunch of pre-made costumes, like CoH had?

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I think I'd rather not have some stranger 'cloning' my costume. Let them take a screenshot and put a little Work into it and, even then, I'm uncomfortable at the idea of someone copying my carefully crafted look.

To be honest I wouldn't be hyper-happy to see someone I didn't know show up standing next to me in a 100% cloned copy of one of my outfits. But here's two "data points" to consider:

  • In the full 8.5 years I played CoH I don't think I ever saw a "stranger" who had actually cloned one of my costumes 100% identically.
  • Even without a "right-click to quick-save" feature it's still not "that hard" to recreate a costume from a screen-capture if you really wanted it.

I suppose you could make the argument that more clones might start happening if the game made it "too easy" with a quick-save option. But I'd be willing to take that chance versus the benefit of being able to share/borrow costumes like that with friends. Also it's always possible the game could just add a switch for each costume that would let you choose if you wanted it to be savable by another player with the quick-save method. That would directly prevent anyone from quick-saving your outfits if it was amazingly important to you. *shrugs*

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I second the numbers!

I second the numbers!

I love that Adobe Illustrator has numbers and I almost hate using any drawing software that doesn't. That'll extend to any sufficiently powerful costume creator.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I suppose you could make the argument that more clones might start happening if the game made it "too easy" with a quick-save option.

Yes, the CoH costume generator was actually simple enough that an experienced costume maven could re-create a look from a screenshot. There was a whole thread dedicated to costuming on the forums. CoT's costume creator promises to be more complex, but it could be masterable.

I often connected with others, interested in my costumes, and shared costume files, sometimes dozens of such files flying back and forth. That's one reason why I'd like to be able to share swappable Sections, rather than full costume files, to see how a character would look with certain changes, without changing the whole thing.

I don't mind sharing costumes when Asked, but I object to someone being able to 'capture' my costume for free, without asking.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I don't mind sharing costumes when Asked, but I object to someone being able to 'capture' my costume for free, without asking.

Again I basically agree, but not quite enough to completely dismiss the "right-click to quick-save a costume" suggestion completely. ;)

How about this for a compromise: Instead of players having the ability to "quick-save" any random costume they see maybe have such a feature work in reverse so that the player with the costume in question has to target other players to GIVE them a save file with their own current costume data. This means you would specifically control who gets your costume data (i.e. people who ask nicely for it) because you're giving it to them instead of it being copied from you.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

How about this for a compromise: Instead of players having the ability to "quick-save" any random costume they see maybe have such a feature work in reverse so that the player with the costume in question has to target other players to GIVE them a save file with their own current costume data. This means you would specifically control who gets your costume data (i.e. people who ask nicely for it) because you're giving it to them instead of it being copied from you.

I love win-win thinking!

You gave me a thought.
Perhaps when you save a costume profile, that profile is saved as an inventory item. And you can drag that inventory item to an action bar to 'use' it like you would use a potion or how some games allow you to select mounts or pets. So swapping from one costume to the next on your character would be as simple as clicking on the action bar for the costume you want to wear.

One advantage of doing this is the ability to share your costume with someone else by merely opening your trade window and placing your costume item in the trade window. The developers would just have to make sure that you don't actually trade your costume away like giving away a potion. The only thing you would be trading is the costume data.

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Or the "right click - save

Or the "right click - save costume" could be "right click - request costume design" instead. If the "target" player has globally shared the costume or shared with friends and the request is from a friend the answer defaults to yes. Otherwise the "target" player has a choice which I would argue should not even be a real time pop up but handled more like in game email so it's not immediately disruptive to gameplay.

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And the mail that is sent

And the mail that is sent identifies the requester and the costume, and maybe when and where the request was made...

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Perhaps when you save a costume profile, that profile is saved as an inventory item. And you can drag that inventory item to an action bar to 'use' it like you would use a potion or how some games allow you to select mounts or pets. So swapping from one costume to the next on your character would be as simple as clicking on the action bar for the costume you want to wear.

One advantage of doing this is the ability to share your costume with someone else by merely opening your trade window and placing your costume item in the trade window. The developers would just have to make sure that you don't actually trade your costume away like giving away a potion. The only thing you would be trading is the costume data.

Hero_Zero wrote:

Or the "right click - save costume" could be "right click - request costume design" instead. If the "target" player has globally shared the costume or shared with friends and the request is from a friend the answer defaults to yes. Otherwise the "target" player has a choice which I would argue should not even be a real time pop up but handled more like in game email so it's not immediately disruptive to gameplay.

Sure having "costumes as inventory items" or having the game send an autoamted email-based costume request is certainly alternate ways to handle this. Mainly this whole thing, however it would be done, should be quick, simple and obviously follow the basic K.I.S.S. principle.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Rigel wrote:
Another thing I think would be cool is having a way to render an image at different graphics settings. Even if you had only a modest GPU you could get an idea what you look like to others running on ultimate.
I remember upgrading my graphics card a couple of years after starting CoX only to discover that what I thought looked pretty good was godawful at higher settings.
This may sound circular but wouldn't you need the actual GPU hardware in question in order to see what your graphics would look like with that hardware installed? I mean I suppose it's possible to get the game to "simulate" (in software) what your screen might look like if you had the necessary GPU to process the highest graphics settings but if you could "trick" the software into doing that at all why wouldn't you just play the entire game in that mode?
I'm not technically against your idea here - I just don't know how you'd be able to do it under most ordinary circumstances. *shrugs*

Granted, I probably have the least understanding of anyone here about how these things work, but I was just thinking that there might be a way to render a higher-quality image by not doing it in real time.
I have no idea what kind of effort it would take to do if it's even possible. It was just an idea I had based on the current conversation.

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Rigel wrote:
Rigel wrote:

Granted, I probably have the least understanding of anyone here about how these things work, but I was just thinking that there might be a way to render a higher-quality image by not doing it in real time.
I have no idea what kind of effort it would take to do if it's even possible. It was just an idea I had based on the current conversation.

Again it's not a bad "idea". I just don't know how practical it would be.

The whole advantage of having dedicated Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) hardware is to have it do all the "heavy lifting" as far as massive realtime graphics processing goes so that your computer's main CPU doesn't have to do all the work. Most CPUs on their own can't manage more than what would probably be called "Low/Standard" level settings in most modern games. Even lower-end GPUs usually can't manage the tip-top max settings for most games.

For what it's worth they could probably trick the software based graphics (via your basic CPU) to create simulated non-realtime "snapshots" of what your costumes might look like in higher graphics settings but definitely no examples that would be animated and/or runnable in real time. Again for that you'd pretty much need the hardware you were trying to simulate in the first place. The question is how useful people would find having static simulated pics of things their hardware can't otherwise generate for real would be. Regardless I imagine you'd eventually be able to watch YouTube videos of people running the game in high graphics modes if you'd really want to see what you're missing.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I think what these guys are

I think what these guys are looking for is something like nvidia's Ansel feature. Basically it saves all the active rendering data for a scene (a single frame) and then you can come back later and dig into the scene after it's been rendered at max settings. Max settings in Ansel is something like 30gigapixels IIRC, for reference 1080p is 2megapixels. You have the ability to move the camera and see a different angle or zoom in on a specific detail, like a fly, next to a horse, a quarter of a mile away.

I think this would be easy to do in the CC, less so in the main world. You'd hit the "capture" button and for a minute your GPU freaks out as it renders the avatar alone at max settings against a plain background. (ideally green screen so the player can pick whatever setting they want. Then the player can pan around the avatar and see it in all it's possible glory. It'd be a static statue. Bonus points if this capture could be saved and sent to other players. Further bonus points if the game would render a little video of the camera panning around the character with windage and breathing. It might take a particularly slow computer several minutes of hard work to create this short 30 second video but obviously some players would find it quite enjoyable.

Just thinking about it kinda makes me want this.

Hopefully I've hit the nail on the head for what these guys were after. Otherwise, you'll have to help us understand better.

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@Grimfox, while I was unaware

@Grimfox, while I was unaware of the exact technology; what you proposed is kind of what I had in mind as I read this threa. The theory being that to see what your character looks like in the highest graphics setting, it would have to take as long as it would have to take for your computer to render at the highest settings. You mention a 3D snapshot or a small movie, and that's what I was thinking too.
I think I like your idea of a green screen. But since lighting is part of the 3D rendering, I would assume that green screening the character would do so with a default uniform, shadowless render, not a light source. And when you pick any other background or lighting conditions, it would have to apply them then. Would this require having to render the whole character again, or would you merely be tasking your computer to apply light and shadow to the existing model?

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Trap Spider - the little spider rides a big robot
Thunderbird Priest - conduit of the Thunderbird spirit
Lovebot - programmed to love man, gives tough love to mankind
Schwarzchild - singularity-manipulating time traveller is lost

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Do keep in mind that many

Do keep in mind that many costume pieces will be unlockables through earning badges. So even if someone does save it, in many cases they will need to play in order to earn the badges to gain access to the pieces.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Do keep in mind that many costume pieces will be unlockables through earning badges. So even if someone does save it, in many cases they will need to play in order to earn the badges to gain access to the pieces.

Will these be account-wide or just per-character? Guess I could see arguments for either, other than for single event stuff (e.g., 5th anniversary or Halloween 2020)

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Do keep in mind that many costume pieces will be unlockables through earning badges. So even if someone does save it, in many cases they will need to play in order to earn the badges to gain access to the pieces.

I hope these costume pieces have a definite connection to the achievement. Like actual Scorpion Soldier uniform for villians that get the Scorpion loyalty badge, for instance. This is so that certain costume items are badges of accomplishment and are known to be such just by looking at them. One of the things I liked most about CoX which I really did not like at all about DCUO is that in CoX nearly every possible costume is available at character generation while in DCUO, there is a limited selection at character creation and all other costumes are drops or awards or cash shop items.

I don't want to CoT take the route that DCUO did and make costumes a cash grab or subject to random drops. This would be an instant killer for me. But if certain costumes or appearance options are only available to reward personal accomplishment, I will support that.

Potential Titans:
Trap Spider - the little spider rides a big robot
Thunderbird Priest - conduit of the Thunderbird spirit
Lovebot - programmed to love man, gives tough love to mankind
Schwarzchild - singularity-manipulating time traveller is lost

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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Do keep in mind that many costume pieces will be unlockables through earning badges. So even if someone does save it, in many cases they will need to play in order to earn the badges to gain access to the pieces.
Will these be account-wide or just per-character? Guess I could see arguments for either, other than for single event stuff (e.g., 5th anniversary or Halloween 2020)

From what MWM has said unlocking costume pieces through game play (badges, drops, quest rewards and so on) will be character unlocks while unlocking through cash shop will be account unlocks. Many game play unlocks will also be available in the cash shop.

Special events, like anniversary and season, will most likely be the "common exception" among game play unlocks.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Do keep in mind that many costume pieces will be unlockables through earning badges. So even if someone does save it, in many cases they will need to play in order to earn the badges to gain access to the pieces.
I hope these costume pieces have a definite connection to the achievement. Like actual Scorpion Soldier uniform for villians that get the Scorpion loyalty badge, for instance. This is so that certain costume items are badges of accomplishment and are known to be such just by looking at them. One of the things I liked most about CoX which I really did not like at all about DCUO is that in CoX nearly every possible costume is available at character generation while in DCUO, there is a limited selection at character creation and all other costumes are drops or awards or cash shop items.
I don't want to CoT take the route that DCUO did and make costumes a cash grab or subject to random drops. This would be an instant killer for me. But if certain costumes or appearance options are only available to reward personal accomplishment, I will support that.

No "random drops" for costume bits. That's part of DCUO which was a major turn-off for me as well. Or in lockboxes, or behind cash-store keys even if earned in game, etc.

I gave an example of the elevator shoes in a video we just did, as being part of an exploration badge associated with a former dance club which was big during the disco era. Our aim is for the associated badges to be thematically consistent with the piece. And yes, that means you'll be able to see the piece, and which badge you need, beforehand if you want. That way you can go out and purposefully get it.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

No "random drops" for costume bits. That's part of DCUO which was a major turn-off for me as well. Or in lockboxes, or behind cash-store keys even if earned in game, etc.
I gave an example of the elevator shoes in a video we just did, as being part of an exploration badge associated with a former dance club which was big during the disco era. Our aim is for the associated badges to be thematically consistent with the piece. And yes, that means you'll be able to see the piece, and which badge you need, beforehand if you want. That way you can go out and purposefully get it.

That is great to hear. Thank you for responding on a weekend. I see you are as enthused about the game as we are. I continue to be impressed with your involvement in the forums, MWM.

Potential Titans:
Trap Spider - the little spider rides a big robot
Thunderbird Priest - conduit of the Thunderbird spirit
Lovebot - programmed to love man, gives tough love to mankind
Schwarzchild - singularity-manipulating time traveller is lost

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

@Grimfox, while I was unaware of the exact technology; what you proposed is kind of what I had in mind as I read this threa. The theory being that to see what your character looks like in the highest graphics setting, it would have to take as long as it would have to take for your computer to render at the highest settings. You mention a 3D snapshot or a small movie, and that's what I was thinking too.
I think I like your idea of a green screen. But since lighting is part of the 3D rendering, I would assume that green screening the character would do so with a default uniform, shadowless render, not a light source. And when you pick any other background or lighting conditions, it would have to apply them then. Would this require having to render the whole character again, or would you merely be tasking your computer to apply light and shadow to the existing model?

That's always the trouble of green screening. My thought was fairly simple, you'd get the character against a "green screen" and then you could take a screen shot and replace the green screen with a photo or background of your choosing in a simple photo editor. To make it more your own. The green screen is just the most basic way to change a setting. You'd be stuck with a standard lighting (unless you wanted to shade it in the photo editor) Giving the player access to lighting controls and all that seems a bit above and beyond what the CC is made for. Though there has been some talk about adding in a couple different default settings.

If you really wanted to play with the lighting I think it would be better to save the character as a 3D model that you could then import into Poser or Maya or URE and then light and pose as needed. That might be something you could do with the character save files depending on the format.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

Huckleberry wrote:
@Grimfox, while I was unaware of the exact technology; what you proposed is kind of what I had in mind as I read this threa. The theory being that to see what your character looks like in the highest graphics setting, it would have to take as long as it would have to take for your computer to render at the highest settings. You mention a 3D snapshot or a small movie, and that's what I was thinking too.
I think I like your idea of a green screen. But since lighting is part of the 3D rendering, I would assume that green screening the character would do so with a default uniform, shadowless render, not a light source. And when you pick any other background or lighting conditions, it would have to apply them then. Would this require having to render the whole character again, or would you merely be tasking your computer to apply light and shadow to the existing model?
That's always the trouble of green screening. My thought was fairly simple, you'd get the character against a "green screen" and then you could take a screen shot and replace the green screen with a photo or background of your choosing in a simple photo editor. To make it more your own. The green screen is just the most basic way to change a setting. You'd be stuck with a standard lighting (unless you wanted to shade it in the photo editor) Giving the player access to lighting controls and all that seems a bit above and beyond what the CC is made for. Though there has been some talk about adding in a couple different default settings.
If you really wanted to play with the lighting I think it would be better to save the character as a 3D model that you could then import into Poser or Maya or URE and then light and pose as needed. That might be something you could do with the character save files depending on the format.

The problem of course is that rendering it in anything but the game engine means that you no longer have the game engine's shaders, and the results will still look different.

Part of why we have issues showing preliminary work is that people often times take it as "this is how it will look when finished" due to this factor. In this case, the problem is reversed.

The idea of a "Green Screen" is not a bad one. If we do add such a feature, the cinematographer in me would only do it if we also enable lighting positioning and adjustment. That's the key to making a Green Screen look right.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

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DCUO does the green screening

DCUO does the green screening the way Grimfox meant it. The lighting on the character doesn't change, just the background behind the character. But DCUO only does it in the character selection screen, not the character creation screen, so it's kind of wasted then if you want to use it as a preview feature.

Two games that do the 'green screening' with lighting are Blade & Soul and FFXIV. Each allows you to rotate and spin your character and watch emotes in different game environments and lighting conditions before you accept your character design.

Potential Titans:
Trap Spider - the little spider rides a big robot
Thunderbird Priest - conduit of the Thunderbird spirit
Lovebot - programmed to love man, gives tough love to mankind
Schwarzchild - singularity-manipulating time traveller is lost

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Do keep in mind that many costume pieces will be unlockables through earning badges. So even if someone does save it, in many cases they will need to play in order to earn the badges to gain access to the pieces.

I like this idea very much. Simple, straight-forward, challenging, thematic.

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