Hello,
I was looking at the posts (and responses) that were being a little critical of this idea overall. And as I am eyeballing some of the more expensive funding tiers (waiting on wife approval), I have to say I was giving it some thought as well. I *REALLY* want to see this project succeed, so I would not try to nay-say it. But I do want to understand, because I don't have experience attempting to create something like this.
So far, some of the criticisms / risk I have seen or can think of myself are:
* This program currently lacks professionalism giving some people an uneasy feeling putting money into it
* $320K is no where near enough to build an AAA MMO, you will more likely need XX million to do it
* With the all volunteers situation it may not be possible to finish game by the stated target date
* I HAVE worked with volunteers on things like conventions, there are some risks and you know some of them
* You have stated that most / all of you are former players, does that mean you can make a game?
* COX is what it was with a full-time dev team for 9 years + pre-release development, and company investment
* You have some good talent now, but are there important "holes" in talent you have yet to fill?
* Projects like Star Citizen have people like Chris Roberts, who do you have and who to they know?
* Possibility of one or more other groups who will do a similar project, so maybe a fragmentation risk?
Some of the things going for you are:
* Apparently a respectable amount of work has already been completed by the all-volunteer team
* Embracing volunteers can be powerful both in getting it done and in the quality of the result + ongoing
* Having fancy tools will indeed accelerate production and quality
* You are purchasing a pre-made game engine rather than trying to build one from scratch
* You do your best to outline many risk factors on the Kickstarter, you have a healthy attitude about it so far
I could probably think of more in both categories, but I think you get the point.
Of all of these issues, the one that worries me the most is how the game gets made between the end of the Kickstarter and the release date. I am thinking to myself that there must be something I am not seeing, because the only way I can see it getting done is to have some number of full-time paid people involved in that stage.
But, maybe you guys have a plan that will shore that up, so that is what I am curious about.
Thinking out loud, if it were me doing it, I might be thinking like this:
Funding sources:
* Volunteers and personal investment from originators (how you got to where you are now)
* Kickstarter for purchasing tools, as you have stated (with possibility for stretch goals, etc.)
* Add a stretch goal for hiring one or more people full-time for X period of time
* Continue to collect money on your own after the Kickstarter (like Star Citizen has been doing)
* Private investment after the Kickstarter - assuming it is done in a way that doesn't compromise ideals
* Sale / pre-orders of the game when released (online instead of retail to save money)
* Monthly subscriptions
* Micro payments in game
* Advertisements in game
Am I in the right ball park at all? Understanding may help me feel more confident about donating, and being with you no matter what.
Thanks
-Bodai
As an aside, I am going to see about volunteering myself if I think I have skills that could be applicable somewhere where you need it. I have a full time job and two kids, but I think, I want to try and spare some time.
"This program currently lacks professionalism giving some people an uneasy feeling putting money into it"
I don't know what they consider professional, because I do not see one thing on the Kickstarter that is anything but.
-----------------------------------------
I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Right, that one is not mine, that was one that I saw. I think it is highly subjective
The only possible issue on the Kickstarter page I see is that maybe some of the text tends to ramble on a bit, maybe could be shorter / more concise? I am a big fan of bulleted lists as you can see. I have to do many project plans for management at my job, and I get like 1-2 pages at most or I lose them.
-Bodai
Agreeing that it's highly subjective, and not attributing the comment to anyone in particular, I too have to say it's one of the most professional pitches I've ever seen. And I think its length is its strength. Many KS pitches present a bunch of flashy images and not much on the nuts and bolts. Here, they went into details of their vision for the game itself, the direction and ownership, and even specifically what they plan to spend the money on. The only questions they left unanswered for me were some specific design decisions, and they are starting to address those very issues in their updates.
I've been in the same boat where I have had to present to corporate management who seem to have the attention span of a gnat. Only being slightly facetious here: if the length and detail of the pitch puts off people with that corporate mentality, maybe our game will be safer than the previous one.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Speaking as someone who writes a lot for work, I got mildly chewed out yesterday for writing a project plan that was too long and verbose... annnnnd in the same meeting, I got snarked at for writing a print insert that was too succinct and business-like.
And the criticism was right. Because they're not the same thing. The style you use needs to vary, depending on what it is that you're doing. The Kickstarter that the Missing Worlds team put up wasn't meant to be a to-the-point bullet summary. That wasn't the intent. It wasn't the style they wanted to strike.
They were going for a conversational and friendly kind of style. They were delivering a message that was meant to have a lot of personality and emotion. Now, look at the comments page - and you'll see the same kind of tone coming from people who backed. So clearly, that was the correct approach.
Professional is good. But in some cases, it doesn't pay to be too "professional".
Fair enough. I am thinking from the perspective that the audience is well, gamers.... some of whom don't want to get into the "story" or frequently use the term "TLDR" in their forum comments or even chat. I include myself in that demographic to an extent.
-Bodai
This KS project is still being "marketed" as part of a one-month campaign. That's frustrating to people like me who are already interested, because information about their plans is coming out slowly, timed to fill the entire month with "news". I want all the details NOW!
But as I get get older, I am slowly learning patience, and will try to remain calm while waiting for the next update. That due in about five minutes, right? ;)
This program currently lacks professionalism giving some people an uneasy feeling putting money into it
* $320K is no where near enough to build an AAA MMO, you will more likely need XX million to do it
* With the all volunteers situation it may not be possible to finish game by the stated target date
* I HAVE worked with volunteers on things like conventions, there are some risks and you know some of them
* You have stated that most / all of you are former players, does that mean you can make a game?
* COX is what it was with a full-time dev team for 9 years + pre-release development, and company investment
* You have some good talent now, but are there important "holes" in talent you have yet to fill?
* Projects like Star Citizen have people like Chris Roberts, who do you have and who to they know?
* Possibility of one or more other groups who will do a similar project, so maybe a fragmentation risk?
Apparently a respectable amount of work has already been completed by the all-volunteer team
* Embracing volunteers can be powerful both in getting it done and in the quality of the result + ongoing
* Having fancy tools will indeed accelerate production and quality
* You are purchasing a pre-made game engine rather than trying to build one from scratch
* You do your best to outline many risk factors on the Kickstarter, you have a healthy attitude about it so far
Well of course there will will criticism. It's part of making a game better. If there was nothing to be improved, then it might as well simply be a COX remake.
"Use the weakness as strengths"
1.Yes, 320K is probably not enough to fund an MMO. And it may be, last I checked, it was stated in the KS page. But really, even among COX community, a person barely can write 200 words without someone saying TLDR. So if the community get flustered at reading things, especially things that are not 100% praise, then it's not surprising that many missed the statement. Maybe simply reiterate that it's not funding the entire game but going for the equipment, software and such in order to create the game more efficiently instead of belittling them for missing it. Although i caught it, I can see how it can be easily missed.
2. point two- is valid. Many kickstarter vets seen games even after they get funded go nowhere. Even sometimes companies with full time staff end up canceling. And I think it's been stated that the game been worked on for one year, and even major game companies take 3-5 years to create a game. See remember when it was also later said that volunteers come and go and life changes happen? If it takes 3-5 years for professional full funded and staffed company to make a game in 3-5 years, the estimation is on the low side of the time it takes a professional team to do. To some, that is worrisome. Maybe the volunteers are sticking around through and through and spend every minute they are not working, working on the game. Or maybe they work on it when they can here and there. The creators or some part of the project rather stated that the volunteers have full time jobs, some have families, and other things that prevent them from working a full shift. But the estimated time is the quicker side of the amount of work that 8-12 or more fully staffed company gets done. If CoT was to be looking like a simple run of the mill reskin, ok, 3 years is plenty, but from the looks of it, it';s going to be an intensive blood sweat tears, hard work, quality product. So 3 years can be short looking when comparing the stuff they plan to the time they estimate. Even if it wasa fully funded company, it probably would be questioned. but with volunteers, and with the usual delays that can and do happen, that time table seems a bit more stringent than even the hardest slave drivers of thje corporate world. While it's an estimation and hopefully most if not all understand that, miss that deadline by much and some people may not be happy. Which can affect point one, if they ever need funding again.
3.Of course there are risks with volunteers. Some may get pissed and simply walk away. It can happen. A valid concern but nothing new.
4. I changed my own oil, tooks heads off a Ford motor, retimed BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes, and LT1 engines do that make me expert mechanic? No. Does that mean I can repair vehicles? No. This one, focus on what you can do and show them. Could the game go belly up? Of course. But the thing is I think there have been too much emphasis put out by the creators on this being a project made by ex-cox players. Just about every media article about this project always mention it's a project made by ex-coxers, ran by ex-coxers, being built by ex-coxers andn ot enough on what the skill sets actually are. It's nice to know that it's a game being built by ex-coxers but mostly outside the cox community, it's no useful than saying ex-*insert game name* player.
Something is wrong with your car two people charging the same price. One guy been working on your type of car for the past 30 years. the other guy never even worked on a car before. Which one would most people go to?
6.That one is a little vague to me and there could be many holes in anything any comany. No company is perfect. With that said, that doesnt mean one should stop or not strive to be better as if they were perfect. From when TPP started, I have seen some improvements. Communication has improved a lot and the skill to handle critism have improved like mad overall, still need work as there still seem to be a lingering view of any critism is not valid feel while at the same time marketing as a game build by and for the community. Seem as if in reality the only feedback that is wanted is feedback that agrees that COX was a good game and nothing should be improved beyond what the creators and their people think should be improved.
7. Everyone must start somewhere. While on the surface it can look like a negative jab, in reality, really think about it. People in game world and in real life look at experience. Some jobs wont even hire you if you have no experience even if you know what you are doing. Then if no one hires you how can you gain experience? Luckily with games, in this case, you can build a game and show them what you can do. Even professionals with decades of experience bungle games here and there and some looking at their early works, were a hot mess that they want to forget about. It's a learning process. But until there is more experience under the belt, this is expected. It's not an invalid complaint or concern but a natural one.
.As I said from the get go, outside of COHtitan, not everyone know who you are. It kind of ties in with experience. I think the section where it outlines who is who is great for starters. But eventually go deeper in the actual role of what people did in their past projects. Like "Chris’ connections all over the world have helped fill out the studio"-what kind of connections? Do he simply know people that know people? Hell, I have connections all over the world too. If one was to go deep enough I probably could be tied to the ruler of China. And he been involded with a lot of things but what was his involvement? Was he an intern, CEO, head guy, consultant, artist, janitor, computer repair, or what? Dont be afraid to flaunt the credentials that the people have. Unless you all are well know czars of the gaming industries that question will come up and people want to know or see that you know what you are doing and not a random group that will welch on them.
8.Yes others may do similar projects. With this one, a person can say what makes them unique besides of course the usual, ex-coxers making a game replacement, and the usual political style quips. Basically what will make you product stand out above the rest that no one can touch. Or how is this project different from the other offerings that came before it, including COX.
Short- all those are valid concerns and should be treated as such. Remember not everyone knows you all outside cohtitan. Think about the type of criticisms games got in COX days. Grinds, fairy elves, fantasy, and the usual stuff all based on stuff from the 80s. Now lets say NCSOFT Cryptic decided those type of comments should be ignored because they are game makers and the players are just players that know nothing and made simply another fantasy game? I dont think this project would exist, many of the people we met through out the years we wouldnt know, but they heard, and they made a product that was different from the usual. And even when it's gone it's still alive. And even have not one but three game being made due to it with one near completion of KS goal within three days. Lets not take the mindset back a few decadess and pay attention to the criticism instead of immediately dismissing them. Us it to the advantage because it was because of critism that we even had a hero game to play for 8 years to begin with and it was critism that made that good game even greater over the years. Only thing it was missing was marketing.
Now look here, people are waiting for a COX like game, people that never even heard of COX put their money on the line for this game to be made. Thing about all the changes that would have never even existed in COX over the years if people kept their mouth shut and always simply said, "COX is good." And we all know there are risks involved with funding a kickstarter so there shouldnt be anything wrong if someone is uneasy or voice their concerns about the risk. Many people been burnt and as you see they havent given up but doesnt mean they want to be burnt again anymore than people here want to be burnt by having a game pulled on them. Yeah the creators are inexperienced, kickstarter is a risk, but one thing I think is under estimated is not about answering the compliments and good stuff the creators want ot hear, but how thye answer the tough stuff. How much intestinal fortitude do they have? Do they get flustered easy and simply wave them off everytime someone say something they dont want to hear? There is plenty of that in most MMOs and they have years of experience in game making to back it up. Use the weakness as strength. Even if other people are doign it or there is thought other kickstarters are less professional and stuff. Try to avoid lines like "Well others are doing this and that." or "Others look less professional." Kind of remind me in grade school when someone get caught and the kids says someone else did it too. In the adult world, it looks like a type of answer a person that wont take responsibility for their mistakes and or think they can make no mistakes will say. Nothing is ever their own fault. Not a good look for a company especially without experience. Instead sometimes it's better to simply ask for what they find specifically they dont like about it so it can be improved?"
Usually if it's indeed valid, they wil go into more detail. If not or they dont know thye may say vague answer like "everything". Then how can improvement be made if it is not known what needs improvement? See instead of shifting blame because others do it or one think others are below, the latter response looks like you are listening and taking into consideration of what they say without coming off as judgemental that their complaint or view is totally invalid. There may be no need to improve but the difference between feeling they are heard and feelign they are dismissed because they dont think it's all perfect is vast. Remember the game may not need their money now, but as stated 320,000 is not creating the game entirely and thus the need for their money may be later. It;s too early to be burning bridges.
Thank you for the many comments. I just wanted to cover a couple of items from the list.
As you may imagine, there is much happening in the background on this project, and I'm sure its frustrating for people to not be able to see more. Rest assured that we are sensitive to your desires and concerns. I can tell you from personal experience that developing any product takes skill, energy, and vision. It also requires the person/team/company to be open to feedback.
I have found that even feedback presented in the most negative view has a potential to offer information of merit, and can be just as critical to the success of the product as any other. I would only ask that it be clear and constructive: so that we can learn the most from it. While its not my place, I'm sure the visionaries of City of Titans want to hear what you have to say.
The last thing item relates to ability. There are many people working on this project that have professional skills in the fields of coding, writing, and product development, including games. Again, from personal experience, do not underestimate all of the skills that people bring to a project that typically go hidden. All of us (in and out of the project) have skills that we didn't acquire in school. As a manager, I never ignored those skills.
Yes, many of us are involved because we also want a new home for our heroic (or villainous) characters. I consider that a great strength for the development team and the project. We are focused and committed.
Thanks again for all your support, and keep the feedback coming.
Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Thanks for the reply.
They indirectly state this be telling us what they were spending the $320K on, I don't think that is in dispute.
My question is what they do after that. I put the list in there first to provide context.
Yes, and if there is no full time staff, and as such it take 6-10 years, I think the opportunity may have passed at that point. That is why I am hoping that is not the way it goes.
I did read that, and I appreciate that. This is why I think their attitude is good as I stated in my list. As you said, yours is the TLDR version ;-)
Agreed. But if I or others are going to put money into it, I don't see a problem asking the question or stating the risk. I put myself in the position of a banker, and someone is in front of my desk pitching this idea, and what kinds of questions I would ask them to decide if I am going to loan them the money.
A related fear of mine is that the project succeeds, but it falls far short of the stated goals to not just meet COX but greatly exceed it.
Well, let us use a very relevant example. Take Star Citizen as I mentioned. On multiple levels that clearly has exemplary evidence that the game will not only be a success, but likely be as amazing or more so as Chris Roberts says it will be. This is of course reflected in the level of funding it is receiving as well.
This one is deliberately vague because I myself am not a game designer or project manager, so I can't know what the holes might be, I have to guess. On the other hand, I *DO* have extensive experience working on or with technical projects with multi-million dollar budgets. I can't tell you how many times I have seen project plans that were the size of a book, had a budget of 20-30 million dollars, and huge things were missing, obvious things. Say they would leave out anything on security, or there would be no Systems Architect on the project at all. And these were not drafts, they were "finished" proposals that got submitted and many times approved.
I don't know the people on this project. They do go into a little bit of detail on introductions, background, skill sets, and so on. I guess maybe I am thinking this falls short.
If they said something like: The original COX had 30 full time people, and the position list included ABC and XYZ positions - and of our people, here is who will be fulfilling those roles. Or even, of the 30 positions we have covered 22 of them, so we are still looking how to fill the other 8 positions adequately. And then, do they have the hiring manager skill to screen and find those people? Because just because someone volunteers doesn't mean they should be accepted.
-Bodai
Thanks for the reply. I agree with your points. As you say, it is very hard from my / our / the outside perspective to judge if the skills of this team have what it takes to pull off a project of this magnitude. When I am faced with that situation at work, if I am the person doing the project I state honestly if I really think I can do it and what the likelihood is, and my word is my bond. If I am the one asking, I am seeing how much of a poker face the person has to see if they really believe they can do it.
And, to be fair, I am very often finding myself taking on lofty high-risk projects, in many cases it is simply because I am extremely passionate about seeing it done and I am the one burning the midnight oil to make it happen. I sometimes question my own sanity about this. But, my track record has been good---even for my failures, which is why I continue to receive backing from management. They make me fight to the nail for every approval---and this point is often missed by others outside the project who wonder how I sell such preposterous projects to management. They don't necessarily see the blood and sweat I go through to actually pull it off, or the years of experience it took for me to reach the point where I could do that.
In your judgement, would you say that my post was clear and constructive as you state? That is indeed what I was trying for.
-Bodai
yeah they dont go into much detail about what happens or the plans for after kickstarter.
ANd I agree with everything you said there. Damn right you should ask questions before putting money into something. That is not being critical or negative, that is being smart. And for them to meet or exceed that goal of being level to COX or exceeding COX, then their plan have to be solid and not only solid it's probably best to let people that believe, want to, or have donated money in on this plan. Nothing is worse than investing in something, getting hyped about the words, then wishing later that ya should of asked more questions prior when the product comes out nothing like it was stated. Especially if money was involved.
And that very last paragraph is very vital. While the initial "feel good" may carry them through a kickstarter, that last paragraph will come into vital play when it's time to get it done and or run a game. And yes, definitely, volunteer is not or rather should not be an automatic pass. I can volunteer to be CEO of Microsoft they don't even have to pay me but more than likely they rather pay someone a few million and stock options for better security in someone that know what they are doing and have a record of showing it.
You are on point with your reply.
Thanks, I am glad we are in agreement.
The good news is, it is at an early enough stage that these things certainly can be addressed. So I am hoping my comments serve to move toward that goal. Maybe as Terlin here *almost* says, they might have this covered already but for some reason are not ready to reveal it or are too busy to lay it out.
I myself have not donated yet, but I have my finger on the button...
-Bodai
yup, this is the time.
I'm a tech-head by trade, and your initial post is in keeping with that style. All of those items are valid questions. I intended no quarrel with it, and just wanted to let you know that we do pay attention to your comments and questions.
I have never been able to develop a product in a vacuum, and I wouldn't recommend it. It is vital, in my opinion, to stay connected to customers and their desires and needs. You combine that with your knowledge and skill, among other things, to form the vision for creating the product.
I have been helping out with the project for a year now, and my respect for the people involved and what they are capable of just keeps growing. I trust our president, Sara 'Firefairy' Quinn, and her support staff. I know they will apply the skills we have to best effect, acquire skills and tools if/as needed, and continue to guide us to ultimate success.
So, its fine to ask the hard questions (or any you feel need asking). Its been particularly busy of late, as you can imagine. It may take a bit, but I'm sure we will answer your questions as best we can.
Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
Thanks Terlin,
So, perhaps you or other members of the staff will be chiming in later on these types of questions as time allows and as some of the popular questions rise to the surface here?
-Bodai
Of course. I'm sure that many of those questions will be covered by the FAQ being worked on right now.
Also, I'm not always in the know on every small detail, particularly if its outside my focus. Don't get me wrong as I do chime in with ideas on a wide range of topics, but its better if you get the latest and most accurate info. So, I'm leaving much of that for others to answer.
I mainly wanted to give you my take on the team and what they are capable of.
Now, back to more writing. :)
Terlin
[color=#ff0000]The Bullpen[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
This exchange and the willingness to listen to tough questions is part of the reason I have faith in this project. HOW you have handled this roll-out, in my opinion, is part of why I have faith in the project and contributed everything I could.
We all look forward to more information when you are able to share, and in the meantime, i'll contribute everything I can to the project's success.
[color=#ff0000]Environmental Artist, PR Editor[/color]
Not really sure where to post this comment really, but I am curious about the legalities of a spiritual successor to COH. Are there not some concerns about intellectual property rights held by NCSoft? I have certainly thrown some cash into your kick starter, but am curious if anyone has looked at these issues.
There would be no legal issues so far as I can tell. This game isn't based in Paragon city or using any of it's characters. While it may contain an homage to CoH, it is still a completely different game, with its own story and characters.
Indeed, Although we are and always will be a love letter to the old City, you will see a shift in our imagery and branding to fly high as our own beast more and more in the future. This is not only to protect IP and trademark, but also because we intend to be even better in many way, due to new tech and lessons learned.
______________
IANAL, IMHO, WYSIWYG, YMMV, IIRC, AFAIK, ETC
[color=#ff0000]Composition Assistant Director, Composition Team[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
The Wright Brothers built bicycles and watched birds. They built the first power-flight machine in history. The Titanic was built by herds of engineers and it sank.
Life happens, however I would rather throw in my lot with the few committed volunteers than a whole slew of 'professionals' paid to do the job. The former means they love what they're doing, the latter means they punch the clock for a paycheck.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
First successful controlled powered and sustained flight. Many engineers built powered flight machiness, none sustained flight though and many lost their lives doing it.
Of course your point is still valid but even stronger that even with teams flight engineers from aroudn the world, some of the best, couldnt figure out how to sustain flight then here comes a couple of bird watchers/bike builders and they do what was thought was nearly impossible.
I look at it this way:
I am currently backing a dream. It makes me happy to think about the game coming together.
Even if it goes down in flames, is $50 really that much to pay to smile for awhile?
Supporting how I can, Starting up a DA group for art, stories, and concepts to be collected
http://city-of-titans.deviantart.com/
Please join up if you plan to make or collect CoT related art.
+1 that.
Although for some, if it goes up in flames, some in hindsight may start thinking of the other sure things they could have done with the cash. Especially if times are tight by that point.
* You have stated that most / all of you are former players, does that mean you can make a game?
I think we have a really good foundation, since most of us are gamers of both video games and tabletop games. Since working on this project, I've found myself looking more critically at other games while I play them, as well as watching lots of videos about games that failed and discussions about why. Things like that, plus input from the community are one of the guiding forces behind this game. We're making a game that we ourselves want to play. So we study the tools. We work on problems together and learn from the experience. Every one of us is willing to learn new things on our way towards the goal of bringing this game to life.
Ayooooah!
And it's not as if many of the aspects of the actual [b]internals[/b] of game design haven't already been done over and over again -- and, in many cases, published in books on game design, so that they're [i]available[/i] to the development team. We're not expecting the team to have the same level of design experience that Paragon Studios had -- or even Cryptic back when they originally produced CoH. What we [i]do[/i] expect is that the development team will have the same dedication to making the game something that [b]they[/b] want to play as Paragon Studios had, and we'll see development that is good for the game, not driven by some corporate bottom line.
Yeah, that one was sort of my take on how I would think if I tried to do this, or a similar project. Driving a car doesn't make you a mechanic, much less a designer. I guess the key here is how many of your group are in fact some kind of designer related to the game creation process. That being said, I want to see if there is something on this project I could volunteer to help with, my major issue is time constraints.
-Bodai
True driving a car doesn't make one a mechanic. But if a person cares about their car enough they might be inclined to pick up the repair manual and save themselves a lot of money doing minor work themselves. So when someone has a dream of designing a game, they're going to pick up the manual for a game engine.
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/WebHome.html
Many of us, on both the art and technical teams have pored over this public document many times. We've experimented and played around with it and you can see some of the results in our KS video. Sure, it's a little rough around the edges, but doesn't most art start that way?
There are plenty of things that need to be done for this project. The real question is what aspect of game do you think you would enjoy doing in your spare time?
Ayooooah!
One thing that worries me is that NCSOFT still owns Paragon and CoH and could resurrect it anytime they choose, which could certainly scupper COT depending on how the fan community took it.
[h3]-- Mewkychan =^.^=m mew![/h3]
I think NCSoft would be crazy to do such a thing.
Firstly and most importantly, NCSoft no longer have a dev team - that means IF it did come back, it could only happen in maintenance mode at best - also, the game engine is so antiquated that it should be placed in a museum. And with the dev team now in other jobs, I'd be surprised if any of them would quit their new jobs just to run back to the fold - they were unceremoniously dumped once - would you return to such a company?
Secondly, the game would only appeal to previous players, of which a large majority take the opinion they wouldn't give NCSoft a red cent in future. It won't attract new players - who wants to play a game in maintenance mode?
Even if NCSoft gave the IP to MWM or another company, it would only divert resources away from current projects.
The only way NCSoft could scupper COT would be over an IP issue which is a very real possibility with the number of people finding it necessary to taunt NCSoft on their various Facebook pages. I'm sure they have someone watching over COT's progress with a fine toothed comb looking for any possible IP issues. I believe MWM have this on the radar and are taking the matter very seriously through their legal advisers.
Nope...never happen. The manner in which they shut down CoH left so much bad blood in the water that many CoH players have even left other NCSoft games they enjoyed. There was idle talk of storming the local offices, all kinds of petitions and hate mail. They would be nuts to try and bring it back. The majority of the players would actually work against the resurrection based on how hurt people were.
And THAT is why you don't burn your bridges if you don't have to. People remember...
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
Exactly.
That goes for NCSOFT, MWM, Fred the tech support dude, and Arsonist Bob.
Yeah, if they brought the game back, they'll be lucky to find a team that can untangle that code mess, and then they would have to go in with the expectations that the game will bring in even less than before.
If they do anything with the IP it probably wont be COX as we knew it whole. Either a spin off game or Walking around in a fantasy game and one of the contacts is named Marcus Cole who was an Incarnate from Rhode Island that once fought for justice and now sells swords to players and send people off to a dungeon mission to fight a monster spider dude named Lord Recluse.
I have not been able to figure why people who harbor so many doubts about the project would contribute money to it. I just don't understand the mindset. Can someone explain to me why a person would come up with a list of reasons a project would fail, and then give money to it?
I can do that.
Possibilities.
1) They gave token amount but want to give more. Remember many people view giving as not an investment but donation enough to an amount they are not afraid of losing at the time.
2) If they didn't give and brought up their concerns, then people will ask, "Well how can you even criticize or give advice if you didn't put in?" Thus they put in and hope someone is listening to their concerns.
3) They want the game to succeed, but still are not blind to the risks that may cause it to fail. Some voice it so that if something do hit the fan no one can say it wasn't said.
4) They invested and trying to give suggestions to better and lessen the risks. Remember some are better with online words than others. And sometimes not all doubt means they think it will fail. To be honest, MWM gave a good amount of information but it isn't a total blueprint of every little detail. So naturally there will be doubt there will be questions.
5) Invester's mentality. Many investors invest in companies then follow up with suggestions to improve or ask questions and concerns that they view may put their money at risk. There is hardly a serious investor that invest in something and never ask questions and assume everything is perfect. Many watch and ask about business like a hawk.
6) They are enthused, but naturally have doubts. Not many people can say there isn't a single risk with putting in. Thus if there is risk, then there will be doubt. And some will ask about it.
7) Hoping their questions will be answered in the updates.
8) Want to support the game and is as passionate about it success and will ask questions about nay doubt they have.
9) Want to invest, like the idea but simply want to be heard for once.
Even with the doubt I'm glad they chose to invest. Every dollar helps. If their money is not needed, or wanted and only people without doubt should be allowed to donate, then maybe the next update should state, "if you have doubt, concerns, questions, or ideas of the way the game may fail, do not donate". Then that should solve the people with doubt problems and leave those that have no doubt and no questions.
Plus, at least on the Kickstarter page, if you haven't backed a project then you cannot comment on the project.
Those are good points jag (and Mendicant, although yours leads back to my initial question in a sense). I didn't think about this answer, and I think it is the right one:
4) They invested and trying to give suggestions to better and lessen the risks. Remember some are better with online words than others. And sometimes not all doubt means they think it will fail. To be honest, MWM gave a good amount of information but it isn't a total blueprint of every little detail. So naturally there will be doubt there will be questions.
It is likely that their posts come out seeming a lot more dour than they really are. I'll take that one, as it lets me think the best of people. :)
Thanks!
Bodai you started a good conversation concerning risk (defined as threats and opportunities). If the MWM team can access risk in the various process groups of this project. (Initiating, Planning, Execution, Monitoring and Controlling, Closing--from the PMBOK), they can plan risk response strategies and apply appropriate contingency resources to implement those strategies. Although all sub processes may not be needed, I expanded the process groups below for situational awareness.
Initiating
Develop the project charter
Identify stakeholders (Gather the community)
Stakeholders buy-in
Planning
Develop Project Management Plan
Plan Scope Management
Plan Schedule Management (Define activities; Sequence Activities; Estimate Activity Resources; Estimate Activity Durations; Develop schedule)
Plan Cost Management
Estimate cost; Determine budget (Kickstarter, additional project funding)
Plan Quality Management
Plan Human resource management
Plan Communications management
Plan Risk Management (Identify Risks; Perform Qualitative Risk Analysis; Perform Quantitative Risk Analysis; Plan Risk Responses)
Plan Procurement Management
Plan Stakeholder Management
Execution
Direct and manage project work
Perform quality assurance
Acquire Project team
Develop Project team
Manage Project team
Manage communications
Conduct procurements
Manage Stakeholder engagement
Monitoring and Controlling
Monitor and control project work
Perform Integrated Change Control
Validate Scope
Control Scope
Control Schedule
Control Cost
Control Quality
Control Communications
Control Risks
Control Procurements
Control Stakeholder Engagement
Closing
Close Project or Phase
Close Procurements
In regards to the "all-volunteer team" concerns: I would like to take this opportunity to point out that this isn't the first MMORPG built from scratch by a volunteer team. In perhaps one of the more famous examples, Planeshift has been built up from humble origins for nearly a decade with far fewer and less versatile technical and human resources. It's not a gem when measured against any modern AAA titles due to the era of the technology it's built from, but last I checked up on it the game was solid and community strong. The technology itself is still better than AAA titles that were launched in its generation such as Shadowbane and Lineage 2, which is saying something. Granted, it is no where as expansive but the environments are rarely barren unlike the earlier examples.
www.planeshift.it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaneShift_(video_game)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGVYk3DoP0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC9V9yxTdRw
Not bad for a volunteer staff on a 13-year-old game engine (with no budget, I may add.) :D
Good thread with good questions.
I have personally put a lot of money into backing this project. Am I blind to the potential risks? No, however I want to see this game realised and the best way to do that is to fund it via Kickstarter (and after Kickstarter is over if required).
I can appreciate that certain people will be worried about the game being ready on time and it is certainly worthwhile to ask questions to the developers if their answers can ease the doubts of potential backers.
"We shut down the game a year ago because it 'didn't fit with the long-term goals of our company', but we've decided that, rather than allow a successor to rise out of the ashes after we burned Paragon City to the ground that would make money that should be ours, we're going to re-open [i]City of Heroes[/i]. We didn't keep any of the account information, so all of your characters are gone, and the original developers who worked on the game all have new jobs, so we're hiring a new team of developers for whom the game is just another paycheck and have no personal investment in its goals, and we're going to be changing game play to make it more attractive to Korean players with forced grouping and loot-heavy crafting skills. By the way, we can still shut the game down any time we feel it's not bringing in as much money as we want it to... but we're bringing Paragon City back for all of our loyal customers! Come back to us!"
Ooh, yeah, I can see how this would get [i]all[/i] the supporters of [i]City of Titans[/i] to pull back their pledges and go back to CoH.
Yeah, dont think it will cause loss or many loss of supporters for CoT, and they probably wouldnt even target the old community.
The new devs may be just paycheck collectors or they may have the sam ambitions of the old.
I wouldnt be surprised if they redid it for the Korean market. Sometimes people forget the American game market is not the only gamer market, and I dont think even the larget anymore out there in the world.
Overall pockets of people dont like grind but the usual grind games, even in the US, have large population of gamers.
I think there needs to be a game, anomaly or not, that isnt grind based or pure pvp based, like COX, that gains great success. Whether or not it's backed by corporate marketing or not. If not back by corporate marketing then the players need to do it. I hope CoT or one of the other two games are that game that attain that status.
Now, if a COX private server pop up, that may cause loss of players for CoT.
And what loyal customers? Seems like nothing but pure hatred for them since then. If I was NCSOFT I would consider that set of customers/community a permanent loss and aim for others. No matter what they do, they wont quelch that hate because in many eyes, it wasnt viewed asa business move. It was viewed as something horrible like burning down a city, their game, despite all the others that perished. "Oh those were normal closings. They should of seen it coming." But when it comes to COX, it wasnt supposed to be touched it seemed.
Hell, I still supported City of Heroes even after NCsoft closed down the previous games that I played....
This one is easy. When I do a big project at work, I am it's #1 critic, so I am only extending that courtesy to this project because I care about it. And I am considering the $3,000 pledge level.
Re: Dinma
Reading your post, you can see how project creep and sprawl can be big risk factors, yes?
Regarding NCsoft re-launching City of Heoes
To quote a friend of mine: "I hope they die horribly in a chemical fire"
-Bodai
There is one word that I have repeatedly used in the last year whenever I've encountered someone who has doubt about the success of this project: passion.
This is an extremely passionate community, and we are just about as passionate about making it as you are all to see and play it. It will get done. There will be bumps along the way and the thing that should matter is not that we've encountered bumps but that we continued onwards.
We've had many bumps in the last year and not once has it deterred the continued march forward of this project.
/end ramble
Even if they do, or release CoH2 or some other nonsense, I've already made up my mind to never be a consumer of any of their products, ever, so not a problem. :)
Yeah so they might as well just hold onto it because they probably will make even less money than it was in the end stages. It probably would cost more to restart/ make part two than what COX pulled in last couple of quarters before the announcement. And outside companies probably know this and probably not exactly jumping at the bit to buy it. It's a high risk buy if one is looking to make profit. Thus in a way COX original 2004-2012 version as we know it is probably as dead as door knob.
Now, the spirit can live on, if people are willing to settle for the spirit. And in this case settling may not be a bad thing.
They can do this, but they can never switch back on the trust they betrayed with the players and their former employees.
I suppose they could use the IP to make a PvP-grinder or a pay-to-win phone app. I don't know who in the world would be the market for that.
As to the technical aspects, all the talk of it being impossibly hard to fix the existing system sounds like excuse-making to me. Real SW Engineers undo other people's mistakes every day. It's just a matter of whether you're willing to do the work. Very often the engineers are ready, willing and able but many managers work on the principle that "we don't have the time to do it right, but we do have the time to do it twice."
Get yourself right; the world has enough problems.
well you'd be surprised. COH as is didn't do to well in Asia, a large part of the gaming market where grind like games sell like hot cakes out there. So there is a massive market. COX market was the tiny one overall.
And that small market to me is what made COX special. it was basically one of a kind, and less grind than the usual games. ALso that was it's downfall. The players started to think, they WERE the game market when in reality, grind based, pay to win games make more money in half of a year than COX every made in it's entire last four years of existence.
I think Asia make up about 65-70% of the gaming industry market players. Followed by the US, where grind pvp games and pay to win have a nice sized market stronghold, then followed by South America/Europe. Still in process to trying to re find that chart again.
As a developer, to be honest, I hate working on other peoples failures and mistakes. Nothing worse than poorly documented, poorly written code. From my experience there is a certain point where it is usually more cost effective to toss it out and start from scratch. After 10 years of coding changes I'd guess that CoH was past that point.
On the other hand, would I fix it? That depends on if someone wants to pay me enough.
Anyway, only good things can come from this project. New code, new thinking, forward thinking about how what they do today will effect what can be done tomorrow. I can see it in the way they are thinking about powers and making them more modular. I think there is a lot of thought going into the foundation of this by people that know what they're doing.
What's unclear, and by my estimate unlikely, is whether the superhero theme has any market potential with the grinder fans.
You'd think, given NCSoft's continued success in that market, that if Superheroes would sell, they'd slap floppy boobs on 'em and go.
Get yourself right; the world has enough problems.
No, of course, no one "likes" doing that, but given an appropriate incentive they will (I certainly have).
That to me is the strength of a group like MWM: it attracts people who are passionate about a thing and have a pride in workmanship that you can't just buy on the open market.
Get yourself right; the world has enough problems.
well slappy boobies aint all of it .And to be fair, COX had it's fair share of over sized boobs and under dressed female running around .And lets not even get into the type of ERP that went on in that game. Difference is one is stiff one is more fluid either way unrealistic over sized boobs.
I figure they just wanted to try something new and it just didn't take off as good as they hope and more than likely they probably wont try it again in the fashion they did before. If they do, COX will be COX only in name only and targeted towards the type of game play they had success in.
Bascially they got burnt for taking a risk, a risk many companies hesitate to take and probably further placed Super hero MMO with customization as risky for lawsuits crazy and realistic, and very slim profits. Too risky and now they have COX to prove it too.
The "floppy boobs" refers specifically to the previews of NCSoft's offering last year: the one they tried to tell us we should want to play. I'll look for a link when I have time. It was disturbing and icky in it's unrealism. I could talk all day about boobs, but in CoH they didn't flop.
I don't see how they got "burned". CoH was clearing $2 Million a year. "Please, please don't throw me in that fire patch." They chose to turn that business away. The last few years they threw those profits away on some super-secret project that wasn't CoH2. Again, totally their screw up.
If anyone burned them it was themselves.
Get yourself right; the world has enough problems.
hey I just said they got burnt for taking a risk. I never said it wasn't a risk that they created. And yeah I'm not sure why how or what reason they sinked themselves and the profits of PS with that "secret project. Alas, NCSOFT aint the first company to sink themselves working on something. Roll-Royce did it with a jet engine they was developing and ended up having to sell their car division to Vickers (and eventually ended up under BMW) as that project affected their entire company. I bet if they could go back they probably would not do it again.
yeah yeah flop boobs non flop boob either way it was over done boobs. Too much boob focus in both of those games one just had better "graphics". That is situation of the pot calling the kettle black. One is a pot one is a kettle but both covered in soot.
But yeah 2 million a year isn't much in the MMO business world for a major game maker especially when most of their games within their own stable was pulling in way more than that. I think only GW at the time was pulling in less, but there was a sequel already in the makings and more focused on the audience and type of gamer they were well familiar with.
Now 2 million a year for an indie game maker, that probably would be considered major cheddar but when it's only about 2% of total profits and something was decided to be cut for what ever reason, usually someone on the bottom will go. By pure profit, GW probably would have been it but again if they closed down GW1 they probably would have lost a lot more players and affected GW2 business. COX on the other hand, as many players said, only played COX as no other game fllled their need like COX and thus it didn't affect GW2 much because whether COX was up or not, they didn't play GW2 much. Although I suspect more people played GW2 and COX more than they let on and probably lost those customers too. 2 pennies out of $1 is something I hardly even fret over and many times leave on the store counter and I'm not even rich. Would it be 2 pennies I didn't have before? Of course but 2 pennies is not something I miss. Either way one thing that seems to be overlooked quickly in business is growth and expectations. It's not always about chasing every penny. A large part of it is a product that is profitable to expectations. I suspect that 2 million a year falls way below those expectations. Like 100,000 players to many was enough but if WoW got down to that number people would say that game is dead and more than likely Blizzard probably would have placed it in maintenance mode if not outright shut it down if it hit even a low of 300,000 players, which is more than COX ever had at it's peak.
They made a corporate decision to concentrate on their Asian market, it makes them a lot more than CoX ever did.
Big mistake in my opinion, they basically disenfranchised a hemisphere and goodwill and future playerbases do not grow on trees.
But it's peanuts to them, look at the mess that was Tabula Rasa, Garriott took them to the cleaners.
Not a good company to deal with.
If people won't pay enough to finance its creation, it is not worth creating.
/Segev
Yeah they haven't been a good company to deal with for ages even while COX was running. It came an issue for many only because they shut down COX. Up to then, many were gladly giving money to said company and if COX was still up they still would be giving money to that company.
Well I don't know about the entire hemisphere though. Even many COX players went on to play other NCSOFT games. There is an entire SG equivalent at least in GW2 alone.
Yeah some people are upset but the impact on the scale of an entire hemisphere over a game that barely had 100,000 people about 40,000 didn't put a dime into it playing for free, and another 20,000 got to the point where they didn't have to put a dime into it after playing for so long. I think at most they may have killed the good will of those 100,000 players. Many other players, just as those 100,000 continued to play COX after NCOSFT shut down at least 4 games and the entire Garriot thing and didn't give a hoot, other players are still in that same mindset. "Well it aint my game."
And goodwill is never a big part of it. I pay for the month, they supply a month. they don't supply I don't pay. Business. Unfortunately in business goodwill don't pay the bills. And yeah while many COX players through out it tenure was busy running players away, they helped the downfall. Instead they should have been trying to get everyone they come across to play the game. Instead, I don't think I could go through a day without seeing someone tell someone else, "If you don't like it just leave." And guess what, many did. and look at us now. Part of the low income of COX wasn't NCSOFT fault. It was the players that ran folks off fault and also the folks that stood by and said nothing to those people fault. But they didn't want to say anything because it's their buddy doing the trolling but let someone fire back at ttheir buddy, oh it's ww3 and they come out the wood work to run the person off. But what happened have happened and hopefully the ordeal opened the eyes a bit more. No more telling people to leave because they think differently, and if the company don't market it, the players will, just as vigorously as they went on this saveCOX campaign, and lastly put money into the game to ensure success and stop settling for a mere 2 million a year.
Goodwill is a two way street when it applies. There should have been more good will among each other especially in the end. Should have been more goodwill among the players. Instead of trying to spend as less as possible for as much game as possible should have spent more. 2 million a year is not very successful for a game with 100,000 people at all. Hell. look, at the KS, about 3,000 people coughed up 400,000 odd in less than a month. With that much dedication there should have been no reason for COX to been making so little a year. And numbers again, next time you see someone telling someone they dotn agree with to leave, I would implore you to tell the person trying to kick someone out, "hey, every person count. Less people less money. Less money more chance of shut down. Stop being part of the problem." They don't have to agree or like each other but at least no one should be told to leave because they disagree or have different opinions because that person may just leave. And not only that other people that is watching sees this and think they are not wanted either especially if they agree with the person that is told to leave. Thus within that day that could be 10-20 people deciding the community is for the birds and leave. 20 a day don't sound like much but that is $106,000 less that could have been made or 5% of that two million. I don't think any single person's opinion is worth 100,000 and thus have no right to tell anyone to leave a game they paid for just as they did. But that was one of the most common statements made by people who didn't agree with someone thus they had a hand in people leaving and had a hand in COX making a mere 2 million a year when it should and could of been making more. And like any product not making up to expected profits, they finally got what they wanted. COX got closed down and everyone that didn't agree with them didn't have a game to play. Except they forgot the part that they didn't have a game to play either. So when the game gets going, hopefully this iteration of the community is a bit more open minded and not quick to tell people to leave if they don't like something to don't agree with popular opinion. I think this time already the support will be there a lot better than for COX and wont get lax with the funds, and will cherish the game more and do their part in getting the word out even if MWM for some strange reason don't. Second chances, man. Second chances. Now it's up to us. While 4,000 people supporters is nice, 4,000 probably wont make good of a game that raises eyebrows. Got to get the word out even that means, sucking down the pride and apologizing to those that been told to leave or told their opinion didn't matter in the old COX world. Every person is important.
But yeah I think they seem to realigning and focusing more on their more profitable markets of Asia and trying to break into the China market.
This is exactly why I'm here and not at some major publisher's website. When your decision makers are such a bunch of effete snobs that $2 Million a year doesn't seem like much profit to them, there's little chance they'll treat me like a valued customer. I'd rather do business with someone who is grateful to be profitable at all.
Get yourself right; the world has enough problems.
Ah yes. That is the good thing about non major publishers. Man, if they were making two million a year? They would be popping champagne bottles of joy. To major corporation, 2 million isn't worth a yacht that the CEO wants to buy. And of course bigger the corporation the more each person is a number and the customer becomes less important and more the expected returns of said products and customers are merely a side effect of that. Sometimes it's they want 10 million a year and 500,000 customers or nothing at all and basically not even worrying about those 100,000 that been loyal all this time.
Rule number one in big business loyalty only goes as far as the wallet is worth going.
How do they get away with it? Easy because for every customer they toss out, hundreds more are trying to get in. Like BoA I don't think I seen too many people have something nice to say about BoA yet they are the most used, most profitable bank in the states and there are tons of other banks that offer better deals and bank every where options without all the fees but smaller. They get ignored.
EA, man some stuff they do would make NCSOFT blush. If they had COX I think they would have closed it long time ago as soon as it started slipping and probably would have closed it even if COX was making 5 million a quarter and or as soon as the population fell below 150,000 people. Yet they are one of the most well known highest grossing game companies out there .People stand out in the cold for hours just to get their hands on their new releases.
Yet many indie game companies struggle to keep their servers on and know everyone by name.
Isnt it about time we stop rewarding bad behavior? And not only stop rewarding bad behavior but greatly reward good behavior in companies. Sure they may be still be on top in the case of Disney, EA and BoA. But I think when people start seeing especially indie games can be profitable and successful, and not lose sight of customers in gaining more success, then more people will go to it and realize even indie are just as stable but better customer service. Every company that is huge now, even Walmart (although rumor is Walmart really lost sight when Sam died) was once a mom and pop store, started off small, "yeah we are better than the current corporations and we vow to treat our customers right." Yet when they ended up big, they forgot all about the customers and ended up just as bad as the ones they rallied against when they were small.
Success isn't the issue. An indie can strive to make big money beyond even 2 million a year but the main thing they must remember is not forget about the customers and the ones that got them to that point.
Like especially with games, I understand they must make profit and a certain profit to keep the stock holders happy. And yeah sorry stock holders in lot of cases come first. Many put in more than most players put in in 8 years combined and it would make sense to not want to lose them if they can help it. But I wish that the rules are laid out. Like "Hey, we appreciate you, the customers, but if we don't rake in 3 million a year, we will have to shut down." That way players can make a choice. They can start spending to reach that goal or let it sink.
If EA had it, then even if you got the F2P download you'd have to buy and put in a one-time online pass. They'd also bastardize the game by sending all but a few devs to go work on some other game and hire a few new guys who had NO CLUE how it worked to help the remaining ones.. cranking out not the TFs or Comic Arcs we loved, but a buggy mess of terrible voice acting, bad writing, and few if any fixes, laughing their asses off as money comes in and simply saying "Eh. They'll buy it anyway. They love this game. And why have good expectations for content? It's just a Superhero MMO.. not like there's anything worthwhile in that. Bunch of pasty naive nerds. OOO.. let's make it pay2win too.. and jack the prices up on things"
..sorry.. I have this burning hate of EA after what they did to Dragon Age and Ultima..
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
Indeed.
Reply to Bodai 44,
The MWM project team will need to manage each expansion as related projects or sub-projects with integration in mind, and scope creep can be a challenge especially when managing stakeholder expectations. The MWM team likely computed positive net present values to green-light these additional projects for a decent return on investment. That all said, the team will still need to manage any risks associated with the expansions.
First, I'd like to say that I am thrilled to see the kickstarter do as well as it's doing. It's already surpassed my expectations by a good measure. However, I'm concerned about the low number of pledges - not the quality of them. I realize that a good number of people are not wanting to pledge because the launch day is sooooo far away. But, I'm still concerned about the lack of backers. I would have thought, with all the dramatic protests, etc, that we would have found 10's of thousands supporters for this. Surely I'm not the only one to be concerned about this.
Those who have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing. - John Cleese
Well when it's just voices and ideas being thrown around, it's easy to get on board, throw around some support, sign a petition here and there. But the kicker is when money is involved.
I think there would be more. When money is involved, they look and wait for that threshold. Once they see what they like when the time come they'll give. Right now, a lot of stuff is in concept stage, not much guaranteed as far as how the game will work, it's not quite liquid, but not quite clay ready to be molded yet. Which is ok, before someone jumps to conclusions, it's part of the process. In these times, some people are not too keen on taking risks, especially with money. And many breathe easy knowing the funding goal is reached thus many think whether they give or not now wouldn't even matter. Thus they will wait until they see something that compels them or simply wait until to project is more complete.
I don't think it's too big of a concern, but a concern nonetheless. If looking for big company funding to take care of the rest, yeah the low number may not enthuse them enough to say "there is a market" Because while many supporters gave a few hundred or more, more than likely they wont be able to do that often. It do show, that low number of people really want this thing to work. In the short run, yeah that low number will do. In the long run... Well I think business will pick up once things become more solid as time go on.
Yeah it will be a long wait, but as I said, with it fully funded some simply said, well no point in taking the risk now since it's funded and there is great chance it will be completed anyways and will be able to enjoy the game whether they put in now or simply wait to put it towards a few months worth of subscription. The end result will be the same.
The trick now for more numbers, have to persuade them, but so far I think they have been doing regular job with the update tidbits and put out what they can at the moment and stuff isn't solid yet and many questions probably cant be answered in a solid manner which again at this point is probably normal due to the early stage of things. But like everything it has it's ups and downs. Especially after what happened with the COX fiasco, people (some) are looking for concrete re-assurance of what will be in the game which seems that it's too early for that at this moment. If they keep with the updates, I think more will come.
And probably would do some good to remind the other backers there to be a bit more...calm about posted inquiries. Some seem to think any question is a threat or if someone say they didn't like such and such about COX and wish the game improved on this and that. It's viewed as an attack. That make it look like it's fan boy and can be off putting to people that may want to donate but instead don't because they think those people will and or are dominating the type of people that will be in the game. Just a friendly reminder to be friendly. Part of attracting a crowd also lay in the hands of the community, sometimes more than they realize. Because on kick starter there are more than just COX players out there and not all of them thought COX to be the greatest game in the world but have some good suggestions to bring to the table, if given the chance without being attacked at every turn for not thinking COX was the god's gift to the game world.
I'm still cognizant that this is a risk: I may be coughing up $50 to a bunch of ex-CoH Players who for all I know is sticking it in their ears and blowing raspberries at us. But I've spent more on a Friday night at home while I was bored on the Paragon Market. It's the same risk, since I got to play with/keep none of what I spent in CoH. If it happens twice, I can find a new hobby.
But I have faith that it won't be that way.
I should get out of this hobby... its happened to me 6 times so far
I have one word to answer the OP and all of the questions posted since: Hope. I'm old-fashioned and I grew up in a time and place where sometimes hope is all you had. Hope and misery. We went crazy with worry. I'm STILL crazy with worry and those days are far behind me. You can say a lot about the bad in people's lives but I think the worst thing is a lack of hope. Hope is the belief that things will get better if you just hang on long enough.
But Hope alone is not enough. People through the ages have starved to death praying for deliverance. They have been killed while praying for peace. Hope will get you to the next step and that is action. You have to DO something...or at least TRY to do something. We always fail at the things we don't try. Our whole history as a race is filled with successes because many more unrecorded people tried first and failed.
I support this project because I have hope. I have hope that a few (if 3000 can be called few) dedicated people with hope can make something incredible happen. I have hope that we can do something that WE want...create something that WE want to exist. Imagine what everyone will think if we do this. WHEN we do this. The whole gaming world heard about CoH's fiery demise...the petitions and Change.org and the rest saw to that. Now what will they think when CoT literally rises from the ashes of CoH because WE wanted it to? They may begin to believe that the world can be changed by a few dedicated people who believe...who have Hope.
Sorry...didn't mean to preach. I get carried away sometimes.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
Preach on!!
You keep preaching. Hope is indeed a wonderful thing. Worry is nothing more than a lack of appreciation of God's power (or whatever supreme being you put your faith in - whether it be Buddha or yourself or your pet sloth).
Those who have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing. - John Cleese
Can I get an A-MEN?
CoH Player who is looking forward to moving to a new city...
I support this project because I have hope...